Good Design Gone Bad


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Sturmgewher
May 22, 2008, 03:46 AM
Well folks, Kimber has finaly introduced a 1911 that is less than $900! Hang on, now, before you run on down to One Eyed Petes Pistol Emporium there is a catch. It's a 9mm. And a single stack. Does it still qualify as a 1911? Sure, Colt made 'em in even worse...er I mean...other chamberings, the design is the same, the bore is just smaller. Much smaller.
Here's the deal. The majority of 9mm pistols hold at least 10 rounds and many can hold 15+. Why, you ask? Be patient grasshopper and all will be revealed. The 9 mil, even in +P loadings is inferior in real world perfomance to the beloved .45ACP (Acceptable Caliber for Pistols) and thus many more rounds are necassary. No brag, just fact. Our boys over in the Sand Box are asking for .45's cuz their M9 just don't cut the mustard (or haji, I guess). Granted they have to use hard ball, but there lies the rub. Using FMJ the .45 is a proven man stopper while the 9mm is woefully inadequate in hard ball (can you say pistol envy), and not much improved until one moves up to +P loadings, and even then the .45 is still the better choice.
So back to the Kimber. What would posess fine pistol crafters to sully the greatest pistol design of all times with an anemic chambering? Well, reduced recoil comes to mind. Slightly reduced weight perhaps. Reduced cost in feeding. The 9mm isn't worthless, mind you. It's a whole lot better than any .25, .32, .380, etc. but if you can handle the recoil would it not make more sense to go with a proven chambering. Mabe Kimber is just trying to keep up with the rest of the pistol community, everyone else is chmbering for the .45, why shouldn't they chamber for 9mm? About 20 years to late, but whatever.

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M47 Dragon
May 22, 2008, 04:14 AM
Well, Kimber is not the only one... and honestly, I think they've had a 1911 9mm available for a while now... could be wrong.

I think they (and other manufacturers) are catering to the competition crowd with these offerings. ESP division in IDPA, for example.

johnle
May 22, 2008, 04:39 AM
Frankly if our boys over there are resorting to using pistols, something is wrong. My friend who is a marine has only shot his M9 a couple of times mostly at paper, he uses his M4 for everything else because dammit...it just works better.

And whats the point of this post?
Some people like the feel of a 1911 but don't want to pay premium pricing for a larger bullet so they settle on a 1911 style gun that shoots relatively cheap 9mm ammunition. So what? People have .22LR slides on 1911's

Wayne G.
May 22, 2008, 05:21 AM
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm70/hughdamrite/Do-not-feed-the-troll.png

Muddflap
May 22, 2008, 06:00 AM
I believe that's an excellent idea.

Mad Magyar
May 22, 2008, 12:54 PM
Mabe Kimber is just trying to keep up with the rest of the pistol community, everyone else is chmbering for the .45, why shouldn't they chamber for 9mm?
Actually, it's about profit and possibly a good marketing move. They still have a good reputation for building a hi-end pistol even though many, including yourself in other threads, seem to feel they don't. The price is still too high for my liking, but I do agree about your caliber differences in regard to being a "man-stopper"..Remember, like it's been mentioned, wars are not won w/pistols. Many of our troops, including present day LEO's, find it difficult to fire a .45acp with a fair degree of accuracy needed in their endeavor.:)

Ske1etor
May 22, 2008, 02:12 PM
Sturm, why the hatred for Kimber?

rbernie
May 22, 2008, 02:27 PM
I had a old pre-Series 80 Colt Combat Commander in 9mm. It's not like Kimber is somehow stumbling onto some new marketing ploy.

Johnny Guest
May 22, 2008, 02:32 PM
No rhyme, no reason, no mas.

CLOSED

1911Tuner
May 23, 2008, 06:20 AM
Howdy Johnny, and all others that have responded. Hope ya don't mind if I reply to a closed thread...but I have answers to all of Sturm's questions.

The move has nothing to do with the superiority of one caliber over the other, and it has nothing to do with recoil.

It's very simple. Econonics. A good many of the .45 shooters around here are selling or storing their .45s and buying 9mm pistols...or using the 9s for the bulk of their practice with the same platform.

9mm ammunition is cheaper to buy, and it's cheaper to reload. For those who cast, there are twice as many bullets to be had from a pound of increasingly expensive and hard to find metal suitable for bullet casting. Wheelweights are becoming more scarce, and the makers of such niceties are going over in large part to zinc weights...which are unsuitable for bullet casting. The cost of lead/tin solder has jumped from 4 dollars a pound to almost 10 bucks in a short time...when you can find it.

Kimber's pistol is just good business. They saw the handwriting on the wall, and they made the smart move. Nothing more/Nothing less.

And FYI...The Colt Commander was originally slated to be a 9mm...way back in '49.

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