Update on Cavalry Arms: Outrageous


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strat81
May 2, 2008, 10:47 AM
http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=705115

Executive summary:
All of the seized inventory (including customer guns) has been listed in the Wall Street Journal in a legal notice involving asset forfeiture. The link includes a scan of the ad that was placed and lists tons of guns - even an AR15.com SEBR (special edition black rifle).

For those who don't know, Cavalry Arms of Arizona, makers of candy-colored AR-15 lowers and furniture (among other things), were victims of an ATF raid and seizure back in February. No one has been arrested, charged, or imprisoned. The ATF cleaned them out of almost everything.

There's plenty of chest thumping over at Arfcom, and rightfully so. What can we do to get this sorted out? Who can we call? What should we say? The whole situation makes me want to puke. :cuss: :(

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.cheese.
May 2, 2008, 10:52 AM
that's outrageous

how can the BATFE legally do things this way? No charges, no trial, just confiscation, public listing, and then I assume disposal.

Henry Bowman
May 2, 2008, 10:53 AM
Already under discussion here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=360546

strat81
May 2, 2008, 11:01 AM
See what I get for searching for "Cavalry"? :)

lonegunman
May 2, 2008, 12:11 PM
I had to give a receiver back to the ATF a few years ago. The company that built it was ran by an idiot and he had not complied with the letter of the law. So, after an inspection the ATF shut him down and seized all of his product.

If I wanted to keep my receiver I had to contest the process in "ATF court". I would not get a real judge or even a chance at a reasonable hearing. I had to argue to an ATF flunky that they were wrong, then I could go to court to fight them for deciding in their favor.

I had to post a 500 dollar bond or 10% of the value whichever is greater to go through this process, hire a lawyer and start grinding through the legal system.

Here is the best part. I had to sign a letter saying I would pay the governments costs if I lost. So if I lost in court, I could be on the hook for millions of dollars. All for one gun.

Good bye gun. This is one of many government agencies that operates outside of the law as far as I can tell. They have no oversight and there is almost nothing you can do to correct behavior. I was not interested in getting on their bad side for a 500 dollar part.

oneshooter
May 2, 2008, 07:21 PM
All of the seized inventory (including customer guns)

How could they, despite being a "goverment agency" sell off that which is NOT owned by the business? Isn't that theft?









Oh yea, I forgot. They are above the laws of us mere mortals, THEY ARE our GOVERMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I still say it's theft.






Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

kingpin008
May 2, 2008, 07:44 PM
That's rather puzzling to me too - if the guns are owned by private citizens, with no connection to Cavalry (except that they're customers) how in the world is the confiscation and eventual sale of their private property legal? Is there some loophole, or justification that I don't know about, or is it simply a case of "We're the Feds, we can do what we want" as Oneshooter said?

rickomatic
May 2, 2008, 09:34 PM
If a certain senator from Arizona is really serious about earning his 2nd Amendment bona fides, he needs to step up to the plate on this outrage perpetrated by the Federal government in the state he represents.
Somehow....I doubt he'll do it. :mad:

lamazza
May 2, 2008, 09:52 PM
What were the charges? Anybody know?

kingpin008
May 2, 2008, 10:00 PM
That's the interesting part - they haven't been charged with a damn thing. Figure that one out.

Gunnerpalace
May 2, 2008, 10:02 PM
Found this on link ARFCOM its intersesting.


http://freedomsight.net/?p=2467

Treo
May 2, 2008, 10:27 PM
a couple of things I don't understand the ATF who doesn't want us to have these guns, is going to sell them to the general public?

And number 2 can anything realistically be done to stop it?

SaxonPig
May 3, 2008, 12:12 AM
Doesn't anyone recall that case about 20 years ago where a grain storage business went under and the bank seized the corn in the silos even though it belonged to a third party? The farmer went and took his corn from the locked silos and was convicted of theft.

If a business goes bankrupt while holding your property you lose your stuff.

I know it makes no sense. But it's the law, made up by lawyers, so of course it's stupid and ridiculous.

rmt22
May 3, 2008, 11:37 AM
by posting the notice you are given opportunity to contest action.

Also you can always file suit in federal ct (but of course that takes money and lawyers). A federal district judge can slap the ATF right down.

Old Fuff
May 3, 2008, 12:17 PM
Also you can always file suit in federal ct (but of course that takes money and lawyers). A federal district judge can slap the ATF right down.

Yup, and the BATF&E knows that these costs can drive the company into bankruptcy - which is probably they're intent.

While a judge can give the agency a slap it's not likely to happen, and any award will be paid for by the taxpayers. BATF&E won't feel a thing.

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