[RTFM]

I have been doing some research lately on gun cleaning chemicals, strictly informal and for my own use.
I was trying to decide if I want to continue to use the old tried and true Hoppe’s #9 on the new SIG 229 or something newer,
What I have found kind of disturbed me. See the following quote for the Michael’s of Oregon Co. M.S.D.S. (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Hoppe’s #9 section 7, Health Hazards.

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Manufacture’s Name: MICHAEL'S OF OREGON CO.
Street Address: 2100 S. Silverstone Way
City, State, Zip Code: Meridian, Id 83642
Emergency Telephone No.: (208) 362-0793
Speak With: Safety Personnel

SECTION 7: HEALTH HAZARDS
Primary Route(s) of Entry: Inhalation and Dermal
Signs and Symptoms of Exposure
a. Overexposure Effects: Headache and dizziness. Lung, skin and eye irritation.
b. Chronic Effects: Dizziness, weakness, anemia. Effects liver, kidneys, and bone marrow.
1. Inhalation: Causes nausea, cough, headache, dizziness and lung irritation
2. Eyes: May cause irritation if not removed.
3. Skin: Causes dryness and skin irritation.
4. Ingestion: Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Causes gastro-intestinal irritation, weakness, dizziness, headache, pulmonary
irritation. Extreme care must be taken to prevent aspiration.
5. Medical Conditions Potentially Aggravated By: Lung, liver, kidney, bone marrow and skin diseases. Susceptible
individuals may have an allergic reaction.



A side note, which I thought was interesting. M-pro 7 (Gun Cleaner) and Mil-Comm (TW-25B) both post their M.S.D.S. on their web sites and there are no harmful effects stated in the M.S.D.S. where as I had to request the M.S.D.S. from Michael’s of Oregon, which they emailed to me right away.

Please note, I am NOT trying to dissuade anyone form using good ole #9, I use to use it on the rifles, and the old SIG.
But with this little bit of research I have done, the Hoppe’s has hit the circular bin. My consideration is that my daughter (15 yr old) likes to help clean the guns as much as she likes to shoot them.
Am I over reacting? What do you think?

Reference
M-Pro 7 M.S.D.S http://www.mp7.com/documents/MPro7GunCleanerMSDS.pdf
Mil-Comm M.S.D.S. http://www.mil-comm.com/pdf/949430484.pdf

[Futo Inu]

Yeah, it'd be kinda bad if we gun owners are all too dizzy to match wits with HCI types in a debate. Actually, serious subject. I sometimes wonder if the breakfree clp I get all over my hands is absorbable and harmful. I tried using vinyl gloves instead of latex, but it ate right through those too.

[RTFM]

Easy enough, here is the link to Break-Free CLP's M.S.D.S.
Section VI covers Health Hazards.
Link
http://www.break-free.com/products/msds/msds_clp_liquid.pdf

*Note this is for the liquid M.S.D.S.*
Mfg.: Break-Free Inc. an Trade Name: Break-Free CLP Liquid Information Phone: 904-741-5400
Armor Holdings Inc. Company Description: Cleaner, Lubricant, Preservative Date Prepared: June 6, 2003
13386 International Parkway DOT Class: Not Restricted Cargo Supersedes: September 27,
2002
Jacksonville, FL 32218 NFPA Rating: Health=2, Fire=1, Reactivity=0 Prepared By: Don Yoder
TRANSPORTATION EMERGENCY PHONE NUMBER: CHEM-TEL, INC. 1-800-255-3924 (U.S. and Canada) OR 1-813-979-0626 (call collect)

Section VI
HEALTH HAZARD DATA
Primary Routes of Entry: Inhalation, Ingestion, Skin, Eyes.
SIGNS & SYMPTOMS OF EXPOSURE:
Inhalation: Irritation. May cause lung damage if liquid is inhaled. High vapor/aerosol concentrations (greater than approx. 700 ppm. Attainable at
elevated temperatures well above ambient) are irritating to the eyes and the respiratory tract and may cause headaches, dizziness, anesthesia,
drowsiness, unconsciousness, and other central nervous system effects.
Ingestion: The mixture has a low level of toxicity (LD50 > 5g/kg). Gastrointestinal irritation. Laxative effects. Nausea. Vomiting. Pulmonary aspiration
hazard if swallowed and vomiting occurs.
Skin Contact: Irritation. Prolonged and repeated contact can defat the skin which may result in dryness, dermatitis and cracking of the skin.
Eye Contact: Irritation. Symptoms include: Stinging, Tearing, Redness and Swelling.
Acute or Chronic Health Hazards: While expected to be moderately irritating from the skin, eye and oral testing done, as with all petroleum
products, prolonged and repeated contact with the skin could cause irritation and possible dermatitis. The synthetic oils and additives could also be
absorbed through abraded skin, but the information from dermal toxicity tests suggest that no acute systemic effects would be expected in healthy
individuals.
EMERGENCY AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES Follow good industrial hygiene practices: If splashed in the eyes, flush with water immediately for 15
minutes. If spilled on clothing, remove soiled clothing and wash skin with soap and water. Launder all contaminated clothing before reuse. If
swallowed, DO NOT induce vomiting. If conscious, drink large quantities of water and seek immediate medical attention. If inhaled, move to fresh air.
Anesthetic or narcotic effects could occur from overexposure to vapors, so call a physician. If available, give oxygen. If breathing stops, give
mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.
NOTE: This material is not known to contain any carcinogen required to be listed under the Hazard Communication Standard 29CFR 1910.1200 from
the National Toxicology Program (NTP) or the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) sources.

hmmm. Laxative effects !! :what:

[Cacique500]

You're over reacting...as with any chemicals just make sure you use proper safety equipment & ventilation...in this case gloves, safety glasses, & ventilation.

RTFM, on the MSDS above for Break Free you have 'May cause lung damage if liquid is inhaled' - and they mean that literally...you have to inhale the LIQUID. So unless you're really doing something wrong, that shouldn't be a factor.

Read the following from an MSDS:

7. HEALTH HAZARD DATA

Inhalation: Extremely high concentrations of dust are typically self-eliminated due to the nuisance conditions they create. Overexposure may produce irritation of the mucous membranes, nose, throat, coughing and shortness of breath. In addition certain products may contain small amounts of silica particles less than 5mm in diameter. These silica particles are capable of causing silicosis if inhaled in high enough concentrations over an extended period of time. The principal manifestation of silicosis if difficulty in breathing. This condition can progress to dry cough, shortness of breath on exertion, decreased lung function and pulmonary fibrosis.

Skin Contact: May cause irritation, particular on damp skin. Repeated or prolonged contact could lead to dermatitis.

Eye Contact: May cause irritation and conjunctivitis.

Ingestion: May produce nausea, vomiting, abdominal discomfort and, if swallowed in very large amounts, may cause increased urination and central nervous system depression.

You know what chemical this is for? Sodium Chloride - SALT!

My point is I work with a lot of very nasty chemicals every day and I am very familiar with MSDS sheets and what are reported on them. Hoppe's is nowhere near the top of my list for chemicals to worry about. I bet you have numerous other household products that are potentially a lot more hazardous...bleach, ammonia, etc.

Be safe!

[Atticus]

Regular, repeated exposer without proper handling is not a good idea with any solvent. I keep my Hoppes use to a minimum.

Not to change the subject- but has anyone tried "Gun glove". It's not the answer for every compound, but it couldn't hurt. I like the stuff.

http://www.manoproducts.com/products.htm#gun

[Cacique500]

If you're really concerned about skin contact with solvents like Hoppe's, I suggest the following:

http://www.safetypro.us/products/handprotect.asp?tid=57

Not specifically from this vendor, but those are excellent gloves for solvents.

Just do a search on Ansell TNT Blue Nitrile glove.

[RTFM]

Thanks every one. See, some times you can read too much!

Now a question about Ammonia in the barrel(while I have your attention).
I have heard that the Ammonia though good for cleaning copper and lead, is not so good if left in the rifling of the barrel, precipitating the need to clean the Ammonia (Hoppe's #9 has Ammonia) from the barrel after the solvent (Hoppe's)
has been used. Or just using a good gun oil after the Hoppe's good enough to counteract the Ammonia?

Truth or Fiction?

Hoppe's #9
SECTION 4: HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
Ethyl Alcohol 64-17-5
Kerosene 8008-20-6
Trade Secret Ingredient(s)
Organic Ester Trade Secret
Ammonia, aqueous 7664-41-7
Remaining components are not hazardous and specific chemical identities are withheld as a trade secret under the provision
of OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200).

You know, it was ALLOT easier to clean before I started to care too much about what I was getting in to!:)

Keep running patches 'till they came out clean.
Done.

[Cacique500]

Patches? Eek...get a bore snake!! ;)

[NRA Instructor]

I've been using Hoppe's #9 for 56 years and I think by now that if there were any health problems associated with it they would have shown up by now. I assure you, I'm quite heathy, and my bride of 4 1/2 years would agree.
My first rifle is now 56 years old and has always had the standard #9 treatment, cleaning right after shooting and using patches, and it is still shooting 10 shot groups I can cover with a dime, so haven't had any barrel problems with using it.

[Chipperman]

IMO you have more to worry about with the lead residue than the solvents themselves.

Wash hands very well after cleaning guns, and never eat while cleaning them. :uhoh:

[Doc]

IMO you have more to worry about with the lead residue than the solvents themselves.



Yes, you are correct. solvents MAY be inhaled or absorbed, but are quickly metabolized by the liver and excreted in the bile. Non metabolized agents are excreted in the urine
or the lungs. Tho they enter quickly, they leave quickly as well.


Prolonged exposure to solvents could harm you, what that really means is
using volatile solvents without a hood or adequate ventilation day after day such as in a work setting like a lab (xylenes, benzene and toluene are such solvents which are tightly controlled and must be used in a hood). This concern would not apply to gun cleaning, especially if only done infrequently (say once weekly) and done in a well ventilated setting, (not a closet or the basement).

Lead is also easily absorbed across the skin. It is absorbed in much higher quantities by ingesting food with lead on it or by smoking it -- when you touch your food or cigarettes
with your hands after just shooting, reloading, smelting or POLICING BRASS!

Lead, unlike solvents, IS NOT cleared from the system EVER! Lead is stored and incorporated into biological tissues with results which make the above noted liver problems a walk in the park, because it is stored in the red blood cells, bone, DNA, proteins and BRAIN TISSUE! (Remember the "mad hatter" that was because of exposure to mercury, another heavy metal like lead which is easily absorbed and incorporated.)

Please, wear gloves when you police brass. Wear nitrile gloves and a respirator (with purple canisters for organics and organometalics) when you clean & smelt.

WASH YOUR HANDS AND FACE BEFORE YOU SMOKE OR EAT, please.

"I don't know nothing about shooting or fighting, but if it was me..."

Doc

[Standing Wolf]

I have a hunch there's no such thing as an effective cleaning chemical that's not harmful in one way or a dozen others if you drink it, breathe it, or bathe in it.

That said™, Hoppe's No. 9 makes a darned good after-shave lotion.

[HankB]

Julian Hatcher - author of the famous Hatcher's Notebook - had Hoppe's #9 analyzed, and came up with this "probable" composition:

Ammonium oleate 16%
Neutral saponifiable oil 24%
Nitro-benzine 6%
Light mineral oil (kerosene) and amyl acetate 54%

Apparently this analysis was done some 25 years prior to his Notebook publication, and Hatcher wrote that the composition may have changed. (His book was first published in 1947.)

I'm fairly sure that the Nitro-benzine was eliminated in the last 20 or 30 years.

Anyway, use #9 in a well-ventilated area, and health effects should not be a concern. (Of course, some are now worried about "dangerous" things like Big Macs and ice cream, so your worry threshold may vary. :rolleyes: )

[toxic_todd]

I work for a major chemical company and have drummed stuff that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand on end!! ( hence the nick name toxic_todd) Gloves and ventilation is a must. I also use my shooting goggles as an extra precaution. I have had co-workers that have been splashed in the eyes (everything worked out OK),but I like to error on the side of caution. Especially with something like the spray Gun Scrubber (methylene chloride). It is true that some chemicals leave the body, but the damage they do on the way out is what the main worry is. The exposure to a regular gun cleaning is VERY small and shouldn't ever be a problem.




MC (http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/M4420.htm)

[Doc]

HankB:

no more benzene or nitrobenzene in hoppes,
and they changed CLP about 10 years ago too
after that, no more 'banana' smell

still hoppe's #9 does make some mighty fine cologne:evil:

[Lord Grey Boots]

I use MPro7 (non toxic, no smell), because of the concern you raise.

[WhoKnowsWho]

Since there is such bad stuff in some of the chemicals... is it still okay to throw in the trash or do some of you use some other method?

I use Breakfree CLP more than MPro-7, but I do like the non-hazardous nature of MPr0-7 a lot. I don't worry about the home exposure too much, I am around a lot worse stuff and funny smells at work.