First LEO interaction while packing


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cpaspr
May 3, 2008, 02:53 PM
I left work last night around 8:15. Still light out. I had just pulled onto the highway and the car in front of me was only doing about 50. I checked the mirror, saw another vehicle a ways back in the left lane but it didn't appear to be going all that fast. So I signalled, moved left and stepped on it. As I passed the other car the one behind me seemed to come up real fast, so I scooted back to the right as soon as possible.

Well, about five seconds later my back window lit up all blue and red. Seems I had just pulled in front of a deputy sheriff. I signalled and pulled over. Shut the engine off, hit the emergency flashers and grabbed my wallet from my back pocket. Kept my hands on the steering wheel and watched the driver (there were two officers) come up the left side of his car and head around to my passenger side. I leaned over and rolled the window down about 3-4 inches for conversation, then put my right hand on the back of the passenger seat while leaving my left on the steering wheel. The deputy was very professional. I could see his partner standing at the right rear corner of the pickup out of my peripheral vision. He started out by telling me our conversation was being recorded. Told me he had pulled me over because I (in his words) almost hit his cruiser when I moved left, then didn't signal when I moved back to the right. I'll readily agree on the second part, because at that point I was more concerned about getting out of the way of the car that had just run up my tailpipe than with signalling, since I was well ahead of the slowpoke by then.

I'm not exactly how I phrased it, but I told him that I hadn't seen his car before pulling left. He truly may have been in my blind spot and the car I had seen as not going all that fast was actually behind his. And that when I saw his headlights move up so quickly behind me that I was simply trying to get out of the way quickly and didn't think to hit the blinker. He seemed to accept that, then asked for my license, registration and proof of insurance. Asked if this was my vehicle, to which I said yes.

Anyway, at that point he asked if I had any knives or guns in the vehicle. I said yes, on my right hip (under both a sweater and a jacket). At that point he asked if I had a concealed weapons permit, to which I answered yes, and pulled it from my wallet which was sitting on the seat. He asked if all the information was current. It was.

He then handed me back my info and said he was letting me off with a warning to check my blind spot better and to remember to signal. And one other thing. He said that I am required to inform an officer immediately in such a situation when I am packing. I didn't argue, and said something about they must have just changed the law and I appreciated the heads up, and that I'd be sure to do that if there were a next time.

My memory was that in Oregon there is no duty to inform. I checked again this morning. Unless they've changed the law just recently and handgunlaw.us (http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf, page 18) doesn't know it, he was wrong. I'm glad we didn't have to discuss it further, but it does cause me to wonder if anything has changed recently.

One other thing. He never asked to take possession (which is his right, while he has me stopped) or even see it. As I said, he was very professional about the whole stop. Never an indication how he felt about concealed carry. But I want to think the fact that he didn't write me a ticket on a double traffic infraction might indicate that he's in favor. I'm also glad he didn't push the "failure to inform" issue. I think he's wrong on it, but I'm glad we didn't have to go to court to prove it.

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ColinthePilot
May 3, 2008, 03:05 PM
I've always informed voluntarily. It puts the LEO at ease immediately, seeing that you are cooperating from the get-go. We do have duty to inform in TX if you have a CCW, even if you don't have you gun with you. According to the LEO I talked to, when they run your DL through the system, it'll pop up saying you have a CCW, and they don't like to be surprised like that.

Mr_Rogers
May 3, 2008, 03:16 PM
In Oregon there is no requirement to inform the officer you are carrying a firearm but I can see no sensible reason not to do so. In general, Oregon (and Washington) officers are great. Once you are out of the major urban areas they do not seem to have the hangups we hear about so much on the forums.

I even practiced a speech, which I have never had to use and that I will probably screw-up if the occasion arises. "Officer, I would like to inform you that I have a valid Concealed Handgun Permit and that I am carrying a pistol on my right hip. How would you like me to proceed?".

Living on the OR/WA border and having both permits is interesting. The regulations are just different enough to get you into trouble. You need to check your status as you cross the state line.

DoubleTapDrew
May 3, 2008, 03:16 PM
I haven't heard about any change in the duty to inform laws in Oregon. You could ask Kevin Starrett, the director of OFF (Oregon Firearms Federation) who is very on top of the Oregon laws and and sends out alerts related to any changes. It's pretty disconcerting that the people who are supposed to enforce the laws don't even know them.
I've been pulled over twice for speeding in the past 10 years or so and was asked once (when I wasn't carrying), and wasn't asked the time I was carrying, but neither told me there is a duty to inform, nor did the LEO who ran the CHL class I took.
I don't know if I should inform if I ever get pulled over again. I probably will hand them the CHL with the driver's license because it comes up when they run your info anyway.

buck00
May 3, 2008, 03:26 PM
One other thing. He never asked to take possession (which is his right, while he has me stopped) or even see it. As I said, he was very professional about the whole stop. Never an indication how he felt about concealed carry. But I want to think the fact that he didn't write me a ticket on a double traffic infraction might indicate that he's in favor. I'm also glad he didn't push the "failure to inform" issue.

Sounds like a pretty cool LEO. Yes, he was wrong about informing, but I think you were smart not to argue with him:

http://oregonfirearms.org/faq/

There is no law, statute, administrative rule or ordinance that requires this. Many "instructors" tell their students there is, or that it would be a "courtesy." But it is NOT required. In fact, we have heard from many people who DID tell police who stopped them that they had a CHL and found themselves dealing with very hostile cops who considered it a threatening gesture.


Just to add to the thread. I was pulled over yesterday (which never happens) in PA and based on the body language of the LEO (who was very professional) I think he knew I had a CCW. However he never asked about it and PA is a non-notification state. I actually was packing at the time (G30).

The entire time he was standing behind my driver door so I had to crane back to talk to him. Basically he had me covered- it would have been difficult for a perp to draw and turn on him and he could easily retreat and/or fire. So I was impressed with his professionalism. He seemed younger so maybe the academy training is still fresh in his head.

Should I have told him about my CCW? I don't have to in PA. Did it alarm him or anger him that I didn't say anything? Not really, he actually let me off lightly for going 15 over. I am sure this can vary from state to state and PD to PD.

So yes, LEOs aren't all raving anti-gun bad guys like THR members sometimes portray them. I think its the few bad apples that give them a bad name. Also, I think it helped I was polite, cooperative, and addressed him as "officer" and "sir" as opposed to arguing or getting an attitude with him.

You sound like you did ok in Oregon. ;)

Mr_Rogers
May 3, 2008, 03:44 PM
Excuse me this OT post but it is good to be able to say something good about your LEO's.

Because of the distances and the long straight roads in Eastern Oregon the numbers on speedo's tend to get a bit blurry over 55 mph, if you see what I mean. I left one small town at a good rate and after a few miles I noticed a car coming up behind me that was going like a bat out of hell. Sure enough, the flashing lights turn on, I stop.

Young officer gets out. "Excuse me sir, as you went through town I noticed you had a stop light out. Took me a long time to catch up with you to tell you. Have a nice day."

Dismantler
May 3, 2008, 04:12 PM
I think that if I am ever pulled over I will have my license to carry in my hand with my driver's license and hand them both over. That will leave no doubt in his/her mind that I am carrying, while not having to explain that I do have a license/CCW.

bogie
May 3, 2008, 04:12 PM
It's polite to tell 'em that you're packing at the beginning of any interaction. Cops are professionally paranoid. If they don't know, and you get out of the car, and they see a bulge, you might get a glock shoved in your ear, with a LOT of the tension off the trigger, until they figure out otherwise. I prefer to avoid that.

wally
May 3, 2008, 04:39 PM
Well I 'm sure a lot depends on what you did wrong, but in the 12 years I've had my CHL, giving it to the officer along with my DL even when not carrying (have to be disarmed on my drive into and home from work :( ) has gotten me out of a ticket 3 of 4 times.

I went to court and got a dismissal on the ticket I did get.

--wally.

springmom
May 3, 2008, 05:45 PM
Hey, look who's crawled out from under the income tax forms and is posting again!

Here in Texas we do have an obligation to inform. As I was going cross country last year, I crossed so many state lines and with different requirements, I had decided that if need be, I'd just inform from the get go. Unless you are carrying illegally, which I'm making the charitable assumption that nobody here would do, there's just no reason not to.

Glad it went well for you; and you showed a lot of tact with the comment about "guess they just changed the law".

Springmom

raveneap
May 3, 2008, 05:53 PM
buck00 ... "The entire time he was standing behind my driver door so I had to crane back to talk to him. Basically he had me covered- it would have been difficult for a perp to draw and turn on him and he could easily retreat and/or fire...."

Yup, when I first entered LE some 46 years ago, the first thing you were taught was always stay behind the driver's center post for exactly the reason you mention. Also, don't carry your flash light or any other gear in your gun hand.

Although Maine has no "need to inform" law, should I be stopped, I'd immediately inform the officer and follow his/her directions.

Treo
May 3, 2008, 06:25 PM
I had essentially the same thing happen W/ a CSP trooper a couple of months ago. I didn't argue W/him when he informed me about the "requirement" to inform, I said " I was unaware of any such requirement" and shut up.

I haven't been pulled over since but I make a practice of never volunteering information to cops, so I don't inform unless they ask me to step out of the car.

I think some cops just tell everybody it's a "requirement" because they think it makes their job safer.

I had people insist to me that a cop told them they were required to get some special "registration" form in order to sell a gun in Colorado. it's just a cop thing

Aguila Blanca
May 3, 2008, 06:36 PM
I've always informed voluntarily. It puts the LEO at ease immediately, seeing that you are cooperating from the get-go. We do have duty to inform in TX if you have a CCW, even if you don't have you gun with you. According to the LEO I talked to, when they run your DL through the system, it'll pop up saying you have a CCW, and they don't like to be surprised like that.
If you're in Texas and Texas has a duty to inform, how can you say you always inform "voluntarily"? Unless you regard "voluntary" in the strict sense of meaning you have a choice between obeying the law or ignoring it, I wouldn't call informing an LEO in a state that requires doing so "voluntary."

searcher451
May 3, 2008, 09:03 PM
Oregon residents are not required to inform LEOs in this situation. It might well be a good idea, but the law does not require it. The CCW trainers in Salem actually recommend that concealed carry license holders keep in their vehicles a copy of "Understanding Oregon's Gun Laws: A Guide to Gun Ownership in Plain English" by Kevin Starrett, the director of the Oregon Firearms Federation. "That way, if you get pulled over and an officer gets on you for not producing your carry permit, all you have to do is produce the book and ask him to show you exactly where in the law you are required to do so."

I've never been keen about this bit of advice, however; it's always seemed confrontational to me. It's not a good idea to challenge an LEO's authority, nor is it wise to make an officer look bad -- seems like a sure way to guarantee that ticket you are trying to avoid. Maybe the best thing is to drive within the speed limit and not get into the situation at all. :)

Thernlund
May 3, 2008, 09:33 PM
I've had many cops tell me this or that about some law or another. I pretty much just smile, nod, and then forget it. Cops are just people same as anyone. There are smart ones and dumb ones.

I'd ask a cop a "What would you do"-type of question maybe. But questions of law are for attorneys, not cops.


-T.

ttorion
May 3, 2008, 10:15 PM
If you're in Texas and Texas has a duty to inform, how can you say you always inform "voluntarily"? Unless you regard "voluntary" in the strict sense of meaning you have a choice between obeying the law or ignoring it, I wouldn't call informing an LEO in a state that requires doing so "voluntary."
In Texas you are only required to inform if you are carrying. If you aren't carrying there is no requirement to inform. Most folks volunteer the information out of courtesy if they aren't carrying.

HKUSP45C
May 3, 2008, 10:29 PM
We do have duty to inform in TX if you have a CCW, even if you don't have you gun with you. According to the LEO I talked to, when they run your DL through the system, it'll pop up saying you have a CCW, and they don't like to be surprised like that.

Man, I wish you'd stop spreading misinformation. There is no duty to inform if you don't have a gun with you.

If a cop or judge in Texas asks you for ID AND you're carrying a gun you must show him or her your CHL.

Though, it's true a cop (or judge) will see the info on your driving record ... if you're legally carrying you've told them ... if you aren't carrying why would you bring it up?

Rick O'Shea
May 3, 2008, 10:46 PM
I actually did this unintentionally, but it strikes me as an elegant solution to the problem: here in GA we have no duty to inform, but I keep my CCW license in the little picture window of my wallet behind my driver's license.

They always ask you to remove the DL before handing it to them, and the CCW then comes into view.

Now he or she knows, I didn't feel obliged to bring it up, and we can go from there.

highorder
May 3, 2008, 11:34 PM
edited.

nothing to see here.

Arrogant Bastard
May 3, 2008, 11:40 PM
We do have duty to inform in TX if you have a CCW, even if you don't have you gun with you.

I just took my CHL class last Saturday. The instructor was quite clear that the duty to inform only applies if you're carrying a weapon, but that he found that LEOs generally seemed to appreciate the courtesy regardless.

I would imagine handing over BOTH your CHL license and your driver's license is a good practice -- if nothing else, it lets the LEO know you are certified not a bad guy.

ziadel
May 4, 2008, 12:08 AM
I've been stopped quite a few times while packing. No requirement to inform laws, so I don't tell them. I would probably mention it if I was about to be arrested but other than that, theres a reason I conceal it. If you consider it good form to keep the general public from knowing you are packing then why share the info with the cops? They're just as stupid as the population at large because they're drawn from the population.

lvcat2004
May 4, 2008, 01:16 AM
^^you are drawn from the population also, aren't you??
;)
Why share the information with cops?? Because he is armed, and he is not a random person, and he has stopped you for a reason, and possibly suspecting that you are up to no good, and disclosing the fact that you are a law abiding citizen carrying a lawfully possessed firearm with a valid concealed weapon license, and not a felon, may put him somewhat at ease and allow you to get away without a ticket, or avoid being shot when you accidentally flinch, etc....isn't hat a good reason? :p

cpaspr
May 4, 2008, 02:10 AM
A couple of interesting comments have been made that I sort of picked up on, but didn't really think about at the time. He was young, probably in his late twenties. And yes, he stood behind the passenger side door pillar and leaned forward to see through the window. He stood in the safest place for him, even though his partner had the best possible position should an encounter go bad for them. I intentionally kept my right hand on the back of the passenger seat and my left on the steering wheel where they could be seen. The one thing I forgot to do was turn on the cab interior lights, but I forgot in the process of getting my wallet out, the emergency flashers on, the engine off and my hands in plain sight. And yes, I'm pretty sure they knew I had a permit before even approaching or asking anything. Cross checking the plate on the truck to my driver's license told them that.
_____

Rifleman888 - It is relevant because while it's a first for me, others have yet to have such an encounter. Some here have had multiple encounters. I took each of the steps I did because of what I learned here, from others discussing similar encounters and asking the forum members what they did wrong - or right. Having these events posted from time to time brings them to the top of the post list. It doesn't make sense to search for and dredge up a similar event from several years ago and go "me too - last night". No one learns anything from such a post. And being stopped by police while carrying, even legally, can be nerve-wracking, simply because there really are a few cops out there who will make your life miserable if at all possible. Knowing how to be able, to the best of one's ability, to diffuse such a situation is a good thing.
_____

Rick O'Shea - I keep the signed organ donor card behind my driver's license. I'm much more likely to have to take the license out for check cashing or other ID purposes than to show it to law enforcement, so I intentionally put the permit behind the donor card. No sense alarming someone who might otherwise see the permit and possibly freak out with a "he's got a gun!" response (whether I'm packing or not).
_____

Lvcat2004 - No, he's not a random person, and yes, he stopped me for a reason. But suspecting that I might be up to no good is a major leap of imagination. It was a traffic stop, for traffic infractions. And the fact that he can already see that I have a permit tells him I'm one of the good guys and that this particular traffic stop is probably going to be a real safe, easy one. And knowing that in advance, and by having me respectfully respond to him, he was able to be generous and let me off with a warning.

Treo
May 4, 2008, 03:00 AM
QUOTE: "Why share the information with cops?? Because he is armed, and he is not a random person, and he has stopped you for a reason,<snip> or avoid being shot when you accidentally flinch, etc....isn't hat a good reason? "


Actually no none of the above are good reasons. In Colorado there is no statewide database of CHP holders (some counties have databases, but not mine) & there is no legal duty to inform, also no permit is required to conceal a weapon in your vehicle.

I don't O.C. ever the only way the cop is going to know I'm armed is if he asks me , or he pats me down ( hasn't happened yet but if I were asked to step out of the vehicle I would inform).

Given the above why do I want to A. give the cop one more issue to deal W/ during the stop. or B. pontentially make the stop last longer if the cop decides to disarm me and run my serial number.?

To me telling the cop causes more problems than it solves, I'm not breaking any laws by carrying & it's not germane to the stop, the cop is no safer knowing I'm armed than not knowing I'm armed. If anything I'm the one who's less safe. Bottom line it's not the cop's business. Isn't that a good reason not to mention it?

coloradokevin
May 4, 2008, 06:33 AM
So yes, LEOs aren't all raving anti-gun bad guys like THR members sometimes portray them. I think its the few bad apples that give them a bad name. Also, I think it helped I was polite, cooperative, and addressed him as "officer" and "sir" as opposed to arguing or getting an attitude with him.

Yep. A little courtesy goes a long way with me, and many other officers. We deal with the best of the screaming, whiney, immature folks in society all day long... Thus, someone who is polite makes us feel extra polite too :) It's just human nature.


According to the LEO I talked to, when they run your DL through the system, it'll pop up saying you have a CCW, and they don't like to be surprised like that.

Our system is also like that, and it is nice to know in advance. Honestly, telling the officer might save you some time on a traffic stop... By finding out that you are a legal CCW holder, I've also thereby determined that you aren't a felon, and likely are not wanted, and likely not carrying 20 kilos of coke or a dead body in the trunk (no guarantees in life, but that information certainly tells me a bit about someone!)

Given the above why do I want to A. give the cop one more issue to deal W/ during the stop. or B. pontentially make the stop last longer if the cop decides to disarm me and run my serial number.?

Honestly, I'm just curious, has that ever happened to you? I'm just trying to figure out why any of us LEO's would waste the time to run a serial number on a weapon that was being legally carried by a CCW permit holder... Sure, I run numbers on guns that 'bangers are carrying, but that's an entirely different situation. I (personally) have no inclination to run the numbers on a gun that is being carried as a legal CCW weapon.

Besides, as soon as I run your DL, I'll know anyway... Like I said above, keep in mind that it could also help the stop to go faster if you were to inform. It all depends on the officer, but things could go either way for a number of reasons.





Still, I'll give you a personal story (from the other side of the equation) just so that you know that I know where you are coming from:

Lets face it, we all know that some cops are better than others (even those of us who are on the job). I was stopped once for driving 11 mph over the speed limit on a country road while en route to work (in full uniform). I don't expect any special favors because of my position, but I was still appalled by this stop...

The officer walks up, immediately unsnaps his holster and begins drawing his gun on me, yelling "what's all that hardware for?". I'm sitting there thinking "is this idiot kidding?" I'm in a full police uniform, I've got my hands on the wheel, looking forward, my large gear bag in the back seat that says "XYZ Police" on it, and a police ribbon on the back of my car... perhaps it's time for the decafe coffee buddy.

Anyway, I was polite, and gently informed him that I am a police officer, and offered to show him my department ID. He gets mad that I said this, stating that this was obvious to him, and demands my information (DL, POI, Registration). I comply.

He returns to his car and writes the cite, taking 45 minutes to do so! There is no way that it is reasonable to take 45 minutes to write a simple traffic cite; I can do one in five minutes or less, and the traffic guys are faster than me. It can certainly go over five minutes, but 45 minutes is unacceptable.

My point is: Some guys are trouble in every profession, and there is little that any of us can seem to do about it. But, most of the LEO's you'll encounter are good folks, and you'd probably enjoy their company outside of their jobs!

Suffice it to say, we aren't all out to get you!

jakk280rem
May 4, 2008, 07:16 AM
yeah, we got it pretty good here in oregon. i dont ever remember having a bad leo eperience ever. when some of the other members post a bad experience, i just shake my head, wonder how it could have gotten so bad, and thank god that i live in oregon.

Treo
May 4, 2008, 10:12 AM
QUOTE: " Besides, as soon as I run your DL, I'll know anyway... "

Not mine you won't I live in El Paso County, Terry Maketa is very pro 2A & interprets the state law forbidding registration of gun owners to mean that CHPs don't go on that computer data base you have in car. some county sherrifs add names to the data base not all.

QUOTE: "Honestly, I'm just curious, has that ever happened to you? "

Nope, it's never happened and I'm still not legally required to do so.

The reaction of that one cop ( who really was decent in all other respects) was enough to make up my mind. I can't think of any good reason to interject the fact that I have a gun into a traffic stop.

Given that the agency I'm most likely to interact W/ (CSPD) is institutionally anti-private citizen gun ownership, I see no reason to hand them an excuse to hassel me. and that has happened.

Even the reasons you've given are for your convieniance not mine.

mhinagoya
May 4, 2008, 11:21 AM
Gentlemen.

I have met a number of LEO's and socially known many in my life. My kid brother was a sheriff's officer while he was in med school.

Without exception, it has been my experience that the outcome of a 'meeting' with a LEO is determined by the attitude of the driver.

A couple of months ago, I was on my way to work (very early in the morning) and a HyPo lit me up. I immediately pulled over, killed the engine, turned on the flashers and my interior lights. I rolled down my window and had both hands on the window sill when the officer walked up. When he got to my door, I said "Good morning officer. What may I do for you?". He seemed a bit shocked but recovered quickly and asked for my license. At that point, I informed him that it was in my wallet in my left hip pocket and I asked for permission to get it, which he granted with a smile.
The rest of the stop was uneventful and very comfortable for both of us. Seems that I had a tail light out.

The officer treated me as if he were talking to an old friend and that is how we parted company.

These guys are just people (as has been previously stated). The nature of their profession is such that they interact with the best and the worst of society. When stopping someone, they will decide which category the driver is in and the outcome of that decision is usually up to the driver. Regardless of how some people feel, LEOs aren't universally stupid and if you are working hard to accommodate them, they will notice.

There is nothing difficult or complicated about this. Do everything you can to make their job pleasant. It costs you nothing to be friendly and considerate.

I'm one of the good guys and I make every effort not to keep that a secret.

Bill.

papajohn
May 4, 2008, 12:42 PM
I talked to a lot of cops as a reporter back in my radio days, and asked one sergeant I knew pretty well the best way to respond to being stopped at night in a vehicle. His response was to turn on the inside light, put your hands on the steering wheel, and wait. Nothing made him more nervous than someone who was thrashing around in the car in the dark, hiding or grabbing god-knows-what. I later became a dispatcher for his department, and later went on the street myself, and always remembered that info. While working in radio, I also repeated it on the air often, trying to spread the word.

These days, I don't get pulled over much, but I still adhere to his advice. Once the officer has approached the vehicle, I'll tell him I'm getting out my wallet, and hand him the CCW permit with my DL. Most of the time the officer informs me why I was stopped, asks me to correct the problem (or stop driving like my @$$ is on fire) and it's over. No cop I know likes surprises, and yes, polite is the ONLY way to go, no matter what his attitude. As many loonies as cops run into, they'll know pretty quickly you're not a threat, which is exactly what they want to know first. Allay that fear, and 99% of the time you're on your way.

"Common Courtesy" and "Common Sense" are no longer common, but they are still essential in many situations!

PJ

BMacklem
May 4, 2008, 01:18 PM
I don't post here often, and I have several stories about LEO's pulling me over, but none of them have gone sour at all.
I drive a delivery truck (24 foot straight truck) that is quite obviously a comercial vehicle.
I can't count the number of times that I have been pulled over for moving violations.... lights burned out, not having the DOT number stickers applied, a general safety inspection, etc.etc.etc.
The last time I was pulled over though, I was doing absolutely nothing wrong.
I am not bashing any LEO's by any means, as every one I have been pulled over by have been courteous, and professional, but this last one still makes me shake my head.

I was heading along a 55mph zone on the way to my next stop, and was following a landscaping pickup for a few miles, I was driving approximately 52-53mph, as my spedometer is a little off, and along came a state trooper in the left hand lane. I had to slow down for the landscaper as he turned off the road, and the LEO slowed down a hair as well...he then pulled behind me and proceeded to pull me over, his reason? "Was there a reason you were going so slow?, it seemed like you didn't want to pull past me there.."
Bear in mind that it was overcast, and there had been intermittent rain for a few miles, and the road was wet, so in Wisconsin you aren't allowed to drive the full speed limit, except in ideal conditions. I don't speed anyways....ever, it's just not worth it, and I get paid by the hour.
So I was doing everything RIGHT, and was pulled over for no apparent reason.
He did an informal safety check...lights, brakes, turn signals...etc, and then proceeded to give me a 30minute writeup showing that "No violations found".

Now Wisconsin is a no-carry state...meaning we cannot carry concealed...or for that matter openly (not without possible disturbing the peace, or disorderly conduct charges), so I was not carrying anything illegal, but had I been, I don't know if this kid would have responded politely to me had I been carrying.

Just goes to show the level of a few bad apples in the crate, and that you can apparently be pulled over even when you aren't doing anything wrong at all.

FranklyTodd
June 4, 2008, 11:38 AM
Just t-boned a guy on the way to work this mornng with an LCP .380 in my pocket (his fault). This is in a "conservative" suburb in Ohio (a must-inform state).

I called dispatch, told her about the accident, told her about my CHL and pistol. She was obviously taking down info, but didn't seem worried. She just said - I'll send someone out. So I offered - want me to lock the pistol in the glove box? She said, ok, sure. :confused: I don't know what I expected, but it was going too smoothly - maybe the cop would be a jerk about it... So far it was apparent I was more concerned that I was armed than the cops! :rolleyes:

So he arrives, as per the law I start my schpiel that I have a CHL - he waves me off - "I'm not worried about that." Nothing else mentioned the rest of the encounter - I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure if I'd just left it in my pocket, he still wouldn't have cared. I would have been sitting in the back of his cruiser filling out paperwork armed! :p

Anyway - pretty boring story - which I'm very happy about. Most people are resistant to change, and cops are just people. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe cops are getting used to the fact that a % of the population they interact with is going to be packing, and it's ok...

Ok, gotta go, I have online car research to do (is it bad that I'm hoping they total my 10yr old car?).

Stay safe (in your cars, and with your firearms!)
FT

romma
June 4, 2008, 12:56 PM
I'm not obliged to mention it in CT, and I am not saying anything unless specifically asked.

Up here it can open up a whole other can of worms.

Maia007
June 4, 2008, 10:30 PM
As you know, you are not required to report that you are carrying in the State of Oregon.

But so what.

The objective here, for the both of you, is to get thru the stop, take care of business, with the least amount of needless stress for you both.

It is a simple matter to hand your CHL to the LEO along with the ODL and to answer any questions he might have concerning the weapon truthfully. He doesn't know what sort of person he is dealing with. And being up front about it gains you some instant credibility and identifies you as someone that is most likely responsible...despite your traffic infractiion.

You either get a ticket or you don't and then you are both on your way.

Those who insist on stridently asserting their rights (in any situation) are itching for a fight. And there is only one way that will turn out.

MT GUNNY
June 4, 2008, 10:30 PM
I cant remember where I saw it, maybe some one can help ?
I read, in MT you dont have to inform the officer, yet Ive been told you do buy a officer(go figure).

FranklyTodd
June 4, 2008, 11:17 PM
I never really thought about it, as it is recorded on our license in Ohio, AND there are severe penalties for not informing.

However, assuming that wasn't true...

If I was in a state where I knew the cop didn't find out when he ran my plates or my license (somebody above said their state was that way), AND I was confident in the concealed part of my concealed carry, maybe I shouldn't say anything.

It wouldn't be a "rights" issue, it would be more a "path of least resistance" issue. If the officer is just writing you a run of the mill ticket, and not having you get out of the car, wouldn't telling him "I have a gun, just thought you should know" stress him out more? The encounter would be over in a flash - with him none the wiser...

Honestly I totally come out on the side of informing, whether required to or not, just looking at the other side.

Scratchshooter40
June 5, 2008, 12:14 AM
I spent several years as an investigator with a South Georgia Police Department. While there is no requirement to advise in Georgia, it is a great way to show respect and avoid the entanglement of discovery, if you are carrying concealed. The one item that hasn't come to light is that when you advise the office that you're carrying and you present your Concealed Weapons Permit, he/she can be assured that they are dealing with a member of the public who has been "vetted" and is clean. Go ahead and search, no incidents of law abiding CWP holders committing crimes with their carry weapons. Most of our crimes are committed with our right foot on the skinny pedal and you can do more damage with an F150 Supercrew than you can with an automag.

Templar223
June 5, 2008, 02:06 PM
Only when required do I mention that I'm armed.

If it's not required and I see no reason to volunteer it, I won't.

Here in IL, it's only an invitation for a very prolonged stop.

Hence, when I've been pulled over here (and I'm carrying - legally), I have never mentioned it.

I encourage others to do the same.

John


ETA:

Without exception, it has been my experience that the outcome of a 'meeting' with a LEO is determined by the attitude of the driver.

Lots of good advice in this thread, but this probably summarizes it best.

If you enjoyed reading about "First LEO interaction while packing" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!