SF Bay Area CCW


PDA






Guy B. Meredith
May 3, 2008, 12:23 AM
I know that our local sheriff in Contra Costa County is not handing out concealed carry permits, but was curious as to how to apply for one. A quick perusal of the Sheriff's web site has no information on how to apply.

Does anyone here know the procedure for CCW in CCC?

By the way, the thought that led me to look is curiosity about the firearms range test. Still haven't found that information either.

If you enjoyed reading about "SF Bay Area CCW" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Birukun
May 3, 2008, 12:48 AM
You must read Calguns.net and then CaliforniaConcealedCarry.com. Both sites have lots of info that is important to every California gun owner.

Bill in SD

Standing Wolf
May 3, 2008, 03:57 AM
A quick perusal of the Sheriff's web site has no information on how to apply.


If you've contributed enough money to the sheriff's campaign, he'll chat about it with you personally.

Jdude
May 3, 2008, 07:10 AM
If you've contributed enough money to the sheriff's campaign, he'll chat about it with you personally.
He'll probably toss you a ccw as a courtesy too. :mad:

bruss01
May 3, 2008, 12:44 PM
The only advice I can offer is to pray to St. Happenin'...

Oh, and if you're really serious, make a contribution to the Sherriff's re-election fund, in the amount of about $10,000 - $15,000... that ought to at least get the issue on the table for discussion.

Sorry, but that's how CCW "may issue" works in most of CA, in the Bay Area especially.

TAB
May 3, 2008, 12:57 PM
sounds alot like sac county... kind of funny how the friend/ campign contributors, all got thiers, even ones that were prohibitated by law...

PressCheck
May 3, 2008, 03:38 PM
If you've contributed enough money to the sheriff's campaign, he'll chat about it with you personally.


That's Total BS!

The Range test is very easy. Four hours in the class room, and 3 stages of 6 rounds each at a B27 target from 5, 7, and 10 yards. IMHO the test is way too easy.

You can call the Sheriff's Dept in Martinez and request an application.

Good Luck!

Guy B. Meredith
May 3, 2008, 03:45 PM
Actually I was more interested in the range requirements than applying for a CCW. I just found a course of fire at Chabot and wonder whether that is the required course of fire for CCC.

I had thought that the Sheriff's web site would include the range requirements with info on applying for CCW, but instead found nothing which raised my curiosity up one more notch.

I do not intend to get a CCW right now as I don't meet the needs requirement. If I decide to go back to school or if the local homicides increase I might reconsider. :rolleyes:

Prince Yamato
May 3, 2008, 04:01 PM
Step 1: wait for Heller to be ruled in our favor

Step 2: apply for permit

Step 3: go to supreme court

Step 4: get permit

Gunnerpalace
May 3, 2008, 06:46 PM
He'll probably toss you a ccw as a courtesy too

In One County the going "contribution" was $25,000.00+.

Birukun
May 3, 2008, 08:17 PM
Errr.... that is incorrect. Orange County is in the top ten of 'issuing counties' and there are many folks who have a CCW there that made no contributions to the Sheriff.

calccw.com
CaliforniaConcealedCarry.com
Calguns.net

Lots of FACTUAL info about CCW in California.

Gunnerpalace
May 3, 2008, 08:21 PM
So Who was the Sheriff out there that got busted for doing that, I must be thinking of some other county, anyone?

TAB
May 3, 2008, 11:34 PM
it was sacramento county...

bruss01
May 4, 2008, 12:02 PM
If you've contributed enough money to the sheriff's campaign, he'll chat about it with you personally.


That's Total BS!

The Range test is very easy. Four hours in the class room, and 3 stages of 6 rounds each at a B27 target from 5, 7, and 10 yards. IMHO the test is way too easy.

You can call the Sheriff's Dept in Martinez and request an application.

Good Luck!


No one said you couldn't get an application. No one said you couldn't take the range test. But that doesn't mean your permit request will be granted.

Name me one common, ordinary everyday citizen who isn't
a: A substantial campaign contributor
b: A personal friend of the sherrif, relative of sherrif, friend of a relative of the sherrif, relative of a friend of the sherrif...
c: Documented as being stalked, threatened or otherwise in a huge amount of personal danger, DOCUMENTED.

who has applied for and been granted a ccw permit in Contra Costa county.

You can't. No common ordinary everyday citizen who wants a ccw "just because" or for "personal protection" is likely to be granted a ccw permit. This is true for many, though not all, California counties. Sorry, that's just a fact of life in the "may issue" way of things. They may have to give you an application form to fill out. They may have to allow you to take the test. But they are not required to approve your request, and unless some very exceptional circumstances apply, they WON'T approve your request. We are talking about Contra Costa county, not Orange county or Kern county or some other ccw "friendly" county. That's why I say pray to St. Happenin', cuz this ain't happenin'.

Gunnerpalace
May 4, 2008, 01:24 PM
Documented as being stalked, threatened or otherwise in a huge amount of personal danger, DOCUMENTED

There have been instances where that has not been enough.

Creeping Incrementalism
May 4, 2008, 09:55 PM
If you've contributed enough money to the sheriff's campaign, he'll chat about it with you personally.
That's Total BS!

No, it is essentially correct, and I am surprised anyone with knowledge would call it "total BS." During that home invasion shootout in Alamo a few years back, it was reported that the homeowner had a CCW from Rupf, and said it was given as sort of a "thank you" to big contributors of a Sheriff's Dept. charity. I didn't hear anything about the department disputing the fact.

For more info go to http://www.equalccw.com/, by Jim March, a member here. As a note to the original poster, a PDF copy of the state CCW application is available at this site.

Yellowfin
May 6, 2008, 01:47 AM
Join Californians for Concealed Carry Rights and voice your thoughts on the matter, and join the effort to bring to light the guilty parties who need to be removed.

PressCheck
May 6, 2008, 01:47 PM
[QUOTE][No, it is essentially correct, and I am surprised anyone with knowledge would call it "total BS." During that home invasion shootout in Alamo a few years back, it was reported that the homeowner had a CCW from Rupf, and said it was given as sort of a "thank you" to big contributors of a Sheriff's Dept. charity. I didn't hear anything about the department disputing the fact.

For more info go to http://www.equalccw.com/, by Jim March, a member here. As a note to the original poster, a PDF copy of the state CCW application is available at this site./QUOTE]

You have NO idea what your talking about!

1.That Home Invasion happened at 6:15pm on January 4, 2000.

2. He was a wealthy Trauma Surgeon that gave away lots of money.

3. He only gave Sheriff's Charities $500.

4. He had total "Just Cause" for receiving the license.

5. The only favor he "may" have received was that he had more than two firarms on his CCW; many do.

How do I know all this? He was my best friend, and I was on scene 20 minutes after the incident.

jfh
May 6, 2008, 02:08 PM
Well, regardless of the dispute about what is considered an appropriate amount of contribution to the Sheriff's Charities--You guys have all heard the old joke about the Texan and the barfly, haven't you?

He says: "Would you sleep with me tonight for a million dollars, honey?"

She says: "Where's your room?"

He says: "How about for a hundred bucks?"

She says: "Of course not! What do you think I am, a whore?"

He says: "We've already established that. Now we're just haggling about price."

Jim H.

PressCheck
May 6, 2008, 02:18 PM
[QUOTE][Well, regardless of the dispute about what is considered an appropriate amount of contribution to the Sheriff's Charities--You guys have all heard the old joke about the Texan and the barfly, haven't you?

He says: "Would you sleep with me tonight for a million dollars, honey?"

She says: "Where's your room?"

He says: "How about for a hundred bucks?"

She says: "Of course not! What do you think I am, a whore?"

He says: "We've already established that. Now we're just haggling about price."

Jim H.
/QUOTE]

A great old joke, but it doesn't apply in this case. I know how much he gave away over the years.

Birukun
May 6, 2008, 02:35 PM
Your friend was in the minority then - Sheriff Rupf's record speaks for itself.

jfh
May 6, 2008, 02:43 PM
PressCheck: It may well not apply to your friend, I agree. But, that point doesn't make it logically inconsistent that contributing to the Sheriff's Charities also greases the skids.

Keep in mind that threads such as these are less about the anecdotal and more about the social factors as perceived by those of us outside that hell-hole.

Jim H.

QuarterBoreGunner
May 6, 2008, 05:51 PM
Guy, here's a cut-n-paste from my post over at calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=80923&highlight=santa+clara+sheriff+range+qualification) when I requal'd for my CCW. Mine is issued by the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office but is recognized by San Francisco where I live.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I thought it might be interesting for people to know what the exact procedure for re-applying and re-qualifying for a CCW via the Santa Clara Sheriff's Office is.

NOTE: My intention is for this to just be a little insight into what is otherwise a mysterious and unknown process for most Californian's. I don't want to get into *how exactly* I qualified for a CCW, nor do I want to go into my justification statement. Suffice to say that my process for the original issuance was NOT the approved process and let's just let it go at that.

This is my fifth time through the system; the standard license being good for two years.

Expiration date on my past license was 12-08-07, so right around early October I phoned up the Sheriff Administration office and talked to Pat in admin, she confirmed my mailing address hadn't changed and said she'd mail me off the form that day. She also informed me that the next range qualification day was Friday, November 9th; I said that was fine and she put me on the qualification list for that day.

Two days later a very official looking envelope from the Sheriff's Office arrived with my re-application form inside. Now the initial application process is pretty hairy and they ask a lot of questions, some of which require extensive written answers, but the subsequent application form is a single double sided page. The front is nine questions, yes or no, with room for elaboration, regarding basically your current legal status: Nope, I haven't become a criminal. Nope, still no restraining orders, etc.

The back of the form is where you write out your justification statement. My justification wording hasn't changed in eight years and so I simply copied, word for word, from my very first application back in 1999. Made copies of everything and mailed it off to the Sheriff's Administration.

Thursday, November 9th rolls around. Check in at the Sheriff's range is 0900 sharp. They do not admit you late; you must arrange to make the next available range day if you're late for the class. (I always figured that qualifying for your CCW was pretty important and endeavored to arrive early. The SO's rangemaster is serious about this. If you're late, he will not let you qual that day.)

The Sheriff's range is located in South San Jose, just north of the Santa Clara Shooting Field Sports facility and it is an outstanding training site. They have three outdoor ranges raging in length from 30 yards out to 75 yards, suitable for handgun, rifle, shotgun and sub-machinegun. There is also an onsite 'shoot house' and a 300 yard precision rifle range. In fact the Santa Clara SO's host the 'Best in the West' SWAT/SERT competition every September and I've had the privilege to attend as a vendor representative several times. The best description of the 2 day event is a BBQ and gun show in a combat zone. The SO's has a couple of big grills going with all sorts of tasty animals being cooked. There's a vendor tent for all types of LEO hardware, guns and gear. And there's the periodic burst of machine gun fire from the ranges. Good times.

The class this time around numbered about a dozen (the largest class I've been in so far) and consisted of a retired deputy (they have to range qualify too), a superior court judge and his wife, a lawyer or two, a rancher from the south valley, a retired Army Colonel,
a jeweler, a few I couldn't identify and yours truly. The retired Army Colonel is an old customer of mine when I was still in the business, so I was able to catch up with him which was nice. He's a Vietnam Vet and always has some good stories.

The Sheriff's RO/FTO that handles the re-qualification is a great guy that's been with the SO's for a very long time and is truly 'one of us', a 'firearms enthusiast' *cough*gun nut*cough*. The classroom work is pretty much exactly what you'd expect; a Power Point slide show reviewing when you can and cannot use lethal force, all boiling down to: to defend your self or others around you from the threat of immediate physical violence, yes. To protect property or to prevent the theft of property, no. Also stressed where the factors of imminent danger, ability to commit violence and proximity to the threat (the guy with the baseball bat on the other side of the 20' tall chain link fence that's verbalizing threats, has the ability and the intention, but is not in immediate proximity, therefore, no, you can't use lethal force.) After about 3 hours of classroom review we get to the fun stuff. Let's go shoot!

The Sheriff's department requires you to qualify using a holster (preferably the one you're going to be actually carrying in), no exceptions. This bit me in the *** once when I was trying to get a North American Arms .32 Guardian on my license; now the NAA .32 is about the same size as a Seecamp. It's a lil' tiny thing and I hadn't planned on carrying it in a holster, just tossing it in a pocket. When I showed up on the range day, I found out about the holster requirement. So no holster, no qualify. Double rats.

Each firearm is inspected by the RO to make sure all it's safety devices function and that the weapon is in good working condition. The guns ranged the complete spectrum, from my Glock 30 and S&W 637, to an old school single action revolver of indeterminate make in .45 LC (the rancher's I believe). There were a fair number of Sigs and Glocks, a couple of wheel guns and one old and busted pre-war Walther that was disqualified from the shoot because of a safety issue. Not sure what it was but he had a back up so it worked out. And oddly not a single 1911 or H&K in sight.

Currently the license as printed by the DOJ has space for four handguns. I've heard of some counties and cities that allow more. When I first qualified back in 1999, the limit was four. Then about four years ago, the Sheriff decided that now, only two would be allowed on each license she signed off on. The reasoning behind that decision (as explained to me by the Range Officer was that you wanted to carry and practice with the same guns all the time, and not have to worry about a different manual of arms for four different guns – sort of the "beware of the man that carries one gun – he probably knows how to use it well" school of thought. They also instituted a caliber floor then also; no handguns below .380 ACP. Whatever. I have to play by their rules. Strangely enough out of the dozen people in the class only myself and four others had two guns to qualify with (except for the guy who's Walther DQ'd).

After the safety inspection and serial number verification, we were all issued soft body armor to wear while on range. That's new, so I asked what gives? Turns out they had an incident where a shooter was hit in the chest by a ricochet. No serious injury and they're not really sure how the heck it even happened, but new range rule is all shooters get a vest. *sigh* ok, I can do that even though it interferes with my draw from IWB carry.

I said we were going to shoot right? And so we did. The RO gave it to us straight; he's not there to teach any of us how to shoot. If we're responsible enough to be approved for the CCW, we should be responsible enough to maintain proper gun handling skills. That means range time and appropriate training by qualified instructors.
Now the course of fire for the SO's CCW class is pretty darn basic and seriously if you can't pass then you really shouldn't be carrying a gun.
Course of fire as follows:

Five shots at 15 yards in 30 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
Five shots at 10 yards in 20 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
Five shots at 7 yards in 10 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.
(Seeing a pattern here yet?)
Five shots at 3 yards in 5 seconds. Reload, re-holster, repeat.

All on a standard full size B-27 silhouette target, to pass qualification, 80% of your shots have to fall within the 8-ring. Pretty simple, though at 15 yards, I had to slow down appreciably when shooting the S&W 637; you need a steady hand for that little 2" barrel to get your rounds where you want them.

The shoot was straight forward and we didn't even have to pick up our own brass (they have a crew of inmates and weekenders from the county jail do that!). I wore my old set of Pro Ear Linear Elite electronic ear muffs which are a great thing to have when you're going to be listening to range commands.

No major malfunctions on the range and no safety violations (ok the guy with the single action was a little clumsy and the RO stood right behind him the entire time), but no one went home with more holes than they started with and all the rounds went that way, which is what you want on a hot range.

After the last of us were done, all firearms were secured and I packed up and left the range (interesting note: since this is (usually) a LEO only range, there's a sign just past the front gate that you can only read as you're leaving. It says:
"Did you remember to reload?")

Approximately one month later in the second week of December, the nice lady in Sheriff's Administration called to say that my license was ready to be picked up. They cannot mail it to you as you need to supply a right thumb print... and cut them two checks. One check to the California DOJ for the sum of $52.00. And then a second check made out to the SO's for... $380.00. Can you believe it? It went up a $100 since the last time. At this rate I may not be able to afford this much longer.

Signed off on the license, applied my right thumb print (in triplicate) and I was done for another two years.

So there it is. The re-qualification and reapplication process for a CCW as issued by the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office.

Guy B. Meredith
May 7, 2008, 11:30 AM
QuarterBoreGunner, any off hand shooting?

Chabot has a PPC has the following on their web page and I was curious as to whether this is the actual course of fire:

This new course of fire is taken from the State Mandated course for Security Officers and civilian CCW holders. It's fast and close with one handed shooting and lots of reloads. .22's may be used in this stage since they are permitted in the CCW rules. It's well suited to the first time as well as the more experienced shooter.

Stage 1 - 15 yds. 6 rds in 30 seconds, any standing position.
Stage 2 - 7 yds. 14 rds in 45 seconds, incl. 2 reloads of 6, 6, & 2; 6 standing & 8 kneeling.
Stage 3 - 7 yds. 6 rds in 10 seconds, any position
Stage 4 - 7 yds. 12 rds in 25 seconds, incl. 1 reload of 6: 6 from strong hand & 6 from weak hand both unsupported.
Stage 5 - 5 yds 6 rds: 3 rds in 4 seconds in 2 stages
Stage 6 - 3 yds 6 rds: 2 rds in 3 seconds in 3 stages

QuarterBoreGunner
May 7, 2008, 12:17 PM
Nope, no off hand shooting, no 'shot and move', no barricade. Just plain vanilla, draw and fire.

thorn726
May 7, 2008, 05:35 PM
wait, so am i reading this right, you got the CCW in CCC???

wow!! RIGHT THE HECK ON MAN!!!!!

(regardless of what abnormal stuff you have behind you to help with justification, and i hope whatever it was it didn't traumatize you, i'll hope it's more like you carry big $$$ but whatever..)

if you're not a cop and you got a ccw around here, it's a victory

TAB
May 7, 2008, 06:07 PM
unless you bought it, then its a crime.( not only litterly)

PressCheck
May 13, 2008, 05:26 PM
It can't be bought in CCC. I know many people that donate a lot of money to the Sheriff's Charities that want one, but can't get one.

mgregg85
May 13, 2008, 08:11 PM
Wow, $432 for just two years?

QuarterBoreGunner
May 13, 2008, 08:20 PM
^ Yup.

akulahawk
May 14, 2008, 03:43 AM
QuarterBoreGunner, you live in San Francisco but you have a Santa Clara County CCW?

How then, do you legally get around the following:

PC 12050 (D) For the purpose of subparagraph (A), the applicant shall
satisfy any one of the following:
(i) Is a resident of the county or a city within the county.
My understanding is that your legal primary residence is what counts. I take it then that your legal primary residence is in Santa Clara County? The only folks that get around that are PC 830.6 Reserve Officers (who get a 4 year CCW) and you only have a 2 year, which clearly makes you not a Reserve Officer. Are you a retired LEO?

If the above isn't correct, your legal residence is San Francisco and you've legally got a Santa Clara County CCW... I'd certainly like to know you you legally did it as I currently live in a county that is impossible to get a CCW in as well...

Thanks!

Birukun
May 15, 2008, 04:05 AM
You missed item (ii)

"(D) For the purpose of subparagraph (A), the applicant shall satisfy any one of the following:

(i) Is a resident of the county or a city within the county.

(ii) Spends a substantial period of time in the applicant's principal place of employment or business in the county or a city within the county. "

akulahawk
May 15, 2008, 02:19 PM
You missed item (ii)

"(D) For the purpose of subparagraph (A), the applicant shall satisfy any one of the following:

(i) Is a resident of the county or a city within the county.

(ii) Spends a substantial period of time in the applicant's principal place of employment or business in the county or a city within the county. "

12050 (2)(A)(ii) If the licensee's place of employment or business was the
basis for issuance of the license pursuant to subparagraph (A) of
paragraph (1), the license is valid for any period of time not to
exceed 90 days from the date of the license. The license shall be
valid only in the county in which the license was originally issued...
No, I did not miss that portion of the code. If that part of the code was the reason for his CCW in a county outside where he resides, that should be a 90 day CCW that is only good in the county that issued it, not a 2 year CCW that is valid statewide.

I excluded that because he specified that his CCW is valid for 2 years and is good statewide, not a 90 day CCW valid only in Santa Clara County.

luckylogger6
May 15, 2008, 04:21 PM
Chabot has a PPC has the following on their web page and I was curious as to whether this is the actual course of fire:

This new course of fire is taken from the State Mandated course for Security Officers and civilian CCW holders. It's fast and close with one handed shooting and lots of reloads. .22's may be used in this stage since they are permitted in the CCW rules. It's well suited to the first time as well as the more experienced shooter.

Stage 1 - 15 yds. 6 rds in 30 seconds, any standing position.
Stage 2 - 7 yds. 14 rds in 45 seconds, incl. 2 reloads of 6, 6, & 2; 6 standing & 8 kneeling.
Stage 3 - 7 yds. 6 rds in 10 seconds, any position
Stage 4 - 7 yds. 12 rds in 25 seconds, incl. 1 reload of 6: 6 from strong hand & 6 from weak hand both unsupported.
Stage 5 - 5 yds 6 rds: 3 rds in 4 seconds in 2 stages
Stage 6 - 3 yds 6 rds: 2 rds in 3 seconds in 3 stages

This is not true. I didnít need to qualify or do any shooting for my CCW. CCW is a county thing and not much is "State Mandated".

akulahawk
May 15, 2008, 04:27 PM
The only thing "State Mandated" about the BSIS Course of Fire is that it is mandated only for people that have a BSIS issued Gun Permit. CCW courses of fire vary greatly. Approved CCW courses also vary greatly. They can be anything from PC 832 (if required by all applicants) to a 16 hour course. Renewals can be much, much shorter and a requalification shoot is not required, though many counties require a requal shoot.

Guy B. Meredith
May 29, 2008, 01:41 AM
QuarterBoreGunner,

What is required for the Santa Clara County CCW in terms of needs statement? Just curious--Xerox has me working that area as my primary territory.

nicki
May 30, 2008, 06:15 AM
Visit Jim March's site at www.equalccw.com

Info is dated, but still relevant in California.
Give you an idea what you are dealing with.

Nicki

QuarterBoreGunner
May 30, 2008, 02:52 PM
Guy; I'll tell you up front that my approval process is not the one that is generally recommended; I managed an indoor range/retail store in Santa Clara for most of the 90's. We were also the local dealer for LEO weapons; H&K, FN, Bushmaster all the big name high speed low drag select fire stuff.
I first applied for my CCW via the SO's in 1997 I believe, and thought I had a pretty good chance of getting it.

I was managing a retail gun store with a large number of firearms on premise
My father is a retired, decorated Deputy with the same SO's I was applying to.
I already have a security clearance from a previous job.
Oh and I'm transporting machine guns in my own vehicle to the various LE Dept in the area for T&E, maintenance, etc.

No dice, they turned me down flat with a "insufficient good cause". That pretty much told me that there literally was *no* good cause statement that they would accept.

Then in July 1999 a dumba** punk kid that had decided that life was unfair attempted a take over robbery of the store; his plan was to steal guns and ammo from us, kill the three of us in the store, then drive to a local nightclub where he had been turned down for a job as a bouncer, kill everyone there he could before PD killed him or he killed himself. He detailed all of this in a suicide note/manifesto. Pretty messed up stuff.
Anyway as you can imagine his plan was *not* thought out very well (ie: when attempting an armed robbery of a gun store, it may be wise to factor in the variable that the employee's of said gun store, may, in fact, be armed themselves.)
After the ensuing loud noises and shouting he went to the nearest trauma center with his primary respiration system perforated, and I went home (eventually - man that was a long night) four rounds of .45 lighter. (two hits two misses on my part - meh, I call that a win.)
After all was said and done, the SO's decided that, yeah, maybe me having a CCW was a good idea.

Like I said, not the approved process.

Yellowfin
May 30, 2008, 04:02 PM
So basically the logic is you need a fire extinguisher after your house has caught on fire already. Your wife has to be raped first before she can defend herself from being raped. To get a parachute you have to survive a plane crash. And to be able to wear a seatbelt for driving to and from work you have to be a NASCAR driver.

QuarterBoreGunner
May 30, 2008, 04:04 PM
^ Yup, that's pretty much it.
It sucks but that's the way it is until we change it.

Yellowfin
May 30, 2008, 04:07 PM
That's why Smith needs to be GONE. How in the hell someone hasn't made her public enemy #1 and run out of town I have no idea. The problem as I understand thus far is that for someone to kick her out they have to run for office against their own boss.

If you enjoyed reading about "SF Bay Area CCW" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!