[Jamie C.]

140-year-old Cannonball Kills Collector (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/02/national/main4068515.shtml)




J.C.

[StrawHat]

When I lived in Maryland it seemed like every month someone would discover that grandad's musket was still loaded. Some found out by using a ramrod others by pulling the trigger.

Black powder stays viable forever. Or so it seems.

[Dksimon]

sad story. Amazing that it stays good for that long...

[scrat]

it never goes bad. i have read too many stores just like this pretty sad

[Tommygunn]

As a kid learning gun safety my father bought a book about it which I recall reading. One real life example was a family's heirloom percussion rifle that according to family history was last used shortly after the Civil War. It had been a wall-hanger since in the family home. The son of the then current owner had a friend over to play, and in showing the rifle off, picked it up, aimed it at his friend, cocked it, and pulled the trigger.
BOOOOOOOM!!!!!
:what:
Yeah, he just killed his friend, with a gun that had last been used a century before. Used, cleaned, reloaded, and hung on the wall.
Because back then, it was common; if you needed a gun you needed it fast and loading it at that point was going to get you dead.
That was a tragic lesson in gun safety which I recall to this day.
And yeah, other Civil War ordinance can still be dangerous today-- every once in awhile a cannon shell is found somewhere. The explosives in these can be even more unstable than the were in 1864.

[sixgunner455]

Around here, we assume ANYTHING that looks like it might blow up, probably will. And we call the post EOD guys, even if we are in town, because it was probably theirs at some point anyway.

Sad story.

[Rachen]

Unlike smokeless powder, which deteriorates over time and produces highly corrosive and toxic vapors, black powder is extremely stable, the more simple the composition used to make it, the more stable it is and longer lasting.

I know of Cowboy Action folks who fire black powder cartridges that dates back to over 120 years ago, and they worked absolutely fine.

I am very sad to hear this news. RIP Mr. White. And just yesterday on the General Gun Discussions forum, there was an article of how someone tried to disassemble a World War I era 37 mm artillery round, and it blew his legs off.

Live munitions are not a joke at all, and if you don't know what you are doing, trouble is probably going to follow.

[Cosmoline]

I wonder if it was the main powder charge or the detonator that went off. Either way, looks like he's the last fatality of the Civil War.

[Funderb]

though it's a sad story, I just think the blame on a "manufacturing defect" is a moot point. It was designed to explode, and manufactured so. Not to be collected. It looks like its job was executed successfully, though extremely ill-timed. The only defect was that it exploded 140 years too late.

RIP.

[Rachen]

I wonder if it was the main powder charge or the detonator that went off. Either way, looks like he's the last fatality of the Civil War.

Of course it was the main powder charge. The "detonator" in question is just a mercuric fulminate primer that wouldn't have been able to create such catastrophic damage by itself. According to the article, a piece of shrapnel flew more than 400 hundred yards and pierced someone's porch.

The blast is very potent.

[theotherwaldo]

Yep. Black powder stays dangerous. My uncle could have told you that. He confiscated my freshly-found fowling piece and promptly blew two toes off of his right foot.

Rarely have I found a reasonably complete firearm that wasn't loaded. Even the Patterson I dug up where a boom town burned down was still cocked and fully loaded - although the caps were long gone.

Ironically, one of the few unloaded finds was a piece of light artillery, an indian-chaser 2-pounder that was captured by the indians and hidden in a creek.

Boys and girls, any firearm that could POSSIBLY fire should be treated with respect, and that goes double for explosive munitions!

[Beagle-zebub]

Man, 140 years?! That's a long fuse.

[Cosmoline]

The "detonator" in question is just a mercuric fulminate primer that wouldn't have been able to create such catastrophic damage by itself.

I'm not sure about that one way or the other. I also don't know if the report is accurate. A shell of that magnitude going off all the way would have taken out a HOUSE, not just one person. Plus, the raw powder is much easier to neutralize than the detonator and I'm sure an experienced handler would have been able to do that easily. Good old H20 is an extremely effective way to render any BP charge harmless goo, and if the main metal case is pitted through the charge will be exposed to decades of groundwater. But the detonators don't usually corrode away, and they do get sensitive with age. So an apparently inert shell can still be lethal. I know of two late 19th century shells pulled from the old Angoon village site where the USN bombed the natives. In both cases it was the detonator the bomb squad was most worried about because of its size and sensitivity.

9-inch, 75-pound naval cannonball, a particularly potent explosive with a more complex fuse and many times the destructive power of those used by infantry artillery.

That's a huge piece for tearing apart forts. The ones I know about were also from a CW era naval vessel, though they were half that size. I got to see the one my bro had in Juneau before the bomb specialists blasted it. It had a big hole in it and I never would have guessed it was still dangerous.

The reason I bring this up is not to pick nits but to reiterate than EVEN when a shell is hollowed out and "empty" of active powder, it can still be extremely dangerous. It's one thing better left to experts to sort out.

[plexreticle]

I wonder how many of the museum pieces he worked on sill have a live fuse?

[Cosmoline]

Looking further into the background...

Experts suspect White was killed while trying to disarm a 9-inch, 75-pound naval cannonball, a particularly potent explosive with a more complex fuse and many times the destructive power of those used by infantry artillery.
...
Because of the fuse design, it may have appeared as though the weapon's powder had already been removed, leading even a veteran like White to conclude mistakenly that the ball was inert.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hABdWxhcq_-dWkz9NoqWpulkkr_gD90DSQPO0

[hobgob]

Very sad!
Also sad that some idiot used that article to display his hatred for mankind, did anyone read the comments after that article, they were pretty dispicable!

[Mausermike]

There was some local guys that tried to kill themselves when they heated the stuck nipple on an old caplock muzzle loader with a torch. Boy did they ever get a surprise when the gun went off, the ball went through their garage door, grazed their car, flew across a street full of kids playing road hockey, and lodged in a telephone pole.

[alsaqr]

I've have 40+ years as an explosive ordnance disposal tech. The guy who was killed endangered his neighbors and his family. He had a lucrative business inerting civil war explosive ordnance and, unfortunatly, the law of averages caught up with him.

[Funderb]

The fuse is not mercuric fulminate. that it a percussion cap.
a percussion cap would explode inside a cannon upon acceleration.
Naval cannonballs had timed burn fuses.

I also don't think the ball would take out the entire house if it were just in the driveway. It's not a 3000 lb. bomb.

[Rachen]

He had a lucrative business inerting civil war explosive ordnance and, unfortunatly, the law of averages caught up with him.

Should have taken an explosives-handling course before messing around with stuff like that. Like I said, live munitions is not a joke at all.

I'm not sure about that one way or the other. I also don't know if the report is accurate. A shell of that magnitude going off all the way would have taken out a HOUSE, not just one person. Plus, the raw powder is much easier to neutralize than the detonator and I'm sure an experienced handler would have been able to do that easily. Good old H20 is an extremely effective way to render any BP charge harmless goo, and if the main metal case is pitted through the charge will be exposed to decades of groundwater. But the detonators don't usually corrode away, and they do get sensitive with age. So an apparently inert shell can still be lethal. I know of two late 19th century shells pulled from the old Angoon village site where the USN bombed the natives. In both cases it was the detonator the bomb squad was most worried about because of its size and sensitivity.


Mr. White didn't use water or any other method at all. He actually DRILLED into that shell, with an extremely high velocity power tool that obviously created much sparks and friction heat. Also the thing was in the driveway. If it had been inside the house, it would have leveled it like an F4 tornado. It exploded on the sidewalk outside the driveway, and of course, it would have scarred and pitted the front of the house, at the same time sending shrapnel flying about like hailstones. It wouldn't have been able to take out a house from that range, because black powder, even though it is compressed beyond comprehension inside it's steel casing, is still a low explosive, with little, if any shock wave. Modern high explosives do much of their devastation with merely the shock wave caused by compressing air in front of the blast "fan". A black powder explosion creates tremendous heat and concussion, but little shock wave effect.

In order for a black powder explosion to be devastatingly effective, it MUST be contained. Modern explosive shells do not have that requirement. When these explode, their shock wave obliterates anything within immediate range. However, black powder, as long as there is plenty of space for it to burn, it is not usually as effective. Lets look at a fort for example. If a black powder shell strikes the fort's outer wall and immediately explodes on contact, it would gouge out a crater within that wall, and inflict a massive char mark. HOWEVER, if that same shell had a delayed detonation device, and instead of exploding on contact, it penetrates through the wall, lands in a small room, and then explodes, the damage done would be far more deadlier and tremendous than if the shell merely exploded on contact with the wall. The small room, and the narrow hallways beyond the room would create the perfect atmosphere for the rapid conflagration of the burning powder, concentrating it's heat and energy within a small space.

[Rachen]

The comments posted after the CBS article is truly IMBECILE and IMMATURE. More like a drunken Saturday night rant session than a civilized discussion.

Especially those people who called somebody "right wing nuts", and somebody else who mocked the Charlton Heston quote.

GROW THE HELL UP FOR GOD'S SAKE.

[Cosmoline]

Mr. White didn't use water or any other method at all. He actually DRILLED into that shell, with an extremely high velocity power tool that obviously created much sparks and friction heat.

You don't know what safety methods he used. According to the article he was an expert who thought he had already neutralized the charge:

Because of the fuse design, it may have appeared as though the weapon's powder had already been removed, leading even a veteran like White to conclude mistakenly that the ball was inert.

Naval cannonballs had timed burn fuses.

Not all of them. There were an array of fuses used during that period, from simple to complex multi-stage affairs. The point is you cannot trust that one of these things is inert simply because the main charge has been drilled out and removed. This is the one the Air Force bomb squad took:

http://vilda.alaska.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2Fcdmg30&CISOPTR=14&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=1440&DMHEIGHT=2000&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=1&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&DMTHUMB=0&REC=4&DMROTATE=0&x=316&y=221

[Tru Griff]

What does one use to preserve the outside of a cannon ball like those pictured in his collection?

Read the story and reminded me of a Dr. / relic hunter who told me various stories back in the 80's of how he had found some of these and how he removed the fuse and powder in the past. Just enough info to know not to mess with one if found with a fuse.

Found this 80lb solid shot in buddies backyard but would like to seal/preserve it.

[Rachen]

Found this 80lb solid shot in buddies backyard but would like to seal/preserve it.


Um......................................................Are you positively sure it is SOLID?;)

[Tru Griff]

"Um......................................................Are you positively sure it is SOLID?"

It wouldn't be sitting there if it wasn't. No fuse hole at all. No hole period, even for the forks to pick it up for loading. The ends of my fingers can vouch that it is solid as well after pinching them various times when trying to pick it up. Found that it's a lot easier to just roll on a towel then pick it up with the ends of the towel.

[Rachen]

I was just trying to be cautious, sorry.

[Tru Griff]

No reason to be sorry. Good to ask before something happens like what did from this original thread.

[DutchmanDick]

I read somewhere that every year in Europe, and especially France, there are quite a few farmers who are killed when their plows hit ordnance that landed there way back in WWI. Even the French "demineurs" are scared of this stuff. If they find one that "sloshes", they are DOUBLY scared, because that indicates a poison gas shell (the "gas" was actually a liquid that was dispersed by the explosive inside the shell), and after all those years the outside container is THIN. Even an overly strong grip can rupture the shell, releasing still deadly mustard gas liquid all over the poor sap who picked it up. NOT a job I would want, no matter how good the pay was!!!

[Mp7]

... here in Germany we find ww2 ordnance everytime somthing is constructed.
Usually it´s airdropped bombs or those tinder-sticks that were inside
firebombs.

When i was a kid som 10year olds found one of those stick-hangrenades
in a corn field.... sensing it was sumthin dangerous they brought it
straight to my Kindergarten(!!!)
..should´ve seen the look on the Adults faces,
havin that completely rustcrusted grenade in the middle
of lil kids.

Bombsqad blew it up behind a barn....

Sad story. Don´t endanger others with ya hobby!

[alsaqr]

Was stationed with FT. Bragg, NC in 1959 and the early 60s with the 864th Explosive Ordnance Disposal unit. In about 1960 we got a call from the police in Washington, NC.

Seems like the local boat fixer and general handy man was brazing lugs on Civil War cannon balls so they could be used as boat anchors.

A ten inch cannon ball had detonated, tearing apart the workshop and damaging the nice house that he lived in. It killed the guy, of course. Blood and gore all over the place. We picked up several more live pieces of Civil War explosive ordnance, took it to Ft. Bragg and disposed of it.

This was the first call I went on where a person was killed with Civil War explosive ordnance: It was not the last such call.

[bigbadgun]

OH MY GOD
I new blackpowder would keep a very long time but 150 years wow.
Gives us all something to think about dont it.

[sundance44s]

I doubt if the last shot to be fired from the Civil War has been fired yet or the last man , woman or child has been injured or killed. Terrible mistakes ..resulting in ending life and or limb..People need to be more aware of what they are handleing .

[ZeSpectre]

Having heard stories like this one I almost had a heart attack when I literally tripped over a cannonball on a hike at Prince William Park (Virginia) a few years back.

Fortunately it was solid shot but the response from the ranger station I notified was gratifyingly prompt!

[Rachen]

As much as I can recall, black powder will keep for eternity if preserved in the right way. The more simpler the process used to make it, the more stable it will be. Unlike our smokeless cousins, synthesized in much complex laboratory procedures, black powder is a natural substance, completely made from nature.
There is nothing inside that can decompose, and as long it is maintained properly, it will serve you faithfully, better than a best friend, when you are in dire trouble.

I remember my grand uncle telling me of some of the guerilla actions the 8th Route Army used against unsuspecting Japanese advance units during the War. The soldiers of the 8th would litter wine kettles packed and sealed with black powder all over a country road when they knew in advance a Japanese convoy would be passing over it. The kettles are half buried in the dirt and sand, "just like planting orchid bulbs", as my grand uncle said it. He himself led men on these missions several times.

The kettles had no detonators, primers, pull strings, or anything. Instead, a squad of 8th Route Army was stationed in the hills or trees nearby, with their Mausers at the ready. Once the Japanese convoy rumbles over the baited road, the Communist troops would open fire, not at the enemy soldiers or officers, but at the kettles that are half exposed in the sand.

The resulting blasts killed much of the enemy, whose advance guards ALWAYS march in tight groups, since they did not EXPECT any resistance on a seemingly dusty country road. And what was even better for us, was the psychological impact it had on the aggressors. They NEVER found out what the trick really was. Instead, they thought that it was ARTILLERY fire that decimated their ranks. Especially with hundreds of deadly blasts occurring simultaneously, they thought that the 8th Route Army was shelling them with mortars.

In the July of 1944, my grand uncle led an ambush near Mukden, the ancient Manchu capital in Heillongjiang. He spoke to his commander that he found it best for him to lead small groups when dealing with unsuspecting Japanese advance guards, and obtained permission to use "fire kettles" on that fight. On that day, he only took along 10 men with him, along with just over 150 "fire kettles". Within an hour, they baited a 500 yard stretch of the road with kettles, and placed weeds and grass over them to hide them from enemy sight, even though he and his men knew what the "mounds of vegetation" was. An 8th Route Army agent pretending to be a Japanese informer told a nearby Kwantung army commander that a known Communist leader was hiding in a certain village with a certain number of armed fighters. There were three roads that led to this village, and my grand uncles' men felled trees along two of them, completely damming them up and making them impassable. The last, "untouched" road was the bait road.

Before the "informer" "ratted" out to the Japanese, the village was already evacuated and replaced with two brigades of the 8th Route Army, ready on standby with BARs, Thompsons, sharpshooters with Mausers and 7mm SAWs.

As expected, by early noontime, a Japanese detachment convoy began to rumble down the road, with the intent of assaulting the village. The day was extremely hot, the sky yellow with dust and humidity, and the clouds of sand raised by the enemy trucks and light tanks completely obscured the road, but our kettle mounds were still clearly visible, marked either by tall weeds, thistles replanted around the mounds. When the first troop carrier truck reached the end of the 500 yard stretch, a soldier fired a single round at a mound right next to the passing truck. The resulting blast blew the vehicle into halves and killed almost everybody on board. On cue, all 10 soldiers began firing. Suddenly, the stifling summer air was pierced by hundreds of powerful explosions. Enemy soldiers were tossed through the air like rag dolls, while shattered and burning vehicles littered the road. Within minutes, the entire detachment was wiped out, every single vehicle blown to smithereens.

Meanwhile, inside the abandoned village, the 8th Route Army brigades heard the sound of the fighting, and on cue, they charged out of the village, through the blasted road and pursued the fleeing survivors of the convoy.

The dazed and bloody enemy survivors led the 8th Route Army straight into a nearby Japanese encampment!! Caught completely unaware, with many soldiers still drunk and asleep or simply resting in the sun, the encampment surrendered immediately at the sight of hundreds after hundreds of grey uniformed Chinese soldiers suddenly storming through the camp, pointing heavy automatic weapons straight at their faces.

My grand uncle who, after the fight, came down from the trees to survey the damage that was done. He and his squad counted almost 550 dead, out of a convoy of just over 700 troops. Seven troop carriers and 4 light tanks lay burning on the road, all of them damaged so severely that we were not able to salvage them. The 8th Route Army also captured over 3000 prisoners during that fight. Commander Lin Biao had them marched 200 miles to the border, where they were handed over to the Soviets.

The 8th Route Army only suffered 11 casualties during the battle, with 2 dead amongst them. I guess you can say it was like Trenton and Princeton for us.
It was another military masterpiece executed by Field Marshal Lin Biao. It made up for our horrendous losses suffered during the Hundred Regiments Offensive launched the previous year.

This song is called "Didao Zhuang". (TUNNEL WARFARE). Inside you will see images of 8th Route Army troops using "fire kettles" against Japanese convoys. Usually, black powder is produced in immensely HUGE quantities, not by the CCP, but by elderly folk, women and children in the towns. Using butter churns, rice mills, and flour wheels, the peasants made tremendous quantities of black powder, sometimes right under the noses of the Japanese, packed them into rice sacks, which were labeled "Sweet Grain", and smuggled into Communist ranks for them to make into improvised mines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XjCfw-fENM

[tightgroups]

Hey guys,

I've got an 80lbs. cannon ball in the back yard of my rental property at this very moment! I told my kids weeks ago to stay away from it because it could possibly go off. I know enough about black powder to understand that unexploded ordinance is very dangerous, especially the black powder types. People think because they may be centuries old that they cannot blow up..well, we all know that isn't true, especially after Mr.White's unfortunate accident.

What do guys think I should do? I really don't want a bunch of jack booted thugs, like the ATF, running around on my property! They have a tendency to like shooting little kids a bit too much for my liking, and then burning them alive. :cuss:

Maybe call the local police department and tell them what I've got? It looks exactly like the thumbnail pic that Tru Grif posted on the first page of the thread. There does seem to be some sort of concrete looking plug on the surface of the cannon ball, which led me to believe that it could possibly be inert,. I really don't want to take any chances after reading the article about poor Mr.White!

TG.

[mykeal]

Start with the local PD. They will know who has the resources to identify and deal with the round. If the local police don't give you a warm feeling, go to the state police. The ATF will not be involved.

[Rachen]

What do guys think I should do? I really don't want a bunch of jack booted thugs, like the ATF,

Isn't ATF the name of a really cool convenience store? Beer, cigarettes, n' guns under the same roof?

Ugh.......How the times have changed.:(

[tightgroups]

Hahaha...

Unfortunately they don't do slurpees, but that's pretty much what most of those ATF thugs should be doing, flipping burgers or serving up slurpees!

I guess I'll call the local PD and see what happens. I don't want a circus in my back yard. With my luck they'll probably clear the whole neighborhood out and I'll have to stay at a Holiday Inn or something! Good grief!

TG.

[Mausermike]

Thinking of Germany, weren't 10-20% of all the aerial bombs dropped duds? When I was in Berlin one time, they were finding loads of them when constructing the new Potsdamer Platz.

At least they weren't filled with poison gas in WWII! :what:

[sundance44s]

Tightgroups ..the idea of you haveing one on your property ..is worrieing the heck out of me ..by all means please make a call today and get it taken out of there ..hopefully your city has a bomb squad or other group , that can take care of it ... let us know what you were able to do about it .. Good luck , and be careful .

[Tru Griff]

I agree with sundance. If it has a plug of any kind then it's dangerous and needs to be immediately removed by the proper authorities!

[jimrbto]

I retired from EOD after 22 years (1976) and can state very emphatically that there is no way any of us would do a "hands-on" render safe. All our procedures used to save munitions for museums etc were done at very remote sites and all of our procedures were done remotely.
Comments by Col Biemeck in the referenced article border on the criminally negligent. He should know better that to say "You can't drop these and make them go off". BULLCRAP!! All projectiles are made to be safe to handle and be bore safe until they are fired, once that projo travels down the tube and impacts on something - all bets are off and from that time forward must be considered able to detonate with the least bit of disturbance.

Tiightgroups - - - I don't remember which Army EOD unit is closest to you, best that you contact the local sheriff or police and they will contact the EOD Team or local bomb squad, ATF will never know about it!
Jim

[tightgroups]

I'm not worried about the ATF guys, I just don't like them for the reasons stated in my first post. I just would rather deal with respectable law enforcement, not jack-booted thugs. I'm going to call someone tomorrow to take care of it. I haven't been letting the kids play in the back yard since reading the article today. I'll let you guys know what happens.

TG.

[DixieTexian]

Take a picture of it for us first before it goes bye bye.

[archigos]

I know this isn't relevant to the main point here, but I had to submit the following feedback as a complaint to CBS.
The article "140-Yr.-Old Cannonball Kills Civil War Fan" is factually incorrect. It states that the Civil War was "the war the pitted the North against the South over slavery". Problematic grammar aside, the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery except that it ended it as a means to assisting the Union to win the war. The Civil War was fought over states rights - a subject that has been long forgotten in a nation now dominated by the federal government.
I don't blame the writer for believing this - its a misconception taught frequently in public school systems. However, by suggesting this, CBS is assisting the education system in perpetuating that falsehood. By misinforming the public, you are diminishing their chances of understanding the true purpose of the government structure that was designed to ensure their rights. Through their votes and their voices, this misinformation has some devastating consequences on freedom and balance of power in our nation. Please fact check political and historical reasoning in the future before publishing stories that may do further harm to our system of government.

I know it seems like I'm nitpicking, but that's the type of subtle flaw that changes innocent people's ideologies.

[tightgroups]

Rachen,

Great story about your Grandfather and your people during WWII. I really enjoyed it. I also listened to the song...very interesting. I used to work as a cook/driver/cashier in a Chinese carryout and I'm still good friends with the owner. He's really good people.

Too bad our countries (sorry, you're probably a U.S. freeborn like me!) are enemies at the moment. Maybe one day our two countries will once again be allies.

AS for the cannon ball in my back yard. I've decided to forward the information to my landlord. If the landlord doesn't get it taken care of by the weekend I'll be forced to report the cannon ball to the local PD.

I'll keep everyone informed as to the outcome. If I had batteries for my digital camera I'd take a picture and post it. Maybe I'll run out and buy some so you guys can take a look at it.

TG.

[Perk]

Haven’t been to Germany, since ’85 . But, when I was last there, finding unexploded ordinance was still an occasional occurrence. Believe they found a fairly large and intact aerial bomb, during my last stay. Took a few DAYS to get the thing exhumed and deactivated.

Have to wonder, sometimes, why we can’t get more products to last as long as something that’s supposed to blow up. Maybe, it’s because very few of us will kick around live ammunition, just because it doesn’t work.

Mp7 – Hummel, hummel! ;)

[Rachen]

Too bad our countries (sorry, you're probably a U.S. freeborn like me!) are enemies at the moment. Maybe one day our two countries will once again be allies.

Come on now.:rolleyes:

I have worked extremely hard for Sino American friendship since I was a little kid, continuing the work that my father and ex-war hero grand uncle had done.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why the people of the two greatest nations on Earth cannot be friends. Unfortunately, there are still certain individuals on both sides who are still filled with doubt and unnecessary fear about each other. Helping eliminate this fear and stereotyping on both sides is what I am doing, constantly, as well as promoting and preserving our 2nd Amendment.

The United States of America and the People's Republic of China must always work together to build a truly prosperous future for the whole world, our environment, and humankind.

[rusty from italy]

Haven’t been to Germany, since ’85 . But, when I was last there, finding unexploded ordinance was still an occasional occurrence. Believe they found a fairly large and intact aerial bomb, during my last stay. Took a few DAYS to get the thing exhumed and deactivated.


Here in Italy 500lbs unexploded bomb come out from the ground almost three time at year still now!
Army bomb squad don't move the bomb, make a big hole around it keeping the bomb with a crane, and then they put down the bomb in the hole with hundred Kg of TNT, during operation population is avacuated from home up a hlf mile distance from site, when everything is ok just a simple "click" on a detonator and KaBoom the bomb is't a trouble anymore :)
Whith this huge bomb, stayed under the ground for 60 year, where rust has work try to unscrew the detonator of the bomb is like a sucide!!
ciao
Rusty

[Voodoochile]

I'm supprised with the modern technology tha we have that none of our governments have set up a task force to search for these devices to dispose of them before they are inadvertently found.

As far as us here in the U.S. still finding unexploded Civil War ordanance like in my area Chancelorsville, Travillians, Petersburg, that is still a common find, & although I did not personally know Mr. White I have met him once or twice "I know for a fact at the Crater in Petersburg" a very passionate person about the historical finds that he has collected through the years & although this was tragic, he was doing what he loved.

[Mp7]

...wird bei der Menge der auf Deutschland abgeworfenen Bomben und einer durchschnittlichen Blindgängerquote um 20 Prozent, was in absoluten Zahlen mehr als 250.000 Blindgängerbomben entspricht...

20% duds..... equals 250.000 dud bombs in germany.
out EOD will be busy for the next 100 years to come.

... a friend who used to scan for historic things from the
30year war usually found like 9 bombs before he found
a mideval artefact. "Ah Mr. Gerhardt... you AGAIN"

(2 years ago at a autobahn construction site a guy on milling-cutter vehicle hit a 500lb bomb and all that was left was a big crater.)

[tightgroups]

Rachen,

Come on?:confused:

What do you mean exactly?

Everything I said is true, regardless if you and I both want peace, along with most of the common people. It's always the politicians, the leaders of nations that want to turn all of us into "Cannon Fodder" (excuse the pun, considering the subject matter of the thread!).

Both sides fill the airwaves full of propaganda. I've got more than enough articles on the Chinese military buildup, speeches of various Chinese generals preaching on the destruction of the United States of America. There is a duel face that Chinese leaders seem to juggle between when speaking to Americans and when speaking to their own people. It's a common occurrence in all countries...talk big and bad to your people and become diplomatic when speaking with your "enemy" or whatever you'd like to call the other side.

I have no fear concerning the average Chinese person. They are the same as I am, wanting peace and a good life for their family. the problem lies with the maniac leaders on both sides...who keep up the war-whooping, regardless if it is designed to keep both populations in fear and suspician of each other. Fear has been used to control the masses ever since the first civilizations were erected. War is the glue that holds societies together...read your history and I think you'll find that this statement is probably a lot more true than you or others would like to believe.

Do a search on google for "The Report From Iron Mountain" and you'll be enlightened in a way you never thought possible! As General Smedley Butler said, "War is a racket!" and he definitely knew what he was talking about. Most of the conflicts and wars throughout history were not fought for the popular reasons that the history books would have us believe!

Think about it...Why did Jimmy Carter give the Panama Canal away to the Communist Chinese if they were really such horrible enemies? Why did Bill Clinton give our largest western port over to the Chinese? Both of these areas are of the highest strategic value to the United States...So why did these presidents just give them away to our "supposed" enemy?

Methinks something really odd is going on here! Maybe both the American and the Chinese people need to start doing some serious research on these topics, so as to find out what is truly going on?

Why did George Bush sign an agreement (without the knowledge or the permission of Congress) with Vicente Fox of Mexico and Paul Martin of Canada, which in the next few years, will create a "North American Union", exactly like the European Union, completely destroying the Constitution of the United States?

Why are they building a "super highway" called the "Trans Texas Corridor" through the center of the United States, which will slice the country in two? It's a massive highway that will start in Mexico and end in Canada, completely destroying the local infrastructures that were built on the "old" interstate systems, not to mention that King Ferdinand of Spain will control the "toll" rights to this massive twelve lane highway. None of the labor force, at least to my knowledge, is American. It is a foreign built monstrosity being built on American soil without the permission of the American people!

Why are all of these "things" happening, and right under the noses of the American people? Is it simply ignorance or something a bit more sinister?

You guys be the judge.

TG.

[Jamie C.]

Y'all keep up with the political BS and you're gonna get the thread locked.



J.C.

[Rachen]

Both sides fill the airwaves full of propaganda. I've got more than enough articles on the Chinese military buildup, speeches of various Chinese generals preaching on the destruction of the United States of America.
I hope I didn't offend you, tightgroups. I am a member of Sino American Friendship Association and Shanghai Exchange Students Association of NYC, preserving Sino American friendship is our chief duty. I hope I didn't get too political.
I didn't mean to ask come on? I was confused too. I apologize.

I actually have ORIGINAL footage of these generals' speeches, that is, before they were altered by a third party rabble rouser such as Tiawan independance. Over the past few years, Taiwanese agents have altered many political footage and videos, intending to raise hostilities between the US and China. How I know? Some of these agents actually operate on Chinese mainland, they sneak in with tourist visas, and our authorities arrested many of them between 1996 and 2003.

I don't want to get this thread locked either. We'll talk by private messaging.

[Rachen]

OK BACK ON TOPIC:D

As far as us here in the U.S. still finding unexploded Civil War ordanance like in my area Chancelorsville, Travillians, Petersburg, that is still a common find, & although I did not personally know Mr. White I have met him once or twice "I know for a fact at the Crater in Petersburg" a very passionate person about the historical finds that he has collected through the years & although this was tragic, he was doing what he loved.

I found some rusty solid shot around the Chancellorsville area a couple of years ago when my van got a flat tire as I drove through there. The cause of the flat was just some sharp stones on the ground, not any Civil War munitions lying around. But when I got out to inspect my vehicle, I found some curious rusty objects in the underbrush next to the road. I even picked them up, but they were solids, no fuse, no plugs, nothing. BUT I learned not to touch them if I find any more of them, I might just get a nasty surprise if I am careless with these things.

[tightgroups]

Rachen,

No brother, you didn't offend me in the least. I just wanted you to understand exactly where I was coming from. Us common people usually don't want to blow each other up...we leave that stuff to the maniacs that are running the whole show! :D

TG.

P.S.,

What happened to The White family has made me more careful and mindful of anything I may find on old battle fields or where ever. better to leave it alone if you think it might go boom!

[Cosmoline]

Let's try to stick to black powder people. This ain't the legal forum.

[tightgroups]

We've all gone off topic at one time or another...it's not the end of the world!