who makes most accurate off the shelf AR15 .223


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AWMP
May 23, 2008, 04:10 AM
Who makes the most accurate .223 off the shelf AR15? Bushmaster, COLT, Remington or ......
Wanting to use it for Varmit and possible long range target. Was looking at bolt action rifles but very familiar with AR platform and just weighing the pros and cons for each.

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mlw332
May 23, 2008, 04:34 AM
the colt accurized rifle. had one a while back and it would shoot less than 1" groups at 100 all day long. i do not have any experience with the other brands. for varmit hunting the ar will give you faster follow up shots when needed(in my case always needed)

poorfolks
May 23, 2008, 04:56 AM
bushmaster varmint. .5 inch groups at 100 yards when/if i do my part.

RockyMtnTactical
May 23, 2008, 05:43 AM
RRA and Stag both make great target/varmint models capable of excellent accuracy.

Nhsport
May 23, 2008, 08:34 AM
Poorfolks--What have you been useing for ammo?

I have messed with AR's for a few years and just recently picked up a Bushmaster Special Varmint . I have only shot it very casually (more to check function)

snorko
May 23, 2008, 12:07 PM
bushmaster varmint. .5 inch groups at 100 yards when/if i do my part. - poorfolks
__________________

I get this too. shot my new to me Bushy Varmint this past weekend using Ultramax Remanufactured 68 gr.

Shooting off a bipod it was one small hole at 50 yds and 1/2" at 100 yds. Needles to say me happy boy.

76bronc
May 23, 2008, 01:38 PM
all the varmet models are verry accurate they all can hold under .5" like rra stag and bushmaster depending on the shooter

Ridgerunner665
May 23, 2008, 01:49 PM
I really hate to say it...but Bushmaster's Varmint and Target models are the most accurate IME...and I don't care for Bushmaster.

pgeleven
May 23, 2008, 02:03 PM
IMHO as long as you got good mag springs then it is up to the shooter on how accurate the rifle is.

Ridgerunner665
May 23, 2008, 02:15 PM
mag springs????....now thats funny

AWMP
May 23, 2008, 02:48 PM
several have sent messages on the side saying the bushmaster predator fits the bill pretty well

not sure about the magazine spring comment

waiting to hear back from fulton armory as well

taliv
May 23, 2008, 02:59 PM
no way dude, it's not magazine springs that make rifles accurate!!! it's the charging handles!!! I heard teh guy who won camp perry get the charging handles that are machined from billet and then hand-lapped all ur rounds will go in one hole my brother is a master of arms in the special forces and he never lies

s2brutus
May 23, 2008, 04:57 PM
no way dude, it's not magazine springs that make rifles accurate!!! it's the charging handles!!! I heard teh guy who won camp perry get the charging handles that are machined from billet and then hand-lapped all ur rounds will go in one hole my brother is a master of arms in the special forces and he never lies
No, no, no!

It's not the mag springs OR the charging handle - it's the ejection port cover!

For best accuracy one must have the special harmonically-balanced ejection port cover machined from a special aluminum-titanium-manganese-beryllium alloy. Also, the spring tension must be not less than 15.364 ounces and not more than 16.897 ounces.

With these issues properly addressed, one will be able to shoot 1/8" groups at 300 yards quite easily, regardless of ammo type.

Buncha dummies..... Sheesh.

:rolleyes:

308sc
May 23, 2008, 05:01 PM
haha.

pete f
May 23, 2008, 08:23 PM
JP industries, http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.2.php

ccd
May 24, 2008, 01:25 AM
Get a decent lower and then order a White Oak upper.

rangerruck
May 24, 2008, 02:05 AM
only les Baer has an accuracy guaranty , and I think it is 1/2 inch group at 100.

S&WKING
May 24, 2008, 02:26 AM
so does this mean my dpms is not very accurat? its got the big barrel and fluted and all

guntotinguy
May 24, 2008, 03:43 AM
Ive found the RRA and Colt are the 'most accurate'...

shattered00
May 24, 2008, 03:52 AM
What about LMT? I guess it isn't "off the shelf" though.

Bendutro
May 24, 2008, 10:59 AM
There's lots of ARs out there and even more opinions. The only one I'm qualified to give is that my Stag Super Varminter lives up to its 0.5 MOA factory guarantee and is < $1000.

No FTF or FTEs and easily matches a good bolt-gun for accuracy while allowing me to spot and shoot the sage-rats without breaking grip or cheekweld. I'm very happy. Happily feeds 77gr Black Hills for the long shots too.

AWMP
May 26, 2008, 06:08 AM
I think my eyes have crossed several times reading all the information available on the internet.
I finally decided on the RRA predator. Several reasons, but a few stick out the most. RRA has a lifetime warranty, wilson barrels (I like the 18 and 20" length) and several I have talked to have recommended them.
I know there are others out there, but for my personal choice and pocket book this will be my purchase.
The next major purchase is a scope, which by the looks of scopes might cost me as much as the rifle. I have $500.00 for the scope, I know that is not enough for a really nice scope, but just have to see if I wait or buy now.
Like many others Cadillac wants on a VW budget, lol.

jimmyraythomason
May 26, 2008, 08:43 AM
"Cadillac wants on a VW budget" Now THAT I can relate to!

The Wiry Irishman
May 26, 2008, 10:09 AM
JP CTR-02 (http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.1.php), though its more of a competition gun.

Scroll down on the link to see some of the sub .3" 5-round groups it can make.

SimpleIsGood229
May 26, 2008, 07:16 PM
Yep, I gotta vote for the Bushy Varminter.

http://www.gunblast.com/Bushmaster_Varminter.htm

Schleprok62
May 26, 2008, 07:28 PM
Some of the Olympic Arms stuff is quite accurate... Someone was selling a K16 in the for sale section, with pics of the groups... smaller than a quarter @ 100 yards... I think he decided to keep it...

I know the K16 is under $800 delivered... There's my vote...

I do agree that most of the quality built AR's are quite handy around the the house for those stray tacks with decent ammo, and of course, a shooter that's compitent...

benEzra
May 26, 2008, 09:00 PM
Rock River guarantees 3/4 MOA or better for some of their rifles, like the Varmint and Predator series:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/va408.gif

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=227
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=230
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=229

RNB65
May 26, 2008, 09:17 PM
A buddy of mine has a Colt Accurized Rifle with the 24" barrel. Another buddy has a Rock River Predator Pursuit with a 20" barrel. It's not close. The Colt shoots rings around the Rock River.

My Rock River buddy is so upset over it that he's thinking hard about selling the Predator and buying a Colt. He spent months researching the most accurate AR and thought he had it with the RRA Predator and their 3/4MOA "guarantee". Then our other buddy pulls up at the range one day with the Colt he bought the weekend before at the gunshow and puts the Predator to shame. The pain goes on...

p.s. My Remington 700 VSSF II can out shoot both of them. Something to consider.

longdayjake
May 26, 2008, 09:38 PM
My Rock River buddy is so upset over it that he's thinking hard about selling the Predator and buying a Colt. He spent months researching the most accurate AR and thought he had it with the RRA Predator and their 3/4MOA "guarantee". Then our other buddy pulls up at the range one day with the Colt he bought the weekend before at the gunshow and puts the Predator to shame.

Um, first of all the barrel lengths are different (who knows twist rate) so depending on the ammo being used they are definately going to be shooting different patterns if you are using the same ammo. Maybe the ammo used that day was better for a 24" barrel. Also, sometimes optics play a role in the groups as well. If the Colt had better optics it might have made the difference. Also, if you were using iron sights then the sight base is longer and therefore easier to tighten groups with. Another thing is that maybe had something to do with it is the person shooting the two weapons.
The point I am trying to make is that I doubt that the Colt shoots that much better than the rock river based on gun design only. There are so many factors that could have gone into play to make the colt the better shooter that day. I have personally seen groups go from 3" to "in the same hole" by just changing powder charges, bullet grain, case neck lengths, etc.
In my opinion, I doubt that the colt could shoot better groups with just any load of ammo. Different loads are better for different length and twist rate barrels. I also believe that in order to get dependable accuracy no matter what barrel you use, the right handload for the rifle is essential. Wolf just will not cut it if you want accuracy. Also, good optics are important if you want a "good rifle." Lastly, a rifle only shoots as well as the schmuck aiming it down range can shoot. That is why none of my rifles shoot as well as some of my buddies. :D

RNB65
May 26, 2008, 09:57 PM
Agreed that there are a lot of variables involved, but these two guys go shooting together frequently and my RRA buddy always shoots the other guy's Colt much more accurately than he shoot his own RRA (and Colt Buddy shoots the Colt better than the RRA). Using both his factory ammo (not sure what he uses) and Colt buddy's 69gr handloads in both rifles, the Colt always outperforms the RRA. Always. Just makes him SICK! :)

I've fired both rifles and I get better results with the Colt. Not a huge difference, but enough to make RRA buddy just SICK! :) Maybe it's just luck of the draw, but the accuracy of that Colt is uncanny.
-

GILROY
May 26, 2008, 10:05 PM
Just my opinion, but I think often it can be rifle to rifle differences even in the same brand and setup. No matter how good the machinery, no two rifles will be precisely alike.

longdayjake
May 27, 2008, 01:46 AM
My rock river is not a predator and it is not NM but rather just a chrome lined 16" barrel midlength. I get great results with 62 grain ss109 steel tipped bullets loaded with 23 to 24 grains of ramshot TAC and cci 400 primers. Tell him to try some of those in his 20" barrel. I have also had good results with accurate 2230 powders. I have not yet found a good load for 55 grainers.

kcmarine
May 28, 2008, 06:41 PM
Sorry, I can't resist.


Everyone who said that the ejection port, charging handle, and mag springs are paramount for accuracy are wrong. You see... the real advantage lies in what kind of plastic is used to line the compartment inside the buttstock of the rifle. True story.


Beat that in insignificance, and you win a cookie.

longdayjake
May 28, 2008, 08:44 PM
No, you are wrong. The type of plastic on the stock is VERY important to accuracy, however there is something more important. I have found that when the factories stamp their receivers with their logo it can often cause the metal in the mag well to expand about .0043 of an inch for every .00678 of an inch that is indented on the receiver. Depending on the size of the logo, this may actually make the receiver unbalanced and cause severe vibrations that lead to inconsistency from shot to shot. So, the true answer to your question is that NO brand shoots accurately simply because they stamp their brand name on the receiver. I don't know where all you guys heard that other stuff from but man you sure sound like idiots when you say that cost has something to do with it.

MinnMooney
May 28, 2008, 09:01 PM
I go with the Bushmaster, Stag and Rock River Arms - all with accurized (read varmint/target) barrels. They all will hold 1 MOA (.5 MOA "all day long" seems a bit of a stretch.)


BUT : from Gilroy :Just my opinion, but I think often it can be rifle to rifle differences even in the same brand and setup. No matter how good the machinery, no two rifles will be precisely alike. And I agree.

ShOcKeRpb
May 28, 2008, 09:11 PM
I'm suprised no one has said Patriot Ordinance Factory. If you are looking for a good accurate rifle some of the Bushmasters and Rock River varmit rifles fit the bill quite nicely. If you want extreme tack driving, then you will have to experiment with bullets, chambers, coeficients and the like, .223 with a 90 grain Boat Tail and a 22 inch 1 in 6.5 barrel might get some nice groups.

browningguy
May 28, 2008, 10:45 PM
I shoot a reasonably accurate DPMS 16" stainless bull barrelled upper. But for real accuracy, as a few have already mentioned, go with Baer, Clark Gator, or a JP CTR02.

Of the mass produced guns I've liked RRA as seeming to be very consistant in their quality. You might get a barn burner Colt, but just as likely you won't, same with most of the other mass market guns. Almost all of them these days are pretty decent, but very few of them will consistantly shoot with the top three mentioned above.

armed85
May 28, 2008, 11:02 PM
While it may be obvious to most people here, a good trigger is worth it's weight in gold as far as consistent accuracy or small groups are concerned. A poor trigger will hold a good barrel and good ammunition back.

I'm constantly amazed how a manufacturer can make an otherwise excellent rifle such as these 20" heavy barrel varmint or target AR-15s and then put a heavy, creepy trigger in it.

Rock River makes a pretty good out of the box two stage trigger. In my opinion, the trigger on the Colt Accurized Varmint AR is heavy and creepy.

Maybe budget in the price for an after market drop in trigger? Though, the RRA two stage trigger is pretty nice and you can get by with that until you have the money to upgrade to an aftermarket trigger.

aloharover
May 29, 2008, 09:41 PM
Les Bear, White Oak, Stag are all amazing.

RNB65
May 29, 2008, 11:34 PM
In my opinion, the trigger on the Colt Accurized Varmint AR is heavy and creepy.

Agreed. My Colt buddy (see posts above) replaced the trigger in his Colt with a Timney drop-in replacement trigger within a month of buying it.

tepin
May 30, 2008, 01:35 AM
http://www.lewismachine.net/

cracked butt
May 30, 2008, 03:55 AM
Everyone who said that the ejection port, charging handle, and mag springs are paramount for accuracy are wrong. You see... the real advantage lies in what kind of plastic is used to line the compartment inside the buttstock of the rifle. True story.


Beat that in insignificance, and you win a cookie.


Have you miked the drain hole in the buttstock screw lately?


I like chocolate chip cookies.

Gunsby_Blazen
May 30, 2008, 04:09 AM
Rock River Arms, they got Wilson barrels. Get a Stainless one...
Should be pretty darn accurate.

flynlr
May 30, 2008, 05:10 AM
its all about "balanced" parkerizing. Duh!

Greenspartan117
May 30, 2008, 05:37 AM
Noveske Rifle Works


http://www.noveskerifleworks.com/

poorfolks
May 30, 2008, 05:41 AM
i am using some hand loads i baked up using 55 gr. v max s and w748, magnum primers. not too scientific just feeds well with great accuracy.

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