[BOOM-BOOM]

Since the main factor between a 38 and a 357 mag is the load. then if you would take the casing of a 38 and fill it to brim, ''so to speak''

Would you have a 38mag???? because right now the 38 isn't much more then a 9mm as for as load goes isn't it. The 38 casing use to have black powder but now it doesn't. so you have this large casing that is wasted, so why not fill it up....

[Furncliff]

Try it out and get back to us:)

[The Lone Haranguer]

Your user name would be well-deserved. :uhoh:

[rcmodel]

If the .38 Spl. were only to be used in a .357 Mag gun, you can do that.

No, not "fill it to the brim" with powder.
But use more of a slower burning Magnum type powder.

The reason .38 Special is not loaded any hotter then it is, is due to the fact there are about a gazillion old .38 Spl. revolvers still out there that pre-date modern steel & heat threated parts.

It is not possible to exactly duplicate .357 velocity, due to the slightly smaller case capacity, but you can come pretty close.

rcmodel

[10X]

You can create overloads (excessive pressure) depending upon the powder used. You could damage the gun or yourself. That is why we have loading manuals, the research is done for us. Read and heed!

The case on a 357 is 1/10" longer than a 38 to prevent placing the higher pressure load in a 38 revolver and damaging the gun. 357 revolvers are made stronger than a 38 from more metal or better heat treating.

Placing a 357 charge in a 38 case will increase pressure over the 357 round because of less room for gasses to expand in the shorter 38 case.

[Brian Williams]

tis generally called a 38/44. It was the precurser to the 357 and was the same size as a 38 spec but had lots of Boom

[dagger dog]

Yeah I would take a .38 Special case and fill it just short of full(this is so you can still seat the bullet), with BULLSEYE. Then give it a real firm CRIMP.

Just make sure the ambulance is standing by to help pick up the fingers, when you pull her off!

I think Elmer Keith loaded some hot .38 specials back in the thirtys, but he did just a little more research than just FILL "ER UP!

[BOOM-BOOM]

Thanks guys that was interesting. I believe I understand the concept of the
38/357 theory a little better now..

[1911Tuner]

Before the introduction of the .357 Magnum, there was such a round. It was known as the "38/44" and was nothing more than a .38 Special case, loaded ot proof levels and headstamped as such.

It was intended to be fired only in Colt and Smith & Wesson's large framed .38 Special revolvers. Essentially .44 Special revolvers. Hence the name "A .38 on a .44 Frame." Or...38/44.

The problems started when the adventurous souls began firing the ammunition in what was to become the the K-frames...the ones that were designed for the standard .38 Special cartridge. First, the frames stretched and headspace grew. They ignored the fact that their guns were becoming oddly loose...and the ones that ignored it for long enough were rewarded with a reminder that it's not wise to disregard the manufacturer's advice NOT to fire the ammunition in anything EXCEPT a .38 on a .44 frame.

The reason that the .357 magnum case is longer isn't for added powder capacity so much as it is to keep it from being fired in .38 Special revolvers.

[BOOM-BOOM]

So let me ask you this...

is the 38+ close to the 357

[1911Tuner]

is the 38+ close to the 357

No. The .38 +P isn't even close to proof levels for the .38 cartridge. The old "Treasury Load" with a 110-grain bullet, designated ".38 +P+ was loaded no higher than proof, and likely a little below it.

If you handload...understand too that using .357 data in a .38 Special case will cause serious overpressure due to rhe reduced case capacity.

[rcmodel]

No.
158 grain standard .38 Spl. = 755 FPS.
158 grain .38 Spl. +P = 890 FPS.
158 grain .357 Mag = 1,235 FPS.

BTW: The old (No longer loaded) .38/44 Highway Master was a 158 grain at 1,100 FPS.

That right there is about the maximun performance you can get out of a .38 Spl. case, and only then in large frame S&W & Colt .38 Spl.guns, or .357 Magnum guns.

rcmodel

[1911Tuner]

It might be worth noting that there was also a wildcat based on the .44 Special case, necked down to accept a .357 diameter bullet. The 38/44 Bain & Davis was a real hot-rod, and is very likely where the idea for the .357 Sig was first conceived.

[rcmodel]

It is also worth noting that what is +P today (158 @ 890) was the standard load about 50 years ago when I started shooting .38 Special.

+P didn't come along until about 25 years ago. When it did, the standard pressure load was de-tuned slightly.

The max pressure of the .357 Magnum was also dropped from 40,000 to 35,000 PSI at about the same time.

rcmodel

[Phil DeGraves]

"Since the main factor between a 38 and a 357 mag is the load. then if you would take the casing of a 38 and fill it to brim, ''so to speak'' "

Well there are about a gazillion different powders that can be used to load the .38 Spl, all with different burning rates and bulkiness. You will fill more of the case with PB (which is a relatively bulky powder) for example, than you would with Bullseye and performance would be similar. But if you filled the case with Bullseye, you'd blow the gun up, even the big N-frames or heavy Rugers.

[golden]

BOOM BOOM,

I strongly advise against loading a .38 special to .357 magnum pressure. For one thing, the CASE IS SMALLER, .357MAGNUM LOADS WILL GENERATE EVEN HIGHER PRESSURE IN THE SMALLER .38 CASE.

Another reason, if you load for more than one case, you might get away with overloaded .38 Specials in a large frame gun like the RUGER GP-100, S&W L or N frame guns, but what if a cylinder full ends up in a 5 shot J frame. You could wreck the gun and possiblely you hand.

Stick to .357 brass for .357 loads and use them only in .357 magnum caliber guns.

It is just safer all around.

Jim

[Geezer59]

Back in the late 1970's, I used to shoot handgun metallic silhouette. I developed a heavy ram load for my 8-3/8" Model 27 .357 Mag using surplus Air Force .38 Special brass (thick walled) and Speer 180 grain flat tip rifle bullets intended for .358 Winchester and .35 Remington rifles. Used compressed loads of Hodgdon H-110 powder (several grains over listed .357 maximums :what:), seated the bullets just deep enough to allow cylinder rotation, and added a light taper crimp to minimize bullet jump from recoil (the cannelure didn't line up with the case mouth for a roll crimp).

The load was quite accurate and had great action on on the ram targets, even on windy days. I did have to mark one chamber in my cylinder with grease pencil, as any of these rounds fired there would show severe signs of excess pressure (extreme primer flattening, cratered firing pin indent, etc.). None of the other chambers had this problem (ejection of spent brass was easy), so it must have been something with that one chamber that was off. Would never had allowed any of these loads in any other firearm - I'd developed up to them in that particular gun very slowly, and stopped adding powder only because I couldn't cram any more in there. The compression was approaching the point of slight bullet deformation from the seating stem - I didn't want to degrade accuracy trying for a couple of tenths of a grain more powder.

Recoil was so sharp and stiff that the back of the trigger guard would smack the knuckle on my middle finger painfully - and the 8-3/8" barrel was the longest available at that time. I had to wear a padded Band-Aid over that knuckle to last out a match. Hate to think what might have happened if any of that ammo got into someone else's gun. Just goes to show what extremes can be attained if you work up carefully. :evil:

[grendelbane]

If any one is thinking of trying Elmer Keith's old .38/44 load, I would like to remind you that .38 Special cases and primers have changed over the years.

The current brass is thicker, which means less case capacity, and the older primers were probably milder.

So, the stout charge of 2400 that he used may be just a bit too stout when used with modern components.

The same situation exists with the .44 Special.

BTW, Elmer tried even hotter loads in both .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases, but cut the powder charge back because of leading. I have a copy of the American Rifleman magazine where he first wrote of the .357 Magnum.