Why a 16ga?

[rbernie]

What does the 16ga do that a 12ga or 20ga doesn't?

[surfinUSA]

Carries like a 20 and hits like a 12.

[TAB]

I have oftend wonder why myself... I own 14 of them...

My feelings is its alittle more then 20 and less then a 12.

[kentucky_smith]

Carries like a 20 and hits like a 12.


Less shot string than a modern equal 20, with its' square load. My 16 gauge m12 is a great upland gun, almost carries as easy as my light 20 A5.

[mio]

it does nothing that a 12 or 20 wont. it just does everything better. :)

[TrapperReady]

it does nothing that a 12 or 20 wont. it just does everything better.


hy·per·bo·le Audio Help /haɪˈpɜrbəli/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hahy-pur-buh-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Rhetoric.
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

[Okiecruffler]

I does everything a 20 or 12 can do, but it does it with style.:cool:

[kentucky_smith]

Back in the day, the 12 was considered a market gun, the 16 was enough for waterfowl and a better all around choice.

[redneck2]

When I was a young'un, 16's were probably as popular as 12's. I suspect the wide variety of 12 gauge loads that started becoming available in the 60's and 70's did away with the "need" for the 16. Also, with the 3" 20 gauge, you could throw more shot from a smaller gun.

I still have the 16 single shot I got from my granddad. Killed a LOT of rabbits back on the farm. Trap loads in 5's or 6's.

[Tijeras_Slim]

They carry easily, shoot well, and are classy.

[axeman_g]

It shoots well in my hands.

[mikkeeh]

If 16's are so good....Why did they drop from popularity??
I thought I heard that one of the big gun mfgs. was going to re-introduce the 16 a couple of years ago....must not have happened huh?

[kentucky_smith]

Browning is selling 16 gauges in several iterations.

[Bud Tugly]

Back when you could use lead shot for waterfowl the 16 was the compromise gauge for the guy who wanted to do everything but could only afford one gun. Enough clout for ducks and geese but lighter to carry in the field than a 12. Lots of my hunting buddies back in the 60's carried a 16.

Heavier loads for the 20 gauge and lighter-weight 12's plus a wider range of loads have created more gauge overlap than the old days, so the niche of the 16 got blurred. They're still just right for lots of people, and it's a shame that the shells are fairly expensive and anything but a few common loadings are hard to find in most gun shops.

[Jim Watson]

Shoot an ounce of shot at standard velocity with black powder.

Black powder is less flexible than the wide range of nitro powders now available. There was not the wide variety of shot weights and muzzle velocities back then. If you wanted more lead in the air, you got a bigger bore. If you wanted a lighter gun to carry, you got a smaller bore.

As Bud says, progressive powders let the light 12 and the heavy 20 overlap into the 16's performance niche. But a few purists hang on, enough to keep some guns coming.

[MMCSRET]

I have seen new Remington 1100's in 16, also a lot of imports are now offered in 16 and 28.

[Kalashnikov]

Aren't Sagia's offered in 16 as well? If not they should be.

[PJR]

Two things seriously dimmed the success of the 16 gauge.

1) It is not one of the gauge categories in skeet shooting.

2) The emergence of the 3" 20 gauge.

A 16 gauge was the first shotgun I ever fired many moons ago. It was 30 years before I fired another so I'm not one of those guys who gets all misty-eyed and nostalgic over the 16 gauge. There's nothing wrong with the gauge but it is much harder to find shells, reloading components, presses, etc. than either the 12 or 20.

At best the 16 gauge is on life-support.

[dagger dog]

Whoever heard of a Sweet 12 or Sweet 20 ?

[Okiecruffler]

A sweet 20 is fine, a sweet 12 will get you 10-20.:neener:

Everyone speaks of the 3 inch 20ga as the demise of the 16. I've owned several 20ga's in various flavors, none of them have patterned 3 inch shells very well. And' purple is pretty.

[oneounceload]

Two things seriously dimmed the success of the 16 gauge.

1) It is not one of the gauge categories in skeet shooting.

2) The emergence of the 3" 20 gauge.

A 16 gauge was the first shotgun I ever fired many moons ago. It was 30 years before I fired another so I'm not one of those guys who gets all misty-eyed and nostalgic over the 16 gauge. There's nothing wrong with the gauge but it is much harder to find shells, reloading components, presses, etc. than either the 12 or 20.

At best the 16 gauge is on life-support.

at one point, the 16 WAS a skeet gauge...the 3" 20 patterns like dog doo compared to a 16..........the 3" 20 patterns like dog doo compared to MOST other choices......

[Okiecruffler]

The 16ga has been on life support for decades, someone doesn't want it to die. I firmly believe it's God.

[ArmedBear]

If 16's are so good....Why did they drop from popularity??

12s are lighter than they once were, and 20s are more versatile than they once were.

In the 16's heyday, 2 1/2" shells were all there were. 2 3/4" was the newfangled magnum back in the 1920s. The old double guns were heavy as all get-out in 12 (except for the really high-end ones), and 20 packed less punch than a 28 does today. So, a 16 was powerful enough for ducks and pheasants. 12 was too heavy, 20 was too limited.

All that changed, many years ago. Lead is illegal on ducks, 20 Gauge shoots 1 oz. loads just fine, and 12s don't all top 8 lbs. any more.

Jim Watson is right:
Shoot an ounce of shot at standard velocity with black powder.

I just bought a 16. It's 82 years old. I like it. However, I don't see much sense in buying a new 16, other than some European doubles maybe, if my budget someday allows.

Browning's guns offered in 16 tend to be overweight in 12. Both the BPS and the Citori weigh too much in 12. I'd rather not buy a Browning at all; Browning's obesity problem was solved by other companies decades ago. The old humpback Auto 5's were also beasts in 12; they were much nicer in 16. Again, it's been years since that mattered.

Remington briefly offered the 1100 in 16. Again, it's an overweight gun. Beretta's 12s usually weigh less than the Remington 20s.

In the modern world, there's little reason for a 16. And 3" 20s are irrelevant. 20 Gauge shoots 1 oz. loads quite well from 2 3/4" shells. Anything more than an ounce, shoots better in a 12 Gauge. There's no compelling reason not to get a modern, lightweight 12 Gauge instead of a 16.

When people talk about shot string, that's BS, too. If someone cared about shot string, they'd shoot 6/7 oz. in a 12, like International Trap shooters do. Take a look at the sizes of shot, bore sizes, and choke constrictions, and ask how much difference any of that makes -- especially considering that even the longest shot strings will pass over a bird in a couple milliseconds at worst.

But some of the old 16s are pretty neat.:)

[chas08]

At best the 16 gauge is on life-support.

Hmmmm...the two in my safe seem perfectly healthy. :D

I enjoy shooting all the standard gauges. The 16 was my Grandfathers gauge of choice, probably because he could only afford one shotgun. In his era there were more choicesof ammo to cover a broader spectrum, he used his for everything from doves to geese. Nowadays the ammo manufacturers offer such a limited selection, there is no incentive to consider a 16 ga. This handicaps the arms manufacturers because most folks are going to stay with whats popular at the moment, and what's easy to find any kind of ammo for. (we can build it, but they still won't come) As for an answer to your question ,"What does a 16 ga. do that a 12 ga. or 20 ga. doesn't?" Nothing...It just does it all with style and grace. :)

[ArmedBear]

Style and grace?

I just checked out a Franchi Renaissance Elite in 12. With 28" barrels, it weighs 6 1/4 lbs., and it's gorgeous. Prince of Wales grip, fancy walnut, engraved and inlaid. Balance is excellent.

Like I said, I like my old 16. But "style and grace" aren't something defined by a shell that's a few hundredths of an inch bigger or smaller.:)

[chas08]

Nor, IMHO, by weight, which seems to be a characteristic you measure all guns by.:D Beauty, style, and grace comes in all shapes and weights.:)

[ArmedBear]

Uh, you suggested "style and grace" had something to do with 16 Gauge...

Sure. Weight is a factor. Beauty, style and grace don't come in all shapes, or weights.

There's no such thing as grace in an upland field gun that weighs in over 8 lbs. The word grace has a meaning.

Balance, which is weight distribution, is an important aspect of grace, as well. And it's a reason for getting a 16 Gauge. It's just something with other solutions these days, when in the distant past, the 16 was sometimes the only option.

An Ithaca 5E is much heavier than 8 lbs., but has a lot of beauty, style and grace. It's a trap gun, of course.

16 Gauges aren't trap guns.

And Citoris utterly lack style and grace in 12 Gauge IMO. I doubt that anyone equates "bulky and heavy" with "style and grace" in a field gun. They lack the inner beauty of a Superposed, too.

So I would say that "style and grace" are not equal to, but are intimately linked with shape, size and weight. Purdeys aren't considered to be in a different class from Baikals just because the Purdeys have prettier wood.

That's not to say that a light gun is inherently better, more stylish or graceful. That Franchi, however, happens to be light, stylish and graceful, at least IMO.

And a gun might be a fine turkey gun, too, without any style or grace. These things apply to a certain subset of shotguns, generally. Hell, I really like the way a synthetic Cordoba shoulders, points, swings and shoots. Doesn't mean I'd hang it on my wall for people to look at...:)

Anyway, I don't care what someone else shoots, provided they keep the muzzle away from me. And I now own a 16 Gauge SxS, for that matter...

[dm1333]

I got so excited when I saw an old Stevens 311 on the shelf at a local store I didn't bother to check the gauge. I assumed it was a 20, turns out it was a 16.:o I'm a dummy for not checking, but $110 for the gun and $60 for a nice walnut stock and she sure does shoot nice! Every once in a while Dunhams puts some 16 gauge on sale and I'm in line buying as much as I can. The guns carries and swings so much nicer than my Mossy 500 that it has become my permanent grouse getter.

[ranger335v]

My first new gun was a Sweet 16, sans rib. In mid '63 our local Sears had a vast shelf of long arms that were open to the public to pick up and fondle. One day I tried maybe a couple dozen shotguns for fit and balance. Kept coming back to the Sweet 16 and finally took it home. Some folks said it kicked almost as hard as a 12 and killed little better than a 20. Why did the 16 die? Lots of reasons I suppose. It doesn't matter why individual hunters and shooters abandoned it, thing is almost all of us did and that killed it off.

I felt it was a fine field gun at the time and my ratio on doves got pretty good but ... some 10 years later, Weatherby came out with the Regency O/U 20/3" with virtually the same balance and feel. Soon traded my Browning for the 20 mag and it still sits in my gun safe, along side my late dad's old 12 ga. Reminton Md. 11, a licensed version of the Browning Auto-5. Do wish I could have afforded to keep the Browning 16, I miss it, but it really added nothing to what I could do with the 20 mag, so I just didn't see a need for it.

The 16 ga. guns eventually fell to lie beside the excellant but defunct .41 magnum. Sure, they still work but has anyone seen a .41 handgun lately?

[kentucky_smith]

Bing had good taste.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=78962&stc=1&d=1211851814

[axeman_g]

ya know... I never noticed that was Bing. He did have good taste.

[mavracer]

Grandpa Jack liked 16s and as sombody else said purple is pretty.2 good reasons.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/mavracer/1897.jpg

[Dave McCracken]

If I ever get another 16, it's almost a certainty it will have been made before WWII and be a SxS.

It's not just me that thinks a Fox 16 with 28" barrels is the best handling shotgun ever made.

And, as much as I like my 870s, a Model 12 in 16 and choked LM would gladden my heart.

And the sole purpose of either of these would be upland birds.

I have good waterfowlers, good defensive shotguns and a superb clays gun.

I even have a couple fine bird guns. But, either of those 16s would work for me.

[TrapperReady]

Dave - As I've posted before, my grouse gun is a 16ga Model 12, which has been bobbed to a 24" barrel and now has true cylinder choke. It's short-chambered, but handles great and is deadly for close-quarter grouse and woodcock.

The majority of the pheasants I shot last year were brought down with a 16ga Ithaca 37. Full choke, 2 3/4" chambers using Fiocchi's awesome Golden Pheasant shells. This particular gun is easy to carry, dead-nuts reliable and hits where I point it.

A Browning Sweet-16 is a great gun.

The newly manufactured stuff? For the most part, not so much.

[RX-178]

Why a 16ga?

The first answer that I can come up with is....


'Because I don't have one yet.' :D

[Dave McCracken]

Yeah, TR, I envy you both of those, especially the 12.

" Because I don't have one yet"...

RX, that one will always work around here.....

[ArmedBear]

If I ever get another 16, it's almost a certainty it will have been made before WWII and be a SxS.

It's not just me that thinks a Fox 16 with 28" barrels is the best handling shotgun ever made.

I haven't bought a gun like the former in several days.:D

Unfortunately, I didn't find the latter for a good price. The secret's definitely out. Not many "sleepers" around any more, or so it seems.:)

WRT Bing, pictures like that make me nostalgic and perhaps a bit sad. He hung around my neck of the woods, and that picture could have been taken within yards of where I sit, before all the buildings went in. Of course, I live in one of them, too...:) Now, we have to drive a ways to hunt birds, even if there are quail right here. Shooting a shotgun is frowned upon in residential areas these days, unfortunately.

[chas08]

'Because I don't have one yet.'

The most honest and straight forward answer in this thread yet.

My inherited 16 ga. Model 12 is my most prized shotgun. When I hunt with it I feel like my Grandfather is right beside me. You can't put a pricetag on that. :)

[ArmedBear]

You're doubly lucky.

A 16 Gauge Model 12 is an objectively great shotgun, regardless of provenance. And it was your grandfather's hunting gun.

Cool!

[goon]

The only advantage I see in the 16 gauge is that really nice guns still turn up in that gauge for not a lot of money. It's a great way for a guy who can't spend a lot of money to have a really sweet, old gun.

To me, it's not a practical choice for a new gun, but with the old guns I guess it does have a place.

[chas08]

And it was your grandfather's hunting gun.

It was his only shotgun. As many were in those days.

[Bud Tugly]

Back a generation or two it was mostly only fairly well-to-do folks who could afford two or more shotguns. Most of the people I hung around with in my younger days could only afford one.

You owned a 12 if you mostly hunted ducks and geese and a 20 if you mostly hunted upland game. The 16 was very popular since it gave you the ability to do both.

We must be a lot more affluent these days, since nearly everybody I know can easily afford to own multiple guns.

[Ridgerunner665]

I have an old 16 gauge single shot... its a Victor Special (betcha never heard of that one before).

Its basically a Sears and Roebuck brand...my Grandad bought it in 1941 (IIRC) for 50 cents.

It has the tightest factory full choke I have ever seen on any shotgun (the new "turkey chokes" not included).

I have put many, many, many rabbits, squirrels, grouse, and quail in the freezer with it.

Its nothing special...but I can post a pic if anybody is interested in seeing it.

[Dave McCracken]

Victor Special, made by Crescent Arms.

Yes I did hear of it before. Not much though....

[Ridgerunner665]

Yep....thats it...it also says Crescent Arms on it.

I figured some of you scattergun guys may have heard of it.

[barnetmill]

There are some combinations of gun weight, patterning, and load where a 16 ga is "better". There use to be and probably still are some very light short double barrel 16's that were set up for quail hunting. The "better" is subjective here, but it concerns what was extremely comfortable to shoot for a male human cerca 1920 or so. A friend showed one of these guns that he had inherited from his grandfather.
You could use a 20 for an even lighter gun, but you loose pattern effectiveness. Make the gun a 12 ga and it kicks a lot more.
In europe the 16 is more popular than here. The 12 ga is better if you use buckshot. I do not own a 16, 20 or a 10 ga, but do own 12, 28, and .410 shotguns.

[jlbpa]

yep granddad's gun.....

Maternal granddad remington 11-48 16 ga

Paternal granddad winchester model 12 16 ga.

[unspellable]

One of the things that hurt the 16 was manufacturers building them on 12 gauge frames. If you're going to carry a gun as big and heavy as a 12 it might as well have a 12 gauge hole in it. Another factor was the American tendency for bigger is better. We tend to overload any given gauge. The Brits regard 7/8 oz in a 2-1/2 inch 12 gauge as proper for what we call upland hunting. A 12 built for this load is a pretty light gun.

[Marshall]

I really like them.

I have a Sweet 16 and a SXS w/ 30" barrels. Both great guns.

Brownings new 16ga BPS is built on a 20ga receiver and is 7lbs. I handled one 2 weeks ago and plan on buying it in the next month.

[ArmedBear]

Or, instead of the BPS in 16, there's the similar but gorgeous Ithaca Ultralight 12 Gauge that weighs 6 1/2 and will shoot a much wider variety of shells... Hell, a 12 Gauge Wingmaster 26" weighs 7 lbs. and Beretta's 12 Gauge steel-frame field O/U's come in under 7 lbs.

I am tempted by these guns: http://www.doubleshotguns.com/ugarUC1.htm The 16 looks about perfect.

I like the old (vintage 1926) 16 I just bought, but I still think that modern manufacturing makes the 16 largely irrelevant in a new gun. I'm not talking about Browning's manufacturing techniques, of course... That's one reason I don't really look at Brownings much. Seems they build tanks, when I'm looking for a sports car, or at least a nice-handling sedan.

Wouldn't mind that tang safety, though...:)

[Marshall]

Yes, Ithaca does make a great gun. Expensive though. To some, 6-7 ounces one way or the other makes a lot of difference, I'm just not that way. I grew up shooting guns that weighed, and anything up to about 7.6 lbs is just fine for me. More importantly than weight is balance and fit. The same gun to two people may be completely different. I have some heavier guns that I shoot better than lighter ones so a few ounces of weight is not a major factor to me.

[ArmedBear]

Since you quoted the weight, I thought it was important to you.

To me, it depends on what I'm doing with the gun. If I just waltz into a field from a car at the edge of it, I don't much care. If I'm hiking around in the high desert mountains, I care a lot.:)

[1557]

My dad started me on quail with his 16 ga. Remington 870.He could get three birds on a covey rise with regularity. It was bought in the early fifties.
Quail and duck gun. Two barrels,a 26 in. improved cylinder and a 28 in. full choke. He always nailed it at turkey shoots with that full choke barel.
I still have it and it's almost mint in appearance.He took care of his stuff.
I put a lot of 2 1/2 in. number 7 1/2 and 8's through this one.
It handles like a dream. Good old Wingmaster.:)

[RNB65]

Tradition... Style... History.

There once was a time when the 16ga was the most popular shotty on the planet. Then the skeeting shooting crowd decided not to include it in registered skeet competitions and the trap shooting crowd decided that bigger is better and it's been dying a slow death for the past half century. I was hoping that Sporting Clays might give the 16ga a bit of a boost in popularity, but it didn't happen. However, there's enough old 16ga shotguns sitting in people's closets to keep the shells in production for a long time to come.

[oneounceload]

Skeet, at one time, did have the 16 as a part of the game, back when skeet was a 5 gauge game.....to the diehard fans, it is a great upland gauge. Personally, I find it a bit much for quail, especially over dogs, but it works well for pheasants.....is supposed to have that mystical "square" load.

IMO, what killed the 16 was when most companies started making them on 12 gauge frames - you were carrying a 12 without the 12's capabilities....

[tinygnat219]

There's nothing wrong with them, except ammo choices are fewer and further between.