[greyhound]

Am I the only one that sees this "Rap Culture" of "keepin it real" as a danger to gun rights in this country?

And this is NOT about African American kids in the inner city, it seems that ALL kids everywhere are falling for this garbage. Though I must say there is nothing so stupid looking as a suburban white kid wearing his hat sideways with baggy pants and saying "Yo, check it" every 5 seconds.:D

The problem as I see it comes down to two things.

1. the constant crave of attention or as I call it "look at me" syndrome.
The loud talking, the horrible music in the car stereo so distorted you can't hear the words, the constant attempts to frighten normal adults with ridiculous "gang" behavior?

2. the need to be seen as tough and fearless. Any slight is a call to action. No weakness must ever be displayed.

Now I know, we've been through this before: Elvis was going to ruin America, punk rockers were the Anti-Christ, etc. But I have NEVER seen such a lack of concern for the future compared to today as in the hip-hoppers. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like they have no ambition other than hangin out smokin' blunts.

And I'm only in my early 30s so I remember when it started: 1989, NWA, "Straight Outta Compton".

These are the clowns that are finally going to get our guns taken away if they don't grow up fast and stop scaring the soccer Moms.

[Keith]

These are criminals, or stupid people aping the mannerism and dress of criminals.
In any case, they should be treated like criminals by the rest of us. Don't associate with them; be suspicious, be wary, don't allow them on your property or place of business.

Keith

[HBK]

Keith nailed it.

[Lone_Gunman]

2000: The end of time must be near, because rap music is the devil's work.

1985: The end of time must be near, because punk rock is the devil's work.

1965: The end of time must be near, because this hippie music is the devil's work.

1955: The end of time must be near, because rock n roll is the devil's work.

1945: The end of time must be near, because beatnik music is the devil's work.


quote:

"These are criminals, or stupid people aping the mannerism and dress of criminals.
In any case, they should be treated like criminals by the rest of us. Don't associate with them; be suspicious, be wary, don't allow them on your property or place of business."


This is a timeless comment that applies to rappers, punk rockers, hippies, rock n rollers, beatnicks, and any other group of bohemians that threatens the social status quo.

[Keith]

The difference between beatniks, hippies, etc, and the hip-hop crowd is that this new culture glorifies criminal behavior and violence.

I don't recall any fifties or sixties songs advocating rape and murder. The worst that can be said is that they glorified personal drug use.

Hip hop songs enshrine rape, murder and violent criminal behavior of all types, and many of the major players in that crowd have either been arrested for violent crimes or been murdered themselves.

There's a big difference between Bob Dylan and Tupac Shakur.

Keith

[one-shot-one]

:D
one thing for sure, we are one day closer to the end no matter how you look at it.
:p

[TheOtherOne]

I know plenty of people that strangers would jump to say they are leading the "gangster life" based on their clothes, music, language, car, etc.... but when it comes right down to it, they are hard working people just trying to support their family like most everyone else.

[SaintofKillers]

All make good points but I think that the problem is that pop culture is gotten to a point where it is the only important thing in young peoples lives, I too am in my early 30s, I just dont understand how someone can look at a rapper such as (50 cent) who wears a kevlar vest onstage and glorifies the fact that he has been shot 9 times-(evidently someone didnt do the job right the first 8 times). When I was growing up i listened to Ozzy, B Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and a host of other socalled satanic bands, I also read a lot of those evil comic books (where I got my screen name) none of this pop culture ever said anything about slappin hoes and puttin a cap in some cops ???. I really believe that a lot of our problems started after MTV went from music videos to showing activist programs. The free love baby boomers are now the ones running this network and are trying to keep that culture alive that anything goes. It really is sad when a 16 year old cant tell you who Thomas Jefferson was but can tell you where, when and what he was doing when Tupac got shot. He/She can also tell you what is going on with J-lo and Ben Affleck but couldnt find Iraq on a map. I think that we are one step away from the fall of society into total anarchy, all we need now are gladiators in a stadium killing each other for our pleasure and we are there.

[Keith]

I know plenty of people that strangers would jump to say they are leading the "gangster life" based on their clothes, music, language, car, etc.... but when it comes right down to it, they are hard working people just trying to support their family like most everyone else.

I believe you, but I'd be a fool to ignore the impression such a person is attempting to convey - he's CHOOSING to impersonate a criminal and I'm merely accepting him at face value. What more could you ask for?

I'm going to be suspicious. I'm not going to hire you or even allow you to loiter in my place of business. And I can't imagine why someone would be surprised or disappointed at being treated like a criminal when they dress like and ape the mannerisms of a criminal.

If it's any consolation, I do the same thing when I see men wearing conservative suits and carrying briefcases approach my door. I assume they are Mormons or salesmen, and as such I tell them to go away.

Keith

[Mark Tyson]

"Mack the Knife", as recorded by Bobby Darrin in 1958(released in 59)

A song about gruesome murder and corpse disposal

==============

Oh, the shark, babe, has such teeth, dear
And it shows them pearly white
Just a jackknife has old MacHeath, babe
And he keeps it, ah, out of sight
Ya know when that shark bites with his teeth, babe
Scarlet billows start to spread
Fancy gloves, oh, wears old MacHeath, babe
So there’s never, never a trace of red


Now on the sidewalk, huh, huh, whoo sunny morning, un huh
Lies a body just oozin' life, eek
And someone’s sneakin' ‘round the corner
Could that someone be Mack the Knife?


There's a tugboat, huh, huh, down by the river dontcha know
Where a cement bag’s just a'drooppin' on down
Oh, that cement is just, it's there for the weight, dear
Five'll get ya ten old Macky’s back in town
Now d'ja hear ‘bout Louie Miller? He disappeared, babe
After drawin' out all his hard-earned cash
And now MacHeath spends just like a sailor
Could it be our boy's done somethin' rash?



Now Jenny Diver, ho, ho, yeah, Sukey Tawdry
Ooh, Miss Lotte Lenya and old Lucy Brown
Oh, the line forms on the right, babe
Now that Macky’s back in town


I said Jenny Diver, whoa, Sukey Tawdry
Look out to Miss Lotte Lenya and old Lucy Brown
Yes, that line forms on the right, babe
Now that Macky’s back in town.....

============================

So sit down, relax, and sing along with the kids.

[TheOtherOne]

believe you, but I'd be a fool to ignore the impression such a person is attempting to convey - he's CHOOSING to impersonate a criminal and I'm merely accepting him at face value. What more could you ask for?

I'm going to be suspicious. I'm not going to hire you or even allow you to loiter in my place of business. And I can't imagine why someone would be surprised or disappointed at being treated like a criminal when they dress like and ape the mannerisms of a criminal.
Yeah I'll agree that it's your right to be suspicious, I guess just like it's anyone elses right to be suspicious that white males with a shaved head and a Ford truck hate black people.

Check out the post below. I know some of the people on their and, going off the descriptions above, they would be considered part of the "rap culture". They are far from criminals and just worried about the same kind of things as those on here are.
http://www.layitlow.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=59133

[Kaylee]

for the most parts.. kids being kids. Dumb kids perhaps.. but kids. This really caught my attention though:

But I have NEVER seen such a lack of concern for the future compared to today as in the hip-hoppers. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like they have no ambition other than hangin out smokin' blunts.

Dude, you just described most of my early-90's GenX highschool classmates. Well.. minus the pot far as I know, but when the BRIGHTEST fish in the pool are making a point to do as little as possible and start clubs like the "Society for Lackidasical Acquisition of Computer Knowledge" or whatnot.... things might look bleak at the time.

But hey... so far so good. :)

-K

[Black92LX]

i am 20 and in full agreeance with greyhound. i admit that when i was younger i was in the whole gangsta mindset. thankfully i have grown out of that ignorance. unfortunatly many people my age and older haven't. i see nothing good coming from this gangsta persona. in this rap culture there is an utter disregard for lawfulness and just living as a decent citizen. The rappers like to bash the cop cuz they are all a bunch of crackas (i always thought that term came from the saltine crackers since they are white, but not the case). The cops are only after the rappers and wanna be because they have done something wrong. now if they were involved in their community to help bring the young kids out of the ghetto. or making the ghetto a better safer place then maybe the cops wouldn't be after them all the time. the ghetto wasn't always a ghetto, and doesn't have to remain a ghetto if they people living there were involved in helping the community.

Being from Cincinnati and having the riots a few years back. there is a huge eveidance of this. the people that live in the poor areas from town want the city to do something but want it all to be handed to them and the people living there aren't willing to help. so as long as people aren't willing to help pull themselves from the gutter but expect to be pulled out by someone else. this society is just going to sink deeper and deeper into the pit due to the laziness of a part of the population.

[Panache]

I think the biggest difference between today's youth and mine or my parents youth is the total lack of disrespect and deisregard for authority of any kind. Sure, as kids we thought we knew it all. But when it came to manners, we knew when to have them. It's as if the kids today have none.

How many kids today do you hear calling an adult - Mr. so and so, or Miss so and so... I don't hear any. They all call them by their first name. When I was a kid that was rude and unheard of.

Remember in the early 80's when the schools implemented the strategy of feminizing boys because they wanted them to be more respectful of girls? And eveyone "won" whether they came in first or last in the relay race, tug of war, or whatever.. simply because they didn't want to "offend" the ones who lost! And what do we have now? A bunch of boys who have less respect for the female than ever before. And girls who learn to man bash even before they know a man. Plus, a bunch of boys that don't know the first thing about fishin', huntin', or guns period! Every sit-com is a smartassed "comedy" that portrays the parents as buffoons and the kids as the smart ones. I grew up on Leave it to Beaver and Father Knows Best. Both had family environments and well rounded parents. Remember Ozzie & Harriet? Wholesome entertainment.

When I was a kid, women were thought of as ladies, and it was okay to compliment them on how nice they look. Today you try that and you'll find yourself standing in front of Human Resources for sexual harrasment quicker than your head will spin. It's screwed up people. And until we kick the living daylights out of the liberals in our society the sooner we will get back to the way things should be.

I read on the back of a book the other day a statistic that floored me, but it is oh so true. ---- More white families today are living like the black families did in the early 1960's.

Can you say White Trash?

[benewton]

Culture :confused::confused: :confused:

[ravinraven]

Here's a bit of rap that I think is OK and I'm so old that my social security number is written in Roman Numerals.

ravinraven


========================


Remember Mr. Congressman, the rights you vote,
Away on the Congress floor.
Were won by the people years ago,
With blood, bullets and war.
Remember Mr. Congressman, the rights you vote,
Away on the congress floor.
We the people will take back again,
With blood, bullets and war.


Back in seventeen and seventy-six we’d had enough tyranny,
So we threw the bloody British and all their crap into the sea.
They tried it again in eighteen twelve,
But they ain’t tried it any more.
Monkey with our liberty,
You get blood, bullets and war.


Hitler and Tojo and all that trash each tried it in their own turn.
We smashed them down one by one and watched their nations burn.
But now we’ve got a worse enemy,
Right here in our own land.
Liberty is a-fadin’ fast.
I’ll say it while I can.

Remember Mr. Congressman, the rights you vote,
Away on the Congress floor.
Were won by the people years ago,
With blood, bullets and war.
Remember Mr. Congressman, the rights you vote,
Away on the congress floor.
We the people will take back again,
With blood, bullets and war.


Oh the gun control and the loser lobbies, all that anti-liberty crowd.
You’re paying too much heed to them. They’re screaming too damn loud.
If you keep a-voting with that trash, you ain’t a-gonna be around.
We’ll wake up lady liberty and she’ll put you in the ground.


So, remember Mr. Congressman, the rights you vote,
Away on the Congress floor.
Were won by the people years ago,
With blood, bullets and war.
Remember Mr. Congressman, the rights you vote,
Away on the congress floor.
We the people will take back again,
With blood, bullets and war.

[mtnbkr]

Every sit-com is a smartassed "comedy" that portrays the parents as buffoons and the kids as the smart ones. I grew up on Leave it to Beaver and Father Knows Best. Both had family environments and well rounded parents. Remember Ozzie & Harriet? Wholesome entertainment.


Oh, I don't think it's that bad. I dont' watch much TV, but the few recent sitcoms I've seen tend to portray the kids as buffoons, or at least not as savvy as the parents. That George Lopez sitcom and the one with Damon Wayans come to mind. The families look pretty normal to me (father, mother, kids).

Chris

[longeyes]

You have to ask yourself which is the greater danger, the Soccer Mom who
wants to sanitize and safety-proof everything in life, or the Hip-Hopper,
who wants to profane and destroy everything? Or do they somehow require
each other? One wants too much Civilization; the other too much Chaos.
Maybe the whole culture is out of joint?

I think a lot of young men have grown up without fathers and without
values. On top of that they are bored silly. We need to find more
realistic ways to channel their will and energy while honoring their
need for risk and challenge. The choice ought to be better than turning
out warped warlords or feminized family drones.

[greyhound]

kids being kids. Dumb kids perhaps

I think this is exactly the point I was trying to make. This "Rap Culture" goes beyond kids bieng kids. "Keepin it real" means you never change.
For those that really embrace the pop culture of this, "gettin paid", "hos", and going around promoting the gang life is "4eva".

Dude, you just described most of my early-90's GenX highschool classmates

As well as most of my Kurt Cobain inspired college classmates. Heck, me too! But deep inside we knew it was only a phase, and when we had to we got a haircut and looked presentable. We might have still listened to the music, but we had some ambition and desire to do something with our lives. As SaintofKillers posted:

All make good points but I think that the problem is that pop culture is gotten to a point where it is the only important thing in young peoples lives

We all remember how important it was to be cool and popular. Personally, I was always in the middle: not the really cool crowd, but not unpopular either. Oh, how I pined to be with the "in" crowd. But I never let it consume me like it does for the hip hoppers. Something is wrong with this lifestyle, and as Keith says:

The difference between beatniks, hippies, etc, and the hip-hop crowd is that this new culture glorifies criminal behavior and violence.

And yes, there were songs like "Mack The Knife" but in no way did they inspire a whole culture. (The Late-50s "Rebel Without A Cause" phase in no way inspired pop culture like rap music; 99% of the kids probably still wore button downs and got crew cuts.)

And the argument that Rap is the same as Punk, Beatnik, Rock & Roll, etc; in none of those genres was rampant law-breaking advocated (maybe Beatnik with the drugs. And maybe Punk with anarchy, but that wasn't straight out crime for profit.) We have never had a youth sub-culture that advocated get-all-you-can-steal before.

The idea just ocurred to me, but maybe Rap is the perfect blend of Liberal feel-goodism with the criminal underground. And that can be pretty enticing for an impressionable young person.

[Spot77]

To address one of the initial concerns about this culture glorifying gun violence.....I think it is unique in that respect and it is detrimental to our rights as gun owners. The responsible gun owner vs. the idiot thug wannabe is out of balance as far as being in the limelight. When I was in my teens I was heavy into the punk rock scene, and nobody approved of that. HOWEVER the gun violence was never a big part of the scene, and it was certainly never used as a marketing tool for the bands to sell records (maybe it was in rare occasions, but it never caught on like it has with these new scenes kids are into).

Let's face it; at this point it is our responsibility to promote responsible gun ownership and to break the bad stereotypes usually given to gun owners if we wish to continue having our gun rights. When the limelight is always on the thugs, people will assume that THEY are the majority of gun owners, not the fine people like THR members.

Take somebody shooting. THE RIGHT WAY.

Be responsible, but be vocal.

[capt_happypants]

Longeyes, the rise of the rap culture is a direct outgrowth of an over-feminized society.

Note the hyper-masculinity of the gang culture: guns, violence, knives, "respect," "dissing ho's," outrageous displays of weath. Much of this culture stems from males who are overwhelmingly raised by single mothers, with no input from positive male role models. Males are drawn to power and violence - the key is to direct that interest into harmless activities (sports, video games), or impose some sort of code to control outbursts (miltary, police).

In the suburbs, the boys may not be raised by single mothers, but their upbringing is designed to purge all traces of masculinity. The testosterone-fueled mayhem of rap has a huge appeal to teenage boys - it's a complete Foxtrot Uniform to their feminized upbringing.

Soccer moms don't go on a 72 hour crime spree, carjacking and shooting people, and killing a complete stranger for kicks.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/C80F173668F02C5086256D8400322D9F

Hope that link works.

[AZTOY]

Why is it allway the music?

I listen to metal, death metal:evil:, punk , grung , glam, classic rock ,rock & roll ,country and some rap.


It not the music it the way the people act to the music.

Now the rap culture is about be a gangsters and live like as a gangsters.
As long as people have the gangsters mineset there will people acting like gangsters:rolleyes:

Hopefully it go away, just like ripped up jeans, flannels and mullets:neener:

[zahc]

Hip hop songs enshrine rape, murder and violent criminal behavior of all types

All hip-hop eh? Or some hip hop? Or what? I can't stand statements like this. What kind of hip hop have you been listening to?

[Lone_Gunman]

Where is a libertarian when you need one?

[MeekandMild]

I don't think the problem is the music, but rather the idea of developing yet another deviant subculture which has mutual hostility to the rest of us.

Rap produced a splinter group which walled off a number of Americans so they are not able to effectively communicate with the non-rappers. Yet they expect non-rappers to treat them normally. It causes the rappers to dehuminize non-rappers and vice versa.

Call this just another shibboleth of post industrial America. :rolleyes:

[Soap]

I am a fan of rap music, I treat it like a fishbowl. I look but I definitely don't swin. And capt_happypants is dead on.

[Skunkabilly]

I like rap, but the rap culture IMO is filled with idiots. Gun culture has its own charlatans as well....:banghead:

What's wrong with 'checkit'? I say it all the time :o

Keep it real,
Skunk-Funk

[Atticus]

Cocky Italians with ducktails, and zoned out hippies who comtemplated the reality of daisies, are a far cry from a culture that seems to generate gunfights on streetcorners, and breeds teenagers who don't give a crap that their errant bullet just killed a 3 year old kid next door. It's hard for this disco generation/new wave oldster to understand. I don't want to understand it - I just hope it goes away SOON. And to stay on topic- YES I do think it is a real danger to our rights as law abiding gun owners.

[Mike Irwin]

Music is a reflection of its time and its audience.

It doesn't create the audience, it only is an expression of the audience.

The Gangsta Rap we're hearing on the radio (if you bother to tune it in) is only a reflection of the drugs and high crime rates in those cultures.

It's not the music that's the problem.

It's the crime that's the problem.

[natedog]

As a freshmen at a highschool located in an almost all white, upper middle class neighnborhood, I know of this first hand. It's ridiculous, seeing my peers going around with their pants on their knees, with a giant chain, a hat to the side, and big watches and saying stuff like, "Fo sho". "Sheeit" "Fo real". I ask them why they talk like that and act like that and I get, " Don't hate the playa hate the game" or "Yo dogs we gotta playa hata ova here". But then they ask me why I listen to 80's punk rock and metal...

[Gray Peterson]

the key is to direct that interest into harmless activities (sports, video games), or impose some sort of code to control outbursts (miltary, police).

We got the latter already. As for the harmless activities, with video games, you have these charlatans like David Grossman running around saying video games turn kids into killer. BS! I was playing CounterStrike at 17 years old. It didn't turn me into a murderer, and neither did UT.

Charlatans like Grossman ignore the real cause of school mass murder: forcible school compulsion and mass group bullying.

[TheOtherOne]

Music is a reflection of its time and its audience.

It doesn't create the audience, it only is an expression of the audience.

The Gangsta Rap we're hearing on the radio (if you bother to tune it in) is only a reflection of the drugs and high crime rates in those cultures.

It's not the music that's the problem.

It's the crime that's the problem. http://e4u.consoleradar.com/happy/1197.gif

art mimicking life

[Don Gwinn]

1. No, just because a kid says he's "keepin' it real" does not mean he'll never change or grow up. You've never heard of a "sellout" before? Kids need to be part of a small, elite crowd that's in the know. They need to believe they know something the rest of us don't. Thus they have to condemn anybody who grows up and moves on. When I was a kid, I had a shaved head, an earring, dressed all in black and combat boots, wore the beaded necklaces, and a few times even did really smart stuff like paint my fingernails black. (The time we met our new, extremely hot blonde student teacher and the first thing she noticed was my black fingernails cured me of that one. :D )
My little sister dressed about the same way. When I went off to college, I slowly devolved toward low maintenance. Long hair, beard, t-shirts and sweaters, jeans, boots. No jewelry. I started to look more like a farmer or a fisherman than a punk. I was still listening to the same music and reading and writing the same poetry (though I had acquired some new tastes to go along with it) but by my sophomore year my little sister was calling me a sellout. She was still dressing like a punk, but she was never too interested in the music or the poetry. :D
Nowadays she dresses roughly like most people her age. Getting married, getting a job, and growing up took their toll.

2. This stuff about music and youth culture goes back a lot farther than Elvis. Why was Socrates forced to drink hemlock, again?
And does anyone remember what "decent folk" thought of Beethoven when he was still alive and making music? How about Stravinsky?

3. Yes, there is a big difference between Tupac and Bob Dylan. There's also a big difference between Will Smith and Jim Morrison (the guy who was thrown out of Whiskey A Go-Go for screaming "KILL THE FATHER! **** THE MOTHER!" as he sang "The End," a song that is at least in part about murdering your parents, not to mention Riding the Snake.

4. When Iron Maiden was in the process of recording Number of the Beast, they were involved in a traffic accident one day. They hit a van, but luckily no one was hurt. To their surprise, the van turned out to be full of a priest and a bunch of nuns, who proceeded to kneel in the roadway and pray for the souls of the band. When all that was straightened out and the vehicle had been repaired (coincidentally about the time the song "Number of the Beast" was being finished up) the bill came to 666 pounds.
The band's manager flatly refused to pay until the bill had been changed to 667. :D
That has little to do with this topic, but it's a great story.

[Don Gwinn]

One other thing to keep in mind is that one of the things that makes an adult look silliest to kids in a music scene is judging the music without understanding it. It may not be great art, but if you haven't really sat down to listen and think about it, it's probably not what you think, either.

Examples:

1. "Suicide Solution" Ozzy song about resisting suicidal thoughts as a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but blue-hairs across the nation thought Ozzy was subliminally ordering their grandkids to commit suicide (rather than telling them not to yield to despair, which is what the song is actually about.)

2. "Don't Close Your Eyes" I remember this one as another anti-suicide song wrongly denounced as leading kids to commit suicide. The lyrics implore a young person not to close his eyes before the singer can reach him--closing his eyes being the final step in succumbing to the pills he's taken.

3. "Number of the Beast" Widely thought to be a song urging America's children to join the Church of Satan and murder their parents in a bizarre ritual, this is actually a song that tells the first-person story of a kid who stumbles across a group of devil-worshippers holding a ritual in the woods and is running for his life to get help before they get him.

[Norton]

Regarding "Mack the Knife".......actually it was written in the 1920's by German composer Kurt Weill for a show called the Three Penny Opera (sorry, couldn't resist going in to music teacher mode:D ). Not sure how that affects your premise, but there you go;)

Mike Irwin:

Normally I'd agree with you that art is a reflection of the society in which it is founded. This is true throughout history....Hindemith, Goethe, Heine, Jack Kerrouac, the blues, be-bop....all are outgrowths of the environments in which the artists found themselves. Their total life's experience was a precursor to their artistic work.

The trouble with today's so-called art, specifically rap, is that the majority of people involved in that alleged musical scene have no direct experience with the "gangsta" life style, so they invent a persona. From the little bit that I observe, rap is closer to professional wrestling than it is the outpouring of personal life's experience evidenced in the works of Kerrouac, Ginsberg, etc. In an effort to develop "street cred" these bozos actually go out and do the things that they rap about. So, we then have a case of life imitating art.

This even more true in my opinion of TV......the great oracle in the living room spews forth the party line about homosexuality, sex, drug abuse and any other number of deviant behaviors, to which many mush minds intone "I will comply". Couple that with advertisements...."be young again", "be thin", "be successful, use brand XYZ shampoo" and you have a real disconnect with the traditional flow of art imitating life.

We shut off the cable when we moved.....not sure if I'll ever hook it back up again.

Mike.....not flaming you my friend, nor even do I totally disagree with you....just presenting another side of the coin to ponder. :D

Cheers

[NIGHTWATCH]

When "Elvis" started to shake his hips, it was the begining of good time music, Coool daddyo. :D The kind of music that we can ALL relate to which in my opinion is the highest calling of music.

I HATE RAP MUSIC if only because like no other music before, the message has worked to divide a nation. Inspire hatred and racism. Ignorance and violence. :mad: The only "artistic expression" here is a malignant black racism that has managed to become a cash cow for many of its participants.

[Atticus]

Mike: I disagree also. When Iowa farm boys and rich suburban white girls are "bustin a cap in wunna dey Crew", or having babies because it's cool, it is not a reflection of their environment. It's a reflection of a lifestyle advertising blitz ...among many other things.

[XLMiguel]

OKfine. Lok like a gangsta, act like a gangsta, don't be surprised if you get treated like a gangsta. Pop, pop, pop.:evil:

I don't recall the Greek guy's name, but he was moaning about how the youth of the day was going to Hell in a handbasket, IIRC he was a contemporary of Socrates. Hopefullly, this too, shall pass.

But I do thnk Rap is particularly poisonous. Dumb hip-hop kids, posers and hosers, can't tell the difference between real life and TV, start acting like they're "living the life", may find the cost of "keepin' it real", real high.

[Mike Irwin]

"The trouble with today's so-called art, specifically rap, is that the majority of people involved in that alleged musical scene have no direct experience with the "gangsta" life style, so they invent a persona."

And that's different from any other time frame how?

When Arthur Conan Doyle was writing the Sherlock Holmes stories (wildly popular) people came to the conclusion that he was, in fact, a master of detection and deduction. He was a physician, but was very adamant that he wasn't the character he portrayed.

In that situation, he didn't adopt the personna, but people expected it of him, and many times were greatly disappointed when he couldn't do the things that Holmes could do.

The same is true of these rap artists.

How viable do you think they would be to their audiences or their record labels if it came out that one of the biggest Gangsta Rap singers was actually a graduate of Brown with an MBA, happily married to his college sweetheart, with no police record?

He'd tank quicker than an M1.

As I said, the art is the expression the audience, but not necessarily the experience of the artist.

[Ebbtide]

Now I know, we've been through this before: Elvis was going to ruin America, punk rockers were the Anti-Christ, etc. But I have NEVER seen such a lack of concern for the future compared to today as in the hip-hoppers. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like they have no ambition other than hangin out smokin' blunts.

Once they figure out they need to get an education and a job to live, they will change. That used to happen at 18 years, but there are a lot of excuses not to grow up these days, or so THEY say.

ehenz

[DE44mag]

Rap music got it's start in the NY State prison system, specificly Attica. Do some research and you will find that out for your self.
Anytime you have one group that advicates violence and criminal behavior as the thing to do, you will have a BIG problem. I see the results of this at work everyday in prison. And remember that most of the big name rappers at the start of the rap music movement had been in prison for violent crimes.

[Keith]

If you waddle like a duck and quack like a duck, I'm going to assume you are a duck.

If you don't want to be taken for a duck, then quit waddling and quackling.

Seems pretty straightforward to me...

Keith

[Carlos Cabeza]

When I was an adolescent,:p I always liked to blaze my own trail..............maybe thats why I was such a dork who never had a girlfriend.:D Hopefully the difference between fiction and reality will become apparent to the majority of these kids before its too late.If not, mediocre jobs are plentiful, just that few are willing to work that hard to achieve their goals and dreams.

[longeyes]

"Soccer moms don't go on a 72 hour crime spree, carjacking and shooting people,
and killing a complete stranger for kicks."

Pick your poison: mayhem or slow-burn radiation.

Criminals kill sporadically, by the few. The desperados we shall always
have with us, praise the Lord.

Soccer Moms kill with kindness, or what we now universally call
"compassion." And their victims are legion. Maybe an entire society.

My point, Capt. Happypants, is that the "think of the children" contingent
is the other side of the gangsta movement. One culture, two faces. The
nuclear family is the answer to the gang family.

[greyhound]

I also have to wonder sometimes about these "artists":barf: and how they are "true to the hood".

How many of these supposedly "thug life 4eva" devotees jump real quick into acting? (And if you don't think 50 Cent isn't looking at scripts right now, I've got a bridge to sell ya. For some reason that clown really makes my blood boil).

Ice T
Ice Cube
DMX
Snoop Dog
Busta Ryhmes
Jay Z
Method Man
Eminem

are just a few off the top of my head.

"Keepin it real" my left foot......

[Mikul]

It's not the music. There actually is some decent rap, but it's difficult to find it considering the crowd that it hangs out with.

Easily 95% of rap is narcissistic to the extreme. If it isn't about violence, it's about how great the rapper thinks he is. I've heard entire albums where 9 of the 10 songs are 3 minute dissertations about the rapper's greatness and the sorry state he views all of his peers.

The glorification of violence makes up perhaps 35% of rap, but it is pervasive.

Want to hear rap lyrics translated? This site is hysterical:
http://www.bizbag.com/Misc%20articles/Rap%20Lyrics%20Translated.htm

[Dorrin79]

I like a lot of rap music. (I also really dislike some of it)

It's a) funny, b) provocative, and c) something different.

I'm a clean-cut white office worker who lives in a nice house in the suburbs, is happily married, and likes guns.

don't assume too much, simply based on someone's choice of music.

I don't assume that all listeners of country music are wife-beating drunken rednecks.

[Atticus]

Which caliber is optimal for trunk lid/ bass speaker penetration? :D

[spacemanspiff]

what was the line by Mr Longbaugh in 'way of the gun'?

paraphrased: these guys today, they want to be criminals more than they want to commit crimes.

look at todays role models. kobe bryant, an adulterer. 50 cent, a thug. p diddy puffly daddy, a bling-bling thug. eminem, angry white man who pistol whips guys he thinks made moves on his wife. allen iverson, beats and rapes women. countless others on drugs.
thats what kids today look up to. a mere 15 yrs ago, it was magic johnson, michael jordon, kareem. but it was also axl rose, another wife beater and drug addict. james hetfield, an alcoholic. eazy e, a thug.

theres always bad examples, in every generation. this current generation however, does seem to have sunk to a new low.

[Keith]

Rap culture has even invaded kids games!

[Jaguar]

Funney, I recently read an article about the hip-hop culture and it seem to follow many of the opinions here, i.e., distroying the youth.

Here is the link for How Hip-Hop Holds Blacks Back (http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_how_hip_hop.html)

I have my doubts, I listened to ":evil: music" while growing up and it hasn't effected me.... much. But the arguement presented in the above link is very compelling.

[Skunkabilly]

OKfine. Lok like a gangsta, act like a gangsta, don't be surprised if you get treated like a gangsta. Pop, pop, pop.

That's 'Cap, cap, cap.' Duhh... :rolleyes:

:D

[NewShooter78]

The music is the easy culprit. I think that it is the breakdown of the American family that is the real problem. The kids that have grown up into these "gangsta" rappers, for the most part grew up in broken, probably poor families. They didn't have proper role models, so they more than likely looked up to the "big man" in the neighborhood. If this "big man" was a drug dealer making a ton of cash then what kind of lifestyle to you think that kind of role model inspires. If it is a blue-collar hard working family man, what does that inspire.

Music is a reflection of a part of society. Children are becoming more and more dissolutioned at an earlier age. They are also being lost in the cracks at earlier ages. So it is no surprise that you have a genre of music that is a reflection of the types of lives they end up leading or want to lead.

It is also no surprise that white, suburban kids emulate this lifestyle either. Families are broken in all areas of society and kids, being more and more bombarded with marketing images and sales pitches of some kind or another, have started embracing this "outlaw" culture.

This hip-hop culture is more and more an outcry from kids to be acknowledged. Its the same time and time again. If parents all over the country took a more active role in the lives of their children, then I doubt we would be disscusing this topic now.

The reason that rap is so big now is that is was largely ignored when it was first coming into the popular culture. No one (in white America) thought that it was more than a quickly passing fade. It was a reflection of what was going on in the inner city streets of America, that is to say the problems that were abounding in the urban sprawls. People ignored these problems and the voices for these messages became louder and more extreme.

When this genre of music got more popular, the industry big wigs saw an opportunity to make a ton of cash. They had a new group of consumers seeing something new, and they wanted to have those consumers' dollars. The people that run the recording industry want to make money and they don't care about the type of music or its message, just the bottom line and the margins. They are not worried about moral responsibility, and they shouldn't be. Morals come from the home not a business.

So no we have a cash-cow industry that sucks in all who can find anything in it to relate to, and this now has no color lines or socio-economic boundaries.

But it all comes back to one thing...families. If you have a strong family then your kids might listen to the music but probably won't try and emulate the lifestyle.

[Alan Smithiee]

as my grandfather said to me 30 some odd years ago..

"if you don't want to be treated as a hood, don't act like a hood, don't dress like a hood, cause if you act like a hood, and dress like a hood, you get treated like a hood"

[WingZero]

I agree. Rap is stupid and dangerous. I also fail to see how the words rap and culture fit together. Too many people buy into this garbage because of the liberal marketing that is deployed by the mainstream pop-culture. 10 years of Clinton and the many years of liberal influence in america (since the 60's) has led us to where we are now, and why we are fighting for our freedoms.
Thats is why as a musician and audio engineer, I have made the foundation of my rock band, one based on a striaght edge drug free lifestyle and conservative views.
I know all too well how badly the music industy needs a make over.

[Futo Inu]

aztoy: www.mulletsgalore.com :)

[Boats]

The problem is nihilism in a certain percentage of kids. It has been going on for awhile now.

Here is the lyric for This Could Be Anywhere (This Could Be Everywhere) by the Dead Kennedys, a seminal west coast punk band circa 1985.

Cold concrete apartments
Rise up from wet black asphalt
Below them a few carcasses
Of the long gone age of privacy

It takes a scary kind of illness
To design a place like this for pay
Downtown's an arriviste American mall
Of video games and fast food chains

One by one
The little houses are bricked up and condemned
A subtle hint to move
Before the rats move in

This could be anywhere
This could be everywhere

Those new kids at school seem cool
But dad says not to talk to them
Stick to your old friends--They're not our kind
So now there's lots of fights

So many people I know
Come of age tense and bitter-eyed
Can't create so they just destroy
C'mon!
Let's set someone's dog on fire

Empty plastic culture slum
Suburbia's a war zone now
Sprouting the kinds of gangs
We thought we'd left behind

This could be anywhere
This could be everywhere

Kids at school are taking sides
Along color and uniform lines
My dad's gone and bought a gun
He says he's fed up
With crime in this town

This could be anywhere
This could be everywhere
This could be anywhere
This could be everywhere
Anywhere
Everywhere

I hope I'm gone before it explodes
I linger late at night, waiting for the bus
No amount of neon jazz
Could hide the oozing vibes of death

My dad's a vigilante now
He's bringing home these weird-??? friends
Like the guy who fires blanks at his TV
When Kojak's on

Or the guy who shows off his submachine gun
To his sixteen-year-old daughter's friends
Whose sense of pride and hope
Is being in the police reserve

This could be anywhere
This could be everywhere-Everywhere