Oh how frustrating the anti-gun people can be!


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Golden Hound
May 2, 2008, 06:33 PM
Last week I wrote this letter to the editor of the local newspaper, which was published today:

Barack Obama is an enemy of our second amendment rights. As a senator, he sought to ban the sale of all semi-automatic weapons in the state of Illinois. He is in favor of the re-institution of the notorious Federal Assault Weapons ban, which uses arbitrary characteristics such as folding stocks and pistol grips to designate said “assault weapons” – distinctions which are meant to deceive those who do not understand firearms with “scary” words. These so-called assault weapons are used in a tiny proportion of all gun crimes. Furthermore, Obama supports the banning of concealed handguns. In other words, he wants law-abiding citizens to be unable to carry a concealed handgun for self-defense, while criminals who have no regard for the laws whatsoever will go on committing crimes. Lawfully-owned, concealed handguns account for a miniscule percentage of gun crimes. Criminals typically don't bother applying for a carry permit. Obama’s position on guns is the typical ignorant far-left party line. Tell us, Barack, does your opposition to concealed handguns also apply to your bodyguards and security details? Wait, I already know the answer. What a hypocrite! No gun owner should even consider voting for this man.

Today I received a Facebook message from a friend of mine who had read my letter:

I'm afraid you may have stretched the truth a bit regarding Obama's actual position re: guns. From the official website:

"As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation."


Wow. You really got my point, didn't you? Because professors from the academic world are typically very knowledgeable about guns and will stand up for the second amendment, right? And candidates' official websites are always 100 percent full of honest truth, right? And "reasonable and commonsense regulation" doesn't mean "whatever the hell Obama and his anti-gun goons want to do," right, because "reasonable" and "commonsense" are very concrete, specific terms that could never possibly be used ambiguously and deceptively, right? And hunting and target shooting are the ONLY POSSIBLE USES FOR GUNS, RIGHT? A situation would never, could never, and will never possibly arise where you need to use a gun for something other than hunting or target shooting. Especially not in Washington, D.C.

This guy wants to strip us of our rights to defend ourselves, while he hides behind armed bodyguards. I sent this fellow a response reiterating basically what I just wrote, but of course, he didn't write back to me.

Because when confronted by facts, people who don't know what they're talking about generally prefer to pretend the conversation never happened instead of admit that they're wrong.

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FTA84
May 2, 2008, 06:40 PM
Are you kidding me? Politicians always do what they say! You cannot go around spouting falsehoods just for votes, this is America!

Oh wait....

Sage of Seattle
May 2, 2008, 06:42 PM
Good post, Golden Hound and welcome to THR.

Unfortunately, this thread seems to me to be a bit too much politics and too little guns, so IBTL...

Golden Hound
May 2, 2008, 07:03 PM
What's IBTL?

Rachen
May 2, 2008, 07:06 PM
What's IBTL?

In Before The Lock

Golden Hound
May 2, 2008, 07:15 PM
Is there another section of the forum that this thread could be moved to that would be more appropriate? I apologize if I am off-topic here.

Picard
May 2, 2008, 07:29 PM
Wow, whoever replied hasn't thought the issue through. Who's to say that we don't already have common sense regulation. Common sense is just a codeword for continuous, slow, step by step attacks at gun owners, always saying that the next step to take is common sense. It is an arbitrary ground that can never be reached.

What gun control advocates want to do is regulate away personal responsibility. When we allow them to take away our responsibility, we allow them to control us.

They want to stop crime before it happens. This is a poor philosophy. How about ridding crime by enforcing penalties for committing them? Crimes are acts that are harmful to society. We shouldn't be afraid of carrying concealed weapons, because that in itself isn't harmful. We should be afraid of committing harmful acts with them, which is where the punishment should lie, not in trying to prevent the act. In doing that, we disregard any beneficial aspect of carrying concealed weapons. I'm mostly speaking from an Illinois point of view since we still do not have any concealed carry laws. I've seen armored truck drivers deliver their money, openly carrying a gun on their hip. Does the government want to tell us that my life is worth less than the $10,000 that guy has in his moneybag?

Golden Hound
May 2, 2008, 07:35 PM
The funny thing is, it's SO OBVIOUS that "common sense" supports the legality of concealed carry. Lawfully owned concealed handguns account for almost NO gun crimes. Why? Because criminals don't bother applying for a permit! This is the most common of common sense.

Tommygunn
May 2, 2008, 07:37 PM
Whoever did write that reply, it was lifted almnost verbatum from an Obama policy point on guns the MSM was quoting a few weeks back.
Is it any surprise, though, that Obama doesn't "get it" about guns and the second amendment? He is one of the most leftwing liberals in the Senate. Certainly you didn't expect him to be an N.R.A. member -- or a member of G.O.A., did you?

bogie
May 2, 2008, 07:43 PM
I'm guessing that at least two folks are missing a vital point somewhere...

IBTL^2

John-Melb
May 2, 2008, 07:58 PM
"As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation."

BULLTISCH!

Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
*Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
* Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of
firearms.
* Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with
firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test
Jul 2, 1998

It's proponents often refer to Australian gun laws as "reasonable and commonsense regulation."

Rachen
May 2, 2008, 08:41 PM
Is there another section of the forum that this thread could be moved to that would be more appropriate? I apologize if I am off-topic here.

Welcome to THR Golden Hound.:D Actually, this topic is about as off-topic as discussing Harley Davidsons on a motorcycle forum:) On General Gun Discussions, we talk about a variety of subjects, including our experiences in talking and debating with antis. And of course, we have the Mall Ninja threads available too, if you want a REALLY good laugh! So feel free to discuss antis here.

The reason why we have new rules on THR is because almost all of the politically related conversations started here eventually turns into rants and bellows and senseless cussing. THR is an open forum and no doubt the antis come here looking for ammunition to shoot at us during the everlasting fight for our liberties. When we behave irrationally, it hurts us.

We have APS for all political debates and discussions. The link is in the right hand corner of your screen.

Snapping Twig
May 3, 2008, 01:29 AM
Well... for one, Barak wasn't a Constitutional ANYTHING, let alone a professor thereof.

Lying sack of dirty political leftist crap is nothing more than a marxist.

Here's a little info on the good Senator from Illinois:

1.) The March on Selma Got Me Born - LIAR, your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.

2.) My Father Was a Goat Herder - LIAR, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3.) My Father Was a Proud Freedom Fighter - LIAR, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties to African Freedom - LIAR, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in decades.

5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - LIAR, she does her daily Salat Prayers (the Obligatory Prayer of the Muslim) at 5am according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6.) My Name is African Swahili - LIAR, your name is Arabic and Barak (from which Barack came) means "blessed" in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.

7.) I Never Practiced Islam - LIAR, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.

8.) My School in Indonesia Was Christian - LIAR, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book).

9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - LIAR, not one teacher says you could speak the language.

10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign Experience - LIAR, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn't even speak the language.

11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - LIAR, except for Africa and the Middle East, you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.

12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - LIAR, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine.

13.) An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - LIAR, Ebony Magazine has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook on Life - LIAR, Life Magazine has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

15.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In 2008 - LIAR, despite saying, live on TV after your election to the U.S. Senate in November 2004, that you would not have enough experience by then to do so.


16.) 'Present Votes' (merely saying "Present" effectively sidestepping having to vote "For" or "Against" a legislative bill) Are Common In Illinois - LIAR, they are not common in the Illinois State Senate, however you voted that way nearly 130 times, 17.) Oops, I Misvoted - LIAR, only when caught by church groups and Democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - LIAR, you didn't write it, introduce it, change it, or create it.

21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard to Pass - LIAR, it took just 14 days from start to finish.

22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - LIAR, your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear Donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.

23.) I Have Released My State Voting Records - LIAR, as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) I took on the Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - LIAR, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - LIAR, your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

26.) I Have Been a Bold Leader in Illinois - LIAR, even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - LIAR, they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.

28.) "No One Contacted Canada about NAFTA" - LIAR, the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign staff had with them.

29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - LIAR, you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction of Israel.

30.) I Am Not Acting As President Yet - LIAR, a dead terrorist in the FARC (the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia), was found with a letter stating how you and he were working together on getting FARC recognized officially.

31.) I Didn't Run Ads In Florida - LIAR, you allowed national ads to run 8-12 times per day for two weeks - and you still lost.

32.) I Won Michigan - LIAR, no you didn't.

33.) I won Nevada - LIAR, no you did not.

34.) I Want All Votes to Count - LIAR; you said "let the delegates decide."

35.) I Want Americans to Decide the Democratic Presidential Candidate - LIAR, you prefer caucuses that force a very limited public vote, that operate only during a very small windows of time.

36.) I passed 900 Bills while in the State Senate - LIAR, you passed 26, most of which you didn’t write yourself.

37.) My Campaign Was Extorted by a Friend - LIAR, that friend is threatening to sue if you do not stop saying this. Obama has stopped saying this.

38.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - LIAR, you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you in the Illinois State Senate race.

39.) I Don't Take PAC Money - LIAR, you take loads of it.

40.) I Don't Have Lobbyists - LIAR, you have over 47 lobbyists, and counting.

41.) My Campaign Had Nothing to Do With The 1984 Ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3G-lMZxjo) -LIAR, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.

42.) My Campaign Never Took over my 'MySpace' - LIAR, Tom, who started MySpace issued a warning about this advertising to 'MySpace' clients.

43.) I Inspire People with My Words - LIAR, you inspire people with other people's words.

44.) I Have Passed Bills in the U.S. Senate - LIAR, you have passed A BILL in the U.S. Senate - for Africa, which shows YOUR priorities.

45.) I Have Always Been against Iraq - LIAR, you weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time. You also seem to be stepping back from your mandatory military departure date - AGAIN.

46.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - LIAR, your plan leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don't have to buy it.

47.) I Only Found Out About My Investment Conflicts Via Mail - LIAR, both companies you site as having sent you letters about this conflict have no record of any such letter ever being created or sent.

48.) I Am As Patriotic as Anyone - LIAR, you won't wear a flag pin and you don't put your hand over your heart during the Anthem.

49.) My Wife Didn't Mean What She Said about Pride in our Country - LIAR, your wife's words follows lock-step in the vein of Rev. Wright and Louis Farrahkan, in relation to their contempt and hatred of America.

50.) Wal-Mart is a Company I Wouldn't Support - LIAR, your wife was just reelected to the board of the Illinois food-processing company Treehouse, from which she has received nearly a quarter of a million dollars from in the way of salary. Treehouse Foods largest customer for the pickles and peppers produced is the retail giant Wal-Mart.

RNB65
May 3, 2008, 01:40 AM
Please reply to your friend and ask him if he really believes that James Madison had hunters and target shooters in mind when he wrote the 2nd Amendment.

Anyone who makes the "I will protect the rights of hunters" argument is, by default, failing to uphold the Constitution. The 2A has NOTHING to do with hunting or target shooting.
-

Intune
May 3, 2008, 07:58 AM
Welcome to The High Road Golden Hound! Great folks here & mostly good info/discussions. However, as you can see, political/gun discussions usually turn into political/political arguments with everyone talking past each other. Don't worry about a thread getting locked. When you start getting PM's from Mods on a daily basis you're on the right track! :evil:

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