[Edward429451]

I took my new Bushmaster to the range Saturday after not having shot or handled one since I was a kid. Some of my observations and questions;

1) I could hear the buffer spring cycling as I shot. Should this get a thin coating of grease? Would it quieten it?

2) Seemed like the trigger had a lot of creep in it. It may actually have been affecting my results but am not sure yet. Is it worth the effort to polish the trigger/hammer and try to clean it up? Will the creep lessen or go away on its own with use? The trigger was horrible next to my M1A's.

3) I shot the AR from prone and realized that you can't get any more prone than the pistol grip on the ground. I wasn't too fond of the technique but may be able to get used to it. What's you guy's experiance with that wide base pistol grip replacement thing that they sell? Does it help?

4) That handguard sucks. Its got that flexible plastic 'Mattel' feel to it. Whats a reasonable alternative?

5) How do you set up a shooting sling on it correctly so you wont be pulling your shots off from the sling pressure? Most the sling stuff I seen for it so far was pretty cheesy. A free float tube with a 360 deg swivel maybe? Good Brand?

6) How often should I pull apart the handguard and clean the gas tube etc.? I haven't yet. Prolly not very often if at all is what I'm thinkin'.

THX.

[Badger Arms]

1) I could hear the buffer spring cycling as I shot. Should this get a thin coating of grease? Would it quieten it?Many people do this. I prefer to take a large cleaning patch dampened with gun oil and wedge it in the rear spring. That does the trick and gives me an emergency patch to wipe down the gun or cut into bore patches if I need them quickly.2) Seemed like the trigger had a lot of creep in it. It may actually have been affecting my results but am not sure yet. Is it worth the effort to polish the trigger/hammer and try to clean it up? Will the creep lessen or go away on its own with use? The trigger was horrible next to my M1A's.Don't do this. Buy a good quality aftermarket match trigger. Trying to stone the action parts on an AR-15 is really not adviseable.4) That handguard sucks. Its got that flexible plastic 'Mattel' feel to it. Whats a reasonable alternative?Well, you could get a free-float tube. The tubes make the gun slightly lighter in the front but they are rock-solid. They tend to heat up faster, though, and are at the high end of what a non-gunsmith should be installing. You have to take the barrel nut off and require at least one special wrench and vice jaws for your upper receiver.6) How often should I pull apart the handguard and clean the gas tube etc.? I haven't yet. Prolly not very often if at all is what I'm thinkin'.NEVER CLEAN THE INSIDE OF THE GAS TUBE. Once the free-float tube is on there, keep everything where it is. The front site base, gas tube, and free-float tube are designed to be permanent and only removed to be replaced or repaired if damaged. You can use a cleaning rod section with a patch attached to clean and lube the outside of the barrel if you've got a free-float tube. If you decide to keep your handguards like they are, only remove and clean the OUTSIDE of the barrel and gas tube. I do this once a season on guns I shoot during the year. I also take a patch soaked in isopropyl alcohol and clean all of the CLP off the gas tube so it doesn't burn off as I fire.

[gun-fucious]

what kind of shooting are you planning on doing?

you could get a freefloated handguard and sling up tight and shoot smaller groups

www.fultonarmory.com has a few

grease will quiet the sprooong

there are nicer, more fiddley triggers
the Rock river arms 2 stage gets good reviews

the bushmaster furniture is pretty much the standard issue stuff

get the -23 and follow its recommendations for wrenching and twiddling
http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/ar15manuals.msnw

[tac17]

You have already gotten some good advice but I will also recommend the 2 stage Rock River trigger, I really like mine alot.

[JCox]

Again, You've gotten some good advice. I hear the spring on mine as well but after about 60 rounds, I've forgotten about it.

Don't clean the gas tube!!

As far as the grip, I've gotten used to mine and with iron sites, I'm hitting in a 1" group at 100yds. This is resting on the back of my truck. (I was suprised at that because I was moving some.) Scope is all fudged up so I'm going to have to back up and punt.

Rest of it, I have no dealings with. Take their advice.

[Steve Smith]

Edward, the "sproing" is very common. You can just put a glob of heavy grease on the spring to eliminate it.

Get an aftermarket trigger. For accuracy work, the RRA 2 stage is excellent. For speed (like 3 gun) the single stage triggers are better (JP).

Highpower shooters get pretty good results in prone with that rifle, and we're not allowed to have any part of the gun touching the ground. Work on the postion.

I don't know which handguards Bushy uses, but there are several types on the market. The cheapest is the plastic, and the best are fiberglass resin. Buy some black handguards from RRA, they are the strong ones.

You and I discussed float tubes that day in your basement. The RRA and Armalite float tubes are the strongest on the market. they will go under your handguards, but will add about a pound or pound and a half to the weight of your rifle. The alternative is a float tube that does away with the AR style handguards altogether. You'll just have a large tube up front. Either way, you can expect to have the barrel removed for its installation. We also discussed the way you rig a sling to prevent movement of the barrel, if no float tube is present. Use an M1 Garand web sling and route it along the handguard, once through the carry handle or around the delta ring, and then down to your arm.

Never clean the gas tube. When you need a new barrel, buy a new gas tube.

[Edward429451]

Highpower shooters get pretty good results in prone with that rifle, and we're not allowed to have any part of the gun touching the ground. Work on the postion.

Gotcha. Didn't you post a pic of you prone on your deck with an AR awhile back? I couldn't find it. (I should've zeroed it from prone in the first place, instead of the bench.) I'll work on that.

with iron sites, I'm hitting in a 1" group at 100yds.

Uh wow, good shooting! I'll work towards that. What grain bullets are you using? I've only shot the 55's so far but I picked up some 69 gr SMK's to try also. Plus more familierization is in order also.:D



We also discussed the way you rig a sling to prevent movement of the barrel, if no float tube is present.

I remember that. I'm partial to leather though so was seeing what others have done. I may have to get a web sling anyway considering the price of float tubes. BM has a four rail float tube for 200 bucks, with sling mount points.

I didn't really want to pimp it out but I would like to get a sling on it, and I do think I could appreciate the match trigger. I should just play with bullet weights & loads until I warm up to it more.

[Jon Coppenbarger]

edward:

we have a class coming up on sept. 6th that should be able to really get you started right on shooting the ar15.

you might think about it.
it is a slow prone class that is shot at 600 yards with open sight ar15's.

the cost of the class is $45
it includes all the ammo
the match grade rifle is included also and I would suggest using the rifle provided so you my see what all of the above things mentioned can do for you.

the class starts at 7am with about a hour or two of class room instruction followed by the rest of the day on the range.
we finish up around 2 or 3 followed by a pot luck picknic and the club provides the bratz and sodas.

you will have a very good highpower rifle instructor with you on the range and get alot of one on one training as we have usually one instructor for every 4 shooters.

the class fills pretty quick so if you are interested give steve or I a call or email.
you can also ask for a certain instructor also if you wish steve to help you. (good choice).
it is at buffalo creek range about 1 1/2 hours out of the springs in the mountains. nice place.
jon

[Edward429451]

Sounds like a good idea to cut thru the muck in a quick way. Nothing like following in anothers steps instead of blazing a new trail.

I'll check my scedule and probably get with one of you guys later today.

I was on AR15.com last night and lots of those guys seem to be using the CQB slings. Any of you guys using them? Comments?

[sanchezero]

Holy cow, that class sounds great...

If only I didn't have to fly to Colorado :( .

[Edward429451]

Couple other things I noticed Saturday...

Almost impossible to get a cheek weld with muffs on. Good thing I had some foam plugs.

And...

All this talk on THR lately about dominant eye and such, I did the finger test thing and might just be cross dominant, though I've always used my right eye. My contact lens perscription has a stronger lens for my left eye though? Not sure what that means.

I have been told that the smaller apeture is for shorter ranges. The Bushy manual says different though, that the larger peep is for out to 200 and the smaller is for longer ranges. Who's right?

I was using the smaller peep at 100 and a couple times had some trouble focusing on the front sight, did the focus on the ground thing for a few sec's and then resight and it only helped marginally. Said what the hey, try it left eyed and see what happens. My focus seemed easier to sustain and clearer!

Here's the odd part...I tried benching both the M1A and the AR left eyed/shoulder, and I shot slightly higher scores with more X's with the M1A left eyed than right, and when I tried it with the AR, I wasn't even on the paper for any of the 10 shots! Yet sight pic and release seemed fine. Is that weird or what?

Anyone? Anyone?:D

[tac17]

Is that weird or what?
How about this for oddity. I am ambidextrous but I still have a preference for what hand does what.

I prefer to write with my left
I prefer to use a fork with my left
I kick like a right handed person
I bat like a right handed person
I prefer to shoot right handed.
I throw and ball and catch it like a left handed person.
For some unknown reason I can only talk on a phone with it on my left ear. It just drives me crazy to do it the other way.

The reason that I shoot right handed is because it is a right handed world and left handed stuff hasn't always the easiest thing to find and I had a dominant right eye. It used to work out great for me up until about two months ago. For some reason my dominant eye has started switching between the two. I can do the tests once and be right eye dominant and come back fifteen minutes later and be left eye dominant. I would think that would be impossible if someone else told me it was happening to them, since it's me I believe it though. :) I understand your front sight focus problems completely. :cuss:


By the way big peep close target, little peep distant target.

[Steve in PA]

I recently attended a week long rifle instructor course....and using one of the "CQB" slings came in mighty handy.......being able to let go of the rifle and let it hang instead of holding onto it is a great plus!!!

[Steve Smith]

I don't know of anyone that uses muffs with an AR. No doubt someone will post that they do, but maybe their ears are mounted high.

Theoretically eye dominance should make a difference, but I know a few folks (JC121 is one) that are cross dominant and ignore it. I suspect he'd shoot even better if he switched, but being a righty is a hard thing to abandon. If you can make your non-dominant eye work well, you could get by with it if you must.

On a "standard" AR, the small aperture is for longer distances. When you look through the big one you would swear you could walk through it. It is apparent (at least to me) that the large aperture is for close combat where a man may fill half or the entire rear sight. In HP, we completely ignore the large aperture as it has too much slop for a game tht starts at 200 yards. You can adjust your front sight so that you are just a few clicks from bottom on the rear with a 200 yard zero. That way you can use the small aperture all the way out, OR since this is more of a defense rifle (right?) you could follow the directions and set up the sight to be correct with the big aperture from 0-200 yards. Your rifle.

I think it would be a very good idea for you to came to our prone clinic.

Before you come, you should probably try to figure out your eyesight issues, though. If the front sight is centered in the rear aperture, then the bullet will hit where the front sight is placed (excepting elevation changes for distance and wind). If you hit somewhere else, I can only assume that your front sight wasn't aligned with the rear. The sightradius of the AR is considerably shorter than that of an M1A, so that could cause issues fr focus if you are not accustomed to it, or if you have an inadequate prescription.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Plenty of good advice here so I'll just add my two cents on a few issues I didn't see mentioned.

The large 0-2 peep sight is also an excellent peep sight for indoors or low-light use. The small peep sight can block enough light that it can be tough to pick up your front sight against a low contrast target (black post on black target) in flourescent indoor light.

The RRA starts out as a nice two-stage trigger but with use degrades into a nice single-stage trigger. Not an issue for most people; but you should be aware of it.

[Edward429451]

Tac, at least I know O'm not alone. thx.

Steve in PA, The cqb slings are carry only tho, right? No shooting sling techniques for them?

Steve,

If you can make your non-dominant eye work well, you could get by with it if you must.

I'm going to continue using my right eye overall but I'm a little curious to see if left eyed will give me consistent results over time. That was the very first time I ever shot left handed/eyed, so it prolly isnt a true indicator.

On a "standard" AR, the small aperture is for longer distances. When you look through the big one you would swear you could walk through it. It is apparent (at least to me) that the large aperture is for close combat where a man may fill half or the entire rear sight.

This makes perfect sense. (So why did I use the small peep that day?) Oh yeah, I read something about using the small one. Maybe he was a HP shooter too! Thats the prob with getting advice from people tho, why & for what purpose? If you don't know, it can be confusing and misleading. Maybe, 'just do it and see what works' would apply here.:D

In HP, we completely ignore the large aperture

Remember in my basement you reaching out to my buddies AR and flipping the peep, saying, wrong one...?:D Maybe thats what reinforced in my mind not to use it, lol. I'm going back up this weekend with a large peep, and we will see what we will see. I gotta remember that I am NOT a HP shooter, and to learn to walk before running. Maybe I'll get there eventually but one step at a time. This is starting to be funny.:D

OR since this is more of a defense rifle (right?) you could follow the directions and set up the sight to be correct with the big aperture from 0-200 yards. Your rifle.

Umm, yeah it sure is. If you could even call a rifle defensive (but thats another thread). That is what I'm going to do. set it up for the big peep for now and there's always later.

I think it would be a very good idea for you to came to our prone clinic.

I agree. Its not carved in stone yet, but I'll let you know in a day or 2.

Before you come, you should probably try to figure out your eyesight issues, though. If the front sight is centered in the rear aperture, then the bullet will hit where the front sight is placed (excepting elevation changes for distance and wind). If you hit somewhere else, I can only assume that your front sight wasn't aligned with the rear. The sightradius of the AR is considerably shorter than that of an M1A, so that could cause issues fr focus if you are not accustomed to it, or if you have an inadequate prescription.

My prescription was just updated recently. I'm starting to think this may have been a position issue, from first time out/unfamilierity, or maybe even the trigger and I just didn't notice it. (The sight radius is still longer than my Mini's and I do better with those, unless the small peep was affecting it too?).

We'll see. Its all coming out in the wash. I appreciate all you guys comments, and time on this.

[gun-fucious]

Peltor Tac 6s work OK for AR shooting

its a low profile electronic muff

they dont have the dB rating of a full set (NRR 19)
so some folkes earplug & tac 6

[Jon Coppenbarger]

in the clinic we work on your position and by the time you are done we will have you in the right position.

that includes how to check your correct npa, sight picture, breathing, correct sling tension , trigger control and about everything else.
you will be amazed what those rifles will do at that range.

I shoot the rock river two state triggers and yes they can go to single stage on you after awhile but only on a few of them. have had 4 of them and it happened only once but it only takes a few minutes to fix it, very easy to do. what happens is the first stage goes away and you just add it back onto the trigger in the first stage.

as far as slings go steve and most everybody else uses a leather match sling but a few of us swear by the old web garand slings as I do and steve knows a few others also that do.
they are very inexpensive and comform to your body and arm very easily.

we just instruct at the clinic but can give you the number for the arrangements to attend.
jon

[Edward429451]

I am going to need that contact info. This clinic sounds too good to miss. At 45 bucks a pop though, its pretty easy to see their basically doin it for free what with their guns & ammo and lunch.

Where's this place at? Sounds like all I really need to bring is a chunk of carpet for a shooting mat?

[HankB]

1) Somewhere on the Fulton Armory website they recommend lubricating the buffer with "too much" oil. I squirted a bunch of Tetra gun oil in there and the spring is much quieter.

2) I installed a Jewell trigger in my Bushmaster. The 1st time, it took me over an hour . . . I'm sure if I did it again, it would take no more than 20 minutes. It's now adjusted to a crisp, creep free, 2 lbs or so. This weight is not legal for service rifle competition, but for anything else . . . :)

[Steve Smith]

Edward, I hope I didn't push HP crap on you, I was actually trying to straddle the fence buy talking about the "defensive" use of the rifle. However, the marksmanship tools are the same.

The RRA trigger is not "known" to go to single stage, but some have been made with too little engagement. This is easily corrected and the trigger will last a good long time then, and will not require constant adjustment like many on the market will.

There is nothin wrong with the cloth web sling, except that it is ugly. IT is a good strong sling and it can support a position easily.

The contact info for the clinic is on its way via PM.

[Edward429451]

Edward, I hope I didn't push HP crap on you,

Aw no sweat steve, lol, the confusion was mine!:D You was just talkin like a HP shooter. Like you said, the tools are the same. Its just a new rifle that I've got to learn the idiosyncrasies (sp?) of.

Every little bit helps. I may have blew the August virtual match with the AR but there's always September hehe.

Lack of funds mean I have to wait on the trigger but I can pick up a cloth sling to practice with.

[Edward429451]

(The sight radius is still longer than my Mini's

Uhh, whoops. I was speakin off the cuff there and put my foot in my mouth. The sight radius is shorter on the AR than on the Mini. It may have a longer barrel but its set back more on the AR.:o Maybe!

Its even a shorter sight radius than on my 10/22 w/receiver mounted peep!

[Bartholomew Roberts]

This is easily corrected and the trigger will last a good long time then, and will not require constant adjustment like many on the market will.

I have a RRA trigger. Could you go over the process for correcting it?

[Jon Coppenbarger]

at work right now but will get back to you this evening

[Kamicosmos]

we have a class coming up on sept. 6th that should be able to really get you started right on shooting the ar15.

Hmmm. I have vacation then, and was thinking about going to Colorado as it is. (I'm in Kansas City.)

Couple questions that may change my vacation plans around:

Is the class full? Is there another one perhaps the next weekend?

Or, during that weekend, the following week, or that next weekend (Sept 6-13th) would anyone be willing to have a small private class or even just a short get together for some shooting (and maybe some off roading, which is my original plan?)

Now, if there is still room on the class, would I be able to use my Bushmaster Varminter if I brought it? I have this thing about using my own gun in something like that, but in light of traveling and such, I could use the class gun with out much worry. Just would be nice to point at MY gun and say I shot it at 600 yards!

feel free to email me at kamicosmos AT hotmail DOT com.

Thanks!

[Edward429451]

I took the AR back out this past sunday and things kinda fell into place. I got it dialed in. I shot it benched, sitting, rice paddy prone, and prone. I think this is an iron sight gun. No Star Wars add-ons needed. It'll do it on a human out to 300 or brain an Elk inside 100 so what else is needed? Past that the cartridge limits it, competition/groupshooting notwithstanding.

I bested into the high 80's with it (10 on a 100 yd Scorekeeper target) and averaged in the 70's. Pretty good For a new milspec rifle with no known ammo preferance yet. Just, shoot this its what I got (55's).

Got lucky and met an MP up there and he let me shoot his 50AE, DE and I let him shoot the AR. The guy showed me that this rifle (and ammo!) is capable of better than I was doing with it! So that is encouraging and not in the least disheartening because it gives me something to work toward. At least I don't have to wonder if it's the gun or me! OTOH, I did do better than him with his D..nah, shouldn't go there.

Actually, I got Extra lucky that day b/c I talked my wife into going again! Seems like ages since she's went shooting with me. She shot the AR a bunch and had a blast. She's almost as good as I am and the stock is too long for her! She asked me if I could cut it down or get a shorter stock for it, hmmm. :D

I measured the length of pull at 13-1/2", but she is comfortable in the 12-1/2" sized youth stock of my sons 870YE, so...is there a youth sized AR stock? The collapsable ones would have to be pinned open b/c this is a post ban rifle. Any adjustable/short trapdoor stocks out there for the AR?

Maybe I'll just set this up for her and let her keep it. I mean,
everybody's wife should have an AR or a pump 20, right?! :D

Overall it was impressive and encouraging and fun, but it still didn't outshoot the M1A. It's about twice as precise as the AR, even in my hands. :D