[Gun Geezer]

My 13-year old daughter has consented to learn to shoot:).

I have a Remington 1100-LT 20 that is too heavy for her. IT is a light gun (hence the LT) by she is just to tiny and has limited girly type upper body strength.

Any suggestions for a very light (5lb) 20 gauge with (preferably) choke tubes? I am thinking about a single shot with 22" barrel?

[Funderb]

ithica featherlight

[Thernlund]

http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/kidshooting/youth-firearms.htm


-T.

[ArmedBear]

That's kind of a catch-22.

A 5 lb. 20 Gauge single shot will kick like a mule. Pretty unpleasant at the range or practicing with a thrower.

But she'll be able to swing it.

We have a youth shooting program at my club, and we have a bunch of 11-87 Youth models. They have 21 or 22" barrels and a short buttstock. They work great. They're not ultralight, and they absorb recoil.

My observation is that a slightly-built person (usually a tiny woman or young girl or smaller boy) will lean back to counterbalance the forward weight of a longer gun. Their upper bodies are so light, I think it's as much or more about the balance of the shotgun-upper body combination than it is about strength.

Of course, this really messes with their shooting, as it's a lot easier to shoot well with a slight forward lean, and damn near impossible to swing well while unsteady and leaning back from the waist.

Keep the LOP short enough, and the barrel short enough, and you don't need a super-light gun.

That said, the LT-20 is not all that light. It weighs about 7 lb. That may have been light back in its heyday, but my recent Beretta 12 Gauge 28" steel-framed over-under weighs the same thing. (My old 1100 Magnum 12 Gauge weighs over 8 lb., so the LT was relatively light 30 years ago.)

Ithaca Featherweight would be a poor choice. It isn't heavy, but it's long. Same problem as you're having with the 1100. And the foreend sits WAY out there. I doubt she could hold it without straightening her arm out -- also pretty much a guarantee of poor shooting.

Consider Browning's version of the Ithaca design. This one has a 22" barrel, a 13.25" LOP and a foreend that's extended back.
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=011B&cat_id=012&type_id=225

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/images/012225m.jpg

A gas-operated semi does absorb recoil. Gallery of Guns has a few 11-87 Sportsman Youth models. They're more expensive than the Browning BPS Micro above, and the Sportsman is one of the nastiest guns Remington has ever made. (I have an Express, myself, and like it, but the Express is, at least, cheap.) But it's a near-perfect youth gun, and you won't care if she drops the thing. Rough finish, plastic stocks, but the gun does work.

What's your desired price range?

[Smitty in CT]

I really liked the 20GA AL391 Urika Youth, but the price around here is $800 - $900, I couldn't justify that kind of a price....

I had my LBS order me a Mossberg SA-20 Bantam for my 9-year-old son. Mossberg's web-site lists the gun's weight at 5.6 lbs. It was $365, it's been 3 weeks and I still don't have it yet, as soon as we get it I will tear it down, post pics, and give it a full review...

It's not made by Mossberg but by http://www.armsan.com/en_home.htm in Turkey. From everything I've read the gun is a copy of Beretta A30x series... We'll see how close of a copy it is once it arrives...

The Smith & Wesson 1020 looks to be the same gun with some cosmetic changes.

http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/SA20s/75770.jpg

[ArmedBear]

Yeah, if Mossberg's SA-20 actually exists, looks like a good choice. Let use know when it arrives, Smitty.:)

Like I said, while the 11-87 Premier was really nice, the 11-87 Sportsman is a nasty gun, and expensive for what it is. Unless the Armsan has serious problems with early parts failures, I'd get that (especially for half the price of the Remmie).

[Smitty in CT]

...Yeah, if Mossberg's SA-20 actually exists...

I'm beginning to think the same thing!! :what: I was hoping to have it for turkey season, but there's only two weeks left down in PA, where we hunt...

The shop actually had a 28" Field model that sold pretty quick, he took my deposit and said he could get me one..... my fingers are crossed...

[ArmedBear]

Another option: the Stoeger Uplander SxS Youth.

MSRP $369.

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_uplander.php

Or the Condor O/U Youth, MSRP $399

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_condor.php

[JT'sDad]

I bought a 20ga. Remington 870 youth for my wife. It is light and she does not like the kick. I love it however. Short barrel, 3 chokes, it is my do everything shotgun now. Even shot a pig with it last week. I really like that it was less than $300 out the door. I would love to find the Camo youth stock set for it if anyone has any leads. :)

[Virginian]

Get a youth gas operated autoloader. Teach her how to shoot a shotgun correctly. Do not let her try to hold it up and aim it. Throw it up, point, shoot, drop it down. I taught two slightly built daughters. If they don't try to hold it up all day, it will be a whole whole lot easier.

[Smitty in CT]

I got a call from my dealer, he says he found one!! and it will be delivered tomorrow!!!

I'll post some pics tomorrow night after I pick it up....

[oneounceload]

a 28 gauge 1100 will be her best bet - BUT the ammo, unless you reload will be expensive..

[Gun Geezer]

I had considered a .410 or 28 gauge. But as noted they are rediculous expensive.

Regarding the 20ga: I was thinking that 7/8 oz shot at 1150 fps would not have too much recoil, especially if I added a super recoil pad.

How much did I want to spend: Depends. I doubt she will be able to shoot it more than a couple of years, unless I could add LOP with spacers. Thus I wanted to stay around or below $350. More preferably less.

Has anyone experience with a H&R breakopen "Pardner". Light, short, and inexpensive too. A guy at work thought it might be good for a starter and then get a nicer auto when she can heft a more standard weight gun. Thoughts?

[ArmedBear]

The H&R's work fine, actually. I just think it will kick her like a mule. Virginian is right about a gas-operated semiauto.

Keep it short. Do not buy her something like an adult 1100 28 Gauge. It still won't balance if she's slight of build.

[oneounceload]

Just remember - LIGHT = MORE RECOIL....a good well maintained gas gun, like a Beretta 303 will have less actual and less felt recoil than a light single barrel shotgun.....recoil is simple physics, the heavier the gun combines with a light load = less recoil.....

go to a range and see what fits her...a gun that doesn't fit, no matter how heavy or light, will kick the bejeebers out of someone and it won't be fjn, and they won't want to do it again

[Gun Geezer]

I found a shotgun recoil calculator at
http://www.rfgc.org/reload/recoil_calc.htm

using this calculator: 15 gr of powder, 7/8 shot, and 1100 fps the difference between a 5-lb shotgun and 6-lb shotgun is 1 ft/lb of energy. That is about a 10% difference. Not sure that would play out in real life for a 13-year old girl.

[QuakKillz]

winchester 1300 youth
rem 870 youth
mossberg 500 youth

they all kick like crazy, they are light.... my 4'11'' 120lb wife shoots my moss 835 12 better than the moss 500 youth 20 we have........

[Virginian]

Step up and go $500 for a Model 1100 LT or LW 20, don't dog it, and you will get the same as you paid for it if and when you sell it. If you find one with a cut stock, you can always get a standard stock set later with no problem if you decide to keep it. If you get one with a standard stock in good shape, don't chop it, buy a youth stock online or from Remington, and then sell the stock later.
The think about guns that are popular, as in over 'X' million made is there are lots of parts and accessories about.

[Owlnmole]

It sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I would have gone with the origininal idea of a youth-size 20 gauge single-shot and just start her off with very light loads. Simpler manual of arms, safer for an inexperienced shooter.

H&R Topper Jr. (black wood, nickel receiver, blue barrel) or Topper Jr. Classic (nice walnut, all blue) or Pardner Compact (plain hardwood, all blue) are some options. All have 22" modified choke barrels and recoil pads in 20 gauge, all will cost well under $200 dollars, all will last a lifetime.

Get 'em while you can 'cause Remington told Marlin to tell H&R to close the Gardner, MA plant. They SAY they're still going to make them, but then Remington has those Spartans made in Russia, too....