Communications?

[Skunkabilly]

What's a good way to stay connected with family and community members? Cell phones can't always be counted on. Any affordable quality radios I can toss to a buddy in another car, or for my roommate to get in touch with me while I check out the bump while he keeps the guns on the door?

[gumshoe4]

I recommend that you buy a pair of Family Radio Service (FRS) handheld radios. They cost $50-100/pair and they transmit on certain UHF frequencies set aside by the FCC for FRS. They come with 14 channels. You can be even more discreet if you buy FRS radios with the "tone" feature. This is a series of subaudible tones that the radios transmit. The primary benefit is to eliminate interference from other radios on the same channel.

We travelled to Montana, Utah and Nevada this last summer with some friends and we used FRS radios car-to-car. Actual range in line of sight conditions is probably about a mile or so.

Your description of situations where you need communications is tailor-made for FRS radios. Most of the usual manufacturers (Uniden, Kenwood, Cobra, etc) make them and you can probably get them at your local electronics store or Radio Shack.

I recommend you stay away from the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) handhelds, which are also sold with the FRS radios. FRS does not require a license from the FCC, but GMRS does and the license costs about $70 PER RADIO. The GMRS radios have more power and more range (up to five miles or so), but the license fees offset that advantage, in my opinion.

Bob
TFL# 8032

[The Reaper]

The other nice thing about FRS radios is you can get the oh so tactical vox activated headsets. ;)

Just teasing with the tactical comment of course. Handsfree is nice if you're checking the bump in the night. The wife and I use them like an intercom in the house or if I'm out on the property somewhere.

Oh and they are in a common scanner bands so others can listen if you need to do a broadcast.

[Logistar]

I have a Cobra FRS that is a couple of years old now. It has 2 advantages that I have not seen on other radios.

1. "Scrambled voice" option. -Makes the audio unintelligible if you select it. (All parties involved in the conversation would have to select it). I suppose anyone else with a Cobra like this could listen in but what would be the odds?

2. It has built in "Weather Radio". Here, the local stations also broadcast during ANY emergency (chemical leak, etc.).

Works (well) for me!

Logistar

[mpthole]

I also use the FRS radios. I've got a couple Motorola T6320's with the re-chargeable ni-cad batteries. These units also have the weather radio, barometer, altimeter, thermometer, VOX, channel scan, clock and stopwatch functions. They work great for car-to-car communication. You can get both an AC adapter and car/DC adapter for a constant power supply. I keep one radio and car adapter in my truck ready to go and the other is in the apartment with a full charge. Of course, they can also run on three regular AA alkaline batteries.

Check out the Motorola site for all the accessories and options.

[mtnbkr]

I recommend you stay away from the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) handhelds, which are also sold with the FRS radios. FRS does not require a license from the FCC, but GMRS does and the license costs about $70 PER RADIO. The GMRS radios have more power and more range (up to five miles or so), but the license fees offset that advantage, in my opinion.

Actually, I believe the license is on a household basis. Either way, if you can swing the license fee, GMRS is worth it. GMRS radios tend to be higher quality radios than FRS. Plus, you can get onto some local GMRS repeaters if they're available in your area and really expand your range.



Chris

[mtnbkr]

I recommend you stay away from the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) handhelds, which are also sold with the FRS radios. FRS does not require a license from the FCC, but GMRS does and the license costs about $70 PER RADIO. The GMRS radios have more power and more range (up to five miles or so), but the license fees offset that advantage, in my opinion.

Actually, I believe the license is on a household basis. Either way, if you can swing the license fee, GMRS is worth it. GMRS radios tend to be higher quality radios than FRS. Plus, you can get onto some local GMRS repeaters if they're available in your area and really expand your range.



Chris

[gumshoe4]

Chris, the GMRS handheld radios being sold in the electronics stores currently do not have the repeater frequency pairs programmed in.

Also, not to dispute, but I made the mistake of buying GMRS radios awhile back, thinking the license would be $10-15 or so. When I got the radios back home, I checked the FCC website and reviewed the GMRS license structure. My understanding of it (feel free to correct) is that each transmitter requires a license and the license is $70.

Based upon that, I took the radios back and I'm sticking with FRS and CB for unlicensed short range communications and my 2m/7cm and 10m FM ham radios for repeater and longer range licensed comms.

Bob
TFL #8032

[Chris Rhines]

Skunk - Ever consider getting your ham license?

- Chris

[Erick Gelhaus]

The FRS radios are a hot ticket. No experience though with the GPS versions.

[mtnbkr]

Chris, the GMRS handheld radios being sold in the electronics stores currently do not have the repeater frequency pairs programmed in.

Also, not to dispute, but I made the mistake of buying GMRS radios awhile back, thinking the license would be $10-15 or so. When I got the radios back home, I checked the FCC website and reviewed the GMRS license structure. My understanding of it (feel free to correct) is that each transmitter requires a license and the license is $70.

Right, the cheap ones don't have the pairs, but the higher end models do. I'm not sure how he does it, but a friend of mine uses his mobile GMRS rig as a repeater for his Motorola GMRS radios. I don't think they have the repeater pairs either. We got in an argument about it because I thought you had to have the pairs and he thought you didn't. Wonder if the Motorollas (these are the old, walkytalky sized ones that cost $200 back in 1998 or so) have the pairs and he doesn't know it....

Regarding the licenses, I couldn't find specifics on the FCC site. Can you provide a link? The last thing I heard was that a license covered an entire household (from GMRSWeb.com). I'm not doubting you, just trying to clear up what I've read versus the law.

A ham license is probably the way to go, but only if everyone you want to talk to has their license as well. At least with GMRS, you can tune in the FRS frequencies.

Chris

[Skunkabilly]

I have had a Ham license since I was 12 years old...I'm a tech plus now and got to go through 44 pages of FCC paperwork, the first two pages explaining about the paperwork reduction act of 1995 or something, just to renew the damn thing.

Does a ham radio trump all this FRS stuff?

[gumshoe4]

Ham radio is cool and I like it very much, but it has several problems:

1) It doesn't help you much if you're trying to communicate with folks who don't have their ham licenses. In our convoy last year, the family in the other car did not have ham licenses, but they did have cellular and FRS. Next time, we'll also have CB, which has better range and louder audio. Laugh at CB if you want, but it also works well in caravans.

2) Hams in some areas (like the area I live in) tend to be a little cliquish and won't generally yak with you if they don't know you. I think ham radio is a little more elitist than FRS and CB. Sorry if that offends some folks-I mean no offense and I've been licensed since 1984 or thereabouts-but that's been my experience, unless you belong to a repeater or radio club.


The FCC URL is www.fcc.gov . If you surf it a little, you'll figure out where you need to go to get licensing info-it's a little complicated to explain here.

[farscott]

A couple of comments. It is extremely easy to get the basic amateur license in the USA; there is a simple multiple choice test (and all of the questions and answers are published) and a small test fee (I think my last test fee was $6). The license is good for ten years. Thus, it is very easy for a whole family to get licensed and the fee for an entire family is less than the GMRS license fee for one transceiver. Amateur transceivers are very inexpensive; for example, a 5-W hand-held operating in the 2-meter band can be had for as little as $100. This type of radio should have a range of several miles and allows access to local repeaters and patches to the telephone system.

Under normal circumstances, an amateur (ham) license is required to use the frequencies reserved for amateur use; however, the FCC rules specifically state that any frequency can be used by anyone, licensed or not, in the event of an emergency that involves damage to property or risk to life. There is always someone monitoring the amateur bands, so any emergency calls are quickly answered.

I think the amateur bands are a good choice for any emergency.

[gun-fucious]

heres the skinny on GMRS licencing
http://www.pe.net/~atd/fcc605.htm

me wonders how many Walmart GMRS shoppers are un licenced

[gumshoe4]

Farscott-not to be argumentative, but some people are simply not interested in radio except for their ability to use it to communicate. They want radio comms without any hassle and with minimal cost. CB and FRS fulfill those goals for them. GMRS does not, because the licensing is more expensive.

You and I may agree that getting your ham license is not difficult, but those folks simply won't be bothered, even when you demo repeaters and longpath HF DX to them. It's just the way it is. I stand ready to help any of my friends who show the slightest interest in ham radio, but in the meantime, CB, FRS and cell phones meet their needs.

These are just my observations with regard to my friends-your experience may be different.

Bob
TFL# 8032

[Edward429451]

I've been tossing this around for awhile now and if money ever starts to flow again I've decided (I think) to go FRS vox for close in and probably sideband for distance.

Reason being is that HAM is 'gubmint dependant'. If SHTF, the repeaters will almost certainly be shut down rather quick, ditto GMRS if repeater dependant.

Sideband cannot be shut down and with a linear amp you can pretty much talk worldwide with good skip conditions. Something to think about.

[mtnbkr]

Reason being is that HAM is 'gubmint dependant'. If SHTF, the repeaters will almost certainly be shut down rather quick, ditto GMRS if repeater dependant

How is that? Most of the repeaters I hear of are either privately owned (especially the GMRS repeaters) or owned by clubs (made up of private individuals). Besides, HAM frequencies can talk DX without a repeater so lack of such systems would be a non-issue anyway. You can go as low as 60meters, IIRC (CB is around 11meters I think, FRS/GMRS is 70CM more or less). Remember, the longer the wavelength, the less "line of sight" the signal becomes and the less dependant you are on devices like repeaters (or something to that effect, I'm still learning).

Anyhoo, I'm not sure how the "gubmint" comes into play unless they intend to confiscate all HF equipment (which includes CB I believe) and shut down all repeaters. The only real govt involvement I know of is the FCC licensing and that's not even a requirement in emergency situations (the "gubmint" also relies on HAMs to help provide comms during emergencies, disasters, etc).

like I said, I'm still learning. If I missed anything, enlighten me.

Chris

[Edward429451]

Well, I'm not exactly a radio buff myself but I figure plan for the worst. Available funky legislation and executive orders allegedly give power to the gubmint to seize and dominate all communications related items in time of emergency. (we've been in a declared state of emergency sine 1933?)

My friend is tryin to talk me into going ham. He says the military frequencies are filtered out of regular ham equipment, but if you know which crystal to crush or wire to cut etc., you can pick them up but better not transmit. The way he talks about repeaters, I got the impression that it'd be a small thing to deny service to the masses, and that if they did, it'd be a small matter to locate you if you did transmit.

Thats unverified heresay technically but I wouldnt think it unreasonable to consider it a real possibility. He sounded like he knew of what he spoke. Maybe a real radio buff'll come along and set the record straight on the actual pros and cons of the situation.

I've seen people talk round the world on SB's no bigger than a CB radio. So far, I think its the best choice. Can anyone enlighten us a little more?

[HS/LD]

Couldn't you get some black string, 2 tin cans and paint them black and write TACTICAL on them in red.

If you pull the string tight...



:D

HS/LD

[voilsb]

I've heard good things about the Garmin Rino 120. I've not used it, and they aren't cheap (~$240 each), but they're FRS, GMRS, and GPS capable radios. You can get three, name each radio, and then each radio will display where the other two are at, by name, if they're within radio range.

I want some ...

[mtnbkr]

The way he talks about repeaters, I got the impression that it'd be a small thing to deny service to the masses, and that if they did, it'd be a small matter to locate you if you did transmit.

That's the case right now. Some repeaters are owned by individuals or clubs that only want certain people on them. They're not open to the public. I can't recall offhand how they control access though. Effectively, they are denied to the masses. As far as being tracked down, the FCC does that now in extreme cases of piracy. Heck, private individuals have the equipment and know-how to track down pirate users. Serious GMRS users are very aggressive at this since every wal-mart has a cheap GMRS set for sale and nobody really pushes the license issue. If they can shut down the amateur frequencies, they can shut down "SB" and FRS. Actually, if it gets that far, they would have shut down all radio comms since they are jamming at that point.

I've seen people talk round the world on SB's no bigger than a CB radio

Are you talking about Single Side Band? That's just a modulation mode like AM or FM. Basically, it uses only half of the signal for transmission. It's available in most decent HAM rigs, even mobil rigs that look like CB units. Here's (http://www.sgcworld.com/support/SGCwhatis.html) some good information regarding SSB.


Also, check out www.eham.net

Chris

[mpthole]

Available funky legislation and executive orders allegedly give power to the gubmint to seize and dominate all communications related items in time of emergency.
AFAIK, you don't need a HAM license to just "buy" the equipment you need. The license is only needed if you want to transmit. So, if you never got your license and decided to have some HAM rigs laying around - just in case - there's no way of anyone ever really knowing.

I'm beginning to study for my Tech+ thru General exams. Probably won't be able to take the test until May as that's the soonest its offered around here.

Still... as far as quick and easy person-to-person comm within a mile or two, you can hardly beat FRS.

Gumshoe: Mind if I contact you via pm or e-mail with some specific questions?

[Kevlarman]

If you do get a GMRS license, it covers your entire immediate family, so no sweat there.

[gumshoe4]

mpthole-you are most welcome to contact me off site.

lph10@surewest.net

Lot of interesting, partially correct info here. Ham repeaters are owned by clubs or individuals. The owners are free under federal law to allow all licensed hams access or to limit access. The private repeaters are often closed to protect control links or to allow dedicated comms between club members, etc. Most repeaters are tone controlled, but access is not directly denied, except verbally by the operators. The repeaters are located at the high ends of the 10 meter and 6 meter bands, the 2 meter band, the 70 cm band, the 1 1/4 meter (222 mhz) band and the lowest microwave band, 1.2 gigahertz.

There is no 60 meter ham band. The primary HF bands are 160 meters (1.8 mhz), 80/75 meters (3.5 mhz), 20 meters (14.0 mhz), 15 meters (21 mhz) and 10 meters (28 mhz). There are also other smaller bands in the HF spectrum which are usable by hams, but the ones I identified are the most commonly used. Some folks also lump in the 6 meter band (52 mhz). Each of these bands has different characteristics. The low bands generally work best at night and in the winter while the higher bands do best during the day and in the summer. Some bands, like the 10 meter and 6 meter bands, also often display characteristics which are more like VHF and UHF bands (line of sight, ground wave comms). I personally have not done much on the lower bands, because I just upgraded to General and I'm trying to get radios and antennas set up. I've done quite a bit on both 10 meter and 6 meter single sideband, which is the most efficient and bandspace-saving way to communicate on those bands.

Hams work many different modes, including single sideband voice, FM and AM voice, CW (morse code), packet (digital), slow and fast scan TV, satellite and moonbounce and I'm dead sure I've forgotten something. Hams also build, invent, fix and provide public service with their radio gear.

Ham radio is a lot of fun and I've been licensed for a long time, but not everyone is interested in it. If anyone is interested, I recommend that you check out the American Radio Relay League (ARRL) website for more detailed information, because I'm not doing a real good job of giving a complete picture here.

Now you know what I spend my money on besides guns.

Bob
TFL# 8032

[bogie]

I use my little FRS radios quite a bit - they work fine when pulling targets, setting wind flags, and for road trips. And every so often, I whip one out, surf until I find a coupla kids talking, and tell them to get off the top secret tactical web so that we can fight the aliens.