[Big Boomer]

Are there any Anti-Gun Boards out there? I would like to implant myself as a raving lunatic lefty (incognito) and learn how the other side thinks.

If one could turn bad ideas into say really evil vial awful ideas to the point that it just screams quack, the credibility gets lost doesn't it?

Anyhow, just answer the first is fine.

Obviously there are PLENTY of gun boards...I know I'm a member of quite a few. There has to be a lunatic lefty site out there somewhere right? Preferably Anti-Gun but I'll take what I can get.

Thanks!

[Matt King]

I don't think there are any.
Not much support online for gun-control

[TexasRifleman]

Democratic Underground has it's moments.

As I said in a thread earlier, there just isn't much to talk about.

They don't actually have a large following particularly. They have a small number of donors that give LARGE amounts of money but they really don't have any large scale appeal because their arguments are, for the most part, absurd.

They throw statistics against the wall and hope they stick and as soon as you question them they go immediately to the emotional responses.

The anti politicians, even the McCarthy's etc, don't get elected because of their gun stances alone. These become pet projects for the most part.

There simply isn't much for the anti's to discuss but if you really wanna listen to it go sign up over at DU and look around.

[G36-UK]

I agree with TexasRifleman.

DU does have it's share of true progressives (that is, pro-gun), but there's some very nasty stuff comes from the antis over there.

[mljdeckard]

I used to blather in the imdb.com boards in the forums for Bowling for Columbine and other anti-gun movies, but I decided that my energy was better used in friendlier places.

[geekWithA.45]

Some thoughts:

1) Remember, we don't do flame wars with other forums here. Life's too short for that sort of nonsense.

2) To date, no anti-gun board that I know of has been able to maintain free, fair, and open discussions.

Those that have tried basically got slaughtered in the debates, and are forced to either close entirely or find a pretext to eject even perfectly civil and well behaved pro-gun participants rather than concede that their positions are based on nebulous hope and dreams for a better world supported by a mix of swiss cheese facts, logic, and history. (And that's being charitable, given the magnitude of outright lies, distortions and fabrications they've resorted to.)

[Standing Wolf]

I feel kind of sorry for anti-Second Amendment bigots: after all, they don't have caliber wars, brand bashing, or mall ninjas to get excited about. I've got to believe trying to deprive commoners of our freedom has to get boring before long.

[Big Boomer]

We are always preaching to the choir here. It would be a nice change to actually challenge someone that against you and not just in a caliber war.

I might say that to them we look like a star trek cult that debates about what type of photon torpedo will defeat the Klingon's shields.

The difference of course that we are real and we are backed by the constitution no matter how many try to take our liberties away from us.

[Siaharok]

You know, not all leftists are "raving lunatics". Some read this forum. Some even own firearms (gasp!). In my opinion, you're not doing the RKBA cause any favors by parroting those kind of partisan stereotypes.

[TexasRifleman]

nevermind.......my mistake

[Siaharok]

You know, YOU are the first person to use the word "left" in this thread. Was I? Quoting the OP:I would like to implant myself as a raving lunatic lefty

[Big Boomer]

I have many, many friends that are "leftist raving lunatics" and the reason I say this is because in all actuality they are libertarians but vote consistently democratic for only one specific issue or another. One, gay rights, the others, (were friends of JFK), another, tree hugger environmentalist.

They all loved guns but, but the problem is they could never vote for them! The one most important thing they should be voting for they don't! That by definition is lunacy!

But politics are verboten! So...No gun boards for the le....nm, Anti-Gun purple traitors :D

I was rather hoping there was, but it seems only those having profound logic can have compelling discussions about guns.

[nollsp]

Leave them be.

I like it just the way it is around here without some wingnut interrupting every thread...and they probably like it just the way it is over there discussing new tofu recipes and new ways to pimp out their Prius.

Our freedoms apply equally to all...even them.

[dubious]

As a lefty and rabid gunny, I can tell you the reason there are not many anti gun forums.

The truth is that anti gunners are, in general, a silent majority. There are very few anti-gunners who consider guns a major political issue, yet they would be happy to vote for an assault weapons ban. I too have a lot of other political issues I am more concerned about (The Environment, Health Care, The First Ammendment, Avoiding unnecessary military agression, certain Executive Privileges), but am passionate about the 2A. We all know the Brady Bunch doesn't have anywhere close to the financial or infrastructure resources of the NRA, but they do have a large and dispassionate political base. Those dispassionate people are too busy working on the issues I mentioned above to bother with anti gun forums.

Really, it's a no brainer... how much more fun is it to talk about shootin guns than bannin em?!

As for me, some of you might dislike my opinions on the other issues, but consider me an ambassador to the other side. 280 posts and counting!

[Siaharok]

My post #11 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4501612&postcount=11) above is no longer clear because TexasRifleman subsequently edited his post to say "never mind". His original post is what I quoted above, and what is pasted in full below. I don't like to edit posts except for grammatical errors, so I think it is only fair for me to clarify my position by pasting his original, unedited post, which was directed towards me:

You know, YOU are the first person to use the word "left" in this thread. Neither was the word "Republican" or "Democrat" used.
Democratic Underground is simply the name of a website, no partisan stereotyping there.

Up until now we've been talking about anti-gun bigots.

Seems odd that you're the first one to see a problem where none exists. How very stereotypical left wing of you yes?

[TexasRifleman]

Yeah that's what happens when posts overlap. I was changing as you were posting. Sorry bout that, I missed the OPs statement.

[DonP]

I looked around for Anti boards a few months ago and couldn't find any.

That was about the time that the Brady Bunch shut off the comments section on both Helmke's blog and their MySpace page where Pro comments were outnumbering anti's by about 20 to 1.

Anti's miss out on a lot online.

Sure they have an occasional rant on DU or HuffPo, but even there they often wind up facing gun owners with facts and that really ticks them off.

They don't get to go to the "Anti-Range" on the weekend and talk with other antis about why their nonexistent carbine is shooting high at 200 yards.

They never get to tell another anti next to them about the Garand they didn't buy and how it was issued to the Marines in 1942 and how it served in the Pacific, always wondering which island sand or lava rocks made those priceless gouges in the stock.

They have no reason to go online and ask other antis about why their Beretta 92 is having FTF issues and what ammuniton might not work better.

They can't talk about what they didn't see or didn't get a chance to shoot at Knob Creek or Camp Perry.

They never take their kids hunting with them so they don't get to sit in a small town Iowa diner before dawn over Tofu burgers and talk about last years non hunt for pheasant.

I kind of feel sorry for the pathetic losers with nothing but foam at the corners of their mouth when they see the word gun in print anywhere.

[Neo-Luddite]

There are only so many flavors and degrees of the phrase "Guns are bad".
Those infected by this meme accept it and seek no deeper meaning or debate; asking further questions only threatens their worldview--and isn't very interesting as a result.

What I think you're looking for, an anti-board that has a solid base of technical and practical knowledge about guns has been tried--but it's creation was almost a literal fiction.

I refer of course to the American Hunters and Shooters Association. They pretend a love of shooting and hunting and purport to 'know' the technical specs on firearms--

but they failed to take off. Anti's didn't care except that it was a clever trojan horse or strawman org to issue press releases and (hopefully) dupe a few of the worlds "Bubbas" along the way. Real gun people who read a page or two could see that thwey were 'faking the funk' 100% and didn't buy in.

It takes a Turk to Know a Turk.

[Art Eatman]

Probably find anti-hunting groups. Probably could stir things up at environmental sites.

But to repeat, leave THR out of any effort. Don't even mention us. We don't get into squabbles with other websites. It winds up as a waste of time and bandwidth.

Art

[The Tourist]

Obviously there are PLENTY of gun boards

I'd like to comment on that assumption. Just because a board uses firearms as a central theme, don't assume that the RKBA is the main ideology.

As many of you know, I'm a forum junkie. I like new things and ideas, I try out boards for info on the hobbies I have, and some forums are used for my job.

After +12 years of participation, I can state that fully 2/3s are simply a waste of time and are managed by people who are outright fakes. You have guys who really know nothing about knives, or a "sensei" who hasn't been in a dojo for over a decade, or guys who have never ridden motorcycles.

Once every six months I go through my "favorites" list and dump about four to six forums. Mostly from lack of use. If I cannot remember the last time I signed on, I delete the address.

To relate this idea to this thread, I am wavering on a decision to dump yet another firearms forum. One of the major signs is "whining."

For example, if a guy is a real biker he doesn't "whine" about his treatment, he picks up a barstool and breaks it over your back. The same idea with guns, knives and MA. If the guy is the real-deal, he can debate a solid clear idea.

This is a double-edged sword in the area of firearms. If a guy doesn't really own guns, use them or associate with real target-shooters then he has no true vested interest on legislation pro or con to our sport. Why would a poser care if a target range is plowed under for a stirp mall? There might be a new video game store constructed, and hence, something he actually cares about.

If lead is outlawed by the EPA and bismuth mandated, what does the faker care? He's not consuming bullets, he doesn't have to find new ways to cast them or pay for lobbyists to blunt legislation.

So, my point is that real damage to the RKBA may not come from leftists, but by boards who claim that 2A is their core belief.

Have I experienced that? You bet. I got banned from a motorcycle forum because I actually own a motorcycle. I asked too many questioned, and used real 1960's jargon to sift out fakers. (I used the term "mousetrap.")

Your real enemies could be guys you know.

[callgood]

Siaharok
New Member

Join Date: 03-08-08
Posts: 28 You know, not all leftists are "raving lunatics". Some read this forum. Some even own firearms (gasp!). In my opinion, you're not doing the RKBA cause any favors by parroting those kind of partisan stereotypes.

That's a good point. After a high power match at my range conversation turned to politics and the "what will you do when those liberal Democrats" etc., etc.,.

One guy said, "Well I"M a liberal Democrat, and no one's taking MY Garand!"

Although gun grabbers may TEND to be of one political persuasion, no party is immune from it. And none can be universally painted with the same brush. Take your allies where you find them.

DonP
Senior Member

Join Date: 12-25-02
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,105

I looked around for Anti boards a few months ago and couldn't find any.

That was about the time that the Brady Bunch shut off the comments section on both Helmke's blog and their MySpace page where Pro comments were outnumbering anti's by about 20 to 1.

Anti's miss out on a lot online.................


Thanks for that post!

[Rugerlvr]

I used to consider myself a solid Democrat. But after watching John Kerry bumble around, and having to listen to the two running now snip and snipe, I've come to the conclusion that I'm NOT a democrat. I'm not a Republican either, because I can't agree with their social agenda. I guess I'm a raving lunatic middle-of-the-roader and civil libertarian, who really likes guns.

[Good Shot Group]

If you want a lefty conspiracy site, this one takes the cake, ucimc.org/ It's in Champaign Illinois, the other Cook County.
They not only post about guns and tazers but on the horrible state of the crooked police, etc. Click on the new posts tab when you go to the website. It has been a real eye opener to read their comments about social issues and justice.

[Kitchen_Duty]

probably would be easier to find some anti gun groups and just email the crap out of their servers. If we send 1 email a day from every member of THR and TFL. That would be (active members only): 6,533(tfl) + 13,419 (THR). 19952 emails a day. Soon, they would just cry when they opened outlook over a three day weekend (memorial day or 4rth of July). Add in Glock Talk, 1911.com, Ar15.com, all of the crazies on the Saiga forum (i want a Saiga so bad...), I think that would be a fun little project.

[SuperNaut]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm NOT a democrat. I'm not a Republican either, because I can't agree with their social agenda. I guess I'm a raving lunatic middle-of-the-roader and civil libertarian, who really likes guns.

You and me both. If you are a solid Jeffersonian Constitutionalist, you have zero political representation.

As to the OP: I am a member of a few different boards one of which is so far left that there is frequent Stalin apologia, another that is so far right it makes THR look like HuffPo. While there is 2a debate on the lefty board I have come to the conclusion that it is by and large pointless; just as debating the War on Drugs is pointless on the righty board. IOW, there are better ways to spread your message than the huge ocean of the intertubes.

p.s I recognize the posting style of a few THR/TFL members on a certain lefty board.:)

[NG VI]

I've been spending more time over at DU lately, it gets hot and heavy when a certain handful of members gets interested in a thread. They are really something, if you want to see a board that has people on both sides battling it out, that's your best bet.

Keeps me amused.

[Rachen]

That was about the time that the Brady Bunch shut off the comments section on both Helmke's blog and their MySpace page where Pro comments were outnumbering anti's by about 20 to 1.


The Brady Bunch is a lot like the Falun Gong. In Chinatown, the FLG used to have hundreds of display stands. At first, they support "freedom of speech", but when that speech turned out to be VERY patriotic , the FLG traitors shut down their display stands, and now, me, and many others, can shop in Chinatown again without any more harrassment and BS from these traitors.

[Green Lantern]

Democratic Underground has it's moments.

"THAT'S putting it mildly, 007!"

There are some great pro-gun posters on there, but some very zealous antis as well.

But the site lives up to geek's statement:

2) To date, no anti-gun board that I know of has been able to maintain free, fair, and open discussions.

Meaning you'd either have to just lurk, or "implant" yourself as the OP stated if you want to participate in discussion - there is NO room for opinions from people they know (or suspect) harbor any "Rethuglican" ideas...:what:

Then again, I've yet to see any OPENLY anti-gun people post on pro-gun boards that allow for people of all opinions to state them. This can lead to a lot of...discomfort at times. Things got downright ugly back when Ron Paul was still in the running, I've seen quite a few people were accused of being "Brady Moles" trying to split the conservative vote...! :eek:

On one hand, I feel that it's suicidal for a gun group to ban political discussion - then on the other hand, I look at stuff like the above and think that maybe it IS for the best...!

[siglite]

I've had similar experiences as The Tourist on both gun and Motorcycle boards. There are some boards which are run by, and are frequented by the real deal. It tends to be obvious when that's the case. Though... I got fooled by one. Badly. I obviously won't name names, but it can be disappointing when you realize that a place which claims to be about the 2nd amendment, well, would make the founding fathers cry.

Honestly, the best way to keep tabs on the gun grabbers bull**** du jour, is to subscribe to the Brady lists and keep on top of the VPC press releases.

[mike101]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/the-nra-on-sen-john-mccai_b_101621.html

[Ohio Rifleman]

I've got nothing but respect for those of you who "keep tabs" on the Brady Bunch and other anti-gun orgs. I just don't have the stomach to deal with anti-gun nonsense on a daily basis myself. Shooting down the same arguments over and over gets rather boring, and it's like hunting cows with a hammer. Easy, but hardly sporting. (I heard that expression somewhere, but it eludes me at the moment.)

[Cosmoline]

There are certainly plenty of anti-gun threads on various forums. But I've never found any forums that would constitute the anti-THR. In fact almost all the "grass roots" stuff on line is really astro turf funded by the usual suspects.

When you have antis in a room, they have almost nothing to talk about other than us. Whereas we have a whole universe to discuss without even getting into political issues.

[Rachen]

Shooting down the same arguments over and over gets rather boring,

Not only that, but some of the hardcore antis just refuse to learn any new facts, despite the fact that people bring them up again and again. I have debated with some of these people in the past. The more facts you present them with, the more in denial they will be, until it gets to the point where you just want to end the conversation and leave, since it is pointless, standing there and wasting your time.

[jrfoxx]

Then again, I've yet to see any OPENLY anti-gun people post on pro-gun boards that allow for people of all opinions to state them. This can lead to a lot of...discomfort at times.
There have actually been a few who came here, or to TFL and poseted. just a few though. And they were far from what I would call rabid. The ones I recall were very polite, respectful, actually read and thought about what people posted, and seemed to be basically fence-sitters who were just a llittle over onto the anti side.

The ones I recall reading, semed to be genuinely interestd in hearing our side, and willing to listen to reason and facts and respond in kind. They were able to leave irrational parroting and emotion out of it for the most part.

None stuck around very long at all, but I think they learned something, and left with something to think about, if nothing else, that WE were rational, factual,reasonable, normal, and not the "evil, hostile lunatics" like we are often portrayed by the screaming, emotional anti types.. These are obviously more rare exceptions to the typical anti.

I think they genuinely came to hear our side, learn about us and our views, (for what reason, who knows for sure), and seemd to do it out of genuine intellectual curiousity mostly, but some also seemed to be intellient enough to be using it as a way to learn to try and counter us, and engage in debate, without coming off like shrieking loons, and thus getting mosty ignored by our side, and clearly doing nothing to futher thier cause, or come off as the "moral, peaceful, thinking ones" in the debate, like they beleive they are.

Smart move on thier part, if that was the cause.It's hard to come off as the "peaceful, moral, thiking" side when you do nothing but make personal attacks, scream obscenities, ramble, act crazy and irratonal, and respond to calm, and facts with hostility and emotion only. :p

I know several people here a on TFL have gone to DU, Huffpo, Brady blog, etc for the same reason. to learn, adapt, and better their own debate skills for the future, while portrayin us as smart rational, calm people with facts, and not "dumb, crazy rednecks" like we can be portrayed and/or stereotyped by the more hard core antis and thier propoganda.

I to to DU once in a while to see whats up for entertinment (some of the stuff you read, if you can control your blood pressure, will boggle your mind :D:eek:), but never have posted. There are a fair number of rational, intelligent "regulars" there who do quite wellf or our side,but dont get dismissed out of hand like one of us probly would be as a new member, especially if they find out you are not a democrat (as most of the regulars I mention are.) , and are only there to be in the gun section, and only to debate at that.They participate in much more than just the gun debates there,as they are dems and agree with most others there for the most part on the dem ideolgy, so I think that helps them not just get ignored or banned, since they are "one of them", aside from the gun thing, for the most part.

Makes for some interesting reading, for sure.

[The Tourist]

I've had similar experiences as The Tourist...I got fooled by one. Badly.

So did I. The problem is that the computer is becoming more and more a useful tool for news. They just re-vamped our local newspaper, and it's simply a USA Today rip-off. My SIL claims that she turns to the BBC if she wants to find out anything important. Granted, the "spin" drives me up a wall, also.

I think part of the issue here is that "we want to believe." We want to know that our country still values a one-man-one-vote style of government which directly derives from The Framers, and 2A is still important to America.

Then you find out the clown you've been corresponding with for several months doesn't even own a motorcycle. They might not even be a male of adult age. That mechanical hum in the background isn't a shovelhead, it's their mom's dryer.

So, what do we do to fix this? Right now, in your country, tens of millions of people want to install a woman for the highest position in the world after she outright lied about being in "sniper fire."

Do we have to mandate an "acid test" for reliable information and a viable way to document credentials?

[peacenik]

... I am still a democrat, but a southern one - I believe in the death penalty and RKBA. I mainly end up arguing about how bad a choice Obama is (Clinton can actually win, and i wouldn't be scared if she did, like I would with Obama), and the arguments can be intense. I never post in the gun forum there - but I've lurked and I've seen people change their mind about the issue, usually from anti- to pro-, if it happens.

A friend of mine, a philosophy professor, took a job out in California in the bay area. Like me, he's on the left - but he's living in Oakland, and so he quickly realized he might need a gun, got one, and has been practicing. He's drawn nothing but heat from his colleagues in the academic elite. One night, he was out with a few of them in a bar, 2 guys come in and rob the place, pistol-whip the bartender and take off with the till. My friend got a call the next day from one of his hippie friends, wanting to know the details of which gun he should get. This doesn't mean any of us would consider the Republican outlook - we're all pro-choice, think perpetual warfare is an insane and expensive idea, hate the GOP double-talk on cutting spending when they're addicted to debt.
It would just be nice to see more people on our side come to their senses on guns. Pistol-whipping seems harsh.

[Green Lantern]

It would just be nice to see more people on our side come to their senses on guns.

I agree. I know several Democrats who are gun owners. I even know some local ones that hold State and National offices that are pro-gun...

Unfortunately...I don't know about the regular joes, but the politicians seem to be more of the EXCEPTION than the NORM. Less so nationally MAYBE, but much so at the State level IMO.

It's enough to cause me to think long and hard about who to vote for next time in the State races. On one hand, I like either candidate. But on the other hand, it's a Democrat state with some VERY "anti" Dems in office. NC isn't the worst for gun rights, but we sure aren't the BEST, and I don't see things getting any better gun-wise under Democrat leadership. UNLESS we get a LOT more pro-gun ones in there...

[mike101]

Rachen said:
"The more facts you present them with, the more in denial they will be, until it gets to the point where you just want to end the conversation and leave, since it is pointless, standing there and wasting your time."

True, it's like banging your head against a wall IF you are trying to convert the antis who are posting. But we're not trying to do that. That surely would be a waste of time. We're there to win the hearts and minds of the fence-sitters, and people who only think they are anti-gun, because they've only heard one side. They've never heard the truth.

It works. We bag a few now and then.

[Rachen]

True, it's like banging your head against a wall IF you are trying to convert the antis who are posting. But we're not trying to do that. That surely would be a waste of time. We're there to win the hearts and minds of the fence-sitters, and people who only think they are anti-gun, because they've only heard one side. They've never heard the truth.

It works. We bag a few now and then.

I have converted a good number of antis over the years, some through my reading of American Rifleman on a crowded subway train. Always starts conversations, and when a conversation starts, it's an opportunity to teach the folks about responsible gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment. Once, I was talking to this Manhattan liberal on my commute, and two more people standing next to where I was sitting also joined the conversation. One was a fellow gunnie, it turned out:D, the other one converted easily, and the man I was initially talking too ended up saying that he loves America for what it stands for and is going to join the NRA to show his beliefs:D:D He wasn't really an anti but he never browsed the gunnie websites either.

When talking to people and wanting to make them come to your side on these issues, it is ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT to maintain a polite atmosphere, and always be civilized, even if you get hit with swearing or very biased talk. It is just like a job interview, display yourself in the utmost courteous and civilized manner.

[MakAttak]

Not only that, but some of the hardcore antis just refuse to learn any new facts, despite the fact that people bring them up again and again. I have debated with some of these people in the past. The more facts you present them with, the more in denial they will be, until it gets to the point where you just want to end the conversation and leave, since it is pointless, standing there and wasting your time.

It's not just the anti's. More people in general seem to be like this. Someone here has a signature that has a quote from Thomas Sowell, I believe, about how it is difficult to educate someone who is smug in their ignorance.

I've seen it all over. I was out to dinner with a couple that is our good friends (they are as liberal as can be, my fiancee and I are about as opposite them as possible) and we were debating economics.

For all our other disagreements, they understand economics well. The waiter comes over and makes some comments about the Great Depression (I believe it may have been included in our conversation). I explained to him that the economy had actually started to improve as FDR took office and then tanked after his "New Deal." I talked about how the money supply had been manipulated and a number of other problems with the new deal (I'm summarizing, I'd rather not bore you all with the intricacies).

He says, "well, I just don't beleive that."

I stopped talking. I refuse to deal with someone who is willfully ignorant.

If someone gives me some new statistic, I will not reject it. I may be leary and need to verify, but this person who inserted himself into our conversation simply refused to believe what was said.

I think these things occur because our schools are teaching children to feel, not think and judge.

[mike101]

To give you an idea of the kind of elitist thinking you're going to be up against, this was posted on Helmke's Huffpo Blog yesterday.

"considering who was elected in 2004, you may be correct when you say the average peasant shouldn't be allowed vote. it will take decades for our country to recover from what has been done to it in the last 8 years.

i read a conservative blogger recently who was saying it's only taken bush 8 years to destroy what it took decades for the gop to achieve.

who were those people who voted for him? bush played the fear card and they believed him. reminds me of so many nra members. the nra plays the fear card and they all drink the kool aid."

This person goes by username MMimi. She used to go by 'Macca', on the old Brady Blog. We used to accuse her of being a paid employee of the BC, which she denied til blue in the face. Turns out she was lying. Imagine that. She's on the board, and is also a bigshot in the Million Mom organization.

So, if you're an average peasant like me, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to vote either. ;)

[lionking]

Well I have engaged in debate over firearms on a couple other boards that have a wide array of topics pop up with members who idealogy is across the board.Most Americans supported the 2nd amendment you'll be happy to know including some left leaning members.

On a international site I engaged in a "guns bad vs good" debate and most American members support it though some were embarrassing with a attitude of "America is the best,feck off" which doesn't help in image of Americans toward intrnational members.

Some Brits in the debate were for or against,all Irish and Scottish were very anti gun,Aussies were like the Brits,Canadians were majority pro gun,a couple from Greece and Holland were anti gun.

But I remained level headed and didn't attack their way of life,and I saw a gradual softening on their stance.Some remained totally anti but the thinking caps went on.

Socialism is revered in Britian,Scotland,Ireland and Europe.I have come to see this after engaging them but these guys were very educated in their responses compared to some Americans sadly.They don't view government as seperate from the people but part of the people.I hammered away at individual rights vs collective rights and again I could see a softening of their stance over the course of debate because I didn't atack them I defended mine and trutfully they made a few good points themselves.

I saw some who started very anti gun and pre conceived notions about Americans soften to actually agreeing a little about guns and Americans because I challenged them yet gave them respect also instead of belittling them with "America is best F the rest attitude".

[Hk91-762mm]

All I want to know is --What gun is best for a school shooting ==AND Why cant I have a Bazooka for deer hunting!
Not to mention that My private parts are very small and I need a Jumbo Caliber to compensate..
These guys are mostly Liberal and fun to play with -I could use some help :)
http://boards.myway.com/jsp/boardview.jsp?bid=264

[John-Melb]

I really like the suggestion someone made about emaiing anti groups daily.

Try this one to meet a real loopy

pres@guncontrol.org.au

As for boards that are anti, I still believe this one fits the bill "aussieseek.proboards", they claim not to be, but join as a pro-gunner and start countering the rantings of their resident anti-nut, and see how soon it gets nasty.

[akodo]

The Tourist writes

This is a double-edged sword in the area of firearms. If a guy doesn't really own guns, use them or associate with real target-shooters then he has no true vested interest on legislation pro or con to our sport. Why would a poser care if a target range is plowed under for a stirp mall? There might be a new video game store constructed, and hence, something he actually cares about.

If lead is outlawed by the EPA and bismuth mandated, what does the faker care? He's not consuming bullets, he doesn't have to find new ways to cast them or pay for lobbyists to blunt legislation.

This to my ears rings both wrong and elitist.

I have liberitarian friends who have zero interst in personally owning a gun, but strongly support the idea that it should be legal if you so choose.

I know many straight people who support same sex marrage, but are straight.

I know many men who are pro life, and many men who are pro choice, but by definition, their vested interest in that topic is much lesser than women.

I strongly support due process, yet I am not a lawyer nor ever been charged with a crime.

When you are talking about supporting RIGHTS it is different than chatting about a hobby. Someone need not be heavily involved in the hobby angle, be it guns or taking pictures of nude women, to be strongly in favor of fighting for both to stay legal.

Turning down those folk or driving away people you label as 'pretenders' because they aren't as deeply involved in the hobby as others is doing a disservice to us all. Many people like to decry fudds, but it is attitudes like this that drive a wedge between casual gun owners and those members who burn thousands of rounds yearly.

[koja48]

In a word: HIGHROAD. Let's keep it such. I'd much rather converse/argue/agree to disagree/tell bald-faced lies with fellow gun owners/shooters/hunters/kindred spirits.

[siglite]

Well said akodo. I know some very pro 2a people who aren't what I'd consider anywhere NEAR my immersion level into shooting. And these people understand the 2nd, and all of it's meaning. This includes the idea behind Madison's comparison of the militia to the standing armies in #46. Are they shooters? Sure, they own some guns, but I've never seen them at ANY of the local ranges on ANY weekend. Do they hunt? Yeah, they say they do. And I take their word for it. Some of them even claim to have CCW permits, but I know they can't carry where I interact with them.

And despite the fact that they aren't out on the line with me every weekend, they're incredibly valuable to our cause. Know why they're so valuable to our cause? Because they're senators and delegates in my state legislature.

[The Tourist]

This to my ears rings both wrong and elitist.

I did not mean to offend you, but it's a real problem.

In fact, I know guys who we would term "suburban shootgun enthusiasts" who don't understand why we should even defend 'black rifles.' They have no need for such ordnance, so they throw them under the bus.

I have heard of this strategy called "the baby from the sleigh" gambit. The idea is that your sleigh is being chased by wolves (gun-grabbers), so you toss them a little baby in hopes of satisfying their hunger. Of course, this just makes them bolder.

Of course, many people like guns, but don't own them or have large collections. Yes, some non-hunters buy a license just to protect the sport. But for the most part, they do not. It's easy to fall into the same trap. I can't say I've ever been to a rally to protect the rights of snowmobilers.

As this relates to the debate, how can I as a forum member really know if the board is active in protecting RKBA or just spouting? After all, we have mall ninja boards where some of the biggest yakkers have never thrown a punch. How can I discern if the time I spend is with like-minded people?

The truth is, I have been sucked in before and fooled. So yes, I'm more careful. As stated, I've just about had it with whiners on another board.

Let's face it, a dentist who buys a Sportster to impress women is going to cut and run if serious legislation gets enacted. He'll sell the bike and buy a boat.

Sorry if that sounds elitist, but I've seen it.

[USMC 1975]

My feeling is that time better spent would be contacting politicians and fighting various laws that localities like to enact.

The energy spent posting on anti sites would probably be better spent fighting from the trenches of the real world where assinine laws are being proposed.

JMHO,

Chris

[mike101]

"My feeling is that time better spent would be contacting politicians and fighting various laws that localities like to enact."

Also a good thing to do, and many of us do write to politicians, Supreme Court justices, etc.. But, we think that there is a good chance that these people also look in on some of the higher-profile antigun blogs, like Brady and anything else on Huffpo.

You never know who's lurking.

[Green Lantern]

(To USMC 1975) Maybe - but don't forget that the antis and even some fence-sitters can and DO do that too. Trying to convert the latter can help reduce the impact the antis have on politicians.

To that effect, I'd say that if you're going to do it, it might be more productive to focus on websites aimed primarily at members of your own country, or even state for maximum effect.

[mgregg85]

Ah Rachen, still trying to sneak communist propaganda on an RKBA forum I see...

The Brady Bunch is a lot like the Falun Gong. In Chinatown, the FLG used to have hundreds of display stands. At first, they support "freedom of speech", but when that speech turned out to be VERY patriotic , the FLG traitors shut down their display stands, and now, me, and many others, can shop in Chinatown again without any more harrassment and BS from these traitors.

Falun Gong is a persecuted religious group, not traitors.
This is from wiki...
In April 1999, 10,000 Falun Gong practitioners silently appealed at the Chinese Communist Party headquarters at Zhongnanhai against recent beatings and arrest in Tianjin.[8][9][10] Two months later, the Chinese government began a large-scale persecution, including widespread propaganda, torture, illegal imprisonment, forced labour, and psychiatric abuses. Falun Gong comprise 66% of all reported torture cases in China, and at least half of the labour camp population.]

Does the PRC pay you to post this trash?

[everallm]

The one I wander onto now and again, when I feel I need a tweaking of the blood pressure, is the wonderfully named

Gun Guys

http://www.gunguys.com/

[Yellowfin]

You can find plenty on Maclife.com's Political forum, Myspace forums, Digg, and a few Facebook groups and Facebook Politics.

[Green Lantern]

Really, you're liable to find antis and fence-sitters at ANY board that allows for discussion of the topic. You probably won't know about the fence-sitters, but the antis...!!!

[lionking]

it is not so much about finding a anti gun site so you can enter the den of the lions but if you find a site that is general that has people from all walks of life and thought you can engage in debate and also see what others who disagree with you think and possibly get their mind thinking.

Also,while you may encounter a anti who is commited and won't change,there are the others watching and reading who are not in the spot of "winning" a debate that you may have a effect on.

I have constantly said as part of my debates is drugs should be legalized.Prohibition during the 20's created violence,the same is happening with drugs.Most gun crime is drug and gang related that they use violence to retain profit and control over the trade.

Bans whether on drugs,alchohol,drugs,guns,prositution,peyote or whatever often create more death and violence than it was meant to stop.It gives power to criminals and to certain elite in government while citizens who support it on morality grounds do not stop much of any use.But many both on the left and right don't want to hear that.