[karandom]

I'm still a newbie here, but I have lurked on this board for a while. I have read way too many threads on too many gun subjects, and loved them all.


I am preparing to buy my first handgun in when I come back from Australia at the end of June. I've decided on 9mm, mainly for cost reasons. From their I started researching guns. I'm still in the air in between everything from XD's, to Glocks, Sigs, and CZ's.

I've come to realize something. Having not fired many pistols I'm confused about DA/SA pistols. I realized pistols like a Sig 226 are double action on the first shot and single action afterwards. However, is it possible to cock the hammer manually on the first shot and let the first pull be single action. If this is possible on certain pistols (not just the Sig) how would I identify the actions of the guns when I am looking into them.

Could also someone give me a run down on what Condition 1 (cocked and locked from what I recall) and the other "conditions" mean.

In short I am hoping someone could tell me or point out where I may find out about the differing pistol actions, what the "conditions" are and mean, and how I can differentiate things like manual safety versus decockers, etc.

Thanks in advance.

[FieroCDSP]

IF a gun can fire DA/SA, then it can probably be cocked manually. Glocks, XD's, the Smith M&P's (my personal recommendation) are all striker fired pistols. There's some debate as to whether the M&P is a SA or DA due to it's sear setup(which actually pulls the striker back a minute amount, thus filling the technical definition for DA).

The best way to figure things out is to fiddle with them in the gun store. A knowledgable salesperson is helpful in the selection process. Also, the manufacturer's website will have model info availiable.

Condition 1 is "cocked and locked" on a 1911 (ready to fire after safety is released) or a round chambered on a striker-fired or DA pistol. Cocked and locked is the only safe way to transport a loaded and chambered 1911. Striker-fired guns have a trigger safety that prevents the gun from going off unless the trigger is pulled by preventing the striker from moving. Most other hammer-fired guns are perfectly safe to carry hammer-down. A few 1911 clones (like the CZ75) are also designed to be carried cocked and locked.

Condition 2 (or is it three?) is a loaded gun but no round chambered, a singularly useless way to carry unless your handgun is your backup to a rifle.
Again, it's a matter of building up info from many sources. I don't claim to know everything, but I've picked up a lot in the two years I've been shooting just by keeping my ears open and asking questions.

[Killermonkey21]

Condition two is also known as the "Israeli Carry" I believe. It was used along with training for a "safer" way to carry, as it was trained to be drawn and charged (slide drawn back) as one motion.

One of the dangers is if your weak hand is disabled, or that first shot is time essential, then you are at a disadvantage.

I've heard stories of people being "alarmed" over a 1911 model having its hammer cocked, while it is generally the standard for carrying such model. Fiero had it pretty good in a nutshell.

Go to a gun-shop and ask to fondle the different makes and models to get a feel for the right gun. Don't go in with preconceptions if you have limited shooting experience. You might go in thinking "Glock, Glock, Glock" and buy it without fondling it. Its an investment. Do your research and be confident in your decision.

Oh, and if the gun-shop employees get annoyed by you wanting to pick up and fondle the guns, they probably don't want your business ;)

Carry on.

[karandom]

Thanks for info guys. I realize I need to fondle some guns, but I've turned 21 while spending a semester in Australia. I've been dying to get back to my rifles and buy my first pistol.

[DrLaw]

I went with a .357 as my first pistol.

I think I made a big mistake. I would start with a .22 now to get used to the difference between a rifle/shotgun and handgun shooting. There are a couple reasons.

Costs of practice, which is the way to get proficient. Cost of the gun, as you can generally get a good .22 for about half the price of some larger caliber guns, and ease of use.

It wasn't until a minor miracle occured that I managed to get to be a good shot - not great, just good. Now I like all forms of handguns, as I can shoot them without worrying about how big or small they are. The minor miracle for me was shooting a bunch of squib reload wadcutters. Somehow that worked for me. I haven't looked back since, but I know I would have done things different now.

Good luck and good shooting.

The Doc is out now. :cool:

[RustyShackelford]

I've seen many great deals on the SIG Sauer model P-225/P-6 surplus pistols from Germany. I think they were law enforcement trade ins, ;). The P-225 models have 8/9 round mags and work like the DA/SA model P-226s. They have the frame mounted de-cocker control. These used 9mmNATO SIGs run around $250-350.00. You can get a good deal then send the P-225 pistol to SIG sauer's main US headquarters for the CPO treatment. I think it's about $100-150.00USD. SIG will replace the pistol's barrel, springs, check it, re plate it, etc. Well worth it I'd say for a used SIG sauer pistol.

Rusty
www.gunsamerica.com
www.jgsales.com
www.sigsauer.com

[karandom]

Thanks for the advice on the .22 Doc. I have definitely considered it. However, having been shooting mostly my 10/22 at the public range, I want something centerfire (the range doesn't allow centerfire rifles :(). Depending on what pistol I end up with I might just buy a .22 conversion kit so I can practice with the "real" thing.


Rusty, I've seen those P6's deals around the web and they look pretty good. I've also seen sig certified pre owned 226's for about 500. If I decide on a sig, I will probably end up with that.

[AZ_Rebel]

The Conditions of Readiness were defined by Jeff Cooper to apply to single-action, manual safety, semi-auto, pistols; such as the M1911 or Hi-Power.

* Condition Zero: Loaded magazine in place, a round chambered, hammer cocked, safety off
* Condition One: Loaded magazine in place, a round chambered, hammer cocked, safety on
* Condition Two: Loaded magazine in place, a round chambered, hammer down
* Condition Three: Loaded magazine in place, chamber empty
* Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine