[ChrisAHF]

Got into a conversation about hunting with my Biology professor. I said I want to go deer huntung in the fall but want a slug barrel for my mossberg first. He said why bother, I got a doe at 80 yards last year with a smooth bore. After this statement I obviously had some questions. I asked what kind of scope he used and he said one of those low end red dots. To top it off he was also shooting offhand. Not sure how I feel about this. Of course im not going to say anything about it with finals coming up next week...:eek:

[m38shooter]

Nobody believes it, but my mom's boyfriend has taken two at that range with the built in sights.

I can't say as I blame people for not believing it, either. I watched one of them and saw it with my own eyes and still don't entirely believe it.

[1911Tuner]

Possible. I've shot 10-inch steel plates with slugs through an old 500 Mossberg Marinecoat with a 20-inch barrel using the front bead at a hundred yards...consistently.

[Eric F]

I shot a 3 gun match about 4 or 5 years ago one stage had you shooting standard idpa targets off hand at 100 yards with slugs 2 targets 1 hit each. You were allowed to have only 2 slug rounds loaded with no reloads. in my 5 man "squad" there was only 1 miss which was mine......go figure. So I can totally beleive this especially with a red dot.

[XavierBreath]

"People are still falling into the error of bragging about shots they should not have taken. It is not how far away your animal was, but how close you were able to get. Generally speaking, no shot attempted beyond 300 meters on a game animal should be exemplified. If you can get closer, get closer. Possibly the old Indian custom of counting coup might be revived. If you can get close enough to a white tailed deer or a Rocky Mountain bighorn to slap him with the flat of your hand, you have really achieved the remarkable."
Jeff Cooper

[rcmodel]

Not BS!
Smoothbore barrels with Foster slugs will easily group well enough to kill a deer at 80 yards, or even 100 or more.
It's not uncommon to see 3" groups at 50 yards. (6 MOA)

It's entirely possible if the guy had been practicing at those ranges and knew where his gun was hitting.
(And could estimate or measure range that good.)

Or, he could have just got lucky!
Regardless, I'd believe him if it was me.

rcmodel

[Hanzerik]

You can get rifled slugs for shooting through a smooth bore right? Why would you think shooting a deer size target at 80 yards is that difficult to do? 80 yards is not that far.

Now I must say that I have never fired a shotgun with slugs, so I may be wrong in thinking that a shotgun firing slugs should be able to keep a decent (Minute of Deer) group at 100 yards.

[1911Tuner]

It's entirely possible if the guy had been practicing at those ranges and knew where his gun was hitting.

Also possible that it was just "zeroed" for it. My hits on the steel plates are done by looking straight down the top of the receiver at the bead, with no barrel visible. Put the bead in the center of the plate...and squeeze.

1-ounce slugs really knock the plates windin'.

I've also got a Liberty double Coach Gun that...with just the bead...converges the slugs on target...2 inches high at 50 yards.
The holes are nearly touching.

[bnkrazy]

I'd say that's pretty believable. I do know my dad has taken a lot of deer with rifled slugs in a smooth bore (Rem 1100), at or beyond 80yds with just the bead sight.

[jimmyraythomason]

80 to 100 yard shots are very possible with slugs from smooth barrels and around here, fairly common. FWIW,"Calling B.S." is not a good way to start a conversation. It automatically puts folks on the defensive.

[jakk280rem]

i watched a gentleman shoot 2 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards standing using nothing but a front and mid bead. he was using sabots but i dont know if it was a smoothbore or rifled barrel.

[briansmech]

you hunt your way, let others hunt theirs.


our poor ancestors of such eons ago... or maybe 25-35 years ago.... couldnt afford $1500 rifles with $1500 scopes, or even $500 rifle scope packages, which would've cost some bucks to relative economys.

i learned on iron sights. hunting is hunting. it's like golf. some people need to spend thousands on gear and courses where they document every shot and record every hole. /respect much. others just like to get out and play the game. an old club and a hole, and all day long to chase the ball. /respect much.

have alot more distaste for people that can't respect one or the other, really.

[230RN]

I don't find that shot remarkable at all. I used to plunk ten inch rocks with regularity at about that distance with Irving, my ancient Mossy, with a select-a-choke barrel set to ever so slightly tighter than cylinder and just a bead front sight. That one ounce slug, still going at, what, 1100 f/s?, would sure make them bounce back a foot or two, if it didn't shatter them.

I sure didn't want to take a ten shot bench rest group with it, though. My shoulder would not have taken it.

Nevertheless, I can still kick myself in the butt for not buying a rifled slug barrel with front and rear sights for it for about $90.00 a couple of years ago.

Now, they're about $150.

Still wouldn't want to use more than three or four rounds to sight it in though, that's fer danged sure. Owie.

Thirty or forty years ago, when the Grasslands were still the Grasslands, and 230RN was still 230RN, it was perfectly safe to bounce one of those slugs along the ground and watch the puffs of dust progress along for what, six or seven hundred yards before the dirt-puffs got too small to discern with certainty.

Sorta like skipping rocks on a lake.

Yeah, I know, you're going to come down on me for doing such a "dangerous" thing, but it was perfectly safe back then.

[Wheeler44]

Chrisahf; Don't piss this guy off. You are lucky to have a Prof. that shoots and hunts. You might ( if you are lucky) get an opportunity to learn more than just Biology from this guy. Think about it.

Wheeler44

[Eightball]

It's doable. I would consider it hard, but doable, and the only reason it'd be hard is because it's not what I'm used to doing--I live in a rifle state, as opposed to a shotgun state. I'm sure people across the river in IN have practiced to do just that (since it's a shotgun state).

[jnyork]

Probably not BS at all, sounds like a guy who knows what he's doing and practices at it. I know a guy who hunts with a smoothbore flintlock musket and does OK.

[Crunker1337]

If he practices a lot, then I don't see why not.
Still, that is some fancy shooting. O.O

[mp510]

I know somebody who took a deer at 100ish or just a little more with a 12 gauge smoothbore shotgun, bead sighted, using a simple rifled slug. I would be hesitant to call BS.

[markk]

It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

[Sistema1927]

He said 80 yards, not 800.

Has he said anything else that would lead you to think that he has a problem with the truth?

[rero360]

completely doable, I took my first doe with my mossburg 500 with smoothbore and rifled slugs and bead sights at a dead run at right around 50 meters, good clean kill. I took my button buck with my 11-87 with a rifled barrel and sabots and iron sights at a distance of 125 to 150 meters across a gully. again one shot kill, DRT. but I was also laying in the prone with the shotgun laying across a stump, where as the first kill was standing offhand.

[Jeff F]

Possible. I've shot 10-inch steel plates with slugs through an old 500 Mossberg Marinecoat with a 20-inch barrel using the front bead at a hundred yards...consistently.

Same here, and at one range I shoot at they have a 18 inch gong at 200 yards that I can ring pretty consistently ounce I get the elevation down and thats standing with rifle sights.

[owen]

doable.

[RoadkingLarry]

I know that there are still people that regularly take game at that range and beyond with smooth bore muzzle loaders. If you practice and if the gun is consistent and you know where it hits not a problem at all.

[catfish101]

Shooting offhand doesn't matter much sometimes either. Some people with curtain guns are very steady. I have a Shiloh 1863 that I can shoot offhand almost as well as on a bench. I have some guns that I am not very steady with.

[Byron Quick]

Not just possible but probable with iron sights if he has been practicing with the shotgun and can see.

Buddy of mine killed a buck at around ninety yards with a rifled slug using iron sights. And he wears glasses and his usual hunting firearm is a rifle.

He moved to Ohio close to two years ago and killed a very big buck his first season up there. I don't know what the range of that one was but smoothbore shotgun barrels with modern rifled slugs are better than you apparently know.

[bogie]

And if you've ever examined the terminal ballistics of a one-ounce lead slug, if it hits anywhere from backbone to lower ribs, Bambi is gonna drop.

[ashtxsniper]

Not that hard to do with practice.

[scythefwd]

Very doable. I watched a watched a guy on the Peoria, IL swat team hitting his target (which had a BG holding a handgun pointing at the shooter) 3 out of four times in the hands with iron sites and a 12GA mossberg with rifled slugs at 100Yards. There is no way he could have been picking the hands as a target, but he was shooting center of mass ( You could see the dark outline, but not the filler lines, I was using a spotting scope about 20 ft. back) and could have easily taken a deer at 100 yards. Hell he was shooting a 3 inch group with em. I don't know if he was just lucky that day, or if he was an exceedingly rare shot, but I personally witnessed that one. He shot from a standing position.

[Chindo18Z]

Doable. I've harvested a moving spike buck at a measured 63 yards using a 12 GA slug from a Mossberg 500A (18.5" Cylinder Bore/Bead Sight). Easy shoulder, heart, lung shot. Wouldn't have even considered it if I weren't confident in slug performance and accuracy at that range. I use 75-80 yards as my consistent outer limit with that weapon.

[Burt Blade]

How did he establish eighty yards as the distance? I have noticed that most people are woefully unreliable judges of distance. WAG by sight is what most people use. Few enough can do an accurate and _repeatable_ pace count on pavement or cut grass, let alone out in the wood or weeds.

[CBS220]

What's unusual about that shot? It was a good one, but certainly not an incredibly great shot.

[Katana8869]

I'll throw in with those that say that this is a very doable shot. I hunt hogs with an 870 using smoothbore barrel with rifle sights and rifled slugs. I would consider that distance easily within range of my gun.

Granted it would be harder with a bead sight, but I learned a long time ago to never underestimate what a man that knows how to use his gun can do with it.

[DougDubya]

Offhand does not mean he didn't aim or have a good stance/position. And he did have a red dot sight. Plus, a 12 gauge slug is a skosh more forgiving of shot placement on deer-sized animals.

[SSN Vet]

BS??? Why?

because your prof. is a better shot than you? ;)

[Justin]

At a tactical shotgun match a couple of weekends ago, I was able to hit 3 out of 4 IDPA-sized steel gong targets at 75 yards with a shotgun that belonged to someone else.

No optics other than one of those fiber-optic front sights.

And I consider it fairly pathetic that I didn't get 4/4.

[MCgunner]

I've also got a Liberty double Coach Gun that...with just the bead...converges the slugs on target...2 inches high at 50 yards.
The holes are nearly touching.

At 50 yards, my Spartan coach gun puts the right barrel a little left and the left barrel by the same margin to the right. At 80, I'd have to use a little more Kentucky windage, but it groups 2" at 50 with either barrel, pretty danged good. Only reason I bother with it is because I feel this gun is useful for hiking and use as a "combination" gun by shooting slugs, gives you versatility. I don't plan on actually deer hunting with it, have rifles for that. But, as general outdoor guns, coach guns are REALLY versatile, well, if you can choke 'em. Mine came with five chokes. 20 gauge ain't got a lot of umph past 50 yards, anyway, so the gun is a bit limited in range. But, it has a bit of a notch at the rear which just sorta cradles the bead and shoots dead on for elevation when you cover the target with the bead. Pretty neat.

To the OP, it's time for some range time! :D

[Caimlas]

"People are still falling into the error of bragging about shots they should not have taken. It is not how far away your animal was, but how close you were able to get. Generally speaking, no shot attempted beyond 300 meters on a game animal should be exemplified. If you can get closer, get closer. Possibly the old Indian custom of counting coup might be revived. If you can get close enough to a white tailed deer or a Rocky Mountain bighorn to slap him with the flat of your hand, you have really achieved the remarkable."
Jeff Cooper

I'm going to have to disagree with Mr. Cooper's statement, without disagreeing with the meat of what he was actually trying to say...

If you can make a shot, and it fells the animal, I'm fairly certain that the length of shot is what's being bragged about.

Being able to brag about your woodcraft is something else entirely, and while they're not mutually exclusive, they're not necessarily complimentary, either.

An 80-yard shot with a smooth bore shotgun + a red dot does not sound all that impressive to me, and it seems reasonable to me that an experienced shooter should be able to make it, offhand or otherwise.

Rifling didn't add so much to firearms that anything before it is useless. The bigger improvements have been in sights, and shooter accuracy.

Let's just say I'd not stick my head up and go "neener neener!" at someone trying to shoot me with a shotgun from 200 yards. :P

[PJR]

I've practiced with my smoothbore 870 and Brenneke slugs at 100 yards plus. I'd prefer to keep my shots within 50 yards but have spent enough time learning what the gun can at longer ranges an 80 yard shot is very possible on a deer sized animal.

[chas08]

Very doable, in fact I did it a few years ago with an 18.5 inch cyl bore barrel on an 870 with a 2.5 x shotgun scope and a Breneke slug on a one-time Illinois hunt I got lucky enough to get drawn for. Admittedly the scope may be an advantage over the red dot. But I practiced at ranges out to a 100 yds till I was confident I could do it. If I were going to hunt with a shotgun for deer more often, I would invest in a rifled barrel, they increase accuracy and extend range, but I wouldn't let "not having one" keep me from going hunting.

[waterhouse]

You did well to bite your tongue. As other mentioned, a very makable shot.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't go buy a slug barrel, but before you do you may want to try practicing with the barrel you have. You might be surprised, and it could save you some cash. Or, you may be disappointed with the results, and then you can go get a slug barrel, but it won't cost you much to go shoot some slugs through your barrel to find out.

[627PCFan]

Old guys can pull some disgustingly good shots sometimes :)

:what:

[noskilz]

I agree with the OP. Story is BS! . . . No way the guy is a professor . . . :) :neener:

[icecorps]

Believe him.

But get yourself a slug barrel anyway.

[Fred Fuller]

The OP should get out more, maybe. Hang around with some shotgunners even. 8^)

lpl/nc

[Sergeant Sabre]

I put a doe down a few years ago with an 18" smooth bore and 2x scope shooting Winchester Super X slugs at 80 yards. No problem whatsoever. A chip shot, even.

[1911Tuner]

Old guys can pull some disgustingly good shots sometimes

And some of'em can do it with disgusting regularity...

[Marshall]

I'm curious as to why you think it's BS? Help me understand why?

[Wheeler44]

Quote:
Old guys can pull some disgustingly good shots sometimes
And some of'em can do it with disgusting regularity...

And that right there is why I ride in the middle seat of the pickup when I'm ridin' with old guys, some of that might just rub off.....

[Snarlingiron]

Nope, not BS. It just may be possible that the prof has more shotgun fu than yu.

[FEG]

It's doable. I would consider it hard, but doable, and the only reason it'd be hard is because it's not what I'm used to doing--I live in a rifle state, as opposed to a shotgun state. I'm sure people across the river in IN have practiced to do just that (since it's a shotgun state).

You are correct. That is a fairly typical shot for whitetail in SW Indiana.

[22LongRifle]

I don't think I saw a rifled barrel in deer camp til I was in high school.

My dad's favorite "deer" shotgun (it was his only shotgun) was an Ithica 37 Featherweight, 12 ga, with a 30" full barrel. I saw him buy the cheapest slugs Wally World have and "sight" it in the evening before season every year. The target was a 12" paper plate at 85 yards. All the shots were within 4" of the middle, always.

Don't count out the smoothbore.

22lr

[Cosmoline]

With an unrifled Slugster barrel I was consistently able to hit the black at 50 yards. The key is choosing quality slugs.

[axeman_g]

do able.... here in NJ we practice slugs at 50, 75 and 100 yds all the time. I can hit 10 steel plates regularly at 100 yrds with a mossy 500, 18" barrel, smooth bore IC, and fiber optic bead. Rifled slugs drop about 4" at 100yds for my gun.

[jmr40]

I do not hunt with slugs but have practiced at 100 yards with my 20" barreled 870 with rifle sights and an IC choke. It is easy to hold 5-6" groups at that range.

[proud2deviate]

The first time I shot my 870, I was patterning it with 00 buck and rifled slugs. At the end of the day, I had 3 slugs left, so I decided to screw around with them.

Went to the 100 yard range, and set up a 9" paper plate. Walked back to the firing line, and let my 3 slugs fly from a standing position. Walked downrange to get my plate, and was surprised to find three great big holes in a five inch spread.

I haven't been able to do that again since:rolleyes:

Gun is a Remington 870 Police Magnum, 20" IC barrel, with rifle sights. Gallon jugs at at 50 yards are cake. Federal's Tru-Ball slugs do make a difference, in my experience.

[Dave McCracken]

Plausible.

There used to be a Redneck Jamboree I attended for a few years.A group of friends getting together and having fun, shooting and eating game dishes. One event was shooting at a 10" steel gong target at a MEASURED 110 yards, Most folks could get frequent hits offhand with slugs from smoothbores after a few sighters.

Another group of friends used a pony keg to mark the 80 yard line at a casual range/shooting pit. Most of us could hit the thing most of the time and get lots of hits on a similar keg at 130.

[ImARugerFan]

Just sounds like a good shot, not an unbelievable shot. I'm thinking about switching back to smoothbore because of the high cost of sabots in my rifled bore now.

[ChrisAHF]

Thank you for enlightening me. I dont know what I was thinking, but I forgot to take into account rifled slugs. Thats why with those factors it seemed a bit unlikely. For the record I wasent literally going to call BS on my professor. I was just skeptical.

[Der Verge]

I have to believe your prof. I shot a doe at 120yards (lazered) off shooting sticks with a 28" rem choke barrel, and a vent rib for sights. I took one the year before with that same combo at 65 yards, and the year before that at 110. It is quite possible, though a cantilever fully rifled barrel with scope and sabot slugs is more accurate.

[1911 guy]

I shoot Winchester brand rifled slugs, the bargain bin ones at 15 shells for 5 dollars, and find they print within two inches of the bull at 50 yards with the I.C. tube screwed in. I'd feel comfortable shooting out to around 75 with my setup. Those pumpkin balls drop pretty fast past that. I also use a cheap $30 Tasco red dot on my slug gun.

It ain't the arrow, it's the indian.

[benEzra]

Shotgun slugs are aerodynamically stabilized (like an arrow), not spin-stabilized like rifle and handgun projectiles are. A rifled slug barrel imparts a very gentle spin in order to improve consistency, but rifling is not necessary for them to fly true.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Sorry, have to correct this:

Shotgun slugs are aerodynamically stabilized (like an arrow), not spin-stabilized like rifle and handgun projectiles are.

TRUE, generally.

A rifled slug barrel imparts a very gentle spin in order to improve consistency, but rifling is not necessary for them to fly true.

Not exactly; as a broad statement, mostly false, I believe. Depends on the slug in question. Long saboted slugs most definitely require rifling to fly true. Short, low-SD foster type slugs don't require any rifling. Doesn't hurt, and may help a little, but they don't need it to be stable (stay front-forward and fly consistently).

[Geno]

Huh. I'da thought you were calling "BS" on the allegation that a professor actually hunts. We're a rare breed. :neener:

Now, if the man were claiming to employ that same shotgun for 200 yard varmint-duty, then you could legitimately call BS. But, to assume he could hit a 14" X 16" kill-zone on a deer at 100 yards, doable.

[mswestfall]

I shot a 10 year old Remington 1 ounce rifled slug through the same gun I use for Trap. The dear was running (not fast) from right to left at 75 yards. I stood up in my tree stand shouldered my Citori and shot just as I would when shooting low gun in Sporting Clays. I hit the dear in the esophagus and aorta. The dear did a face plant and bled out in less than 30 seconds.

My hunting "friend" said "I thought you said you know how to shoot that gun. How cum you shot it in the throat?". I told him that I'm used to 1,180 fps rounds; these 1,400 footers just get there a little quicker.

I would be confident shooting that combination of gun and ammo out to about 100 yards.

[redneck2]

About five years ago I shot a coyote with my 870 and 3" copper solids at 140 measured yards. I've got a Remington rifled barrel and a 1.75x6 B&L scope, and I was shooting supported.

If you have doubts, I'll PM the phone number of my friend that witnessed the shot.

FWIW...I sight in at 125 yards so it wasn't exceptionally difficult.

If you look at the ballistics, a modern rifled slug has about the same flight as a .45-70.

[B.D. Turner]

Many deer have fallen to a Foster slug out of a smooth bore.

[mio]

not even unusual

[Flopsy]

Last week I hit a silhouette at 50 yards with a 20-inch smooth bore with just the bead sight.

So...sure, why not?

[BigGunsMoreFun]

I think most folks don't know them meaning of true hunting anymore. I find a shot like this less than remarkable even if it is true. :rolleyes:

A true hunter can get close enough to an animal for a one shot, quick and merciful kill.

I think it is a truly lazy person that might want to think about retiring from the hunt when you have to either

a) Put food out and wait until the animal walks up to eat and kill it while sitting on their fat behind because they are too lazy to really hunt. :mad:

or

b) Take crazy, wild ass pot shots at an animal more than 150-200 yards away where you only wound the animal and it gets away and suffers and dies from infection days later. :cuss:

There are very few true hunters out there any more. That is one of the reasons I quit hunting. Many people in the woods that call themselves hunters today are a disgrace to the sport. :cuss:

Old Colonel Cooper would probably return from the dead if he could see what's in the woods that calls itself a hunter these days. :(

There are some that truly know how to hunt but they are few and far between these days. :eek:

Molon Labe,
Joe
:cool:

[nollsp]

You all are missing the OBVIOUS!

Are none of you stunned that a college biology professor hunts?

Seriously...we nothing escalated about his claims. He may be a guy you want to shoot with...sounds like he may really know his way around a shotgun...always good to get in good with a professor or two.

[scythefwd]

I'll print an sheet of paper at 75 all day with my mossberg 500 smoothbore. I don't like my spread, so I don't use it to hunt, but I can take a deer at that distance if i want to.

[Phil DeGraves]

I have a Browning Auto-5 that I shot a three shot cloverleaf at 50 yards offhand with slugs through a smoothbore barrel and rifle sights (and a really good trigger). No scope. Taking a deer at 80 yards with a smoothbore barrel and a red-dot? The equipment is capable as long as the operator is. Not a problem. Might be difficult with a bead sight though, at least for me.

[LTB15J]

weak sauce. i once hit a coconut at 214 yd with a smooth bore m500. i was using winchester silver box slugs. nobody believes me, but thankfully i had a friend there who confirmed it through a spotting scope



all i know is i never did it again. but i dont care it was a funny shot

some people on the line said they saw the slug traveling down range. i wouldnt be suprised, you can often see them on a bright day against a light background.


as far as sabot slugs. they can fly straighter than you think compared to a rifled slug. i bought some for S&G one time and wanted to see how they would perform. managed a respectable grouping at 30yd

i guess people always think its impossible til they see it done eh

[rondog]

OK, I'm not a hunter, but I'm curious..... with rifled slugs, you need a smoothbore barrel, and with sabot slugs, you need a rifled barrel? Is this right? Or can you use either type of slug in either type of barrel?

[hksw]

OK, I'm not a hunter, but I'm curious..... with rifled slugs, you need a smoothbore barrel, and with sabot slugs, you need a rifled barrel? Is this right?

Generally speaking, that seems to be the unoffical rule. However, I've heard from folks who have gone both ways (sabot through smooth/rifled through rifled) who have said to have had no problems with those combinations.

I've easily shot ~10"X10" plates at 60-80 yds with rifled slugs through a smooth bore (modified choke) on my 1187 at plate shoots using Tru-Glo clip-on rifle sights. Was kneeling with the gun resting on a saw horse though. Damn thing gets hot pretty quick.

[LTB15J]

a sabot slug through a standardized choke, smooth bore barrel will have no problems firing. so you could say you can use both rifled and sabot slug effectively;

as for a rifled barrel, generally only sabot slugs should be shot through them.

then there are those "smooth" non rifled slugs that can be shot out of either type of shotgun barrel.

[Dave McCracken]

Ron, for best results, use "Rifled' slugs in a smoothbore, sabots in a rifled barrel.

Trust me...

[Flopsy]

Am I going to have any problems if I fire sabot through my smooth bore? I mean am I going to damage something, or am I just going to lose accuracy?

[WNTFW]

Flopsy,
You might cause some guy here to have a fit.
Just kidding,
WNTFW

[rondog]

Ron, for best results, use "Rifled' slugs in a smoothbore, sabots in a rifled barrel.

Trust me...

Thanks! That's what I assumed. Doubt I'll be doing it anytime soon, I don't even have a 12 gauge anymore. Just curious.

[Dave McCracken]

Flopsy, no. Accuracy will degrade, perhaps greatly. Shotguns often write their own rules.

[357wheelgunner]

Got into a conversation about hunting with my Biology professor. I said I want to go deer huntung in the fall but want a slug barrel for my mossberg first. He said why bother, I got a doe at 80 yards last year with a smooth bore. After this statement I obviously had some questions. I asked what kind of scope he used and he said one of those low end red dots. To top it off he was also shooting offhand.

I really don't see the big deal, 80 yards offhand, with a slug, on a deer is nothing. My 20" IC 870, with me behind it, can put slugs into a paper plate over and over and over again at 50 yards shooting quickly, and if I aim it's no issue to tag the same at 100 yards.

I think that a lot of new shooters think that if you don't have a scope on a weapon, and the most rediculously overpowered round available, that you can't hunt with it. I notice a lot of kids getting their first deer gun, and it's a .300winmag or 7mm magnum or .338 or something like that, and it will never see a set of iron sights in its existence. To top it off the new "hunter" will probably go fire 5 rounds, once a year, just to make sure his scope is sighted in. He'll do it on sandbags, like every year, then wonder why he gutshot a deer 50 yards away when he had to shoot it offhand.