Economical way to get 30'06 dies from 308


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judaspriest
May 14, 2008, 12:41 AM
I have a couple of decent sets of 308 dies (RCBS & Hornady), but now need a 3006 set. I imagine the seating die would need to be different, but what about expanding/decapping one? Is there a way to realize any savings here or I need a full 30'06 set anyway?

I am not trying to be super-cheap, but if there is a safe way to save a little with no loss of quality, why not give it a try....

Thanks,

JP

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Wildfire
May 14, 2008, 12:53 AM
Hey there:
The .308 has a 20 Degree shoulder. The 30-06 has a 17 degree shoulder.
I can not see one die working for both.

TAB
May 14, 2008, 01:10 AM
find some one that wants 308 dies and will trade thier 30-06 for them.

Schleprok62
May 14, 2008, 02:27 AM
I got a set of RCBS 30-06 dies I'll swap for a set of 308's...

PM me...

http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/500/278330-06-dies-med.jpg

judaspriest
May 14, 2008, 07:27 AM
Hi guys,

Understood, I'll need a new set. Oh well, was worth checking :)

Schleprok62, thanks for the offer, but I would rather buy a new set instead.

Regards,

JP

Wildfire
May 14, 2008, 10:01 PM
Just so you can make a good decission.
if you are loading for an auto loader. You may need Small base dies.
If you are loading for a Bolt gun, Full length dies or neck sizing dies.
You can however just go with the full length dies and back them up some if just neck sizing.

Small base dies will set the base ofthe brass at min. specs so feeding in an auto loader will no be an issue.
Full length dies will size all the way down but not as small as the SB dies.
Neck sizing will size only the neck where the bullet sits. And will let the brass stay at chamber specs. This will result in a tighter fit. You may have to push the shpoulder back just a few thousands to get the round to chamber.
have fun .

CBS220
May 14, 2008, 10:16 PM
What is with the sudden urge for everyone to get SB dies?

Totally pointless, IMO. The only actual reason I have ever heard for anyone buying them is to correct the dimensions of brass that had been fired in MGs.

Full length dies will work just fine.

Wildfire
May 14, 2008, 10:30 PM
Hey there:
I am quite sure I am not about to enlighten you . But, For semi autos that "need" flawless feeding SB dies are the way to go. Some guns have smaller chambers and do not feed reliabaly with the full length dies.
I am not saying they are for accuracy. Not....
Just for more reliable feeding. ARs and such can at times be fussy.

VARifleman
May 14, 2008, 10:39 PM
The seating die wouldn't necessarily be different, although the extra 12mm may be too much. If you have a .308 seating die and don't use it to crimp, then you can use a micrometer seater to go down from .30-06 to .308. It would require some work to make sure it would work for both, but one cartridge's seater will work for the another of the same caliber, as long as the lengths are no so different that you run out of adjustment on the seating stem.

Wildfire
May 14, 2008, 10:53 PM
Hey There'
You are right , as long as the brass was all fired from that gun ONLY.

Sunray
May 14, 2008, 10:53 PM
"...SB dies are the way to go..." FL dies worked just fine for semi-auto's long before there was such a thing as SB dies.
"...I need a full 30-06 set anyway?..." Yes, but the shell holder is the same.

Wildfire
May 14, 2008, 11:11 PM
Hey there:
Why in the world did all these die makers produce Small base dies anyway ?
Oh well .
Dirty dogs , they were just creating an other marketing scheme.

After working on many different autos and finding some that would not "RELIABLELY" feed full length sized rounds we found that some needed SB dies. Maybe the guns you own and load for do not.

MMCSRET
May 14, 2008, 11:47 PM
SB dies are also recommended for savage 99, Remington pumps,and especially for Browning semi-autos

CBS220
May 14, 2008, 11:49 PM
I think you've bought in to the manufacturer's (and the gun rag writer's) spiel hook, line, and sinker.

Unless you're totally negligent, it's not difficult to put together a load that works quite well in any given semi (yes, even ARs) with FL dies.

Although according to the interwebs it cannot be done, I've even done it with necksized brass!

They're a new(ish) commodity, and I find it difficult to believe that as old as reloading is, that they came on to the scene so recently were the need for them so great.

Wildfire
May 14, 2008, 11:56 PM
That's Ok . There is an intended use for SB dies, And at time a need for them.
Using brass that came from another gun could qualify the need.

But then again if you really don't need them , don't use them. All I stated was their intened use. He can buy and use what ever he wants to...

judaspriest
May 15, 2008, 11:58 PM
I think I'll start with the full-size dies first and if I start seeing problems, will consider trying the SBs

Thanks for the info guys

jp

R.W.Dale
May 16, 2008, 12:03 AM
I find that when people take the time to adjust a full length die properly the precieved need for SB dies magically disappears. YOU MUST cam the press over against the bottom of the Full length die, anything less is partial resizing.

I've loaded for autos, pumps and Savage 99's I have yet to own a set of small base dies

Wildfire
May 16, 2008, 12:46 AM
Hey there:
While I totally understand the ones here against the use of SB dies, i must add that when match chambers in guns like the AR-15s are very tight and one experiances feeding problems . the Small base dies can be of value.
I too use full length dies. I have even had some dies or shell holders that would not allow max sizing. I trimmed the shell holders a few .000" and the problem went away.
Again I did not advise to use these dies as much as I explained their use and said that they may be needed. Not that they will be needed. If I did then I guess I was wrong. That was not what I meant to say.

Anyway. He sounds like he has it figured out for now.

longdayjake
May 16, 2008, 01:09 AM
I have a friend that had to go to small base dies to get his garand to cycle consistently. Mine has no problems on the otherhand.

Wildfire
May 16, 2008, 01:19 AM
Hey There:
You just said it. IF you experiance enough different auto loaders you will come to one that will need SB dies sooner or later. Been there done that. I could not get the full length dies to work on several rifles in the past.
Most work but some are just too tight.
That is the only reason I brought up the SB dies in the first place, to save the guy starting a new thread asking why his rounds would not go.
They may work fine , That would be nice. If they don't he now has an option.
Happy loading all.

dmftoy1
May 16, 2008, 08:55 AM
I find that when people take the time to adjust a full length die properly the precieved need for SB dies magically disappears. YOU MUST cam the press over against the bottom of the Full length die, anything less is partial resizing.



Just curious if you've ever picked up any LC "once fired" .308 from Midway? I had the same opinion until I tried to process a batch of that stuff. W/O a SB die that stuff would NOT chamber in my Savage 10FLP . .the machine guns that stuff had been fired in was definately not friendly to just regular FL sizing.

FWIW.

USSR
May 16, 2008, 11:45 AM
W/O a SB die that stuff would NOT chamber in my Savage 10FLP . .the machine guns that stuff had been fired in was definately not friendly to just regular FL sizing.

Yep, a SB die makes life a whole lot easier when resizing MG fired brass. Once you get it initially resized and fired in a rifle chamber, then a regular FL die is all that is needed. All I buy anymore is LC M118 LR Match brass; fired in M40A3 sniper rifles that are so tightly chambered, that all you need to do is necksize them.

Don

dmftoy1
May 17, 2008, 08:50 AM
Just out of curiosity . . .where do you get that brass and how much does it run?

Have a good one,
Dave

R.W.Dale
May 17, 2008, 09:39 AM
Just curious if you've ever picked up any LC "once fired" .308 from Midway? I had the same opinion until I tried to process a batch of that stuff. W/O a SB die that stuff would NOT chamber in my Savage 10FLP . .the machine guns that stuff had been fired in was definately not friendly to just regular FL sizing.

Sorry but I make a habit of NOT buying brass that's been fired in chambers that are grossly out of SAAMI spec. I don't care how cheap it is. That being said did you just run the die down on your raised shellholder on a full length die OR did you run the die in another 1/4 farther down after shellholder contact?

USSR
May 17, 2008, 04:11 PM
Just out of curiosity . . .where do you get that brass and how much does it run?

Dave,

I buy the M118LR brass, run it thru my tumbler and resell it. I sold over 18,000 pieces last year, and have sold 5,000 pieces so far this year. Just got a few more in; email me for details.

Don

CBS220
May 17, 2008, 05:29 PM
Just curious if you've ever picked up any LC "once fired" .308 from Midway? I had the same opinion until I tried to process a batch of that stuff. W/O a SB die that stuff would NOT chamber in my Savage 10FLP . .the machine guns that stuff had been fired in was definately not friendly to just regular FL sizing.

This is the one exception (Mainly MG-fired brass) that I believe I alluded to in my post. If you plan to shoot this stuff, an SB die is called for- but only once.

dmftoy1
May 17, 2008, 09:20 PM
Sorry but I make a habit of NOT buying brass that's been fired in chambers that are grossly out of SAAMI spec. I don't care how cheap it is. That being said did you just run the die down on your raised shellholder on a full length die OR did you run the die in another 1/4 farther down after shellholder contact?


Yup, resized EXACTLY per spec. I wasn't sure I was going to like shooting .308's at the time so the brass from Midway looked to be a good deal. You can bet I tried every combination/permuation of the FL die before I bought a SB die as I'm one cheap SOB. :)

Have a good one,
Dave

Gewehr98
May 18, 2008, 01:26 AM
What is with the sudden urge for everyone to get SB dies?

Totally pointless, IMO. The only actual reason I have ever heard for anyone buying them is to correct the dimensions of brass that had been fired in MGs.

Full length dies will work just fine.

I've got a tight-chambered 1969 Belgian Browning BAR in .30-06 that would argue otherwise. SB dies save me from having it sent to Browing for a chamber clean-up. ;)

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