Hi-Point: Contender for Ugliest Gun of the Year?


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Sturmgewher
May 20, 2008, 04:32 AM
Looking through the pages of this years Guns Buyers Guide (trying to decide how best to do my part to stimulate the economy) I came across in the "H" section the Hi-Point series of auto loaders. This slab sided monstrosity looks as if it where designed by a either a government comitee or France. As is evidenced by the heavy slide, the blow back action Hi-Point relies on shear mass over quality materials to ensure it doesn't end the firing cycle implanted in the shooters face. The large extractor is a flat blade type that runs well back from the gaping ejection port, further evidence of this weapons cobbled together nature by people who are trying to fill a niche once dominated by Jennings, Davis and other cheap pistols for those who really want a gun and care little for quality and safety.
There are many who defend the Hi-Point as being a reliable pistol and maintain people who knock them are "gun snobs". Is a gun snob someone who appreciates quality materials assembled in a well thought out design? If so it is a mantle I gladly accept. Quality adds value and consequently dollar signs but you get what you pay for.
For $150 you can take home a Hi-Point, but it's like dating an ugly chick, it's all good till your friends see you. Why not save a few more bucks and pick up a well made entry level pistol like the kel-Tec P11? Or a Makarov?
The Hi-Point may work for mall warriors and posers but a real shooter isn't going to waste his time, money, or gun safe space on something like this ugly gun.

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evan price
May 20, 2008, 04:39 AM
Spoken like a gun snob who has never actually held, shot or seen a Hi-Point pistol in person...but I bet he really likes the HK's he plays with in Counterstrike...

:rolleyes:

Sure they are no Kimber. But if you are on a tight budget and you need a defensive weapon it beats a sharp stick in the eye.

Made in Ohio.
Customer service and follow up is excellent.
I have yet to find anyone who has had a truly bad experience with one of these.
Because of that big heavy slide they are very soft recoiling and are great to teach a new shooter on.
The epitome of the trunk gun. Throw it in a box, bag or drawer for a rainy day.

Oh, yeah.

I shouldn't feed the troll.

EHL
May 20, 2008, 04:41 AM
LOL!!!!:) THey are ugly!:barf:

makarovnik
May 20, 2008, 04:44 AM
The Hi-Point .380 is cheap and works very well. Again the trade off is they are not really safe to carry with one in the chamber. But ugly, come on. Everybody knows they are sexy beasts.

Ltlabner
May 20, 2008, 09:07 AM
Is a gun snob someone who appreciates quality materials assembled in a well thought out design? If so it is a mantle I gladly accept.

Amen.

I'm starting to beat a dead horse, I realize, but inexpensive for inexpensive's sake doesn't strike me as very wise when betting your life (and the life of your family) on the performance of a particular tool.

But hey, I guess if your family is only worth the cheapest option available you'll really be a leg up on us snobs.

tinygnat219
May 20, 2008, 09:21 AM
Actually,

Either the blocky HK, or the GLOCK takes the cake for ugly.

In simple terms, the Hi-Point product line is a budget version of the GLOCK. It's reliable, easy to shoot, and inexpensive. Those that disdain the Hi-Point really seem to miss the advantages offered: It's an affordable, reliable firearm that can be owned by anyone. If one can afford more expensive, they usually get more expensive. However, if one is living from paycheck to paycheck and lives in a bad part of town the Hi-Point offers an option for Self-Defense that they otherwise wouldn't have.

Sorry Gun Snobs, go play with your custom 2000 dollar pistols, and your Teutonic blocks of Tactical Tupperware. All we ask is that you keep your elitist comments to yourselves. The Hi-Point and other guns like it often mean the difference between being defenseless and not. It means I don't have to choose between affording the rent for the month and being a victim.

lee n. field
May 20, 2008, 09:27 AM
further evidence of this weapons cobbled together nature by people who are trying to fill a niche once dominated by Jennings, Davis and other cheap pistols for those who really want a gun and care little for quality and safety.

What I hear about them is that they actually do work reasonably well, and the manufacturer actually stands behind his generous warranty.

BryanP
May 20, 2008, 09:30 AM
But hey, I guess if your family is only worth the cheapest option available you'll really be a leg up on us snobs.

For some people a Hi Point is the best they can afford. Yes, they're ugly. However, they tend to be quite reliable. I can afford a nice SIG if I want one. Not everyone is that fortunate. Me, I don't begrudge them the right to purchase an affordable self defense option.

JDGray
May 20, 2008, 10:02 AM
The HP gets my ugly vote, followed by the fullsize Glocks:D

Tribal
May 20, 2008, 10:33 AM
I'm learning that, to a large extent, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (note: this does not apply to the BHP and the Beretta Cheetah, each of which is undeniably gorgeous). When I bought my first handgun, I thought the Glock was fugly and the USP had a sort of brutal beauty to it.

Now that I've got a 1911 and a BHP, I think the USP is just ugly. As for the Hi Point, while it's not pretty it has a certain utilitarian appeal to it. Sometimes that's what you're looking for (I'm a firm believer in the idea that an especially intimidating gun can cause people to think twice when they otherwise wouldn't); I'd arm a civilian security force with these without hesitation.

dwave
May 20, 2008, 11:13 AM
Hi-Point: Contender for Ugliest Gun of the Year?

Century.

Sorry Gun Snobs, go play with your custom 2000 dollar pistols, and your Teutonic blocks of Tactical Tupperware. All we ask is that you keep your elitist comments to yourselves. The Hi-Point and other guns like it often mean the difference between being defenseless and not. It means I don't have to choose between affording the rent for the month and being a victim.

Doesn't mean it still isn't ugly as sin.

mbt2001
May 20, 2008, 11:24 AM
I own several Glocks, Smiths, Rugers, Taurus, CZ's. I have owned more than that and traded them for other units. I also own Lorcin, sundance, Byrco, Jennings, Hi point.

I don't know why the second someone says they bought a SNS, someone starts babbling about "betting your life". When it comes down to it, I am actually betting my life on a $0.19 peice of brass....


My vote for ugly gun of the year...

http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/531/TEC-9.JPG

W.E.G.
May 20, 2008, 11:29 AM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/humor/hipoint.jpg

Schleprok62
May 20, 2008, 02:37 PM
Who cares?? At least it gives more people the option of taking advantage of their 2A right to keep and bear arms. (the law abiding ones)

As for reliable, it is far above average... Pretty, uh, ok... you got me there...

In a hobby/sport that is hurting for new blood, why bash someone for opting to buy a HiPoint over one of the more expensive makes? Remember, they're on our side...

Ltlabner
May 20, 2008, 02:46 PM
The Hi-Point and other guns like it often mean the difference between being defenseless and not. It means I don't have to choose between affording the rent for the month and being a victim.

Bravo Sierra

If you can scrimp and save to get the $150 for the HiPoint, why not scrimp and save another $150? This opens the door to a whole new range of budget weapons. Plenty of police trade ins Glocks, Smith & Wessons along with Sig P6's. Heck a local shop near me has a used but basically brand new S&W Sigma .40 GVE for $285 cash. The choice isn't $150 or $2000.

The "it's all I can afford" bit is usually code for: "I want to buy the cheapest thing out there so I can guy buy other fun stuff too". If it's so critical to have a weapon to defend yourself, why not put the effort into getting one you can count on?

Yea, I know. You can put 100,000 rounds through a HiPoint. :rolleyes:

Tribal
May 20, 2008, 03:06 PM
If you can scrimp and save to get the $150 for the HiPoint, why not scrimp and save another $150?

Some people are on really tight budgets and that second $150 you mentioned is money unavailable for ammo and range fees. Besides, if you're scared of an abusive ex-boyfriend it's a lot easier to come up with $150 than $300. If you're pulling in $30,000 per year it's not so bad, but what if you're a waitress (or God help you, a single mother)? You may barely be making ends meet as it is and pulling an extra $300 together in anything less than several months may be essentially impossible.

Cougfan2
May 20, 2008, 03:13 PM
Can't we just all get along? :rolleyes:

tinygnat219
May 20, 2008, 03:18 PM
If you can scrimp and save to get the $150 for the HiPoint, why not scrimp and save another $150? This opens the door to a whole new range of budget weapons. Plenty of police trade ins Glocks, Smith & Wessons along with Sig P6's. Heck a local shop near me has a used but basically brand new S&W Sigma .40 GVE for $285 cash. The choice isn't $150 or $2000.

I see, you are an expert on everyone's finances. You think with the rising cost of food and fuel that 150.00 isn't a lot of money for people? I gotta live where you are, the milk and honey must be fabulous. The guns you list above are easily twice the price of a standard Hi-Point, yet offer no warranty.

The "it's all I can afford" bit is usually code for: "I want to buy the cheapest thing out there so I can guy buy other fun stuff too". If it's so critical to have a weapon to defend yourself, why not put the effort into getting one you can count on?

If you read my original post, you will note that this is not my point. My point was that there are a lot of people living on the edge financially right now and the Hi-Point is an option that allows them to pay the rent and to defend themselves. Are there better guns out there? Certainly. However, not everyone can afford them. So please keep the elitist crap out of the posts.

Sturmgewher
May 20, 2008, 03:29 PM
Spoken like a gun snob who has never actually held, shot or seen a Hi-Point pistol in person
Seen and held the Hi Point .45ACP. After this quick examination, no, I didn't fire it.
Sorry Gun Snobs, go play with your custom 2000 dollar pistols, and your Teutonic blocks of Tactical Tupperware
I don't own a $2000 pistol, that makes as much sense as spending $150 on one, just the other end of the fool and his money spectrum. Teutonic blocks of tactical hardware? Funny. But I can conceal a Glock allot easier then a Hi-Point.
All we ask is that you keep your elitist comments to yourselves.
Yeah, that's gonna happen.
It means I don't have to choose between affording the rent for the month and being a victim.
You could get a quality 12ga. for around the same price and have a superior defense weapon. AND if you are concealing your Hi-Point, A. you are a magician and B. breaking the law. If you can afford a CCL, you can afford a better weapon.
Just the opinion of another fan of quality firearms, i.e. gun snob

Matt-J2
May 20, 2008, 04:07 PM
Where can I get a quality 12 gauge for that price?

Besides used counters, which are random as all get out. Course, I've never seen a Hi-Point for sale, either, truth be told.

HB
May 20, 2008, 04:44 PM
This is getting pretty nasty but here is my thinking...
Hi-points are great for those on a fixed income. If you want a shooter, don't buy a Hi-point. Hi-points are perfect for the vast majority of gun owners who keep one gun around the house for protection. From the last figures I've seen, there are more than 300,000,000 guns in the US, and there's about that many people, so do you think every person that owns a gun goes to the range every weekend and shoots 300 rounds to become proficient? Most gun owner's aren't gun nuts, otherwise they'd all be posting on THR.

if you are concealing your Hi-Point, A. you are a magician and B. breaking the law. If you can afford a CCL, you can afford a better weapon.

Those are some pretty harsh words there don't you think? So, Hi-points are only for criminals and poor people who you believe don't need guns?
I agree that there are many better choices for defense, but how many people want to spend at least $300-$500 for something they'll most likely never fire? Let's go blow my gas money for a month on something that I might not need. I enjoy shooting so I buy decent shooting irons. I rarely play golf, so I have a cheap set of clubs. Makes sense, right? Most people understand that money doesn't grow on trees. As for the "You only think for family is worth $150" comments, I guess a lot of people feel that their family is worth the price of a baseball bat, because that sits behind more front doors than anything else. I guess I should trade in my Ford for a Benz too.

PS, they are very ugly guns.

HB

Ltlabner
May 20, 2008, 05:08 PM
I see, you are an expert on everyone's finances. You think with the rising cost of food and fuel that 150.00 isn't a lot of money for people? I gotta live where you are, the milk and honey must be fabulous. The guns you list above are easily twice the price of a standard Hi-Point, yet offer no warranty.

I'm not an expert on everbodies finances but I know a little about saving money. If someone is capible of saving $150 they are capable of saving some additional amount. Heck, they can continue saving and really stock up on money. Funny how the ability to save never goes away at some magical amount in your bank account.

Sure, if you need a gun RIGHT NOW then $150 HiPoint makes some sense. But by using that "logic" they ought to get the $75 saturday night special. Or the $50 knife. Or the $10 sling shot.

My point was that there are a lot of people living on the edge financially right now and the Hi-Point is an option that allows them to pay the rent and to defend themselves. Are there better guns out there? Certainly. However, not everyone can afford them. So please keep the elitist crap out of the posts.

Hey, if suggesting that people save a little more money and get a better weapon (IMO) is "elitist" then I suppose I am elitest.

Then again, I think telling people they can only afford crap and are somehow incapable of saving money is pretty demeaning to an entire group of people.

t3rmin
May 20, 2008, 05:10 PM
They are indeed ugly as heck. But I love mine.

Deanimator
May 20, 2008, 05:14 PM
Ugliest gun of the cartridge era. The only things that come close are the old Dreyse 9mm autos from WWI, also ill-conceived blowbacks in 9x19mm.

The last one I saw on our club range malfunctioned to the point where it never finished a magazine without user intervention.

I'm about as proud to have Hi-Point be from Ohio as I am to have Jeffrey Dahmer be from Ohio.

Deanimator
May 20, 2008, 05:17 PM
I agree that there are many better choices for defense, but how many people want to spend at least $300-$500 for something they'll most likely never fire?
MY life is worth at least $300. You may place a different valuation on your own.

If I didn't think that my life was worth the cost of a police surplus Glock 19 or even a police surplus S&W Model 10, I'd just walk in front of a bus and be done with it.

Ltlabner
May 20, 2008, 05:23 PM
I agree that there are many better choices for defense, but how many people want to spend at least $300-$500 for something they'll most likely never fire?

I have to wonder whether purchasing a gun (at any cost) and never firing it really provides any additional protection. FBI statistics seem to indicate it isn't.

Simply having a gun in the nightstand is not a magic talisman.

Curiousity
May 20, 2008, 05:27 PM
Having a gun is better then not having nothing at all...

Don't start with your "I rather throw a rock" Idiots!

hotpig
May 20, 2008, 05:27 PM
Same thread on every gunboard about twice per week.:barf:

People that have Hi Points like them. People that don't have Hi Points hate them.

Kind of like caliber wars. Pointless and a waste of band space.

BryanP
May 20, 2008, 05:29 PM
Sure, if you need a gun RIGHT NOW then $150 HiPoint makes some sense. But by using that "logic" they ought to get the $75 saturday night special. Or the $50 knife. Or the $10 sling shot.

Back when I was poor (apparently you don't remember what that's like) I did what I had to. At one point "home defense" consisted of an old baseball bat. Then it became a sub-$100 single-shot shotgun. Then I added an old used sub-$200 Taurus revolver. Both of them served me well for several years. These days I can afford considerably better, but I would never sneer at anyone who wanted an inexpensive home defense option.

These weapons do serve a need. It's good to know the relative merits of the different low-end guns so that you can say "Hi points are ugly and bulky, but they're a lot more reliable than that Jennings you're looking at."

BryanP
May 20, 2008, 05:30 PM
People that have Hi Points like them. People that don't have Hi Points hate them.

Not entirely. I've never owned a Hi Point, but I recognize that they fill a niche.

Ltlabner
May 20, 2008, 05:38 PM
These days I can afford considerably better, but I would never sneer at anyone who wanted an inexpensive home defense option.

Suggesting people save a little more money and get a considerbly better weapon (IMO) is "sneering"? That's one strange definition you have there.

But we've gotten way off track. The original topic is are HiPoints ugly. Don't think anybody has come up with a reasonable argument that they aren't.

Mike J
May 20, 2008, 05:49 PM
While I have never owned a high point one of my neighbors and one of my co-workers both do. according to them they work pretty well as long as they are kept clean. They aren't pretty. I don't believe you could put 500 rounds through one without cleaning it without a malfunction. But if you're willing to keep it clean from what I have been told it will work. Saw some 9mm high points for sale at a gun show last year for $99. 00 pretty hard to beat price for self defense. Almost bought one myself just for something to play with but thought I'd rather wait & get something I really want. I don't want or care for them but at the same time others seem to get good service out of them so who am I to criticize their choice. Would be like somebody criticizing my Ford truck cause it ain't a Chevy and I would feel just like the High Point owners probably do.

saturno_v
May 20, 2008, 05:51 PM
Ton of choices in the $150 range...

Brand new Makarovs, used .38 revolvers, Ruger autoloaders, different brands of used .380 quality autoloaders (Beretta, CZ, etc..)

For home defense, you can buy a brand new Mossberg 500 for $199 (sometimes some local stores offer them at $149!!!) when on sale at Wal Mart..

Hi-Points, IMHO are fine as drawer guns..too bulky, heavy and with iffy safety to use it as carry guns....kind of defy the purpose of a pistol....

I agree that if you want to buy only new guns, with only $100 dollars more ($250 range) you have way more opportunities for quality (and easier to carry and conceal) pistols, Bersa Thunder 380, Kel-Tecs, S&W Sigma to name a few

I do not think i'm a gun snob for suggesting to save for few months more..if you can save $150 you can save $250 or $300 come on guys be real....

Ltlabner is right..if you follow that logic, you can stop saving at $100 and get a Jimenez and prey that it will not jam or explode in your face...

Tribal
May 20, 2008, 06:01 PM
It seems that some people here don't believe that there are folks who can't just come up with an extra $150 on demand. Let's say your a single woman working at a low-paying job. You've got debts, rent to pay, and you're already considering dropping phone service. Even coming up with the initial $150 may mean dining on ramen noodles for a long while. Shotguns are nice for home defense, but it's hard to carry one in a purse if you're worried about crime on the streets or at your job.

A lot of what's being said just seems like snobbery: if you can't afford a nice gun, you shouldn't have one at all.

Also, back on topic: Hi-Points aren't pretty, but I can think of many uglier ones (and that's not even counting old European revolvers!).

1911Tuner
May 20, 2008, 06:01 PM
Dunno why everybody slams Hi-Points. Every one that I've talked to who actually owns one reports that most of'em work quite well, as many straight blowbacks tend to do. They're dead simple.

Some people can't afford to spend upward of 700 dollars for a defensive pistol. Many can ill-afford even the low price of the Hi-Points. Po' folk have a right to have the means to fight back, too.

No...It's not what I would choose, given the option and the wherewithal, and not what I would want to carry...mainly because of the bulk...but as an emergency tool to keep in the house or the trunk of the car, they fit that niche nicely.They're affordable enough to have several stashed in strategic locations around the house, and/or in the trunk of the wife's or daughter's car in case of a breakdown far from help or late at night...and would not only be a great comfort while waiting for the tow truck...could well turn out to be the only thing that gets'em home alive.

Added to the fact that they have a lifetime warranty, and the owners who have had problems have told me that there's no run-around...no questions asked...and zero problems in getting the pistols in working order...right up to and including replacement of a defective pistol in quick-time.

sm
May 20, 2008, 06:09 PM
1911Tuner,
Well said and I agree.

Ugliest Gun?

Not long ago saw a 1911 clone , custom made with duck butts, fuzzy dice, bells, whistles and had more ..."looks like two pigs fighting in a blanket".
Thank goodness they only spent $2,750 for this gun that would not run, I would hate to think what the $2,995 one looked like.

Why even the FLGR sorta thingy was not fit for a gate pin...

saturno_v
May 20, 2008, 06:22 PM
The way I see it, once you decide to defend yourself with a gun. that requires being proficient with them (you do not want to kill innocent bystanders or hurt yourself), meaning range time and buying bullets = expenses.
Even at Wal-Mart one box of 9 mm can be $15 easily + $10 everytime you go to the range, around my area....so I think people on extremely tight budget when they cannot really come up with or save few more dollars have other problems other than the solely price of the gun...

It's not like you buy a gun, put in your pocket and you are ready to defend yourself...actually if you are so broke that you cannot afford even range time buying a used revolver makes more sense since they are way more reliable while a new autoloader may require a period of break-in in order work properly and that means expenses...

bensdad
May 20, 2008, 06:24 PM
I'm so sick of this. Do you guys criticize the neighbors for grilling hamburgers instead of T-bones? Do you laugh with your friends at the guy who has to drive a 94 Neon to work? I bet you had all kinds of fun with the kids who wore second-hand clothes back when you were in school.

My Hi-Point is bionic. That's not the point. Your OP is mean-spirited. I view firearms ownership as a necessity - not a luxury. If all a person can afford is a Hi-Point, more power to them.

How about you go enjoy your horseback fox hunt and a mint julep?

Some poor dude comes here for help and all you can do is play homecoming queen/voted most popular games.

Get a life.

czbegenner
May 20, 2008, 06:26 PM
who ever said that High-point weapons are good there wrong,I had a 9mm high point,went to the range
and it did not fire,i am glad i never had to use it for self defense.I would
have been in trouble

saturno_v
May 20, 2008, 06:31 PM
bensdad

Your comment is really uncalled for...here me and different other members try to help people that do not know much about firearms and are on a budget to make the right decision and we gave several options in the same price range to get a practical pistol..

Is giving advices being elitist???

You are reall out of the line..nobody makes fun of anybody here and we didn't suggest people to get a Kimber or a Sig....

Dravur
May 20, 2008, 06:49 PM
But hey, I guess if your family is only worth the cheapest option available you'll really be a leg up on us snobs.

Awww yes, the sweet smell of snobbery. I must admit that I have never and will never buy a Hi Point. mostly cuz I can afford better, have better and have always had better....

But, here's the rub. The only reason I had better in college was....I had some of my Dad's guns. I was not rolling in cash like now. If money is tight and 150 beans was all I could scrape up, then the hi Point or a used pistol might have been just dandy.

At least from what I have heard, they shoot and the warranty is top notch.

Now, they are as ugly as Rosie Odonnell's butt....but hey, they are cheap..... just like Rosie.

Wheeler44
May 20, 2008, 06:51 PM
So...... Hi-points doesn't suit your refined taste in firearm aesthetics?.....don't buy one......If you are looking through a gun magazine and see a picture of one and don't like the way it looks...don't buy one......If you "KNOW" how to save money and can afford something that you deem a better firearm.....then don't buy a Hi-Point....There was that hard?

Oh.... if there are little red dots under the words you attempted to spell, it means that you spelled it wrong...go back and try again....or look in a dictionary...

My nephew carried a High-Point nine for years in the bush in AK. I gave him flak for packin' a nine......not for packin' a Hi-Point...some people...

DrDeFab
May 20, 2008, 07:07 PM
Judging solely on aesthetics, Hi-Point has been given a lifetime acheivement award for ugly, (as has Glock,) and is therefore disqualified. Sorry... :rolleyes:

This year my nominee is: S&W 327 TRR8 (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=45916&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y) (Not an autoloader, but definitely ugly, especially when over-accessorized. :neener:)

Grey54956
May 20, 2008, 07:11 PM
Perhaps the Hi-Point isn't a defensive pistol at all. Perhaps it's an offensive pistol.

AndrewGWU
May 20, 2008, 07:12 PM
I'm not an expert on everbodies finances but I know a little about saving money. If someone is capible of saving $150 they are capable of saving some additional amount. Heck, they can continue saving and really stock up on money. Funny how the ability to save never goes away at some magical amount in your bank account.


Under that theory if I can save up to afford $6,00 car then it is not to much of a stretch to save up for a $12,000 car. That may sound like a stretch for for someone like many ppl I know, $150 is all they can scrape up.

give
May 20, 2008, 07:19 PM
not fermiler with the gun that is being descused,but as far as a piece of junk goes,jennings takes the cake as far as i am concerned,i bought a 380 and went to the range,put 8 rounds threw it and the firing pin broke,tryed to get a new one at the local gun store and the guy laughed at me,said if i wanted to actueally fix it i had to contact the manufactor,they happen to be in ca.,turns out to be a better paper weight then anything else

DougDubya
May 20, 2008, 07:19 PM
Ugly as hell, but when stuff goes bump in the night, it WORKS and being armed AND ALIVE is a lot more important than being a pretty, elitist snob turning his nose up at something he has no mental capacity to understand is someone's ONLY line of defense.

theotherwaldo
May 20, 2008, 07:24 PM
I think that most guns are ugly and poorly designed. Unneccessary sharp edges and corners, built-in weaknesses, poor sights, designs created by committees, wannabee imitations of military, police, or even movie guns, the list could go on indefinitely.

I would say that the civilian clones of the M-4 have the Hi-Point lapped in that competition.

SeanMTX
May 20, 2008, 07:28 PM
How does calling a gun ugly somehow deteriorate into 'You're a gun snob because the particular gun you think is ugly also happens to be cheap.' ??

Some of you people need to lighten up. Jeeze.

sm
May 20, 2008, 07:30 PM
Ugly is only skin deep, Tyranny and Death cut clear down to the bone and soul.

Take a lady, that had guns, but a husband/boyfriend sold her guns for dope, and then comes after her.
Hi-Point tossed to her, for her to get by, might be the most beautiful thing to her viewed through blackened eyes.

Tornados rip through, maybe mud slides, fire, flooding..and guns are not able to be accessed, and again, a Hi-point being tossed to a family is a wonderful sight.

We have folks , including those that instruct other shooters that think a revolver is a ugly handgun and soooo stupid.
They also see no usefulness for single shot shot gun.

Tell that to the folks me and mine passed out guns to during Katrina!
Tell that to the single mom and daughter that had a house, but tornadoes took it away.
The gal raped, and beaten and in fear of her life, knowing a restraining order is not going to stop that threat, if that threat chooses to act on a promise.


It is real easy to sit in the comfort of one's home and post replies.
Those of us that have seen the eyes, of disaster victims, and results of criminal act and been in the medical settings understand some things.
I do not care if one is an instructor, they ain't paid the dues and gotten the experience to tell anyone what is ugly, stupid, or antiquated.

It might be your wife, daughter, sister or mom that gets in a tight, and someone hands them a Hi-Point, or revolver, or single shot, or...


Focus on the target - not the equipment - Will Fennell

SeanMTX
May 20, 2008, 07:34 PM
I see little purpose for a single shot shotgun.

And in the wake of Katrina I wouldn't pass out guns to anyone other than trusted neighbours/friends...in which case they could use whatever I hadn't already laid claim to. (Likely my Bushie and Glock)...not just my cheapies.

bensdad
May 20, 2008, 07:41 PM
Thanks, sm. Your calm, reasoned response said exactly what my brash, emotional outburst was trying to. A gun in the hand is worth... life.

sm
May 20, 2008, 07:45 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4520094&postcount=6

These were friends and relatives of me and mine.

I can get a lady up to speed with a single shotgun in less than 30 min, as I and mine have done it - numerous times.
I go way back on all this, how raised and mentored.
I have used a single shot to stop a threat, before 911 ever came to be much less cell phones, and Glocks and the like were not even invented yet, and tornados ripped through.

I also stopped a threat against 3 armed males with a .22 revolver, again, before there was ever a Glock company.

My experiences are not as numerous , or as serious as some, mine were real, and I own them.

FieroCDSP
May 20, 2008, 07:47 PM
The guy who brings a gun to a knife fight wins.

The thing is ugly though. I prefer to mis-appropriate funds to better guns (though not much more), but I can respect the need for this type of gun. My guns are a bit of an investment for me at 300-500 bucks. But if I needed a gun in a hurry and only had a little cash, the HiPoint would probably be the choice. Heck, you can't even find revolvers at that price in the average gun store.

theotherwaldo
May 20, 2008, 08:03 PM
I see little purpose for a single shot shotgun.

I used a single-shot shotgun to stop a 14-year-old meth dealer from shooting up my grandmother's house with his current "dad's" deer rifle.

That was a tense stalk.

When I finally got right behind him and knocked him flat, then stepped on his rifle and his gun hand, he freaked, jerked his hand loose, and ran.

The police caught him later and put him in detention.

He ate Drano a few days later.

Ltlabner
May 20, 2008, 08:14 PM
It seems that some people here don't believe that there are folks who can't just come up with an extra $150 on demand.

Nobody is suggesting they come up with the money "on demand". The point is if you can save X amount of money, you can save X + amount of money.

A lot of what's being said just seems like snobbery: if you can't afford a nice gun, you shouldn't have one at all.

Can you post where anybody has said that? Doubt it, since nobody has ever said that. In fact, the suggestion is save a little more and get a DIFFERENT gun. Not NO gun, just a different one.

I bet you had all kinds of fun with the kids who wore second-hand clothes back when you were in school.

Sorry your high-school sucked. Not really sure what that has to do with anything we are discussing here, however.

That may sound like a stretch for for someone like many ppl I know, $150 is all they can scrape up.

Uggh...what part of this is so confusing? The ability to save money doesn't magically stop at $150. The ABILITY to save is not dependant on how much you have or haven't saved thus far.

elitist snob turning his nose up at something he has no mental capacity to understand is someone's ONLY line of defense.

Nice name calling. Good to see that if someone doesn't agree with you that they are stupid by default.

By the way, when did HiPoint become the only selection for a low cost weapon? Your faux argument is based around the notion that it's the "only line of defense" and if they don't have a HiPoint then there is no other weapon available on the planet. Takes about .0001 seconds to poke holes in that theory as there are plenty of other options for $150 and less.

How does calling a gun ugly somehow deteriorate into 'You're a gun snob because the particular gun you think is ugly also happens to be cheap.' ??

It doesn't. People are natually defensive when their weapon of choice is called into question. I get the same way over the Glock haters.

hatchetbearer
May 20, 2008, 08:15 PM
Owned Several, still own the carbine. I loved the .380, i didnt think it was that large, and because of its massive girth It gave me something to hold on to and i could hit my target better, from farther away.

sure im saving up 450 for a 1911, but starting out, thats a hi point, ammo, targets and one on one instruction for a day around here. and sure you might not have as fancy of a gun, but now you know how to use it.

herohog
May 20, 2008, 08:37 PM
I recently bought a C-9 Hi-Point. Then, the next week, I bought a P11 KelTek. Why? Because I had all these 9mm bullets and dies for 9mm but no guns to shoot them from! The P11 is a pocket carry gun. The HiPoint lives in the glove box. My main carry gun? Either the 1911 .45 ACP or the Model 10 S&W .38spl when it's cool enough for a light jacket.

Matt-J2
May 20, 2008, 08:39 PM
I just hate when folks use the term 'only' when it comes to sums of $100 or more.

For persepective, my first job when I got out of the Army(early 2003), was a temp-to-hire spot in a factory. After taxes and whatnot, a 40hour work week would net me about $180-$190. Once the bills are paid, food and gasoline are set, there ain't a whole lot extra.

So yeah, if you can save $150, you can save $150 more, but if you need something, and it's taken you 6 months+ to get that $150, are you better off with a Hi-Point, or with waiting another 6 months or so and having nothing?
If you buy the Hi-Point, then the money you could have saved for something else is now ammo money. Or you buy it to have now, and then start saving again for something better. It's certainly ugly though, I agree there.

Also, where are all these cheap police trade ins, and all the other options folks mention? They seem to get mentioned in lots of places, but they don't seem to actually apply as often as would be useful. Beyond the point here in this thread, I'd like to find one myself.

Ltlabner
May 20, 2008, 08:50 PM
Also, where are all these cheap police trade ins, and all the other options folks mention? They seem to get mentioned in lots of places, but they don't seem to actually apply as often as would be useful. Beyond the point here in this thread, I'd like to find one myself.

Check CDNNinvestments.com. I just talked to them today. They have 2nd Gen Glock 22's with night sights for $319.99. I think he said they have 100 in stock. They also have Smith and Wesson 4006, which is one of their 3rd generation autoloaders. With night sights in very good to excellent condition for $329.99. That's a stainless steel frame and slide, DA/SA with decocker and night sights on a full-sized duty quality weapon for a very reasonable price.

No, it's not $150 HiPoint cheap, but you asked about police trade-ins.

HB
May 20, 2008, 08:53 PM
OK: So I need to buy a gun...

Hi-Point is $150, ruger is $350. Let's see, I can wait 2 months for the Hi-point or should I wait 4 months as people continue to get shot, killed, raped, jumped, burglarized, car-jacked, break into my car, and break into my house. Which would you choose... Most Hi-Points and Hi-Point owners aren't out there to shoot 20000 rounds a year and become good shots. If your going to do that, buy a nicer gun. They buy the gun because they need the gun.

Since I can save up indefinitely apparently (which I suppose is true), I guess should I just pass up a Remmington 870 and wait until I have $20,000 for a H&H in 28 gauge that does the same thing.

From all I've heard, Hi-Points go bang, and I would bet that the bad guy doesn't care if he gets shot with a Hi-Point or a custom Les Baers .45. A gun is a gun if it goes bang and it hits the target.

Many people don't have the income to buy a nice gun. They don't save up $350 because if they did, it would probably be spent on kids, food, gas, etc. A gun is not looked at as a necessity by a lot of people, but rather an upgrade from a Louisville slugger.

The Hi-Point is an accessible alternative to fighting it out with a intruder with your hands. A lot of Hi-Points customers don't go to Cabela's or X & Y's guns to buy either. Go down to the pawn shop and buy it. I seriously doubt the pawn shop is going to be carrying a full line of cheap mil-surps and S&W's for them to buy either.

Please see my earlier post for other feelings.

HB

sm
May 20, 2008, 08:59 PM
Matt-J2,

These older, firearms, such as used police trade ins, are getting more difficult to find, I admit and agree with you.

Truth is, while they are out there, so many folks want them, just a matter of supply and demand.

I know one THR member, asked his Gun Person, to check around and find a dozen total.
Model 10, or Model 64.
I know another member that his family had their Gun Person check around and find a K frame .357s, and this family bought 8 total.

Semi-Auto the same way.
Smith autos like 3913 and 5906, are being bought up.

This is going to sound wrong, still some folks are either on a budget, or just mature enough to not need the latest greatest touted gun, and know, a 3913 will do just as well as a Glock, Sig, HK or whatever else is new.


Folks investigate and verify, they see older guns without locks, MIM and other features on new guns...nor the problems with the older guns...

I can count off the top of my head a dozen folks easy, that got rid of Glocks, Sigs and HKs, and bought a older gun instead.

I know 4 gals that got rid of Glock 26s, and made out like bandits in selling them to folks that had to have them because so-n-so said so, or said they used one or whatever.

These gals CCW K frame .357s.
Older, ones, no locks, and made when they were made right.

Matt-J2
May 20, 2008, 09:09 PM
No, it's not $150 HiPoint cheap, but you asked about police trade-ins.

That I did, and I thank you for it.

I'm not on that 'Hi-Point sort of budget' anymore myself, but layaway is certainly my friend, without it I'd be a bit lost. Now lets see what I can work up for those trade-ins, they're certainly in the price range I tend to look for.

sm
May 20, 2008, 09:27 PM
Matt-J2.

I got a note that CDNN is one place you want to check.
ugaarguy is a member here, PM him.

Check our For Sale section here on THR.

My deal is, I care about folks being able to be safe, and having the means to do so.

So one only has a $150, and they check out Jim March's excellent revolver thread which is stickied.
Maybe they really wanted a semi-auto, but for $50 more, there is a Model 10, internals are pristine, but the bluing is worn and has some rust.
Maybe locally, some widow is selling one, or a couple is going through a divorce...it happens.

Maybe the gun is more money, and since a person has something, doing a lay-a-way allows them buy something that is more money.

I personally don't worry about some wear from a holster or sock drawer.
Neither did/does folks I have assite[ed].
A gun is used after the trigger is tripped the first time.

It is all good, and we are all supposed to be assisting one another.

So while maybe you are not interested in something - remember that person that was.
It all comes full circle.

JDGray
May 20, 2008, 09:41 PM
Having a gun is better then not having nothing at all...


Dang double negatives!! I'll be saying this over and over in my head till it makes sense:neener:

W.E.G.
May 20, 2008, 09:41 PM
I heard them guns weren't no good...

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/humor/fudds2.jpg

DougDubya
May 20, 2008, 09:57 PM
Nice name calling. Good to see that if someone doesn't agree with you that they are stupid by default.

Well, you call someone else a liar by proclaimin Bravo Sierra.

I'm just stating that you don't take into account the economics of the real world, or are you advocating that poor people shouldn't have guns?

It's so nice to have the luxury of a slave class with no arms to defend their rights... Bravo Sierra.

Ltlabner
May 20, 2008, 10:00 PM
I'm just stating that you don't take into account the economics of the real world, or are you advocating that poor people shouldn't have guns?

If you are able to mangle "save up more money and get a better gun" into "poor people shouldn't have guns" then this is a discussion I no longer have interest in.

Stephen A. Camp
May 20, 2008, 10:02 PM
The thread appears to pretty much have run its "useful" course. Despite a complaint or two, I'll leave it open for now but understand that if the thread dips to lower-than-THR-standards as it did at least once so far, the thread will be locked and offenders will probably be banned. It seems that warnings are simply a waste of time and more trouble than they're worth in that the warned offender usually repeats. I prefer not to waste the time and just ban from the get-go.

So:

Stay on topic and disagree if you desire but do so w/o being disagreeable.

You can argue your point without attacking anyone.

Posting your opinion/thoughts/ideas once is fine; it is not necessary to do it every other post if someone disagrees.

Not everyone will agree with any of us all of the time. It happens. Accept it w/o being rude and boorish.

No vulgarity or demeaning of those who disagree with you or agree with some idea or concept that you don't.

If you and another poster decide that you just have to keep on picking at the other, take it to the PM's. The rest of us don't care. It is also egotistical and rude to hijack a thread over hurt feelings. The original poster and those interested in the topic should not have to read the seemingly neverending barbs back and forth between posters more intent on "having the last word" with an opponent than actually contributing to the topic at hand.

In other words, let's post as though we're adults capable of intelligently conveying our ideas and views without appearing as the finalists in a hydrophobia contest. Thankfully, the majority of posters here do comply with the rules and act in a responsible, polite and helpful manner. Offenders are definitely thinned on a regular basis, but sadly, new ones arrive daily.

Thanks.

mgregg85
May 20, 2008, 10:07 PM
Ah, another good old fashioned 'hate' thread. Gotta love it.
http://images.filecloud.com/45529/beating-a-dead-horse.gif
The hi-point is an OK weapon. It works, its cheap, its got a good company backing it.
Yes it is god awful ugly, but its a tool, not a work of art.
Threads such as this one are utterly useless and a complete waste of time and space.

1911Tuner
May 20, 2008, 10:27 PM
This one's startin' to take a nose-dive, and the warring factions need to step back and take a breath.

The Hi-Point is ugly to some...not so to others. Eye of the beholder and all. If one saves your life, or the life of your wife or daughter on a deserted road at around O Dark-Thirty, I betcha you'd think it was the most beautiful thing created since the Mona Lisa.

But...As our idiot/genius friend, Forrest Gump observed: (Paraphrased)

"Ugly is as ugly does."

Most of'em work. If they work, they work...and any pistol in a respectable caliber is capable of performing its assigned task. Those that don't...The company usually just replaces the gun without undue fanfare. Can't ask more than that.

I've seen 2500-dollar full custom 1911 pistols choke like pukin' buzzards...with apologies to the 101st Airborne. I've seen low-end "junk" 1911 pistols run like the Energizer rabbit.

Now...Stand down on the hostilities or the thread is closed.

Matt-J2
May 20, 2008, 11:16 PM
Check our For Sale section here on THR.

Oh yeah, I forgot we had one of those. Thanks!


And on that happy note, I'm heading out of this warzone of a thread. See y'all in other threads.

czbegenner
May 20, 2008, 11:35 PM
I not aganist people on a budget,but
kel-teck makes a 9mm thats better than the High point look it up and see
if it would be around your price range.
But after mine would not fire at the ranges i let it alone even the ranger armor tryed to fix it.I shiped it back to the factory they did like they said
fixed it,but since then i just put it back in the box way.It will be used Only and i do mean only in last resort
If i cant get my hands on any of my 7
others.But i will not carry it on me for any reason.

USMCDK
May 20, 2008, 11:45 PM
This thread was doomed from the get go, but I will do the Jar Head thing here and jump in feet first.

I have taken a look at a hi-point and I would not say ugly, odd looking??? YOU FRIGGIN BET!!! but ugly isn't the word, but then again Eye of the beholder like others have said. I own an HK and I am not offended in the least by others saying it's blocky and ugly. yes it's a wide weapon and you know I have used (an airsoft look alike, spray painted black for cosplay) just that to scare the $#!T out of an offender one scary night. He just saw a *BIG* (sarcasim) gun and thought to himself (HOLY $#!T) and got the hell outta dodge. Is that possible with the OP's stated weapon, you are darn tooting it is. Okay so someone can quickly afford a $150 Hi-point paycheck-to-paycheck. I know that I could do that right now, if I had to, and if I did I would. Like someone else said. what if it's a girl that is a single at home mommy that has an abusive EX hell sweet heart get the F@#$# gun and pray for the best.

You know I am going to end it here because I think that this thread is pointless now that I have even decided to type on it. so have fun with this one boys cause I am going to the locker room to shower the $#!T off of me that was slung in this dookie-fest.

Sincerely,

USMCDK

B yond
May 21, 2008, 12:57 AM
Why would someone start a thread just to trash-talk an inexpensive weapon? :scrutiny:

But I can conceal a Glock allot easier then a Hi-Point.
I can conceal a knife 'allot' easier than a Glock, does that make it a superior weapon?

Hi-Points have their place, and most of the people who actually own them are happy with them. They aren't show guns. They aren't tacticool movie guns or urban warfare military weapons or shoot-em sideways gang-banger guns (they may even have an internal safety to prevent them from being shot sideways).

They are inexpensive, rugged, reliable, and accurate enough at self-defense distances.

Besides, if your Hi-Point breaks they'll send you a new one, even if it's your own fault. Can you say the same about Glock, HK, FN, or Kimber?

jackdanson
May 21, 2008, 01:28 AM
My life is worth about 15k, according to my insurance policy. Much less according to the wife.

I'd rather have a hipoint than nothing, even if it doesn't go bang you can bludgeon them with the huge ugly thing.

jackdanson
May 21, 2008, 01:41 AM
And btw, for the cost you could carry 3 HPs for the cost of one Glock... In that case you could do a really sweet 2 guns jumping through the air thing with them.. but they still would be ugly. (possibly 3 if you could fire one with your mouth, I've been working on that technique for awhile now.)

Anyone wanting to say argghhh no HPs ever, I could arm everyone in my house for the cost of 1 glock. There is something to be said for that.

sm
May 21, 2008, 01:59 AM
Folks,

We have a 4 page thread and not much else can be accomplished.
I want this one closed please.

I am invoking my plankowner wants to be selfish clause .

Two folks on a budget, with serious concerns, have let me know they have had some THR folks step up to the plate in regard to some nice quality handguns that will fit their budget.
Revolvers if you must know, internals are pristine, exteriors have some wear.

All parties want to remain private.
I was just sorta the go-between.

This is what is is all about.

Close the thread on a good note please.


Respectfully-

Steve

jlh26oo
May 21, 2008, 03:27 AM
My life is worth about 15k, according to my insurance policy. Much less according to the wife.

I'd rather have a hipoint than nothing, even if it doesn't go bang you can bludgeon them with the huge ugly thing.


That's hilarious, before reading your post, I figured out mine is worth $14k from a completely differnet angle (what my truck cost)! I feel relatively safe in it (vs a compact car), but if I was REALLY serious about protecting my life in case someone in something bigger than a car crashes into me, I'd invest many times over that in a semi truck!

But my favorite logic here is the guy who keeps saying over and over "if you can save n dollars, then you can save n + ... (some amount)", who obviously hasn't yet taken that math past the first step. Because the amount you save + anything, becomes the new "amount you can save", so add to that and take it as far as you want (ie you can n+1 your way to infinity)!

OMGWTFBBQ
May 21, 2008, 03:45 AM
Hi-Points tend to go bang when your booger hook engages the bang switch, and at that price, you can't really ask for much beyond that. Sure, it is DEFINITELY the ugliest handgun ever made, but it does what it does and it does it while remaining the cheapest reliable firearm currently in production.

Call me vain, but even on my meager starving college student budget, I would probably save a little more money and get something a little better looking as a carry gun.

EHL
May 21, 2008, 07:14 AM
As for the "You only think for(sic) family is worth $150" comments, I guess a lot of people feel that their family is worth the price of a baseball bat, because that sits behind more front doors than anything else. I guess I should trade in my Ford for a Benz too.

How is your comparison of somebody using a baseball bat for home self defense helping your argument for advocating the use of a Hi Point for home self defense? I think it actually helps to show the similarities between the two groups who would choose to defend thier families with inferior weapons. Sure, the Hi point goes "bang", but it is conceded by even the most ardent defenders and enthusiastic of Hi Point owners, that the safety on the gun is not dependable. Are you kidding me?? You would trust that death trap with the lives of your family??? On top of that, who cares if a large portion of the American (or any other country) population uses a baseball bat for protection? Just because they choose "protect" themselves and their family with outmoded weapons, doesn't mean that we should follow suit. I'm gonna have the best weapons and ammunition to protect my family. You wanna trust your life to a weapon made by the lowest bidder, be my guest.:scrutiny:
The argument that people can't possibly afford it is absolute rubbish. I grew up in a very poor family, and I mean POOR. I remember being able to afford TV's, going out to eat (rare occasions), owning two vehicles (pieces of junk but they ran:)) having a computer, etc.......
The fact is, "poor people" in America are not like poor people in other parts of the world. Poor people in America own multiple TV sets, own more than one vehicle, regularly go out to eat, and have money for beer. Trust me, if they can afford any of these common vices they could afford to buy something better than a Hi Point. The fact that they choose to buy the product(Hi Point) that will least infringe on their ability to go to the bar to spend $70 dollars on any given night is a reflection on their character and their priorities. It's a sad fact that many people will choose to buy an extra TV set, eating out 5 times a week, purchase drugs, or going to the bar rather than saving money to buy some decent protection for their family. I don't think we should be advocating the perpetuation of these bad societal practises commonly embraced by the "poor".

1911Tuner
May 21, 2008, 08:31 AM
Well...Since there's been a heartfelt request for closure, and since this really can't accomplish much more than already has been...I suppose it's time to put it to bed.

If anybody on staff should see a reason to reopen it...I have no objections.

Goodnight Chesty...wherever you are.

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