[Mad Magyar]

Yes, I know that generally speaking a straight-draw holster might be slightly faster unconcealed. However, in other areas I find it to be more comfortable while sitting/driving & while digging in my pants pocket for keys or change w/o exposing my piece. Striving to be in decent shape, especially for my age, I have no problem going across my mid-section, where others might find it quite a “stretch”. ;)
I recall Ray Chapman mentioning in his Academy decades ago that the quickest way to get at a concealed gun is in the cross-draw, since the gun hand can easily knife between coat and shirt to get a good hold on the grip, instead of having to sweep the coat back with the strong-side gun hand.
In recent similar threads it’s been mention how weak this carry is in regard to defensive actions in case of a gun grab. But, I find that it can be defended with the weak hand & footwork/kick from such a snatch attempt. Again, this was a Chapman tactic that he believed & taught vigorously in CQC against possible assailants.
I found it interesting that a few months back when Todd Jarrett was demonstrating draw speed from each carry position while on PD TV, it was w/o a cover garment. Cross-draw was a close 2nd to OWB strong-side, IIRC….
Cross-draw advocates or otherwise, please chime in…..:)
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/veritas2369/OfficersCrossDraw001.jpg

[Claude Clay]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7881/006hz4.th.jpg (http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=006hz4.jpg)http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/365/004dn3.th.jpg (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=004dn3.jpg)

[chupacabrah]

that's a funky looking bracelet you have there :P

I havent carried that way, but cross-draw seems more comfortable to me sometimes. and it makes sense not having to sweep away a cover garment w/ the strong hand....hmm... I'll be looking at the other responses for more info

[wadcutter45]

That bracelet is actually a very handsome piece of Navajo silversmithing and not uncommon around here. We're not big on "funk" in these parts.

Thanks for the post...I may have to reconsider cross draw.

[Geronimo45]

Think Suarez is a believer in cross-draw, too.
I like modes of carry that force whatever foe I encounter to be seen by me to get my gun. Gun grabs that I can see first, feel later are preferable to ones that you feel first, see later.
Then again, I'm a shoulder-holster guy, so I cross-draw (of a sort) by default. I can say that cross-draw appears to be the easiest for the 'weak' hand to access, which could be a plus.
However, cross-draw is a tad more difficult to conceal for those who have unbuttoned shirts/jackets/vests, as you've got to have your front covered always (if state law requires). Here, your 3-6 o'clock positions are easier to hide.

[chupacabrah]

That bracelet is actually a very handsome piece of Navajo silversmithing and not uncommon around here. We're not big on "funk" in these parts.


that was my original thought, but wasnt too sure. I've never actually seen any navajo jewelry, not common at all around here...i think andrew jackson ran off most of our injuns a long time ago [ :-( ]. looks pretty cool

[Sistema1927]

I am left handed, and find that the best way to carry when on a long car trip is crossdraw. The weapon is located at the center of the car, doesn't interfere with the seat belt, doesn't get banged up against the door panel, and is easier to draw than strongside while seated.

BTW, nice Navajo silver work. While I limit my adornment to bolos (what is a neck tie?), I can still appreciate nice silver, coral, and turquoise.

[M40A1]

If you continue the draw from the position you are in the photograph you are going to sweep your week hand/arm with the muzzle. I prefer not to let the muzzle pass over anything I might need!

I agree cross draw is best while seated, such as driving, but prefer strong side for anything else. If you practice from concealment regularly it really isn't that much slower. I can draw from concealment and get two good hits at 7 yards in 1.5 seconds.

[sm]

Cross draw affords one some solutions to some situations.

- Sitting.
-Driving a vehicle.

Quite a few folks in wheelchairs, receptionist, cashiers, and the like, find it more comfortable and easier to conceal.
Less chance of a gun hitting the back of a chair or booth and hearing that "bonk" from gun stock.


LEOs on stakeout will move a gun to cross draw...
Taxi cab drivers, delivery drivers, and others that are in vehicles for extended periods, whether actually driving, or sitting in a vehicle.

Seat belts and shoulder harness, impede many IWB/OWB for drivers that are right handed.
Weak hand (left) is impeded too.


Retail settings find some that feel it it easier to conceal and less chance getting bumped into and made.
These get lessons to cant the body and shoot at "across the showcase" distance for instance.

Parents.
I remember as a kid, quite a few new parents, especially mom's were instructed by LEOs at the time (no gun schools back then) that cross draw might work for them having to carry and keep up with that baby, or toddler, then later that kid that went from learning to walk, to running all over the darn place.

The kid was less apt to expose a gun (brandish) and a mom was less apt to print, or brandish bending down and picking up and infant seat, or getting a kid in a stroller, or just picking up a toy the kid dropped.

Cross Draw is "a" way.
One just needs to investigate and verify for them.
Then...get lessons and continue quality practice.

[Old Fuff]

During his misspent youth, cross draw was more common and the Old Fuff was led astray. Unfortunately he never broke the habit. While strong side draw may, or may not be faster, it is somewhat compromised when you need to get a covering garment out of the way. That grand old gentleman, Ed. McGivern had a technique where one could clear a snubnosed revolver out of a holster with hardly any hand motion at all. Cross draw is also handy when carrying a rifle or shotgun, as it gets a handgun out of the way. It's a case of picking whatever technique works best in a given circumstance.

[Trebor]

Old Fuff,

There's a reason then when you post, I pay attention.

"Common sense" is really underrated, and you have it in spades!

[Nematocyst]

I've been thinking about trying a cross-draw for my J-frame.

Any recommendations for make/model?

[RX-178]

I like crossdraw, but I primarily use a strong side FBI-angle carry for my USP Tactical, mainly because if I wear the holster crossdraw-style, I have a harder time getting to my mag pouches. Yes, I do carry spare mags when I can, not because I'm afraid I'll run out of ammo, but because I carry one mag with what I call 'outdoor' ammo, and one mag with 'indoor' ammo. It's not really accurate, but that's how I keep track of them in my head.

I carry with the 'indoor' ammo loaded, which is lighter bullets, and less powder. I admit, this comes mostly from an irrational paranoia about hearing loss, since these rounds are still going to send your ears for a loop, but at the average distance gunfights, or any firearm related self defense scenario occurs, they'll do the job, and it makes me feel more comfortable.

I keep the spare mag with the 'outdoor' ammo so I can change to that mag after a self defense situation out in the street, to be more prepared for threats while I wait for police to arrive.

[RustyShackelford]

I read an item about Soldier of Fortune's weapons editor(a retired US Army NCO in the combat arms), Peter Kolickis(check spelling, ;)) who wrote that he wore his concealed 199a1 .45acp in a cross draw. ;) Kolockis noted that it's easy to clear in a seated draw and you do not "telegraph" your movements as much.
I have large hips and a large waist. I'm also left handed. I wear my sidearms in cross draw and shoulder rigs often. It's not great for large handguns or for some open carry/duty formats but it is fast/comfortable. I think it's an issue of use and the type of firearm that you plan to carry that lends to a cross draw.

I would also note that a weapon can slide loose or fall in a cross draw rig unless you use a strap or thumb break ;). I have a few mishaps that way, :rolleyes:.

Rusty

[Flopsy]

I often crossdraw my Beretta 84F. I prefer crossdraw and I find it to be a much quicker and more natural draw. It feels much more natural to me than reaching behind my hip.

However, when carrying something bigger I do hip carry because a bigger heavier package rides more normally that way rather than up on my hip bone. I find that crossdraw works much better with a smaller, lighter weapon. And it's about a million times more comfortable when sitting.

[M1911]

Cross draw makes it easier to draw when seated. But that's just about the only advantage that I see for it. It is really easy to cross your support arm when drawing and holstering. It puts the gun in a position of strength for a perp trying to grab it from you. In addition, it puts the gun in a position of weakness for you. Your arm is quite weak when stretched across your abdomen, so a perp can easily jam your draw as well.

Finally, since the gun is closer to your midline, it is easy accidentally flash your gun when carrying cross-draw.

Cross-draw just doesn't work for me. YMMV.

[Snapping Twig]

I carry a 3" 629-2 in a crossdraw when I'm hunting. I can get into and out of my vehicle easier and it doesn't interfere with my slinged rifle.

[klover]

Always seemed the natural place to carry for me. It always seemed to be a good idea to have a very sharp knife very quick on the draw for very close work. IWB with a good belt, feels most connected to me out of all possible places. Running it feels as if it will never be lost. A gun grab would be difficult most likely, but especially when the perps tendons have been parted by a knife.

Large revolvers are excluded due to discomfort.

[makarovnik]

Comfortable carry especially while driving. My only beef with it is it might be hard to hold an attacker back with my weak hand while drawing with my strong hand. It might be easier for the BG to grab my gun.

I do prefer the knife if they are that close and haven't already drawn their own weapon.

[slzy]

carrying two guns looks more viable than i thought.

[Packman]

carrying two guns looks more viable than i thought.


Indeed. I knew an older gentleman who used to carry a 1911 strongside, and a smaller revolver (not sure what, exactly) in a crossdraw setup.

I think a good retention holster would eliminate some of the grabbing issues you guys mention. As for me, even though I can't carry in public yet, from looking in the mirror, I'm going to have a devil of a time concealing much of ANYTHING on my hip. I'm just too thin. Crossdraw, in front of the hip, is much easier for me, especially if I wear a vest. Quick, sneaky and it's hard to keep someone from getting their hand to that part of their body. however, It's not as hard to keep them from getting to their hips.

[thunder173]

Some would pooh pooh the idea of a cross draw. Not me. I carry cross draw often. If it works for you, and it fits your circumstances, ...use it. But DO practice with it, and build your tactics, ...both defensive and your presentation around it.

[Old Fuff]

One of the biggest mistakes someone can make it to become so centered on one particular kind or caliber of handgun, shooting technique, mode of carry or whatever, that they exclude consideration of anything else. Over many years I have found that an open mind about such things can result in positive results.

I never met a gun – any gun – that didn’t teach me something. I have had the pleasure and privilege of meeting many famous, and occasionally legendary (and some not so famous) individuals in the shooting community, and again they all taught me something of value.

One may argue the merits and demerits of strong side v. crossdraw, but the truth is that circumstances and purpose dictate what is best. When the circumstances and purpose change, so does the rational about which method is better.

In any situation an open mind combined with knowledge will serve you best. There is no such thing as a 100% perfect solution to any question.

[sm]

In any situation an open mind combined with knowledge will serve you best. There is no such thing as a 100% perfect solution to any question.

Wise words.

[sm]

I really hope nobody ever gets sick, injured, requires surgery, or ends up with some kind of permanent problem they have to live the rest of their life with.

It does happen, and it does happen to younger folks.

21 y/o male, with a busted hip, as a result of tornadoes.
He cannot wear his Glock on his hip, it flat hurts! He winces looking at steps, even just one step, on brick high.

19 y/o female, detached retina, busted shoulder, requiring surgery.
She cannot shoot period right now, NO Recoil orders.
Other injuries, make it difficult to do anything, for herself.

37 y/o male, tough as nails, big, strong, and he has had to go to cross draw, and use a .22 caliber pistol.
Back surgery, and hip surgery.
No recoil orders.

None of these folks every thought it would happen to them.
Not a one had any other type of firearm.
None had a .22 lr handgun, or rifle.

A fella sometime back, fell off his porch during ice and snow.
He broke both arms, upper and lower, and one hand, his other hand had messed up fingers and thumb.

All he owned were semi auto handguns.
Anyone can rack a slide...

He could not take a leak by himself, feed himself, do anything...much less rack a slide.

[redneckrepairs]

Mad carry what suits you . I am used to behind the hip strong side and will continue to use that for a belt gun . If you feel " closer " to a weapon by all means carry that way . I tried it some 20 years ago and in fact it was harder to conceal , and offered no speed to me on day to day carry . I wont say its wrong for you SIR however it would not be right for me under most circumsances .

[Mad Magyar]

Appreciate all the constructive comments.:) I hope I didn't imply it's the only or the best way to conceal. Positive outcomes will certainly be dependent on the scenario and how one reacts to each situation. I tried gun-hand side for a long time and just didn't have the Karma and results I was looking for...
I must admit that I do more pocket carry with smaller calibers and for some unexplained reason will carry my revolvers only in a shoulder-rig...Crazy!:o

[ravencon]

I only own one cross-draw holster but I'm considering getting some more. Sometime ago I injured by dominant side shoulder while weight lifting. Rehab has been slow and iffy. I still sometimes have some difficulty in drawing from the strong side. As a lefty cross draw in a car is very advantageous.

I think I'll put up a post on the appropriate forum for suggestions for good cross draw holsters for revolvers.

[Nematocyst]

I'm reading this with interest. Thanks to all for an interesting thread.

Nice to get more insight into people's reasoning behind their personal preferences, pros and cons of crossdraw (CD) v standard. I hope it'll expand into a discussion of standard v CD v shoulder carry (SC) more explicitly, especially from those who've done all three.

I've been considering adding both CD & SC to my options. Right now, around the home and at work since I'm not CCW yet (coming soon), I "carry" my J-frame in an OWB strong side high ride. I like it for around the studio. It's comfortable. It offers me fast (enough for my comfort) access on warm days when I don't need to conceal at home/work, but when covered with vest, pullover or untucked shirt, I find it much slower. No surprise. Of course, I haven't studied the art of quick draw as some (many?) of you have, so I have things to learn. (Relative to many of you, I'm still a trainee with hand guns even after three years on THR.)

But for away from here, especially during colder weather when I'm wearing layers, I want to try CD. Even though I'm reading arguments above about the downsides, and respecting those opinions, I'm of the opinion that there are potentially work-arounds for those downsides. That is, by modifying ones draw behavior for different carry options, I'm willing to bet that the pro/con ratio could be leveled out to near even for just about all of them.

No specifics to offer yet. Still thinking that through. But I think of it as a challenge, so I'll see what my neurons churn out in the next few ...

Nem

[tntwatt]

Old Fuff,

There's a reason then when you post, I pay attention.

"Common sense" is really underrated, and you have it in spades!


+1, Old Fluff,you may be getting a fan base.

[Old Fuff]

I have considered starting a fan club, with membership costing $1,000.00 a pop... :what:

I do have this gun buying habit to support, and the only thing that exceeds my ego is my good looks... :evil: :D

[Murdock]

Crossdraws work well for people with shoulder injuries to the dominant side (e.g.; rotator cuff tears).

When I feel the need for a crossdraw, I use a shoulder holster.

[Trisha]

WB crossdraw seems to work best on folks with really good posture and a reasonably strong core muscle group/abs & back, IMO.

[sm]

Old Fuff:
I do have this gun buying habit to support, and the only thing that exceeds my ego is my good looks...

Trisha:
WB crossdraw seems to work best on folks with really good posture and a reasonably strong core muscle group/abs & back, IMO.

1,000.00 membership in the Old Fuff Club sounds too low to me...
I mean where else are you going to meet a fella that changed Ed McGivern's diapers, that lives in a cave, has all his hair, no gray, six pack abs that still carries Cross draw a revolver he made from Bison Bone and shoots flint bullets?

$1,500.00 sounds sounds like a more fair membership fee to me...

[owlhoot]

Magyar, I agree with you about the crossdraw. I've used that carry as my primary since Harry Truman was president. I also prefer it for the 1911, K frame, and SAA as well as the smaller guns. I prefer a holster with a neutral cant and I want it to ride as high as possible, especially with the larger guns. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to find a proper holster.

[Mad Magyar]

I prefer a holster with a neutral cant and I want it to ride as high as possible, especially with the larger guns. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to find a proper holster.
That's a point worth mentioning...I'm so used to the Yaqui belt slide (one pictured), but in my Boxful of Worthless Holsters, there are a few good 3-slot Open-style, Pancake hi-rides that give a more natural cant for grasping the CD gun hand....

[RustyShackelford]

In the classic cop film; Sharkey's Machine, www.IMDB.com , Burt Reynolds Atlanta GA vice cop uses a FBI canted holster for his right hand in a crossdraw almost behind his hip, :confused:. He used a big 1911a1 .45acp but I doubt a real police detective would carry a .45acp that way. It may conceal well but would be difficult to draw, :uhoh:.
In the start of the movie, Reynolds pulls a big S&W revolver from his lower pant leg too, :rolleyes:.

Crossdraw holsters/carry reminds me of the few nitwits that would ask me if I was using a cavalry style carry holster, when I'd wear my GPNY .38spl in open carry uniformed work. I'd smile and tell them, no I'm left handed.

Rusty

[gp911]

Everytime I see that pic I hear the theme music from old cop shows like The Rockford Files... :D


gp911

[DWFan]

If I wore a weapon for self defense, it would have to be crossdraw for several reasons. For one, it the position I'm most comfortable with since my hunting pistols are carried that way. I understood that it was also the preferred carry style for shootists of the old west. Ya'll mention "sweeping the arm" but why would you present yourself head-on to an assailant? Wouldn't it be better to pivot the foot back while drawing your weapon and present profile, reducing the target area available to your opponent and protecting vital areas with your arm while keeping an antagonist away from the weapon?

[Mad Magyar]

Ya'll mention "sweeping the arm" but why would you present yourself head-on to an assailant? Wouldn't it be better to pivot the foot back while drawing your weapon and present profile, reducing the target area available to your opponent and protecting vital areas with your arm while keeping an antagonist away from the weapon?
Footwork is important since that "moment" certainly wouldn't be static...Another point that sometimes gets overlooked is how one can in an "innocent gesture" grasp one's firearm w/o exposure giving you a momentary edge in any attempt of surprise. A casual hand insertion, like a cross-over scratch of the abdomen, and you're in ORANGE alert.

[stormspotter]

When I am seated for a long period of time, like when I am out on storm watch, I use my Mernickle PS6 SA in crossdraw fashion. If I have to get out for any length of time then it goes to strong side carry.


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k10/ema567/100_3572.jpg


I also have a Bianchi 1L for strong side carry and another Mernickle IWB for my Ruger 50th in 357 mags.

[RPCVYemen]

Only drawback I see is that at least around here, none of the ranges will let you practice cross draw. You end up muzzle sweeping the hole left side of the line.

Mike

[Mad Magyar]

StormSpotter, nice looking "pair"....:)
none of the ranges will let you practice cross draw. You end up muzzle sweeping the hole left side of the line.


I guess we're fortunate out here. Public range is about 8 miles out of town (down-side) but with plenty of safe berms...No R.O.'s out here.....

[JESmith]

Quote:
Ya'll mention "sweeping the arm" but why would you present yourself head-on to an assailant? Wouldn't it be better to pivot the foot back while drawing your weapon and present profile, reducing the target area available to your opponent and protecting vital areas with your arm while keeping an antagonist away from the weapon?


If the BG happens to actually grab your arm while you are drawing, you can step back and drop to your strong side knee. Pull straight back and gun will come out of the holster and be pointed at his midsection. Not a perfect combat stance, but you can always save that for the next gunfight. ;)

[Ltlabner]

Ya'll mention "sweeping the arm" but why would you present yourself head-on to an assailant? Wouldn't it be better to pivot the foot back while drawing your weapon and present profile, reducing the target area available to your opponent and protecting vital areas with your arm while keeping an antagonist away from the weapon?

Except when you pivot to present ala weaver, you then open yourself up to a wound that transverses your entire chest cavity. You have to raise your arm to present the weapon so it woln't really provide much cover. While a round passing front to back is no picnic, going side to side presents a greater chance of multi organ injuries.

If wearing body armor you open up the slit under the arm when turning sideways to your target.

The bigger point, already raised, is that a gunfight will likely be a messy moving affair, but if given the choice (IMO) facing the target head on is a better option than the classic weaver. Just what works for me.

This will now begin a fur-ball of weaver versus isiocoloes stances.

Enjoy!

Oh yea, I'm not a fan of crossdraw unless I know I'm going to be in the car most of the day (i.e. vaction) then it's a far more comfortable soultion than strong side hip carry.

[loneviking]

LitlAbner, you're missing the picture. You 'blade' towards the bad guy with your weak arm forward supporting the gun, the gun held by your strong hand.

Look, go to sabretactical.com Look at their methodology and pictures, which I think is pretty close to what many of us in this thread have found to work. Frankly, until I found the sabre site, I had no idea that anyone else had found this method. I 'discovered' that this works while training with LEO's in a form of martial arts years ago. The stance is a very natural shift for someone with martial arts training.

[Ltlabner]

LitlAbner, you're missing the picture. You 'blade' towards the bad guy with your weak arm forward supporting the gun, the gun held by your strong hand.

Sigh....I didn't figure I'd be able to express an opinion of what makes sense and works for me without someone having to "school" me on how dumb I am.

Please, if your tactics and training work for you, by all means use what works. But please don't lecture me about how I'm missing the picture, ninja training or not.

[Big Boomer]

And you wanna try telling me how in the world you can stand wearing that cover garment in the TEXAS heat?

Thought so.

Cross draw is fine but not for all climates...

[publiuss]

I carry crossdraw often, but for reasons other than most people are concentrating on. When big game hunting I carry my Blackhawk crossdraw so it doesn't beat the hell out of my rifle stock when I have it slung over my shoulder. Never really considered crossdraw for concealed/SD but sounds like a good idea.

[loneviking]

Quote:
Sigh....I didn't figure I'd be able to express an opinion of what makes sense and works for me without someone having to "school" me on how dumb I am.


No, I'm not saying you are dumb! I am saying that you are 'talking past' some of the other folks on the forum. From your comments, you don't seem to understand the stance that they are referring too. As the saying goes 'a picture is worth a thousand words'---and that's why I posted the Sabre tactical training site.

Sheesh, don't be so thin skinned!

[Flopsy]

Cross draw is fine but not for all climates...

Yeah, unless you cross draw underneath a T-shirt. Unless you're in the rainforest and can't wear more than a banana hammock, most modes can be adapted for your style of dress.