Stimulous checks; a different angle


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MachIVshooter
May 3, 2008, 01:26 AM
Alright, I know I'm bending the rules here because this really isn't gun related, but I think it's worthy of discussion. So, mods, please humor me. I also apologize for the misspelling of "stimulus" in the title. I hit submit to quickly.

I was reading through some articles on the economic stimulus package and decided to go over some of the posted comments and I was just blown away how so many people can sit there and scoff at money being thrown thier way, perfectly satisfied to continue blaming the current administration for our failing economy and mock Bush's effort to imrove it. Now, I'm no fan of Bush, but how can these idiots not see that the economic state of affairs here can be blamed on only one group of people, which is the American consumer? Seriously, do these folks not understand that when they are whining about the economy, they're doing it on an imported phone from an imported car with a trunkload of imported goods? Do they not see that our insatiable hunger for cheap products and services is what has put the American worker out of a job and rendered him unable to buy whatever it is that these crybabies are selling to make their money?

I ask of these people, what have you done to make it better? When was the last time you made an effort to buy American products? (this question is rhetorical, as I don't think we have many of the aforementioned individuals on this board).

It just infuriates me how this group will scapegoat anything and everything, even if their ignorance costs them (and all of us) down the road.

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chris in va
May 3, 2008, 01:28 AM
Hey, show me American made goods I can afford and I'll be first in line to overlook the foreign stuff. 'Made in USA' is so scarce now, it comes as a surprise when I actually do find it.

Take ammo for example. 7.62x39 USA stuff...$13/box. Wolf? $5.50.

MachIVshooter
May 3, 2008, 01:32 AM
Hey, show me American made goods I can afford and I'll be first in line to overlook the foreign stuff. 'Made in USA' is so scarce now, it comes as a surprise when I actually do find it.

Take ammo for example. 7.62x39 USA stuff...$13/box. Wolf? $5.50.

I rest my case. It is this attitude that has put us here.

If you have the option to buy American, you should. Even if it costs more right now. 100 years ago, domestic goods were cheaper than imported stuff. Why do you suppose that is?

I'm not saying that we should never buy foreign goods. Sometimes Domestic stuff just isn't available. And sometimes the imported goods actually do yield substantial profit stateside, which does help the economy (Surplus stuff, for example: Our distributors buy it extremely cheap and turn a healthy profit).

But the next time you're debating between a Glock and an M&P, think about this.

Kind of Blued
May 3, 2008, 03:26 AM
Maybe I'm ignorant, where are Glocks made? Where are M&Ps made? Is the Georgian stamp the Glock importer?

bogie
May 3, 2008, 03:32 AM
Who prints the "No Guns" signs?

Jdude
May 3, 2008, 06:38 AM
Believe it or not, I've picked up a complete set of dishwasher safe made in the USA plastic cups, plates and bowls. I also grabbed a frying pan and a kool aid pitcher. I have a box of remington 22lr subsonic, also made in the USA. I have a flare gun and flares marked orion, peru, Indiana. Most of this stuff was within pennies of the foreign items.

I purchased every single item at the local WAL-MART. ( :uhoh: )

Made in USA is available. Just look on the box, usually near the bar code.



* Someone's taking a road trip :neener: :D

Dismantler
May 3, 2008, 07:29 AM
Yep! This is in the wrong forum! :)

Apple a Day
May 3, 2008, 07:33 AM
Buy a Ruger

HKUSP45C
May 3, 2008, 07:40 AM
Wait just a darn minute, Americans weren't born to produce, we consume.

Honestly, we haven't made anything worth buying since the eighties. So, just buy your globalized crap and sleep well.

Take your check and buy some cake with it. Six hunney ought to buy a lot of cake.

jad0110
May 3, 2008, 07:55 AM
Not firearm related, but I'll post my thoughts anyway ...

You assume that the economy is "failing" ... it may well be, but we won't know for another 6 months. We still have positive growth in GDP (only about .6%, but it is still growing), so we aren't in a recession - by definition - at this time, despite all the handwringing on the nightly news. A recession is definined as 6 consecutive months of negative GDP, which we haven't even had one month of yet (that we have data for). I'm not saying everything is rosey for everyone, but nor is it as bad as being reported by the chicken littles on TV.

This is an election year, afterall.

And unemployment is still below 5% (actually, it is lower than the 8-year average of the Clinton administration). On top of that, median and mean household incomes have steadily risen during this time. Which I interpret to mean that though there may be turmoil our there (outsourcing, downsizing, etc), the average person is apparently finding a way to fight through it and is doing pretty well for themselves. I don't give any credit to politians for that, it just the hardworking attitude that most Americans (and just about everyone on THR I assume) possess. I don't mean to make light of those that have lost their jobs, that is most certainly a tramatic life event. Most people though get back on their feet and find a new path, perhaps a completely new one.

Like it or not, for the last 30 or so years, the U.S. economy has been transitioning from a manufacturing-based economy to one based on services. Just as it transitioned from agricultural to manufacturing over 100 years ago.

If any one factor is putting a damper on things, it would have to be gas prices. How much of a damper, we'll have to wait and see.

------

To make this firearms related, most of the guns I own were either made in the USA or at least owned by a U.S. based company. I didn't intend for it to be that way, call me crazy, but I buy stuff based on best value to me, taking into account price and features. For example, both my cars are Japanese. I'd buy an American car if I found that one best met my needs.

YMMV.

Dksimon
May 3, 2008, 08:07 AM
If the economy is failing you couldnt tell by looking at my portfolio. Maybe I'm just delaying the hit but as far as I can see I'm doing fine.

Vermont
May 3, 2008, 09:01 AM
If the economy is failing you couldnt tell by looking at my portfolio. Maybe I'm just delaying the hit but as far as I can see I'm doing fine.

Your portfolio may be fine in terms of how many dollars it's worth, but those dollars buy you less and less each day.

MachIVshooter
May 3, 2008, 09:25 AM
Every single person who posted completely missed my point. Some of you seem to think I'm deriding members here, which I feel I was quite clear I am not. And a couple of you felt compelled to point out that it's not gun related, even though I acknowledge that in the very first line of the post. That's a decent indicator of how much attention was paid to the rest of it.

Once again, my beef is with those who are feeling the economic slump and are griping about it, but misplace the blame. This thread was not intended to discuss what consumer goods are made where, or even the economy itself.

The primary point of this thread is that those people I am referring to seem to be unhappy that they are being given money.

The secondary issue is that these same people put forth absolutely no effort to make things better. The expect the government to handle it. They don't seem to understand that governments do not control the economy in a free market; Consumers do.

Glocks made? Where are M&Ps made?

Austria, USA

CannibalCrowley
May 3, 2008, 09:33 AM
I ask of these people, what have you done to make it better? When was the last time you made an effort to buy American products? (this question is rhetorical, as I don't think we have many of the aforementioned individuals on this board).

We're a capitalist society, I buy whatever gets me the best product for my money and I don't worry about which country the maker is based in. If so-called American companies want my business then they need to improve their product quality and price.

When I buy things I look for a good value. When I want to donate money I give it to a charity, not an inept company.

An extra hiccup in the OP's reasoning are the foreign companies that make products in the US while their domestic competitors make them overseas. Take a look at cars for instance; the big three makes cars with more foreign parts than some of their foreign competitors.

MachIVshooter
May 3, 2008, 09:34 AM
These are the things people have written that I was talking about:

Yay! I get a $600 check because Bush ruined our economy! I think I will have espresso instead of the house coffee tomorrow

Bush promoting anything is the kiss of death. Isn't the economy wounded enough already? He infuriates me. What an unmitigated disaster for this country.

The only thing that's a "come on" is Bush. He's wrecked the economy with his bogus war,deals with big oil and big tax breaks for the rich. The poor and midle class have suffered greatly under Bush. His rebate program is a shell game to distract the American public from realizing how bad the economy is.

OMG, I wish he hadn't predicted it. Now we know our economy is doomed.

WHAT PLANET DOES THIS MORON LIVE ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess when a person has spent the last 7 + years with his head up his butt, we get this kind of rhetoric.. O'well we need a laugh, with gas at $4 bucks, food price's up, more job's lost, people losing their homes, and EVERYONE with a brain is looking forward to next January 20th, and a new President.. She'll be a welcome site.

Blackbeard
May 3, 2008, 09:46 AM
IBTL

I have a question for the "buy American" crowd: Do I buy the Toyota made in Ohio or the Ford made in Mexico? Which one is an American product?

I don't care where something is made. I care whether it is a quality product and what value I get for my money. That's the American way. If you want me to buy your US-made product, it had better be the best value for the price.

cornman
May 3, 2008, 09:46 AM
" They don't seem to understand that governments do not control the economy in a free market; Consumers do."


There is no free market. We have a system that is designed by the rich and for the rich. The health care bills were made by the big pharma and insurance companies. The banckrutcy bill was written by the credit card companies. Even science is being manipulated by corporate interests in this admin. Right now the stock market is being held up by the "plung protection team" to keep people from panicing, but this will only work for so long. Sure you can blaim the consumer, but when real wages have fallen from 40 years ago people have one option and that is to save money by buying on the cheap. It was not the consumer that has been shipping PROFITABLE industry overseas. It is the corportate control of the Gov't that is the real problem. Althougth I guess like most issues the conservitive line is to blaim the poor, wave the flag all while fattening there wallets and undermining the nation's economy...

ctdonath
May 3, 2008, 09:46 AM
What economic slump? Things change. Cope.

Unhappy about being given money? Nobody is unhappy they are getting money; people are unhappy with that paltry amount because it reminds them that the government is confiscating so much of their incomes. Kinda like a waitress finding a $0.25 tip after serving a meal to 8.

Not trying to make things better? A plethora of laws is what makes doing business impractical vs. foreign competitors. Consumers may make the final choice of what to buy, but it's gov't that enacted the bulk of requirements which make manufacturing here so much more expensive than China. I can't even legally hire the neighborhood kid to spread pine straw in my back yard without paying him minimum wage (designed to support a family of four), running a background check, filing a Form-SomethingOrOther, performing tax withholding, providing OSHA-certified tools/conditions, and/or a host of other inanities. Heck, the corner bank is offering a free tomato plant with every new checking account - and has to file a blasted Form-1099 for customers to report as imputed income!!! I as customer should be buying products with the best balance of price vs. quality - NOT trying to counteract insane gov't policies by buying other than what I actually want to buy.

Blackbeard
May 3, 2008, 09:52 AM
One more if I have time.

Many people on this board frequently recommend leaving a state with anti-gun laws. I've even heard people recommend others leave their country (UK, Sweden, etc.) to come to America for the favorable laws. I agree. If you can't change the government, then move to a country where the laws are more friendly to your cause.

Why then shouldn't a business leave a country with anti-business laws for one that is more favorable?

Dksimon
May 3, 2008, 09:53 AM
Cornman:
You may need to put your tinfoil hat back on. seriously.

Mal H
May 3, 2008, 10:32 AM
"I know I'm bending the rules here because this really isn't gun related ..."
You are correct, sir. The rules have now been duly straightened.

"but I think it's worthy of discussion."
Indeed it is - at APS. (http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/)

If you enjoyed reading about "Stimulous checks; a different angle" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!