Mosins: Do You Like Them?


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Geno
May 24, 2008, 05:25 PM
Confession time: I have 6 Mosins. Wow, what awesome rifles! At $79.00, I cannot envision a better deal. Well, my first 5 Mosins cost $79.00 each. This past week, the going price in my area was $179.00 each. I was fortunate to locate a single remaining Mosin on which the price tag had not been changed to reflect the price increase, and it had the octagonal receiver. This rifle is a Russian, and built in 1929! The serial numbers all match, and the rifling looks amazing. The cost on this Mosin was $119.00, and I feel I got a good deal. I don't want to make this thread a full-blow survey, but I am wondering:

How Many Mosins do you Own?

Which Models Do You Have?

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?

Do You Want More Mosins?

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?

Go post some pictures...please.

Thanks folks,

Doc2005

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm79/Doc2005/IMGP0098.jpg

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Shade00
May 24, 2008, 05:38 PM
I just got a '39 Izvhesk M91 yesterday. Matching numbers, in great shape. Ordered 300 rounds of Bulgarian surplus too - don't know when I'll get to take it out and shoot. Paid $100 + tax. I'm thinking about ordering a couple online... I want to get an M38 and an M44. We'll see. The wife would go ballistic if she knew I was thinking about getting more. :( I'll try to post a pic (still can't find my camera charger.

saturno_v
May 24, 2008, 05:57 PM
I had 3 beautiful pre-WWII Izhevsk 91/30, light wood color, like-new bores very accurate, simply perfect...got them at $79 each.
I did have a very very good offer for one of them so I sold the one I considered the "worst"...I have the 2 best left.
As far as I'm concerned, if I cand find it I may get one or two Tula 91/30 either pre or post WWII with dark wood to add some variance to my collection..and they must be in excellent conditions like my Izhevsk. I noticed the quality went downhill fast recently and the price increased. I'm not interested in the M44, I may only remotely consider an M-38 in very good shape at the right price.

Do I like my Mosins....definitely yes, I love the ruggedness, their aesthetic they are dead accurate and very powerful...I love the 7,62 X 54R

Doug S
May 24, 2008, 06:04 PM
I just got a 1942 Izzy 91-30, last week. I never really wanted a 91-30, but last week I decidedto put together something of a WWII-milsurp display in my basement (Man Cave), and I thought since they were cheap, I'd pick one up. Now that I have it, I have to admit, I like it very much. Seems like a solid rifle, and an interesting piece of history. Paid $150 which seems high compared to the $79 that I keep reading about, but after reading this post, I feel a little better about the price. No doubt it is worth $150, anyway. The same shop had a Remington make Mosin Nagant, and I'm tempted to go back. They had a pretty high price tag on it (I think upper 3's).

grimjaw
May 24, 2008, 06:04 PM
You know there's a Mosin Nagant owner's thread, don't you Doc?

I liked them much better when the ammunition was less than $0.10/round.

I owned a M91/30 sniper replica and liked it very much. Both of my Swiss K31s would print tighter groups (and with open sights vs the PU scope), but I never had the opportunity to shoot anything like match ammo through the M91/30. Maybe that would have made all the difference.

I've owned ten different Mosin Nagants but only have one left, and that one only because I can't find anyone to take it off my hands. M91/30s, M44s, and M38s plus a PU replica. Prices paid were anywhere from $90-350. The only other surplus rifle I'd be interested in owning now besides my K31 is a FR8, or an 8mm Mauser type if ammo could be had cheaper. I never hunted with my Mosin Nagants. The only one I would have considered was just too heavy to lug around.

jm

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2280/1782452931_f48939471d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grimjaw/1782452931/)

Hoppy590
May 24, 2008, 06:50 PM
How Many Mosins do you Own?

uh, 5 or more. iv began to loose count

Which Models Do You Have?

m91/30. M44 T53

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?

35$-110$

Do You Want More Mosins?

yes, i need a finn

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?

no. i dont hunt at all.

Eric F
May 24, 2008, 07:09 PM
I would like to see a scout version with the forward optic and all. But yeah they are cool guns

Wheeler
May 24, 2008, 07:16 PM
I have a M44 1946 Ishevsk and a Finn M39 that will keep a 2 MOA group with Albanian surplus ammo.

One of these days I'm going to get the necessary reloading items and try and work up a good match grade load for the M39.

Wheeler

RNB65
May 24, 2008, 07:48 PM
I have a '44 Ishevsk 91/30 and I like it a lot. Not an easy gun to shoot due to the recoil and the muscle power needed to cycle the bolt, but a fun gun nonetheless. About 30 rnds of heavy ball is the most I can shoot before my shoulder tells me it's time to switch to .223. I can shoot baseball sized groups at 50 yards and can hit milk jugs at 100yds all day long. Considering how poor my eyesight is beyond 50 yards, that's plenty accurate enough for me.

Geno
May 24, 2008, 08:06 PM
Actually, just did a new search 6,374 Mosin threads. :)

jd46561
May 24, 2008, 08:07 PM
I do like mosins, I collect Swiss rifles mostly. I have had several m38.s, m44,s, 91/30,s. All but 3 (out of 14 total) were not accurate, but I still like them. For the price there worth it. The m39 is a nice improvment. I prefer them over the average Russian mosin.
I also have an SVT-40 I have yet to shoot.
Here is an interesting 91/30. (it has a Beech stock).

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/DSC00192.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/DSC00198.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/DSC00200.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/DSC00197.jpg

SVT-40


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/Copyofbob964-1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/Copyofbob965-1.jpg

M39

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/Picture_174.jpg

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 24, 2008, 08:18 PM
How Many Mosins do you Own?
1, but more soon.

Which Models Do You Have?
M44. Going to get an M91/30, M38

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?
165... mine is soooo pretty.

Do You Want More Mosins?
hell yes, who doesn't? Doesn't my name give it away?

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?
No, but going to. Rear sight base wiggled loose in my 250 rounds straight in one day!

Go post some pictures...please.
That;s what will be below.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 24, 2008, 08:22 PM
Grimjaw, send me pics of that one you say you couldn't get off your hands. I may just make out a deal with you. What model?

You can reach me at my email: ljbuck_daft@hotmail.com

Thanks mate.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 24, 2008, 08:49 PM
How can you NOT like something that shoots bullets, and is built like a tank, rich with history, and used by Vasily Zeitsev to whack hundreds of Nazis, as portrayed in "Enemy at The Gates"? :)

One 91/30.

SimpleIsGood229
May 24, 2008, 09:06 PM
How Many Mosins do you Own?
One, sadly.

Which Models Do You Have?
A 1946 Izhevsk M44.

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?
$135 out-the-door at a gunshow. I know that seems high, but this is easily the nicest Mosin I've seen.

Do You Want More Mosins?
I would like to get a nice laminated '91/30 and/or an M39.

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?
I haven't had a chance to, since I just bought it in February. I do intend on taking it hunting, though.



I really, really like my Mosin! It's one of my very favorite firearms. I can do a lot of plinking with it, yet it fits me so well that it doesn't make me sore. Oh, and the booom is quite satisfying!

GarandOwner
May 24, 2008, 09:19 PM
How Many Mosins do you Own?

One

Which Models Do You Have?

91/30 Sniper

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?

$75 (not including the scope and mount)

Do You Want More Mosins?

No M1 garands are the only things i have/want multipules of ;)

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?

I dont hunt.

Here is the old range report of my mosin (by the way it was done off of a bench rest, the picture of me with my rifle was old and I didnt take one at the range that day :) )
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=258433&highlight=mosin

SimpleIsGood229
May 24, 2008, 09:32 PM
Wow! That's quite a gem you have there, GarandOwner! What's its name?

GarandOwner
May 24, 2008, 09:43 PM
Wow! That's quite a gem you have there, GarandOwner! What's its name?

Her name is Anna, named after a famous Russian tennis star that was better looking than she was at tennis ;) Im sure you know who Im talking about

Geno
May 24, 2008, 09:47 PM
I think I'll name my newest Mosin "Vera". That's a good Russian name. It was my Grandmother's name too.

tkendrick
May 24, 2008, 09:49 PM
I have one that is in pretty good shape. It was given to me by my son for Christmas a few years back, just before he left for Iraq, so it has some sentimental value.

Otherwise, I would give it away.

I don't want to start a flame war here, but personally I find them to be some of the worst POS rifles I have ever handled.

Ash
May 24, 2008, 09:53 PM
Interesting that the Soviets managed to defeat the Germans, eh? You have evidently never held the epoch of Mosins, the Finnish Mosin. Even ignoring that branch, the Polish Mosin can be quite a nice carbine. The Remington and Westinghouse made Mosins are quite nice, too. When you consider that Remington, Stevens, SAKO, Tikka, and even SIG and FN contributed to Mosin production, you realize there are some very fine quality Mosin rifles out there.

Here is quite a nice VKT made M27 with a trigger that is far better than any K98k or Enfield hoped to have (I have a GEW 98 and K98k, German export not RC).

Ash

Funderb
May 24, 2008, 09:55 PM
sorry. opinion granted. my response indeed was too harsh.

mosins just don't fit some people, some people have a taste for the intricate and high maintenance.

Ash
May 24, 2008, 10:01 PM
Probably too harsh. The guy gets to have his opinion. They aren't POS's, but he doesn't have to like them.

Ash

tkendrick
May 24, 2008, 10:01 PM
I have a friend that owns a Remington Mosin. I have shot it and several others over the years..

Wouldn't have any of them. A crappy design, no matter what quality of material or workmanship, is still a crappy design.

I know there's a lot of guys that like 'em. Thats cool, buy all you want.

The OP wanted opinions, I gave him mine. I don't like them.

Ash
May 24, 2008, 10:02 PM
Ah, well quite simply, you are wrong.

Ash

Funderb
May 24, 2008, 10:05 PM
well, now I don't feel so bad.


but yes indeed, what is it that is so poorly made about them?

Ash
May 24, 2008, 10:09 PM
Or, better yet, let's open the floor. What design elements of the Mosin do you find crappy, kendrick?

Ash

tkendrick
May 24, 2008, 10:10 PM
once again, one or two mosins are in bad shape, thus all are worthless pieces of junk. kendrick, don't say stupid s#$@ in stupid places. While our opinion is welcome, the conclusions you are jumping to are inane, and reflect poorly on your intelligence, both social, and literal.


Obviously, you don't allow any one to disagree with you.

I have shot several Mosins, including Finish and American (Remington) made. They were not (quality wise) pieces of junk. Who exactly is jumping to conclusions here?

In a world of military bolt action rifles, where the k98=Rolls-Royce, the Mosin is a Yugo.

Funderb
May 24, 2008, 10:11 PM
Read the edit that I wrote in.

No, generally I don't.

still, what's the flaw?

Vaarok
May 24, 2008, 10:17 PM
More than thirty, most, average of about $230 across all models, of course, tried to, and here's some of the Finns:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Vaarok/fullhouse.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Vaarok/939.jpg


Also:

In a world of military bolt action rifles, where K98= Rolls-Royce, the Mosin is a Yugo.

?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Vaarok/tigerm39.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Vaarok/tigerm39left2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/Vaarok/capped2.jpg

Funderb
May 24, 2008, 10:18 PM
I want your collection, vaarok.

Ash
May 24, 2008, 10:23 PM
Kendrick, you called them a POS. That, in my lexicon, equals junk.

The most successful sniper rifle in the history of the world in terms of distribution and total kills is the Mosin. Some of the most successful snipers in the world fired Mosins. One of the most successful snipers in the world didn't even need optics.

The record speaks differently than you.

Oh, and by the way, the Finnish M28/30 was held to a far higher standard of accuracy than any K98k.

Ash

Funderb
May 24, 2008, 10:24 PM
Don't you love arguing with someone that doesn't even take the time to understand your posts?

Mr White
May 24, 2008, 10:29 PM
Never liked them at first.
Then I bought an M44 on impulse for the hell of it at a gun show. Shot it quite a bit and shot a deer with it. Decided they were decent guns after all.
Bought an M39. '21 Izhvesk, B Barrel. Liked the smooth 2 stage trigger and loved the 2 MOA accuracy.
Then I bought 2 M28s. Neither were as accurate as my 39. Ended up selling them for a small profit.
Still have the 39 and the 44 and have no intention of getting rid of either one.

tkendrick
May 24, 2008, 10:38 PM
Ash & Funderb

The most successful sniper rifle in the history of the world in terms of distribution and total kills is the Mosin. Some of the most successful snipers in the world fired Mosins. One of the most successful snipers in the world didn't even need optics.


That's true. I'm not denying any of that. I can hit an 18" gong at 350 yds with my buds Remington Mosin and surplus ammo, every shot, every time. By your book, that means I have to like the gun?

Don't you love arguing with someone that doesn't even take the time to understand your posts?


I'm not arguing with you. I made a simple statement. I don't like them.

You immediately attacked me in a most offensive manner. You would think I had made an obscene comment about your mother.

Since you asked. I think the ergonomics are atrocious, the bolt handles are a joke, and I personally don't like a magazine hanging out the belly of any rifle. I don't much care for SMLE's for that same reason.

Vaarok- That is a gorgeous piece of wood on that rifle.

Funderb
May 24, 2008, 10:43 PM
there you go! words assembled into reasonable arguments of why you don't like them! excellent.

and about that, I was referring to you referencing my remark about all mosins being poor, and that being me jumping to conclusions, when it was very obviously a remark that sarcastically referenced your own.

so the point is, you probably picked a poor point to imply that mosins are "POSs" could have done so in a more tactful manner.

Ash
May 24, 2008, 10:49 PM
As I said, you don't have to like them. Plenty of folks don't. POS they are not, however, and your assumption in that direction was plain wrong.

And by the way, I initially defended your ignorant remarks. You are more than welcome to list reasons you don't like them. That is fine. They are, after all, merely steel and wood and their feelings won't be hurt.

However, design-wise, your assertations of their being POS's and being Yugo's compared with Mausers (remember, the Yugo did not hold up, was delicate, and could not perform, which is of course disproved by the Mosin's operation history) are plain wrong and without any kind of merit.

Ash

tkendrick
May 24, 2008, 10:53 PM
you probably picked a poor point to imply that mosins are "POSs" could have done so in a more tactful manner.



Uh!?!?!?

I hurt your rifles feelings?

I guarantee I have probably more than one gun in my safe that you would call a POS. It wouldn't bother me a bit to have you tell me so.

I guess my skins a little thicker than most.

grimjaw
May 24, 2008, 10:59 PM
Might we take the personal comments to IM and keep on the OP's topic?

I do think the Finn rebuilds are often nice (especially the stocks, ooo la la), but I still prefer other styles/actions to the Mosin.

jm

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 24, 2008, 11:01 PM
Vaarok, that "leopard" Mosin ROCKS!! :)

Shade00
May 24, 2008, 11:09 PM
Argh, I was supposed to be content with the M91/30 I bought yesterday. Now I'm thinking about picking up a couple of the cheaper M44s online...

MaterDei
May 24, 2008, 11:12 PM
I have two, a 91/30 and an M44. I just got my C&R on Thursday so I'll be adding more soon. I really enjoy the history, the variety, and the BOOM. :)

saturno_v
May 25, 2008, 12:00 AM
Tkendrik

You are entitled to your opinion of course, if you do not like them more power to you, nobody forces you to buy one...more Mosins for the true lovers!! :D:D:D

You called the Mosin POS and I still accept that as an opinion because is an expression that doesn't really qualify anything specific.

But then you made a specific claim saying "poor design" without going into details.

If you really think that Mosins are poorly designed we have 3 options here

1) You are a troll

2) Simply you do not know much about firearms design or you have an elementary knowledge about them at best (unfortunately common with several gun lovers)

3) Both

Considering that you dismissed the Enfield SMLE too, one of the greatest bolt action rifles ever engineered by the way, I'm inclined to think is option 2.

Beetle Bailey
May 25, 2008, 12:04 AM
Yes, I like them. I have five:

Finnish M28 "SY" Civil Guards (about $140)
Finnish M39 VKT (about $220)
Finnish M39 "B" Barrel (about $250)
Russian M91/30 ex-PU sniper (about $140)
Russian M91/30 replica PU sniper (about $450)

There are a few more models I am interested in, but I have to buy a new safe before I can buy any more long guns. So for now, I'm not buying any more.

I've only gone hunting once, and I used a Sako Finnbear. Took along an Enfield No. 4 as a backup rifle but didn't need it. Next time I go, the M91/30 replica sniper will probably be the backup rifle. But, hopefully I won't need it. ;)

BTW, I never get tired of seeing Vaarok's M39. The two I have are good lookers that attract attention at the range, but as much as I love them, they don't hold a candle to that specimen. It's great to know that rifle is in the hands of someone who appreciates it. :cool:

kingjoey
May 25, 2008, 12:47 AM
I have two Nagants, an M91 and an M44. I haven't fired the M91 yet and the M44 was recently overhauled for use as a product demo gun.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/kingjoey/Picture028.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/kingjoey/M44%20project/041908061.jpg

tkendrick
May 25, 2008, 01:28 AM
1) You are a troll

2) Simply you do not know much about firearms design or you have an elementary knowledge about them at best (unfortunately common with several gun lovers)


1. I am not a troll. I have never lived under a bridge in my life.

2. Your right, I don't lnow anything about gun design. I've only been shooting, rebuilding, sporterizing and unsporterizing (restoring) milsurps for about forty years. Obviously I don't have the knowledge or the right to have an opinion.

The OPs original post was:

Mosins, Do You Like Them?

My answer is no. I don't like them. I don't like them a lot.

I don't like raw carrots either.

OOOPS! Shouldn't have said that. Now I'm going to accused of having no knowledge of the dietary superiority raw carrots. Obviously I don't have enough knowledge about carrot design to justify having an opinion.

And pleeeease...don't ask me how I feel about Bud Light.

GarandOwner
May 25, 2008, 02:03 AM
Tkendrick, Im curious to your opinion....how is the Mosin a crappy design? Obviously there will be people out there who dont like certain guns, but that doesnt necessarily mean that it is a poor design

saturno_v
May 25, 2008, 02:20 AM
2. Your right, I don't lnow anything about gun design. I've only been shooting, rebuilding, sporterizing and unsporterizing (restoring) milsurps for about forty years. Obviously I don't have the knowledge or the right to have an opinion.


Again, you do not like them is perfectly legit..
If you say poor design is entirely another matter...it is simply not true and frankly technical ignorance.

The fact that for 40 years you have sporterized, un-sporterized, rebuilt, etc.. firarms doesn't really mean having an engineering knowledge or appreciation.....you are very good with your hands...it doesn't really imply anything else.

I know extremely gifted car mechanics that barely know the relationship between combustion chamber design and efficiency of an engine at high rev or the physics reason why long stroke engines have advantages in low end torque.

I explained to my gunsmith, a very experienced man "old school" from the military capable of quite exquisite work of craftmanship, all the thermodynamics and mechanics of fluids involved from when the primer ignite the charge to the moment when the bullet leaves the muzzle, why some cartridges are more efficient than others, the mathematics of twist rate, etc...

So what's your point??

I do not like Walther P38s at all...my opinion...do I say they have a poor design?? No because they are extremely well engineered pistols.
Opinion is one thing, arbitrary statements is another.

Do you want to know about a real poorly designed battle rifle?? The Ross Rifle

The AR-15/M-16 doesn't win first prizes either, at least in the first versions...

I could mention at least 10 technical reasons why the Mosin Nagant is extremely well designed and performed above and beyond its intended purpose...but I wil not bother....:rolleyes:

saturno_v
May 25, 2008, 02:22 AM
Tkendrick, Im curious to your opinion....how is the Mosin a crappy design? Obviously there will be people out there who dont like certain guns, but that doesnt necessarily mean that it is a poor design


I do not think he really knows....:rolleyes:

Bazooka Joe71
May 25, 2008, 03:46 AM
Mosins: Do You Like Them?

Yep, quite a bit.

I don't like raw carrots either.

What is wrong with you? Carrots are delicious! :eek:

TauZero
May 25, 2008, 04:49 AM
I have two, an M44 and a 91/30. I bought the M44 as part of a deal from Centerfire Systems where they sold two for $140 (shipping included). I sold one for $80 so my M44 cost $60. The 91/30 was my first milsurp bought at Big 5 for $75.

In mid-June my overtime check is coming in. Then it's HELLO FINLAND! I am SO getting an M39!!:D

tkendrick
May 25, 2008, 04:54 AM
1. Lousy ergonomics: The bolt handle is to short for the leverage required. It needs another inch at least. Maybe not a major flaw, but a big one as far as I'm concerned.

2. No safety. I'm sorry, but that is a big design flaw in my book.

3. It's easy to disassemble the bolt incorrectly, resulting in a broken firing pin. Just learn to do it right you say. OK, obviously not a problem in a combat zone where replacements might be a problem. What was I thinking?

4. As with any bolt action mag fed rifle using a rimmed cartridge, it is possible to feed the rounds in such a manner that that causes the rifle to jam. Granted, the proper use of stripper clips.... yada, yada, etc.

Seen it happen with Mosins, SMLEs and Krags.

Poor design.

So far I've been called a troll, tactless(OK, I'll take that hit), sarcastic, ignorant and stupid. I have restrained myself from answering in kind.

At this point nothing I say will have any further purpose but to draw more fire from people who only want affirmation that they're smarter than I am because I dared disagree with them.

I'll not subject myself to that, so I'm out of here.

Bazooka Joe71
May 25, 2008, 05:18 AM
2. No safety.

Huh?:confused:

Appaloosa
May 25, 2008, 06:51 AM
awww cmon tkendrick you don't like a rifle that diverts burning powder, hot gases, and pieces of brass directly into your face if the cartridge ruptures?

You even brought up the mauser? You should of known that would get you flamed in a commie gun love circle. A gun that in case of said failure diverts all that crap into the mag well away from the shooters eyes.

When out shooting with my brother in law he brought an m44 along. I even killed a can at the 300 yard line with it, of course I ran 299 yards first then bayoneted it. (ugh I shouldn't have said that, I am gonna get it now:()

FieroCDSP
May 25, 2008, 07:02 AM
I have an M44 and a 91/30, both Izzy. They're not in the best of shape appearance wise, but the bores are okay. Paid $99 for the M44 and $59 for the 91/30. Right now I think all of the good-uns have been bought up. The remaining good ones are the $179 jobs, leaving the shooter-grades for the $79 bins. If you're looking to do a sporter conversion, you should be able to find one cheap.

Tkendrick, the safety is built into the bolt. With the bolt closed, pull back on the back end of it and twist to the left. This locks it from firing and from opening.

BigBoreFan
May 25, 2008, 08:13 AM
I've got somewhere near 20 of them. Most of them Finn and a dandy 91/59 that will probably be non permenantly scouterized before the end of the year for deer season. Since I've moved back to the NE I don't find as many that I'm interested in. Not as many Finns up here like there used to be. Yeah, the safety is not viable, they are clunky, a bit heavy, but my.....with handloads or commercial ammo I have been able to get sub MOA with a 91/30 and a 28/30 with open sights. No wonder there were a lot of dead russians on the tiaga when they went up against the Finns. It was pretty easy to hit a 18 inch gong at 550m with only some basic rifle marksmanship techniques. Next project is making a 6.5x54R or a 45-70 with a Mosin Action. Pictures will follow as those projects move along.

Ash
May 25, 2008, 08:23 AM
Yeow, Kendrick, friend, you are ignorant of the design.

1. Lousy ergonomics: The bolt handle is to short for the leverage required. It needs another inch at least. Maybe not a major flaw, but a big one as far as I'm concerned.

Your opinion. This can be the case on some rifles while others the leverage is fine. That can certainly be a legitimate concern, though. However, Mosin sniper rifles have very long bolt handles.

2. No safety. I'm sorry, but that is a big design flaw in my book.

There is a safety, as pointed out. You're a gunsmith or claim knowledge without knowing this??? Of course, that does mean you do consider all French designs prior to the MAS 49 to be flawed, as they actually do NOT have safeties. Otherwise, the Mosin has one of the most positive and silent safeties around. However, it can be tough to use if you don't know the method. IF you learn how to use the safety, though, they are easy to use and very, very silent.

3. It's easy to disassemble the bolt incorrectly, resulting in a broken firing pin. Just learn to do it right you say. OK, obviously not a problem in a combat zone where replacements might be a problem. What was I thinking?

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I have never, NEVER, heard of that problem. You grasp the cocking knob and turn it. The bolt then disassembles. At no point is the firing pin under stress. I actually broke a pin once, but it was on purpose at the request of a museum which was accepting a Mosin for their WWII display. You have to really try to break a Mosin pin. Doing so in disassembly means you have no idea how to do it.

4. As with any bolt action mag fed rifle using a rimmed cartridge, it is possible to feed the rounds in such a manner that that causes the rifle to jam. Granted, the proper use of stripper clips.... yada, yada, etc.

You have very little knowledge of this design. Beyond ignorance of the safety, you are ignorant of the cartridge interrupter. There is no way to load the magazine which will make the rimmed rounds over-lap and cause rim-lock when operating the action. And, I have tried to indifferently load to cause rim-lock in the magazine. It just doesn't happen.

As the French lack safeties and the Enfields are rimmed with protruding magazines, both of them are POS's too, right?

Appaloosa, the issue is an utter ignorance guiding posts. Nobody has to like anything, and that is just fine. But making authoritative statements out of abject nescience is very Cliff Clavin.

Ash

GD
May 25, 2008, 08:32 AM
Thanks Ash for posting correct information. I am tired of people posting information that is simply incorrect. If you don't know something about a firearm, simply don't act like you do.

schnarrgj
May 25, 2008, 08:35 AM
Love the Mosin. I only have a few M44s, a few 91-30s and one 91. The most I paid for was was around $125. I do deer hunt with them and they do the job and do it well.

MaterDei
May 25, 2008, 09:18 AM
Although I disagree with Kendrick I never suspected he was a troll. That is until he made this comment.

I don't like raw carrots

He's definitely a troll. Probably a democratic underground pinko commie troll, no doubt with bad eyesight to boot!

Geno
May 25, 2008, 09:27 AM
I ate so many carrots when I was 5-years-olds that I turned yellow...not to be confused with cowardice. I'm not a coward, I'm a chicken, which came from eating poultry.

Back to topic...sheesh...what's wrong with me?!

Mosins: anyone seem the hard-chromed Mosins from Classic Arms? Wow! Here is a link. Go about 4/5ths way down the page:

http://classicarms.us/firearms.htm

Ash
May 25, 2008, 09:55 AM
Doc, I ate so many sweet potatoes and carrots at that age, the same thing happened. Everybody thought I had jaundice.

Ash

Funderb
May 25, 2008, 12:31 PM
I've split some hot round cases from tip to rim, and never had the gas diverted into my face. I suggest that if you have, you may need to check your headspace, because you likely have a major problem there.

The mosin is really designed to lock tight against the receiver/barrel, sealing as the rim of the case as tightly as possible there to prevent gas escaping. The only leaks would be around the primer and that escapes into the head of the bolt body, not your face.

saturno_v
May 25, 2008, 12:50 PM
It cracks me up when he said "Lousy ergonomics"

The Mosin is one of the best balanced long rifle ever designed....almost anybody knows that...almost indeed..

The bolt handle is to short for the leverage required

That is more of a quality construction problem (tolerances, etc...) or excessive wear in an used and abused rifle, not a design issues..a properly produced Mosin has an almost buttery smooth action..not a Mauser but is up there....

One of the biggest problem for the Mosin is the extreme variance in production quality during the years....compare a typical pre-WWII, Tula 91/30, for example with the vast majority of rifles produced between 1941 and 1943 and you know what I mean...

The Bolt is a masterpiece of reliability...the entire rifle is a masterpiece of simplicity...elegantly simple..

A lousy quality case or improper load can rupture but if the bolt face is properly tight, no hot gases in your face, the top receiver has a long lip, escaping gases lose their energy by the time they get out assuming a properly tight action....the solution is not elegant as a Mauser 98 (one of the best bolt action rifle designed if not the best by the way) but it works

As with any bolt action mag fed rifle using a rimmed cartridge, it is possible to feed the rounds in such a manner that that causes the rifle to jam. Granted, the proper use of stripper clips.... yada, yada, etc.


Ever heard of cartridge interrupter?? :eek::eek:

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 25, 2008, 05:57 PM
TKendrick says, "No safety"

Yes it does have a safety... pull back on the cocking piece and turn it all the way to the left. Impractical maybe, but don't say that there's no safety.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 25, 2008, 06:14 PM
"I have a friend that owns a Remington Mosin. I have shot it and several others over the years..

Wouldn't have any of them. A crappy design, no matter what quality of material or workmanship, is still a crappy design.

I know there's a lot of guys that like 'em. Thats cool, buy all you want.

The OP wanted opinions, I gave him mine. I don't like them."- Says Tkendrick

If you don't like them so much and you're thinking that they're POS's, why do you keep shooting them? You say the gun has a bad design? No. Simply put. No.

That rifle was made for uneducated and firearm illiterate conscripts... some of them never before seeing guns. They were made to be simple. When I picked mine up, I had no idea how the mosin was built or how it operated. I bought it because I liked the mosin nagant, and this one, the M44, had a bayonet attached, which I thought was pretty neat, so I picked it up. I did extensive research on this rifle, and I am a near expert, as a lot of people would say that know me, about that rifle.

When I bought it, I had no idea how to take it apart or anything. But you know what? The design came through. It's simplicity is genius. I took it down, and removed everything that wasn't silver soldered on or pinned on and gave it a good scrub. Then guess what? I forgot how to put it back together!!! I let it soak in some degreaser for a little while to get the cosmo off. But nonetheless, I picked up the pieces of the rifle, and did minimal thinking, and put it back together FLAWLESSLY because it is near impossible to screw up on something so simple. And to this day it is my most reliable rifle. It will shoot no matter what else goes wrong with it.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 25, 2008, 06:18 PM
actually, the cartridge interuppter works okay, but sometimes you get the shells into a rimlock. I hate it, but a few wiggles of the bolt seems to shake it free, lol.

Appaloosa
May 25, 2008, 06:31 PM
"Appaloosa, the issue is an utter ignorance guiding posts. Nobody has to like anything, and that is just fine. But making authoritative statements out of abject nescience is very Cliff Clavin." Ash

That has to be the nerdiest statement I have ever heard in my life. But after clicking on your sig, and being sent to what apears to be a dungeons, and dragons page that does not surprise me.

So listen kiddo don't believe me on the nagant issue I honestly dont give a crap. Anyone else curious call up The Colorado School of Trades. They have been teaching gunsmithing since 1947. Ask to talk to the design, and function instructor. He will let you know all about that little beauty.

Ash
May 25, 2008, 06:48 PM
Wow, a flame.

Gee, thanks.

(By the way, Nagant's design didn't win first place. It was Mosin.)

But, since you went to the site and now know I am a professional author who is also affiliated with a group of exploring authors, how about reading some of my stuff for a nice review? Reviews up to now have been quite positive and the four book signings we had this year sold out 3 out of 4 times. Heck, our presales were through the roof.

Did you also notice our very manly adventuring in the great wild? We really enjoyed kayaking across the Mississippi on multiple occasions, passing between ocean-going freighters (not just barge tugs), passing many miles through salt-water marshes as well. We have backpacked miles on various trails in the mountains of Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, as well as out west. The Frozen Chosen was a great hike where we did 45 miles in 2 1/2 days through the mountains where it never got above freezing. Real fun, as were sections of the AT, though doubtlessly others would have done more miles in the mountains. We also explored the mines of Red Mountain with our own gear. Oh, and did I tell you I am still a member of Sky Warn? Yeah, we used to chase tornadoes.

Oh, and Pacific Scientific has supplied us with digital video to use and abuse for our reviews (gave, mind you).

In any case, I don't need to talk to some guy you recommend. That's just plain silly. I made no personal attack upon you, but if you think a man who does not realize the rifle has a safety and that one can easily break the firing pin with a bolt take down is just plain ignorant and probably shouldn't have opened his mouth (or typed on his keyboard, as it is) and showed it for everyone to see, that is fine by me. You are wrong, of course, and perhaps should contact your guy for more information. If he doesn't realize a Mosin has a safety, he can hardly be called an expert, eh? In any case, I initially defended kendrick because he most certainly is entitled to his opinion.

Beyond that, if you were offended, well, get over it. You think me a nerd? Ah, well, I've been called far worse in my life and lived to tell about it.

But, if you think me a kid, then what does that make you?

Since you referenced our site, just so folks can know, here's the link to my bio over there. Of course, everybody is welcome to come over. We have a bunch of neat stuff over there.

http://www.wanderingmen.com/the-wandering-men/about-davis

Here's me, in a B-17 just before we took off. If you check out the site, you will find us climbing through the mostly-submerged casements of Fort St. Philip, built by the Spanish in the 1700's in south Louisiana (yeah, we got legal permission for that one). Did you know we possess the last known photographs of some of the structures on that site before they were destroyed by Katrina?

Ash

Bazooka Joe71
May 25, 2008, 07:25 PM
oops.

Cosmoline
May 25, 2008, 07:31 PM
I've had Mosins around for ten years now. I believe all told I've owned close to fifty of all stripes, but usually only one or two at a time. Right now I have a 1940 Tikka M-91 that's black as coal and shoots light ball MOA.

I want your collection, vaarok.

Indeed. We need to find out where he lives and conduct a ninja raid there sometime. The tiger striping on that Finn is the finest I've seen anywhere.

In a world of military bolt action rifles, where the k98=Rolls-Royce, the Mosin is a Yugo.

Um.. actually a YUGO would be a Yugo. Don't you know they made Mausers?

I've shot a LOT of rounds from a LOT of firearms. You name it, chances are I've either owned it or used it. I also have a very low tolerance for any firearm that doesn't work properly. Frankly this is what led me out of Mausers. They're too sensitive to headspace problems. Some of the wartime Soviet Mosins are pretty rough, but the design is foolproof and works over and over again. Any problems that arise have easy fixes. The Finns and other top notch Mosins are some of the most reliable, toughest firearms on the planet. I've had torture sessions with Finns that had 19th century receivers and shot them till the stock smoked and the barrel made odd high pitched noises. They still keep cranking on.

2. No safety. I'm sorry, but that is a big design flaw in my book.

?? Did you notice the knob turns to the left and locks to the receiver? That's the safety. It's the strongest safety I know of on any rifle. In fact that's one reason I love them for trail guns. I've had one fly loose when a rotting bridge collapsed beneath me in the Chugach, flip several 360's and smack hard butt-first on the rocks below with a round chambered. The safety held, and the rifle was no worse for the experience.

It's easy to disassemble the bolt incorrectly, resulting in a broken firing pin.

?? I think you're thinking of some other firearm. How the heck do you break a Mosin's firing pin!? It's a thick rod of solid milled steel! You could use it as a weapon in its own right.

As with any bolt action mag fed rifle using a rimmed cartridge, it is possible to feed the rounds in such a manner that that causes the rifle to jam

That's a valid point, but relates to the 54R not the Mosin. And there are numerous easy fixes if it crops up. Often it's just a worn out interruptor/ejector assembly which costs about $ .10 to replace. I have a whole box of the things here.

You should of known that would get you flamed in a commie gun love circle. A gun that in case of said failure diverts all that crap into the mag well away from the shooters eyes.

Commie guns? You need to learn more about world history me boyo. The Mosin-Nagant was created for the Imperial Russian Army and used by both whites and reds in the revolution. The Finns kept using it and fought back the Red Army during the Winter War. Many of these "commie guns" were made in America and have some of the nicest surviving American black walnut stocks in existence.

Also, the three part bolt acts to divert gasses just fine. I've ruptured hundreds of primers in various Mosins and fired overpressure rounds through them. I've had cases split on me, you name it. Never had anything hit me in the eye from one. The Win 94 is a far worse offender on that front, as is the vaunted Mauser.

The ergonomics and split receiver throw people off, esp. those used to standard Remchester bolt guns. But if you have an open mind about your firearms you can really get alot out of a quality Mosin.

Cosmoline
May 25, 2008, 07:59 PM
FYI here's some of "them commie guns":

http://www.amazingben.com/badass-simo.jpg

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/fileadmin/historyLearningSite/winter2.jpg

I often carry mine that same way on the trails. They seem to balance well on the shoulder.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 25, 2008, 08:07 PM
Much as I like them, I will agree that my main complaint is the stiffness of the bolt, combined with a lever that is too short to counterbalance this stiffness. As a result, these are not very fast.

Someone above said this is due to poor manufacturing, and that good ones are smooth as butter. I seriously doubt this, with the cock-on-opening, combined with short stubby handle, no matter how well made - the physics just aren't there.

mio
May 25, 2008, 08:29 PM
i own 1 a m44 i do plan on buying more. mine was $90 at cabelas. i havent hunted with mine yet because even though it holds a nice group its waaaay left so im going to scope it first.

saturno_v
May 25, 2008, 08:43 PM
Much as I like them, I will agree that my main complaint is the stiffness of the bolt, combined with a lever that is too short to counterbalance this stiffness. As a result, these are not very fast.

Someone above said this is due to poor manufacturing, and that good ones are smooth as butter. I seriously doubt this, with the cock-on-opening, combined with short stubby handle, no matter how well made - the physics just aren't there.


All of my Izhevsk you can almost open them and close with one finger even after heating up shooting several rounds

I said almost smooth as butter...not as smooth as a Mauser but very close....

The Mosin safety is one of the "safest" (no pun intended :D:D)...a bit tough and awkward to engage but when you set it, boy there are not many chances of coming off by mistake, going through thick brushes and vegetation, etc...return to ready to fire is extremely quick and, most important totally silent...a significant advantage in a combat situation...

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 25, 2008, 08:49 PM
All of my Izhevsk you can almost open them and close with one finger even after heating up shooting several rounds

That's interesting; thanks. I'd really like to try one like yours. A Mosin as smooth as a Krag or 88 Commission rifle - that'd be something!

Green Lantern
May 25, 2008, 09:13 PM
How Many Mosins do you Own? - One (as some one else put it, "just one unfortunately!" )

Which Models Do You Have? Izvhesk 91/30, 1934

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins? IIRC, about $89 - PLUS shipping, FFL t'fr and tax

Do You Want More Mosins? YES, I want an M44 Carbine!

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins? No, don't hunt at all, actually.

Go post some pictures...please.
I'll get back to ya, dial-up's a witch. ;)

ETA: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/KyleFayar/016.jpg
(sorry for the cut-off, but it's the only pic I have)

saturno_v
May 25, 2008, 09:19 PM
I forgot to mention

The designers of the 7,62 X 54R correctly anticipated the trend towards the efficiency of fat and short cases over 100 years earlier.....

Funderb
May 25, 2008, 10:05 PM
I find that it is easier to operate the bolt with the left hand, for a right hander, and you can often see left hand operation in old WWII photos, you also see soldiers in huge mittens, which would render bent bolt operation impossible. For a rested gun supplementary hand operation is fantastic for keeping sight picture.

FieroCDSP
May 25, 2008, 10:23 PM
This thread makes me want to dig a fox-hole in the backyard and lie in wait for "Ze Germans". And I don't think I have a drop of Rooskie blood in me.

MaterDei
May 25, 2008, 10:37 PM
Green Lantern,

That's one purty MN.

dirtyjim
May 25, 2008, 10:46 PM
i like them & i've got three of them right now.
a finn m91 that i paid $140 for several yers ago, a chinese t53 that i paid $52 for & a hungarian m44 thats in the process of being rebuilt into a modern style tactical rifle chambered in 6.5x55 swedish rimmed wildcat.
i'm going to order three more pretty soon , two to cut up & one to keep original
i hunted with the hungarian m44 before i tore it down

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 25, 2008, 11:48 PM
yeah the mosin safety is one of the safest around... and damned near impossible to come off accidentally.

SimpleIsGood229
May 26, 2008, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Premium Sauces:
Much as I like them, I will agree that my main complaint is the stiffness of the bolt, combined with a lever that is too short to counterbalance this stiffness. As a result, these are not very fast.

Someone above said this is due to poor manufacturing, and that good ones are smooth as butter. I seriously doubt this, with the cock-on-opening, combined with short stubby handle, no matter how well made - the physics just aren't there.

I can shoot Bulgie heavy ball through my '46 M44 pretty darn fast, without any difficulty in working the bolt. Granted, this is with brass cases.

Shoot steel-cased ammo and throw in some cosmo, then yeah, sticky, sticky bolt.

Danus ex
May 26, 2008, 12:21 AM
The more I get into rifle shooting, the more I've really come to like the Mosin-Nagant. I own seven and haven't yet had a bad one. I've never had sticky bolt, either.

Closed-mindedness is the primary problem the Mosin-Nagant faces with American shooters. The short, straight bolt handle, hooded post sights, and long trigger combine to turn off a surprising number of shooters. As long as you're not locked into any of the following, you can probably enjoy the Mosin:

1. Shooting Mauser-types
2. Hunting-style stocks
3. Finely-tuned triggers
4. Bench rest shooting
5. 100 yard shooting
6. Using a scope

Most bolt-action rifle shooters I see at the range do all of the above at once.

The Mosin-Nagant is adequate off the bench, but it's at its finest when you introduce more combat-type shooting variables: a variety of distances, positions, support, ammo, whatever. When you get a new Mosin-Nagant (or any other military surplus rifle, really), I suggest you do the following:

1. Grab some ammo, go to the 25 or 50 m/yd bench and check your windage. Shoot a group, then move the front sight accordingly, and repeat as necessary. Don't rely on single shots to judge your windage, and don't worry about your elevation.

2. Walk past the 100 and 150 m/yd benches and head for the 200 m/yd area. When the firing line is safe, walk out and hang some gong-style targets around 12" in diameter (or bigger if you like). Make sure it's something you can see at 200 m/yd. Back at the line, take a good prone position if you're able, set your sights on "2", and let 'er rip. You'll probably be hitting very close to the target. From there, a friend can help by telling you where you're hitting if he/she's got optics, and you can make adjustments (probably windage) as needed. Ultimately, I think 100 yard shooting is what ruins things for those who want to like their military rifle, Mosin-Nagant or otherwise.

rugbyer81
May 26, 2008, 01:11 AM
One of my Mosins, a '43 Izhevsk, cycles that Hungarian steel-cased ammo perfectly, but I have to hit the bolt on the bench at the range to get the bolt to open with the Czech steel-cased stuff. Can't figure out why this is, but i've read on here many times that Mosins are notoriously picky with ammo.

I have another one that is a '32 Tula that I haven't shot yet which actually has a much tighter bolt. Who knows, it could be the other way around with that one.

Danus ex
May 26, 2008, 01:38 AM
Interesting, rugbyer81--my two Russian Mosins are a 1932 Tula and a 1943 Izhevsk as well!

Ignition Override
May 26, 2008, 04:21 AM
RNB65:

As an older guy who is fairly new to real shooting and reading about rifles (sporadic plinker with Savage .22 when young-knew nothing), I have trouble getting any so-called regular groups with the Mosin 44 at the range from about 50 yards or so. They can be 3-8 inches, any where around the bull's eye, but after a few minutes, they tend to be on either side of it in a loose group. Standing is what I prefer, and all my guns only have iron sights.

Other than the Mosin's trigger, which feels stiff (much better iron sight, groups standing with Mini 14,30, SKS), what are the likely causes?
By contrast to the Mosin, the Saiga .223 has by far the smoothest trigger of any gun I've ever handled (the vast majority in gun stores). That Saiga has an overall appeal which I can not begin to explain, much more than its AK 'cousin'.

Realize that I've never had more than brief (few minutes) instruction from a firearms pro/former instructor recently on basic techniques, but have been plinking at grapefruits etc in the water since October. Can easily hit an orange in the water with the other carbines from about 30-40 feet, often with the first shot-split about in half and in a trajectory to about 20 feet.
Except for my amateur skills, would a gunsmith be able to really help the Mosin's trigger, or would that "GunDoc" place charge much?

dirtyjim
May 26, 2008, 08:44 AM
As an older guy who is fairly new to real shooting and reading about rifles (sporadic plinker with Savage .22 when young-knew nothing), I have trouble getting any so-called regular groups with the Mosin 44 at the range from about 50 yards or so. They can be 3-8 inches, any where around the bull's eye, but after a few minutes, they tend to be on either side of it in a loose group. Standing is what I prefer, and all my guns only have iron sights.

Other than the Mosin's trigger, which feels stiff (much better iron sight, groups standing with Mini 14,30, SKS), what are the likely causes?
By contrast to the Mosin, the Saiga .223 has by far the smoothest trigger of any gun I've ever handled (the vast majority in gun stores). That Saiga has an overall appeal which I can not begin to explain, much more than its AK 'cousin'.

Realize that I've never had more than brief (few minutes) instruction from a firearms pro/former instructor recently on basic techniques, but have been plinking at grapefruits etc in the water since October. Can easily hit an orange in the water with the other carbines from about 30-40 feet, often with the first shot-split about in half and in a trajectory to about 20 feet.
Except for my amateur skills, would a gunsmith be able to really help the Mosin's trigger, or would that "GunDoc" place charge much?

what ammo have you tried? most of the m44's i've had prefered heavy ball & all of my mosins hated wolf ammo. i would try a few differnt types of ammo & see if that helps first. if it doesn't i would check the crown to see if it has any muzzle damage & needs to be counterbored. if it looks ok then i would go to the stock & check the fit on it. a easy way to do it if you don't have any inletting black is to take a candle & soot the underside of the action then place it back into the stock, when you pull it back out you will be able to see if your getting even contact on the receiver. repeat the process with the barrel. you can also try shimming the action in the stock, my finn m91 shoots best with a 1/32" shim under the recoil lug. if you have really bad fitting stock you can pillar bed it.
your best bet on the trigger is to swap it for a finn m39 trigger if you can find one.
most gunsmiths would charge you double the price of the gun to rework the trigger but you can do it yourself very easily.

one trick is to cut some shims from a soda can & place about 3 or 4 of then between the sear & the action. you need to test the gun by smacking the butt with a rubber hammer to make sure it will not fire. to cut the shims take a pair of scissors & cut a 3x3 section from a soda can & place it between two pieces of plywood then drill a bunch of holes in it with a bit thats just big enough to let the sear bolt go through. then cut the shims out with a pair of scissors.

another trick used by finn target shooters was to modify the trigger & sear as shown in the pictures below.
first bend the sear as shown
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/ThetriggerassemblyBendthesearasshow.jpg

then polish the shaded area in the picture with a fine stone along with the mating area of the trigger
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/Polishtheshadedarea.jpg

then remove metal from the sear in the shaded area then polish with a fine stone
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/Removemetalfromtheshadedarea.jpg

the finns also used a very small mousetrap type spring to take the slack out of the trigger.

if you want a drop in trigger fix buy a hueber triggeer or if your very, very ,very lucky you'll find a valmet adjustable target trigger for your mosin, i haven't been that lucky yet so i'm adapting a bold trigger for a mauser m98 to one of my mosins & the timney trigger for a sako L579 has also been adapted to work on a mosin. with both of those you have to regrind to front of the sear to act as the bolt stock but i'm working on a better solution for that

Vaarok
May 26, 2008, 10:03 AM
I concur with trying different ammo, checking the crown, and such, but one very important thing omitted is to make sure your action screws are tight. Those two bolts attaching the action to magazine tend to work loose over time, and then your accuracy goes to hell.

tgrillo
May 26, 2008, 10:15 AM
I own 2 (91/30 1942 and m38 1943) just ordered a 91/30 hex reciever. Just recently I was watching a special on the siege of Stalingrad. They were showing how the Germans were stopped. One example was they took the German mauser and Russian Mosin plus the respective cleaning oils to a freezer that was -47 degrees Farenheit. The kind of winter that Stalingrad was having. After a day they went back. The cleaning oil that the germans used was solid and the Mauser was unable to be cycled to battery. The mosin cleaning oil (part oil, part gasoline) was still viscous and the rifle was able (with a little dificulty) to be cycle to battery. Not very scientific and I am sure the German soldier found ways to keep his rifle at the ready. But clearly if you were in the battle in -47 F weather and saw a Mosin and a Mauser laying there I think I know which one I would pick up!!!

Vaarok
May 26, 2008, 10:48 AM
And you'd be able to manipulate the bolt and safety despite mittens.

farmallmta
May 26, 2008, 07:42 PM
Not dumping on anybody's favorite rifle, but here's my MN experience.

I was introduced to vintage military rifles and caught the bug for them by shooting a friend's Mauser. I then acquired two VZ-24's, one sporterized and the other factory original, and the sweetest rifle ever made, a K-31. So I'm very fond of older rifles and particularly fond of the WWII-era bolt action types.

I then found a nice looking M-44 and had a friend who is into MN's check it out with me. He pointed out all the excellent features such as perfect head space, pristine bore, smooth stock and 98% original finish, truly a nice, nice M-44. So I bought it for $69 and some good ammo to shoot with it.

Come range time, it was the most disappointing thing I've ever experienced. At 50 yards shooting from a rest with a 3MPH wind from BEHIND me, the groups were 4 inches and variable. The variable is what puzzled me. The second range day, I brought ammo my friend assured me was primo for the M-44. Slightly better performance, groups down to 3" with less variability. But still sloppy compared to my VZ-24's and K-31. I mentioned to my MN buddy what the groups were spacing at and the variability, and he looked shocked and said I had a really good Mosin because his best usually does 5" groups. OMG!!!:barf:

Ignoring the hellish kick and god-awful noise of the thing, 3-5" groups at 50 yards might be great if you want to see the Kraut you hoped to shoot in the heart thrash around in gut-shot agony, but since I like to KILL my game animals instead of tracking them for 3 hours, that was the end of the Mosin-Nagant story for me.

I gladly traded it for a case of 8mm Romanian ammo.

This article seems to indicate that the Mosin can do better than mine did.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/huntingwithmosin/index.asp
Are any less noisy and kick-prone? Is there some magic formula where you "pull" down to keep the barrel steady or something? Do you have to be sh*tfaced on vodka to get into the MN shooting groove? LOL.

Hopefully, y'all are doing better with your MN's. I've never shot one that has done better so I don't know if they are any better than the one I briefly owned.

Ash
May 26, 2008, 07:48 PM
Did you fire with the bayonet extended or folded back? That really does make a difference.

I have found the 91/30's to be more accurate and easier to shoot (I do have a 91/59 that is very accurate) but my most accurate are Finnish. My absolutely most accurate is an M28/30.

Ash

RNB65
May 26, 2008, 07:55 PM
RNB65:

As an older guy who is fairly new to real shooting and reading about rifles (sporadic plinker with Savage .22 when young-knew nothing), I have trouble getting any so-called regular groups with the Mosin 44 at the range from about 50 yards or so. They can be 3-8 inches, any where around the bull's eye, but after a few minutes, they tend to be on either side of it in a loose group. Standing is what I prefer, and all my guns only have iron sights.

Other than the Mosin's trigger, which feels stiff (much better iron sight, groups standing with Mini 14,30, SKS), what are the likely causes?

You might try tinkering with the screws that hold everything together. If a stock screw is a little too tight, it might be putting pressure on the barrel and causing it to wander as it heats up.

Also, try different ammo. If you're shooting heavy ball, try light ball. Ammo can make a diff in any gun.

I always use a front end benchrest for stability. Try bracing the gun on something and see if that helps any.

Beyond that, I'd say take it to a gunsmith and let him check the condition of the throat, bore, and crown. Due to their age and who-knows-what maintenance history, every Mosin is a mystery unto itself. Fortunately, they're pretty cheap and you may have to buy several before you find one that is reasonably accurate. I suppose I got pretty lucky and got a good shooter on my first purchase.

p.s. Oh yeah, as others have mentioned, make sure you have the bayonet extended when you shoot. I don't use a bayonet on my 91/30, but it apparently can make quite a difference on the M44.

Cosmoline
May 26, 2008, 08:06 PM
There are much better Mosins than bargain bin M44's. You can also take steps to improve the accuracy of the rough ones. My long Finns are very quiet, have little flash and little recoil. I've shot them without ear protection before. Not that I'd recommend such a thing but it didn't have any major impact on me. Nothing like a carbine would.

Also the Polish M44's tend to be much more accurate than the wartime Soviet ones, so you can check those out.

Judging Mosins from a ratty Big 5 bin sample is like judging all Mausers from a ratty Turk from the rough side of the trench.

saturno_v
May 26, 2008, 08:11 PM
Mosin, Nyet! Mauser, Da! K-31, Da!

Not dumping on anybody's favorite rifle, but here's my MN experience.

I was introduced to vintage military rifles and caught the bug for them by shooting a friend's Mauser. I then acquired two VZ-24's, one sporterized and the other factory original, and the sweetest rifle ever made, a K-31. So I'm very fond of older rifles and particularly fond of the WWII-era bolt action types.

I then found a nice looking M-44 and had a friend who is into MN's check it out with me. He pointed out all the excellent features such as perfect head space, pristine bore, smooth stock and 98% original finish, truly a nice, nice M-44. So I bought it for $69 and some good ammo to shoot with it.

Come range time, it was the most disappointing thing I've ever experienced. At 50 yards shooting from a rest with a 3MPH wind from BEHIND me, the groups were 4 inches and variable. The variable is what puzzled me. The second range day, I brought ammo my friend assured me was primo for the M-44. Slightly better performance, groups down to 3" with less variability. But still sloppy compared to my VZ-24's and K-31. I mentioned to my MN buddy what the groups were spacing at and the variability, and he looked shocked and said I had a really good Mosin because his best usually does 5" groups. OMG!!!

Ignoring the hellish kick and god-awful noise of the thing, 3-5" groups at 50 yards might be great if you want to see the Kraut you hoped to shoot in the heart thrash around in gut-shot agony, but since I like to KILL my game animals instead of tracking them for 3 hours, that was the end of the Mosin-Nagant story for me.

I gladly traded it for a case of 8mm Romanian ammo.

This article seems to indicate that the Mosin can do better than mine did.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...osin/index.asp
Are any less noisy and kick-prone? Is there some magic formula where you "pull" down to keep the barrel steady or something? Do you have to be sh*tfaced on vodka to get into the MN shooting groove? LOL.

Hopefully, y'all are doing better with your MN's. I've never shot one that has done better so I don't know if they are any better than the one I briefly owned.

You got the less accurate gun of the Mosin-Nagant family, even if ou pick a top specimen construction quality wise....and you need to shoot it with the bayonet extended..this may easily explain the wide variance in your results.

The biggest problem with the Mosins, as I stated before, is the extreme variability in production quality...some are laser accurate, others could not hit a barn door from 50 yards.....I was lucky enough to get all 3 of mine, deadly accurate...inspect the rifle the best you can before you buy..take your time....as rule of thumb, avoid the Mosins produced during the WWI and especially those made during the first years of WWII (1940-1943).

For accuracy work you should stick with the long rifles and avoid the carbines (M-38 and M-44...however the M-38 is generally more accurate than the M-44)
The most accurate on average are, notoriously, the Finns.

As general guide, the best Russian 91/30s are the ones produced up to couple of years before WWII, let's say from 1934 to 1938, maybe until the beginning of 1939 and the few one made after the war when, eventually, the production stopped for good.

Franco2shoot
May 27, 2008, 07:03 AM
Someone indicated there was a Mosin category. If so can you point me to it? I can't find any dedicated thread, but sure wish there was one.
KKKKFL

DMK
May 27, 2008, 07:34 AM
How Many Mosins do you Own?

Which Models Do You Have?

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?

Do You Want More Mosins?

Ah, let's see:

One 1891, three 91/30s, one 1938, one 1944, two 91/59s, and three Finn M39s. So that's 11 all together. Plus a Finn SVT-40. Aside from the Finns, I never paid more than $100 for any of them. Most were about $70.

I mainly got into them because they were cheap actually, but the more I learned about the history and the design, I started to appreciate the Mosin-Nagant for what it was. They are crude and none of the Russian guns are anywhere near being tack drivers (with one of the 91/30s, it is a challenge just to get all the shots on the paper). But the old adage that "only accurate guns are interesting" is close minded and just not true.

Honestly, I don't know if I'd buy any more. If I did, it would likely be a Finn or maybe a Polish M44.

http://mysite.verizon.net/dmk0210/myarms/Pole22.JPG
While not actually a Mosin-Nagant, here's my Polish wz.48. It's a single shot 22LR trainer for the M44. This little beauty was found hiding in the rack at a gunshow and purchased for about $120

Ash
May 27, 2008, 07:45 AM
Okay, I'll bite.

Finnish Issue or Refurbs
1915 Izhevsk M91
1915 New England Westinghouse M91
1917 Remington M91
1915 Tula "Peter the Great" M91
1914 Sestrorysk M91
1922 Tula M91
1926 Tikka M91 - unstepped
1927 Tikka M91 - Stepped
1926 Relined P26
Undated M24
Undated P Series, relined
1924 Tula Dragoon
VKT M27
Tikka M27
Tikka M28
SIG M28
SAKO M28/30
1940 SAKO M39 - Straight Wrist
1942 Belgian B M91
1942 Belgian B M39
1943 SAKO SkY M39 - matching stock
1941 SAKO M39
1942 VKT M39
1970 unmarked M39

Russian/Non-Finnish
1916 Izhevsk ex-dragoon - eagles intact
1943 Izhevsk 91/59
1943 Tula 91/30 PU Sniper (Sarco Import)
1943 Izhevsk M44 Trials carbine
1915 Czech M91/38
Polish M44
Hungarian M44
Romanian M44
Chinese Type 53
1914 Tula M91 - Serbian with war damaged stock
1943 Izhevsk M91/30

Franco2shoot
May 28, 2008, 12:37 PM
This topic has gone round and round, but bears a quickie just to pass along findings if for nothing else. \\

I stumbled on the sticky bolt when I purchased some steel cased ammo. Can't tell you what it was today, but remember the uneasy feeling when the bolt wouldn't cycle easily. I had been anal about cleaning and couldn't believe I was having trouble. In retrospect, I was using too much gun oil.

Ok so here's my take and its nothing more than opinion, like noses everyone has one. Here's what happened. My son and I were up at our favorite shooting site, and using the copper washed tin of ammo. He has a '43 Ishevsk M-44 and I was shooting my 9130. Both of us started experiencing the sticky bolt, and I was sure it was the ammo. The following week, when stiff operation continued, I reached into the back of the Jeep where our cleaning box was sitting and pulled out a tin that had a mixture that I used on my black powder 1868 Remington. Its Burts Bees wax, Olive oil and bore butter all melted down. I took a pinch between my thumb and forefinger and wiped it in my right hand. Now when I pulled out 4 or 5 rounds of 7.62 some of this slime got on the cartridge cases and low and behold the sticky bolt went away.

What I think happens with steel cases is that they are thousands thinner than brass. If you have any petro oil at all in the chamber the hot gases seep backwards and form a sticky glue that makes extraction stiff. If your bolt is sticky with any steel case or copper washed ammo, make sure you use an over sized swab to clean out any residual oil from chamber walls. Having an Italian salad before shooting and getting some olive oil on your hands might help too... heheheh

KKKKFL

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 28, 2008, 12:51 PM
Yeah I heard of that... but haven't tried it... maybe i should. My brass casings give the M44 a sticky bolt syndrome too.

tinygnat219
May 28, 2008, 01:13 PM
I own 10 of them, so I guess I "like" them well enough.
To answer your questions:
How Many Mosins do you Own? 10

Which Models Do You Have? M39 Finnish, 1891 Westinghouse, 4 91/30s, 2 M-44s (one Romanian), 1 91/59, 1 M-38, 1 T-53 (Chinese)

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins? 325 for the Finnish, between 35 (for the Chinese) and 150 each for everything else.

Do You Want More Mosins? Yes, but I am interested in the Finnish ones only at this point.

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins? Not yet.

Go post some pictures...please.

dispatch55126
May 28, 2008, 07:39 PM
How Many: 2 and counting

Which models: 1938 Tula 91/30, de-bubba'd Type 53

How much: $200 total for both

Do you hunt with them: Took my first deer with the 91/30

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj296/dispatch55126/DSCF0892.jpg

Brass Rain
May 28, 2008, 07:45 PM
I like Mosins a lot, but don't own one now--nor any rifle yet. But I can easily see making one my second or third rifle. 7.62x54r (that's the caliber, right?) isn't exactly something you can find at Wal Mart.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 28, 2008, 11:33 PM
well the guns can be ordered off of the internet, so ask one of these guys here, becaue I wont buy anything but ammo off of the internet. And ammo can be purchased off of the internet too. Cheaperthandirt.com has some nice bulgarian ammo, 440 rounds for like 70 bucks I think.

cracked butt
May 29, 2008, 09:02 AM
Mosins: Do You Like Them
No, but they are interesting at least.

I currently have:

M38
Romanian M44
A couple of wartime Ishevsks 91/30s
A prewar Ishevsk 91/30
A Finn captured Tula

Out of the bunch, the only one that hasn't severely disappointed me as far as accuracy goes is the prewar Ishevsk.

Iwon't be buying any more mosins unless they are from Finland, and for the price, I'd rather have something Swedish made.

Halo
May 29, 2008, 09:56 AM
Count me among the Mosin-Nagant fans. I have two:

1946 M44 - Izhevsk
1942 M39 Finn - Sako, built on a receiver made in 1896.

foghornl
May 29, 2008, 10:11 AM
Have 1, a 1954 vintage Romanian M-44.

it likes the Czech Silvertip and Albanian ammo the best.

I call it my Soviet FlashyLoudenBoomer...actually made a guy shooting a .300WinMag leave the range one day...said MY gun was TOO *** LOUD!

ArmedBear
May 29, 2008, 11:38 AM
I have a couple. Shot one of them once. Can't say I like them. They were cheap, though. Can't resist cheap.:)

Halo
May 29, 2008, 02:19 PM
People are always talking about the recoil and report of the MN carbines. Are they really more noteworthy than the recoil of similar rounds? I've never fired a .308 or .30-06, so I don't really know how they compare in terms of recoil.

Does firing my M44 give me genuine centerfire credentials, or am I still missing out on the full experience of, say, a .30-06? :)

BigGunsMoreFun
May 29, 2008, 05:45 PM
I think the Mosin rifles are the most crudely made but most excellent shooting rifles ever made for the price. :uhoh:

I have two full size Mosin 91/30s. I have two Mosin M-38 carbines and two Mosin M-44 carbines. :p

I paid about $100 each for the 91/30s, around $60 each for the M-38s and around $70 each for the M-44s. It's been a while since I bought them so I think the price may have gone up on them. :scrutiny:

I also have one of the Mosin Nagant Revolvers. It looks nice but it's a piece of crap as far as power and accuracy. I'd call it a fair belly gun but not much else. I paid about $50 for it. I just wanted one to have in my collection. :cuss:

As far as the rifles and carbines go, they are all great shooters out to 100-150 yards. They are definitely not tack drivers but I can usually get a 3" group out of any one of them at 100 yards. :what:

Like I said they are crude and most folks find them ugly but I like them and you can't beat them for the price and surplus ammo is still readily available and fairly cheap too. The only downside is the ammo is corrosive but if you know how to clean the chamber and barrel for corrosive ammo and do it as soon as you finish shooting, it doesn't hurt anymore than good ammo does in my opinion. :eek:

I am not where I can upload pictures right now. I think I bought one of the rifles from Century and one of the carbines from J&G. The rest came from gunshows. :rolleyes:

Molon Labe,
Joe
:D

Mike 56
May 29, 2008, 05:48 PM
Halo, your baptised compared to a M44 a 30/6 or 308 won't be a problem.

I am a Mosin Nagant fan i got the bug i have two M44s a 1945 with Mojo sight and a 1948 scout, two 91/30s both 1943s one is a scout with a HC trigger the other has a ATI mount with a 12 X scope, 1943 M38, 1941 Finn M39, M28 Finn, both Finns are tack drivers, and Wz48 Polish trainer.

Mike

Funderb
May 29, 2008, 06:11 PM
what ammo were you shooting from your revolver, biggunsmorefun?

The actual nagant rounds work best. and by the way, sergi mosin has nothing to do with the revolver.

RNB65
May 29, 2008, 06:37 PM
what ammo were you shooting from your revolver, biggunsmorefun?

Man, talk about a leading candidate for the Worst Gun Ever Made award. EWWWWW :barf:

Threejs
May 29, 2008, 07:28 PM
How Many Mosins do you Own?
A few

Which Models Do You Have?
M44, M38, M39, M91/30, M91/59, M91, Type 53

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?
Depends on which one we are talking about.. Cheapest $35. Most expensive $200

Do You Want More Mosins?
Sure

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?
Only if you count paper animals.


Some of them shoot better than others. I have 5 or 6 I will never part with, the others.... Well ya never know.

Top to Bottom
Tikka M91 1942, Izhevsk M91 1915 , New England Westinghouse M91 1915, VKT M91 1940
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/Bogarath/Rifles/074.jpg

Left to Right
1946 Izhevsk M44
1953 Hungarian M44
1954-6 T-53
1943 Izhevsk M44
1944 Tula M44
1952 Hungarian M44
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/Bogarath/Rifles/075.jpg

Left to Right
1942 M38 Izhevsk
1943 M91/59 Izhevsk
1943 M91/59 Izhevsk
1944 M39 VKT
1943 M38 Izhevsk
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/Bogarath/Rifles/076.jpg

Top to Bottom
1927 Izhevsk
1936 Tula Finn Capture Hex Reciever
1940 Tula Finn Capture
1939 Tula
1942 Tula
1938 Tula
1937 Izhevsk
1943 Izhevsk ex-sniper (PU)
1926 Tula
1944 Izhevsk ex-sniper
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/Bogarath/Rifles/077.jpg

Hi. I'm ThreeJs, and I am a Mosiholic.

BigGunsMoreFun
May 29, 2008, 07:31 PM
Thanks for the tip on Mosin not having anything to do with the Nagant revolver. I learn something new everytime I come to "The High Road". As for ammo, I usually buy any old cheap surplus ammo I can find. The modern ammo for this revolver is very expensive. :(

I have also found out that you can safely :confused: (although not very accurately) shoot .32 S&W Long out of this gun. I don't recommend it since it is not the proper ammo for the gun. If anyone tries it, don't blame me for any mishaps. Some old guy at the range was shooting his with this ammo (.32 S&W Long) one day so after looking at the pressure of .32 S&W long compared to Nagant ammo I was pretty sure it would not blow the gun up in my hand. :confused: It does split the brass cases when you use this ammo. My gun is an original Nagant, not one of the ones converted to .32ACP.

Anyway, the .32 S&W stuff won't even hit a 2'x2' piece of cardboard at 10 yards. I've bought the proper surplus Nagant ammo from SOG and at gun shows. It usually comes wrapped in green wax paper with string tied around it. I'm told it is Polish surplus. I can't read the writing and don't recognize the language on the label. I'm pretty sure it's not Russian. I think their are 30 or 40 rounds to a package. I can hit an 8" target at 10 yards every shot but that's about it.

I've never paid for any of the modern Nagant ammo because it costs almost $1.00 a round everywhere I've seen it. I'm thinking the gun would do better with good ammo. I really just bought it for a collectors piece. I have plenty of handguns to shoot and I tend to do better with the larger caliber guns. :rolleyes:

Molon Labe,
Joe
;)

Halo
May 29, 2008, 09:34 PM
The Nagant revolver makes an interesting appearance in Enemy at the Gates at the river crossing, where Soviet NCOs use them to shoot conscripts who try to flee the marauding German dive bombers. That movie is a must see for any fan of Mosins.

dispatch55126
May 29, 2008, 09:44 PM
Jokingly I asked my wife if I could lay in bed with my 91/30 while we watched that movie and during a popcorn break I replaced the desiccant in my safe and ended up working the 91/30's bolt a few times. Anyways, she heard it cycle up stairs and when she came down she gave me a weird stare.:D

I wonder what she'll think now that the 91/30 has a friend and since it is spring time...:rolleyes:

CBS220
May 29, 2008, 10:04 PM
People are always talking about the recoil and report of the MN carbines. Are they really more noteworthy than the recoil of similar rounds? I've never fired a .308 or .30-06, so I don't really know how they compare in terms of recoil.

No.

Nothing particularly dental-filling rattling about them. They have this reputation on the internet, but it is without any basis in fact... I've seen very novice shooters handle them with no problem, many of small and feminine size.

The one surplus rifle I have come by that most new shooters don't want much of is the lighter variants of the Mauser 98, especially with heavier loads...

That said, 7.62X54R is a good cartridge that will do everything .30-06 will, within reason. It's somewhere between .308 and .30-06, and has a little more leeway with heavier bullets than the .308, in my experience.

Poor East Texan
May 29, 2008, 11:23 PM
One.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/PlayboyJoeShmoe/M39overall.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/PlayboyJoeShmoe/M39info.jpg

Tripped across this Finnish Captured 1941 VKT M39 at a gunshow in Pasadena, TX some years ago for $79

Have only shot it once and not for quite a while (at least 4 years) but as I recall it kicked like mule and punched holes in targets.

I love it for the history. I could PROBABLY make the wood look better but am rather lazy about such things.

I'd dearly LOVE to find one of those .22 models!!!

rockinrussky
May 29, 2008, 11:55 PM
Do I like 'em? Yes. Does my shoulder like it? Not so much.
I only own one and it only cost $80 at a gun show about a year ago. I know its an Izhvesk but there is no year marking on the top of the receiver. I haven't found the marking for it anywhere else either, but I guess it makes it a unique item. Like my dog Ringo, I adopted it and learned to love it for all its imperfections.
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/4/5/29/t_DSC01746m_65b8466.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/5/29/f_DSC01746m_65b8466.jpg&srv=img33)

Sgt.Dusk
May 30, 2008, 12:12 AM
I dont just like them......I LOVE them.
When I first bought my M44 it was for plinking and fun time at the range.
Then I had that ati bolt/scopemount installed and I found out that M44 was capable of 25mm grouping to 100meters. After that my M44 has been my most used / loved range gun.
Any day now it will get a new stock that I ordered from midway. Im planning taking my m44 to the gunsmith and have a silencer / suppressor installed just to tame that wild kicker a little.

rangerruck
May 30, 2008, 12:14 AM
all matching numbers, almost moa capable, with about 5 moving parts, and another 5 total. can drop it on someone and kill them, kicks like a mule.
m38. whats not to like for a 100 dollar, unfired, unissued rifle?

Stevie-Ray
May 30, 2008, 01:16 AM
I looked at one at Gander Mountain last night. It was $149 which seemed like a lot, but it looked brand new! It was literally gorgeous! Now, of course, I want one.

Halo
May 30, 2008, 09:42 AM
The thing about the M44 is, even if your shot failed to put down the enemy, that big old pig sticker on the end of it would surely put them in a world of hurt.

Vaarok
May 30, 2008, 10:00 AM
Everyone overstates the fireball, and intentionally shoots heavy ball or the flashiest commercial ammo to emphasize this characteristic.

When the M-44 is loaded with 148gr (white-tip) light-ball ammo, as it's supposed to be for combat, is a very manageable rifle.

kBob
May 30, 2008, 11:39 AM
I just have the one M1944 Izzy that was given to me as a gift ages ago. Yes I did it correctly and went to the dealer myself and did the paper work so I know they paid too much for it, $150 but that was over 20 years ago, they were not that common, but would be with in two years (who knew) and I had commented to the gift giver earlier that it was interesting.

WHen Chinese ammo became avalable I shot it a bit with Chinese silver tip. My first shot was from a kneeling possition. Several friends standing behind me, all center fire rifle shooters and handgunners, thought the rifle had exploded when I fired it. THey reported that the fire ball was visible as something like a halo around my head, that sweat flew from my hair and dust lept from my back. I did not think it was that bad.....but I had been shooting a very hot and heavy loaded .45-70 Marlin lever action earlier in the day.

I shot when ever the urge hit and a friend gave me some of the Hanson ammo when it was comming in before the break up of Yugoslavia ( I later owned a Yugo BTW) This seemed to give me better accuracy, but it has been a long time. Most recently I shot it with some East German plastic cored training ammo. It hit the backstop repeatedly at 100 yards. To me the plastic core training ammo sounded louder than the other ammo, but that could have been a function of sound and over pressure thresholds on my hearing protection.

For whatever reason my rifle does not like strippers. It appears that the extractor is so long it enterfeers with the loading and I have been able to use strippers by disingaing the bolt from its stop and pulling it a hair further back....making stripper loading slow and iffy as in iffy I drop the bolt from the rifle I will be more agrivated than having to load single rounds.

If you want fireballs, a sore shoulder, premature deafness, and a busted knuckle trade your M-S on a Spanish 7x57 Cavalry carbine today. FOr me the felt recoil (purely subjective) is worse on an unmodified FR-8 than an M-S YM (and body shape and hold)MV.

FOr the cost I think a M-S is a good rifle and beats the snot out of no center fire rifle at all when you need one.

Fortunately mine was not behind the seat of the pick up on the way home this morning when one of the biggest, nicest looking local white tail bucks I have seen here abouts was just standing on the right of way. (no shooting or loaded guns on right of way, no shooting from vehicle, no out of season deer harvesting allowed) He was however still in velvet for this year. I hope he makes it across the highway or stays off the right of way incase some one with little will power and a rifle in the truck does come by. I feel confident that the M44 and one of those remaining Hanson soft points would have been more than capable of making a harvest, even if I would not have done it any way.

-Bob Hollingsworth

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 30, 2008, 12:08 PM
The Mosin's almost perfect for deer hunting if you find the right rounds. It will (aimed right that is) drop bambi in a single shot.

The Deer Hunter
May 30, 2008, 12:29 PM
How Many Mosins do you Own?

Only one.

Which Models Do You Have?

A 1944 Hungarian M44

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?
$150

Do You Want More Mosins?

Maybe a 91/30 or something down the road...But probably not.

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?


I could...But no I do not.

Nugilum
May 30, 2008, 02:21 PM
OK, here I go breaking one of my cardinal rules...

How Many Mosins do you Own?
I have Three :)

Which Models Do You Have?
M44 (Izzy 1944), M91/30 (Tula 1939), and M91 (New England Westinghouse 1915 - low serial number ;)) with all the appropriate accessories

How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?
M44 - $120, M91/30 - $99, M91 - $40 :D :D

Do You Want More Mosins?
After some pondering, I believe no

Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?
No. I'll pay the mercenaries (butcher shops) for my meat :cool:

Vic303
May 30, 2008, 02:43 PM
My favorite MN is the Finn M39. It looks like a 20th century battle rifle (bolt action variety). The rest of the MNs show their 19th C roots a lot more. I find the action to be slow compared to an SMLE, but they are just FUN to shoot!

Funderb
May 31, 2008, 05:51 PM
straight bolt slower than a turned COC bolt? no way!

hah, just kidding. They are a tough package to be fast with, that's for sure.

Vaarok
May 31, 2008, 11:01 PM
Use the heel of your hand, not your fingers. It's like the stickshift in a dump-truck.

Sound Dude
June 1, 2008, 07:54 PM
MNs? Oh Yeah.

How Many Mosins do you Own?

35 (it's a sickness)

Which Models Do You Have?

Let's see:
91 - 3
91/30 - 8
91/M39 (Finnish) - 9
91/59 - 1
44 - 14 1-Polish, 1-Romanian, 7-Hungarian, 5-Russian

and an SVT-40 (not a mosin :))


How Much Did You Pay for Your Mosins?

The M39s - 3 for $99. You read that right. My only regret is I didn't buy more at that price! All are in fantastic shape. My favorite MN variant.
The 44's - anywhere from $30 to $66 ea.
The 91/30 - anywhere from $35 to $55

(Back when a C&R could really buy a bargain!)

Do You Want More Mosins?


Yes - but given today's prices, I'm picky.


Do You Hunt with Your Mosins?

I took an M39 elk hunting once. It does gets heavy.


The recoil isn't so bad. If you want a sore shoulder fast, shoot a Styer M95 straight-pull carbine in 8x56R. Even my 275lb, 6'7" brother had his butt kicked by that gun!

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