I have read some cool threads on the NEF/H&R single-shot (Pardner and Topper respectively) shotguns, and wanted to ask a couple of questions.
Do both of these auto-eject the shell upon breaking?
What are some good brands of side-saddle/butt-sleeve?
Give me more good reasons to get one?
a) trap shooting
b) backup SD/HD gun
sm and others please give input?
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May 26, 2008, 02:28 PM
It's $120, tops, dead reliable, lightweight, and a shotgun. What other reasons do you need?
Some eject shells, most do in fact, but some models do not. Check out www.hr1871.com
May 26, 2008, 03:07 PM
I suggest 20 ga or smaller single shot shotguns due to Rule of 96 (weight of gun to payload recoil curve).
The one I keep handy is a H&R, Youth, 20 gauge, with the fixed modified choke, with the factory recoil pad.
Total length is 36" and the barrel itself is 22".
Mine ejects the spent hull.
I currently have a slip on elastic shell holder on the buttstock, made by Koplin.
I grew up with these, and in Youth size, as everyone had one like this.
These fit smaller folks in the home and bigger folks could use it too.
I have used mine to shoot skeet, hunt game from doves, quail, small game, ducks, deer and pest control.
Along with assisting new folks on shotguns, and taking it along on travels, and even when I just needed to babysit a house for someone.
- I want choke on a shotgun, so what I have is a bone stock youth shotgun, with choke, that is small, easy to tote, and easy to carry in a vehicle.
Which is better IMO/IME than cutting off a longer barrel, therefore losing choke and having a gun that looks, because it was "whacked" to make a "truck gun".
- Shooting off side with a butt cuff, will not allow one proper cheek wield, and it will cut you, and hurt you.
So, one must do some training and investigate what one really needs in regard to extra shells, like a butt cuff.
These slip on elastic shell holders, will move around with recoil and handling.
a. Use electrical tape to keep in place.
Electrical tape holds up real well, sticks well, easy to remove, and less likely to hurt a finish.
I just get the shell holder in place, and between the first two, and last two shell holders, place the tape and wrap. It does not take much tape.
I have inserted the tape through a shell holder, most times the reason is, these slip ons, being elastic, after some use, and being exposed to sun break down.
Just getting the last bit of use out of one until it needs thrown away.
b. Do not tape in place.
Mine currently is not, nor are the ones I introduce new shooters with , or assist them with.
i. I am old school, and all about correct basic fundamentals, such as gun fit.
I don't want a shell holder on a single shot, or any shell holder on any gun with a new person.
It changes balance of the gun, it distracts a shooter with something else on the gun.
ii. A person may be left handed, so me being right handed, or the guns I used being owned by right handed folks, means that gun is not going to work with a left handed person, or one doing weak hand lessons.
The folks will know I have their safety in mind, I and mine make sure of this.
We explain all of this to them.
Just hand them a cuff, off the gun, with shells and have them place onto their cheek.
It is that obvious gun fit is affected and recoil will hurt.
iii. Belt shell holder, such as used by Cowboy action shooters, are a great option.
If deer season for instance coincides with a small game or upland game season, slugs on the belt compliment the loads for game, no matter if using a shell vest, shell pouch, shells in a jacket pocket, or a butt cuff.
I often just slip slugs on a belt, have the butt cuff with pellet loads and walk property.
I can transition loads, very easy, and know, where the slugs are if need.
At home, I leave mine slip on only as I can "roll" it to the other side, yank it off and slip over strong or weak side arm, or slip it onto my belt...
I share shooting these, just like dangerous game hunters shoot a double rifle, meaning I have a shell in weak hand fingers, fire gun, eject, slip that shell into chamber and fire again.
Once I load that gun, if I do not have a need to shoot again , I snag another shell and have one in weak hand fingers.
This is how I shoot regular skeet, and hunt and get the second shot off fast, by keeping the second shell in weak hand fingers.
Serious situation, I do this too, If I have to shoot three, I have options as to where I get additional shells, belt, or from butt cuff.
Serious use, I only use slugs.
Another reason why mine is not fastened with tape.
If I do travel, and stay in a motel, I can change cuffs and use #3 buckshot in that hotel/motel room.
I mark my cuffs, slug or #3 buckshot, for me, if marked, it means buckshot, if not, slugs.
I have to break this down to simple, just me, and how raised.
I'll stop here to allow you mull this over, feel free to ask more questions.
May 26, 2008, 03:30 PM
THANKS! Man, I really follow your stuff avidly. I think you ought to have a blog. Then again, that would deprive some THR readers of your spot-on advice.
I really appreciate the advice a lot. I may think of some more questions, but I am currently wondering...you said you like the 20 ga "Junior" model, which I am eying as well. You also mentioned once that "20 ga is the preferred all-around use for serious stuff as well as deer hunting." I'm wondering, why 20 ga? I gave my dad a 20 ga Mossy 500 for his b-day, so I was going to get a 20ga anyway so we could shoot together easier, but why exactly do you prefer 20 over 12 for your own use? Is it because of the rule of 96 or are there other reasons too?
Also--rule of 96...let's see if I am getting this. There is an optimal balance of recoil vs power, and 20 ga is it?
May 26, 2008, 04:39 PM
Rule of 96
A shotgun should weigh 96x the weight of the shot payload for best handling, power vs recoil, etc.
1oz of shot, 96oz gun, 6lbs.
1-3/4oz of shot, 10.5lbs.
Single shot 12s weigh about 6lbs. Ouchie...
Gun fit is a big factor too. If the gun fits poorly and doesn't feel natural in the hands the felt recoil will be worse, in most cases. My BPS 10ga. is heavy, and it fits me well in general, but the balance is awkward (barrel heavy) and so if I botch mounting the gun it hurts. A lot.
I am a big fan of the single shot shotgun, as these were what I grew up with. What's that again, sm? "How raised, what you do..?"
You're never too old to try single shot shotguns. Just be smart about it.
May 26, 2008, 04:55 PM
In a milieu of tactical magnum long-range hi-cap black weatherproof precision milled 1-in-8 3/4" twist etc etc guns, I think I have a desire for something simple and fun. I think the SS H&R will really fulfill that need, and allow me to learn and relearn the fundamentals.
May 26, 2008, 09:47 PM
gp911, could you clarify what you mean by "be smart?" Never hurts to ask just to be sure :)
May 26, 2008, 10:55 PM
The minimalist's shotgun. Nothing can be subtracted and still be a shotgun.
Light, great for toting where a shot or two may be fired.
Fun. A great way to unleash the small child that still dwells within.
Did I mention fun?....
May 27, 2008, 12:16 AM
Dave, I was already going to get one...but I can't for a little while...WHY DID YOU HAVE TO MAKE ME WANT ONE EVEN MORE?!
Oh yeah. That was what I asked for in the first post. :D
May 27, 2008, 12:18 AM
Another thing. If you are training a young bird dog, you want to only shoot one shot per covey of quail or flight of doves. If you are only going to be shooting one shot anyway, why carry a repeater or double barrel? Just extra weight you aren't using, or you may regret it.
Have learned this the hard way -- if you're only going to shoot one shot, only load one. You may get lost in the moment and hit that second trigger before your brain catches up with the fact that you instinctively want that second bird, or missed in the first place.
Just sayin'. Get a single-shot. It's for the baby dogs!!
May 27, 2008, 12:25 AM
Be smart = don't try to pattern 3" 12 gauge slugs in a 6lb gun right away... Try the smaller guns first, as many of them are sweethearts, see 28 gauge for example. Try a 20 with lighter loads, etc. Don't just get a light 12 and start throwing heavy payloads as you'll just get irritated.
My 2 cents...
May 27, 2008, 01:16 AM
Oh, the other thing? If you're so inclined, they can be VERY extensively modified....
Hm, I see it just fine, it's hosted here on THR...
May 27, 2008, 02:47 AM
Got a few questions about the H&R Topper Junior Classic.
I understand that it's possible to get a second barrel for it in another gauge so that a 20 gauge can also be used to shoot 12 gauge. Is that true?
If so, can the owner switch barrels back and forth so that it's possible to shoot both 20 gauge and 12 gauge from the same gun?
May 27, 2008, 03:47 AM
Hairless, you malingerer, you already had your own Topper thread.
Just kidding. Have you bought one yet?
I can't decide between the Topper Jr Classic and the Topper Jr. The Jr Classic looks so old-school...but the Jr is slick.
May 27, 2008, 04:55 AM
I'm more a lingerer than a malinger, I think. :)
I did buy one at last. It's even more fun than I'd anticipated. I was surprised to see that it can be reloaded fairly quickly. And accurate, very. As for your reliability criterion: absolutely. Built nicely too. And handsome. Now I'm curious about the different gauges.
May 27, 2008, 04:57 AM
This thread reminds me... my 28ga (thanks again Steve!) should be coming in within the next few days.
May 27, 2008, 05:29 AM
Look around for a used one - I just got one. It started out around $60 but wound up at $92 out the door at the local shop with some ammo.
I suggest 20 gauge. You get most of the power and versatility of the 12 gauge and good load selection. The recoil is also less than a 12 gauge so you can practice more without getting the hell beat out of you.
IIRC, H&R will fit a second shotgun barrel to your shotgun. After that's done, you can switch back and forth between them.
FYI, for hunting I've never noticed the difference between a single shot and a pump. I found that if I could shoot 3 shots from a pump at a squirrel, I often did, regardless of whether the squirrel really needed shot three times or not.
Effective, but not at all economical. ;)
With the single barrels, you get a sweet handling gun that just does what needs done with no BS.
What's not to love?
For defensive use, I've started to drift away from shotguns altogether in favor of handguns and rifles. Not to say shotguns aren't a good, effective choice - they're just not the choice for what I want to be able to do. But I'd imagine a load of 20 gauge No.3 buck will do as well at stopping a threat as anything else could. And a single shot isn't really that slow to reload as long as it's not a .410. A .410 shell is just too hard to get in the chamber by feel but a 20 or 12 gauge shell practically guides itself in.
As for reliability, there isn't really much to break. There are only a handful of moving parts. I think it was Dave McCracken who said that they're basically as simple as you can get and still have a gun. IMO, simple usually = reliable. At the very least, I've never heard of any problems with them.
Fun? Of course they are as long as you don't go sticking full power 12 gauge buck or slugs in one. But with "regular" loads, even the 12 gauges aren't at all punishing to shoot. I'd still advocate the 20 gauge over a 12 gauge though. Sure, the 12 is more versatile on paper because you can stick a load of 3" 15 pellet 00 in it. But if you're anything like me, you'll only want to do that maybe once or twice a year, literally.
A five round box of slugs should last you seven years if you're using them correctly out of a single shot NEF 12 gauge. My 20 gauge is much more user friendly with "serious" shotgun loads.
May 27, 2008, 10:23 AM
Conwict, I deny wrongdoing. Blame Steve.
A couple things....
There's lots of used H&R/NEFs out there. I'd skip anything made before WWI because of short chambers and soft receivers but other wise you're OK.
If I were getting a multibarrel NEF setup, I'd buy a rifle and get shotgun barrels fitted. NEF will do this, but not rifle barrels on a shotgun receiver. Heat treating's different.
BTW, a 22 Hornet or 22 Mag barrel with a decent scope is a great varmint gun out to 100 yards plus.
A 30-30 barrel with a low power scope makes a good deer and coyote gun.
The downside to the NEF platform is the trigger is oft as heavy as the weight of the shotgun. One can spend as much on a trigger job as for the gun. Still a good idea, though.
While some folks like to bob the barrels on these, that makes a very light gun even lighter and hard to use. A longer barrel is easier to keep swinging when wingshooting and is steadier when aiming.
May 27, 2008, 11:08 AM
I'm a big H&R fan, too, and I have pointed out before that now that Remingon has bought Marlin which owns H&R, get your Handi Rifles while the getting is good. They have announced the closure of the Gardner, MA plant, and while they say they will keep making them elsewhere, Remington already has the Russian-made Spartan line of single shots....
Again, I have said before that a single shot can be a beautiful gun as well. Some of the youth models were available with case-colored receivers, and the wood-and-blue ones look perfect with some leather ammo storage (cuff, wallet, etc.) on the stock. Personally, I like the Pardner Compact (http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/pardnerYouth.aspx) in .410 because of the straight grip stock. With 3" 00 buck shells (5 pellets end to end) it would even be handy for home defense.
PS--If the description on the Buds Gun Shop site is accurate, the .410 and 20 gauge models are still available with the color case receivers (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/advanced_cat_search.php?cated=48&manufacturers_id=7&ITATR_list%5B2%5D=&ITATR_list%5B3%5D=&ITATR_list%5B6%5D=3574&ITATR_list%5B7%5D=&ITATR_list%5B0%5D=18410), hard butt plate on the .410, recoil pad on the .20, either for $135 delivered to your local FFL.
May 27, 2008, 11:59 AM
While it is true that they plan to close the Gardner plant and that Remington already has the Spartan single-shots, it is my understanding that HR1871 has been a profit leader for Marlin. It would make sense, and maybe I am just hoping, to keep a profitable division still going. The Spartan single-shots are really quite different with a different opening mechanism and they don't offer near the selection that HR/NEF does. Additionally, while I will buy a foreign-made gun if that is the only or clearly the best option, I see no reason to buy a foreign-made single-shot, either Rossi, Magtech, or Baikal, when the classic H&R single shot is so good and still available. No brainer for me. Cerberus' business plan has been to attempt to enhance profitable lines and diminish unprofitable ones. Since HR/NEF has been profitable, I am hoping they will keep it. It does make sense to consolidate production and I am sure there is plenty of unused manufacturing capacity at other locations. Maybe that's wishful thinking as there are a couple of them I would like to get. I do have a small concern about buying one that was made between the time the workers found out they are losing their jobs and the actual closing of the plant. There could be some low morale in Gardner as this year progresses. (Hope not, but it seems possible.) I would like either a Topper Deluxe Classic or Topper Deluxe. I did buy one of the synthetic-stocked, choke-tubed models from Walmart but find that, for me, the wood stocks seem to fit better. Could be that as I get older I might wish I had gone the 20 gauge route, though, LOL. One thing for sure, the 10 gauge is NOT on my radar screen :).
May 27, 2008, 12:28 PM
Owlnmole, what's a color case receiver exactly?
goon, what do you mean "what you want to be able to do?" I'm just curious.
Dave, thanks. I'm curious, once you get the barrel fitted it's just a matter of switching them out at will? I've always been curious why H&R doesn't just sell packages...(or do they?)
May 27, 2008, 02:54 PM
Conwict, NEF/H&R has offered duos like 357 Mag and 20 gauge in the past. I've no idea if they do now or plan to do so.
Swapping out the barrels, which have to be fitted to the receiver is simple.
After ensuring the weapon is empty, unscrew the big screw in the forend. Remove the forend and hit the opening latch. Pull the barrels down until one can remove them.
New barrels need new forends. Install in reverse order.
May 27, 2008, 02:57 PM
Conwict - I have a huge amount of respect for shotguns in general.
A few years ago I bought an 18" Mossberg 12 gauge for $149. It was in excellent shape and I needed a "disposable" defense gun for my first apartment. The Mossberg served me well for that. I also found that it shoots slugs just about like a rifle out to around 70 yards. My brother even managed to break a few clay pigeons laying on the bank with slugs out of it from 100 yards.
Having said that, I've been thinking lately. The stuff I've read indicates that even buckshot will potentially overpenetrate. That's just as dangerous as a rifle or handgun, and what's worse is that there are going to be anywhere from 9 to 15 pellets spreading out. That means there is even more chance of an innocent getting hit with a shotgun in play.
A rifle also has greater accuracy if you need to take a more precise shot. And it could at least double the range of a shotgun while still being just about as effective at contact distance.
As I said, I have a huge respect for the shotgun as a defensive weapon, but for my uses the combination of a handgun and a good rifle would just serve me better.
BTW - I think NEF does sell packages.
May 27, 2008, 03:14 PM
Youth or Adult?
Youth allows me, and others to travel with a shotgun easier.
I can stick one in a garment bag, and nobody knows I have a shotgun going to a hotel or motel room.
Travel is something I, and others are familiar with, and I and mine traveled with shotguns often.
One gun I traveled with , was a bone stock Ithaca 37 with the 20 inch bbl.
Awerbuck travels with a double barrel shotgun.
This is easy to tote, and travel with. It is more people friendly, political climate friendly, and gun law friendly.
In some jurisdictions, breaking this gun down, as it is easy to do, is what is required to be legal in some parts of the country.
Single shot affords one the same features and benefits.
Go get a yard stick.
My H&R Youth 20 ga Single Shot, again is 36" total length.
The barrel is a fixed modified 22" , plain, with a single bead.
I am 6', and I can stand, hold that shotgun down by my side, and you cannot see I have a shotgun.
The muzzle does not touch the floor, and my hand and arm look natural ...I could be holding a pair of scissors for all anyone knows, and being safe and polite by having them in a safe hold...
I can use either hand, and have part of me concealed by a door facing, chair, sofa, kitchen breakfast bar...
I can even answer the door with this gun in hand.
UPS comes after dark, I have gun in hand, I see it is UPS and I have signed for a package with strong hand, with shotgun in weak, and the door concealing this.
If, "just a second" , I can set this behind the door, and sign and receive package.
"Caught you dust mopping the hardwood floor huh?" is exactly what UPS said when I set this shotgun behind the door.
It gets dark earlier in the winter...
He/she have delivered a package and I was using a dust mop for the hardwood floor near front door.
Perceptions...come into play, I post about perceptions...
Nobody is expected, and I am standing with a youth shotgun in hand , off to the side using a door frame to conceal and one of the ladies I know answers her door.
All hell breaks loose.
Criminals forces themselves , he shoots, she shoots her CCW.
That youth can be handed to 11 year old to watch that criminal, while attend to the mom shot.
I know, we practice this.
That 11 year old can hold that shotgun, call 911 and allow me to attend to that mom.
I might need to hold the gun and dial...
I am the one shot, the mom is attending to me...
In a chair, especially a recliner, that shotgun fits, and when I reach down for the lever, to let myself up...
I can come up with this Youth and shoot if need be.
Again, a practiced thing me and mine do.
Adult size is fine, I use these too.
If one is going to do a lot of shooting, get the adult.
Just sharing some reasons why many do get the Youth, and yes, I am to blame.
I want choke.
I have to repeat this, I want choke!
This is where I get ticked with folks taking a hack-saw to cut down a shotgun barrel, to make a "truck gun".
I want choke! My gun, and others like it pattern some of the best patterns I have patterned with pellet loads, #3 buck, and slugs.
My gun is a bone stock "kids" or "youth" shotgun.
Other folks have one because of me, and here is one real use.
19 year old daughter has one, she is attending college away from home.
She has a few gals she and parents know real well, and has hunted with it (doves, and small game) and had a lot of fun as broke college kids when these friends of the family get the portable clay thrower out and have the girls shoot, and have a picnic and ...relieves stress, fun.
She was back home, her dad had her car attended to by the dealer for some warranty work.
This car got to acting up on the way back to college, and she pulled into a hotel.
Called her dad, dad said since it was dark, to use the credit card he and mom gave her for emergencies and get a room.
She cannot get a CCW being under age 21.
She had a shotgun.
It was around 10pm when this happened, the options were discussed and she ended up having one of the other parents, being she was nearer to them, come down and get her.
Still she was safe, and the dealer was called at home and he had that car towed to another dealer in the next town.
Still for some hours, this 19 y/o lady was safe, the shotgun was just one of the tools, not the tool.
May 27, 2008, 04:30 PM
The youth model is a great general purpose gun IMO.
First off, I agree with sm about the choke.
Come on People!
You can get a youth model 20 gauge for $69 so why would you buy a full length 20 gauge for the same price and then pay a gunsmith $25 more to cut the barrel off and remove the choke?That is sheer stupidity.
I just did some work with my 20 gauge and slugs - finally got slugs hitting point of aim. Shot loads put the center of the pattern about 5" high at 25 or so yards but that's not a big deal. This is why you have to pattern a shotgun. You lose too much by just pointing them in the general direction and hoping for the best.
Mine doesn't like the buck I've tried in it but I've only tested one load. I'll probably find something it likes.
If not, slugs work fine for defense too.
I've also found like sm that you can put the buttpad in your arm pit and hold the muzzle down and the gun will just about disappear. The light weight makes them extremely handy and quick pointing indoors and as I said before, reloading isn't as slow as you would think.
I grew up in the country. When there was a threat from an animal, you didn't call animal control because there wasn't one. You just dealt with it.
One time I was tasked with eliminating a diseased, feral cat that had been trying to fight my German Shepard for her food.
I was about 13 and inexperienced at how animals react when they're shot, about how they often kick, jump, and run even when they're already dead but just don't know it yet. My first shot did the dirty work but I panicked when I saw the cat try to jump up.
Long story short, I was terrified of having a wounded animal escape and die a painful death. I had six rounds of 12 gauge 2.75" No.6 shot and I used them all in extremely rapid succession.
My dad later asked me if I knew who had been shooting a pump action up on the hill behind our house. He initially didn't believe me when I told him that he'd actually heard me shooting his single barrel. Remember, the gun I was using required me to put it on half cock to open the action, then pull the shell out of the breech.
Lay your hands on a single barrel and try seeing how fast you can put lead on target with one, then you'll believe me.
May 27, 2008, 04:33 PM
sm, thanks! You tell a good story (I know it's true, but you know what I mean). I think I am going to go with the youth. It may even end up in my trunk.
May 27, 2008, 05:04 PM
I got my '70s-vintage H&R Topper in a trade for a Rob Zombie CD and $20 :cool:
May 27, 2008, 05:19 PM
$20 and a Rob Zombie CD?
You made out like gangbusters.....
May 27, 2008, 06:40 PM
I thank you for your posts!
I have stepped out of door, with a kid screaming with fear in the voice, tears streaming down cheeks and running toward me for safety.
Rabid dawg in the yard, attacking that new puppy, that died from injuries.
There was no 911, the hard wired phone was part of party line, meaning one did not have their own phone line, instead shared one.
This is a serious threat! The child was not hurt, bless her heart, she was old enough to know, having been raised such, to run to safety, and it broke her heart to see her new puppy attacked, and the life lessons seeing what happened, and having to bury that puppy.
Same kid knew there was a single shot behind doors, not just at her house, other houses too.
If she needed something and that gun was in her way, she got a older person to help.
She had a wood stock only from a rifle she was learning how to stand, hold, be safe with , and correctly mount gun to face.
Later a single shot, her size, let her do so with a shotgun...
She would do her repetitions with adults doing various shotgun lessons.
I don't care what Brady or any other Gun Control organization says.
I don't care what some parents, or adults think, not even those that teach and instruct some gun lessons, as I do not agree with their take on kids and guns, and we are supposed to be on the same side.
Being blunt, I have been there and done that, and sometimes before these types were born.
Single shots fill so many niches...serious niches.
May 27, 2008, 07:03 PM
See how fast one can get two shots off with a single shot?
May 27, 2008, 07:08 PM
Back in the day, triggers were "better" to "great" on firearms right of the box.
Single shot shotguns had better triggers back in the day as well.
Time passes and between mfg lawyers, insurance, and simply not taking the time to do a smoother trigger, triggers need attention often times today.
Single shots included.
First off - DO NOT take one of these apart!
Qualified gun smiths, with the correct tools "can" have a fit, as these guns were built tough, and not expected to be gotten into.
So punching pins, means pins might not come as one thinks, or go back without some smithing needing done.
Old Trick on Single shots.
I like Semichrome by Happich as I grew up with it.
Flitz will work....
Just squirt this down into the action, insert a snap cap, or dummy shell and just dry fire the gun.
Polishing...again...polishing is all we are doing.
We are not removing metal, just polishing what needs polishing to smooth up.
No Semichrome, or Flitz? No problem.
Gun oil, even 3in1, or Singer's Sewing machine oil is fine.
Just mix this with some gun powder, residue from reloading set up , ashes from ashtray, floor sweeps...all we want is a "slurry" that will polish.
After a bit, the trigger, and action in thumbing hammer, and thumbing action open is "polished" , one can feel the difference.
Clean this out, real good, then lightly lube properly and the trigger, along with the hammer and opening "button" will be smoother.
Back in the day , we did not have all the products , including aerosol sprays we have today, like brake cleaner and gun scrubbers...
What we did, still works today and some folks still do.
Remove wood from metal.
Let the receiver, just soak in mineral spirits, or kerosene.
Low odor mineral spirits is not expensive compared to most things and used outside is best.
Let soak, use pipe cleaners old toothbrush (get a baby and child's size along with adult size) and wooden dowels with cloth scraps, hit with a air hose and clean all the slurry out.
This is one way to smooth action, there are other ways.
Just I still do the polish to smooth this way.
Later I will post again what I and some others do to get these guns prepped.
Nothing difficult, nothing hi-tech, or real expensive, just proven.
Note: I am really particular on Firing Pins and I don't apply a lot of slurry to this area.
I always make sure the Firing pin and hole is clean!
I will use lighter fluid to flush this.
In really cold weather, I flush firing pin and keep clean with lighter fluid.
Reason being, I do not want to take a chance on a a firing pin freezing due to water, or any lube being too thick.
May 27, 2008, 07:22 PM
Later I will post again what I and some others do to get these guns prepped.
"Sooner" would be great too :)
Unless you mean you are going to repost the same info for posterity.
I'm all ears! :D
May 27, 2008, 08:35 PM
$20 and a Rob Zombie CD?
You made out like gangbusters.....
I know :cool:
After his step-dad died, my liberal, anti-gun buddy would accept almost any offer to get rid of his icky, evil firearms. He was afraid to handle the guns as if they were rattlesnakes, or like he was handling nitroglycerin. LoL
I plan on getting one of these new Handi-Rifles in .500 S&W Magnum, and later getting different caliber barrels fitted up. [.30-30, .44 Mag, .444 Marlin, .45-70]
* I want a Handi-Rifle offering chambered in 7.62x54R to take advantage of the cheap combloc surplus commonly available*
.30-'06 power in a rimmed case
ETA - .460 S&W Magnum would make a most excellent Handi-Rifle chambering as well.
May 27, 2008, 08:39 PM
Hold on! This here just one route, not the route... - Bootlegger
You will need:
Bob Seger and The Silver Bullet Band - Live Bullet
Allman's Brothers at the Fillmore East
Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon
Outlaws: Willie, Waylon and Tom Paul...
Buddy Guy, Bonnie Raitt, Stevie Ray Vaughn
Eagles: Seven Bridges Road, Smuggler's Blues,
Robert Johnson : Crossroads
Jerry Jeff Walker: Pissing in the Wind
Animals : House of the Rising Sun
Grand Funk Railroad: We're an American Band.
Janis Joplin: Me & Bobby McGee
James Taylor : Fire & Rain, Steamroller Baby ( the long uncut, dirty version)
Country Joe & The Fish
Hank Williams Sr, and Hank Williams Jr.
Southern Belle's Get Down and Rowdy Roadhouse Biker Bar and Salute to Bootlegger Live Recording on 8 track at Where in the hell are we Texas!
(this one might be hard to come by...
all biker babes in the band, behind the cage, and Bootlegger was sitting on a Harley with a single shot shotgun handy in da cage)
Next: Bootlegger's Shotgun Prep
May 27, 2008, 09:32 PM
Ya'll can walk down and count pellets on that fancy paper to pattern your gun if'n ya want, my deal is , I done hit my Gulf quart oil cans, and one Falstaff beer can with 20 ga slugs and knowed I am good to go... - Bootlegger
-Remove barrel from action; set aside the barrel, forearm, forearm screw.
-Long screwdriver that fits stock bolt and PVC tube, Plastic tube, even cardboard tube to protect stock.
If you get into a hurry, and get that screwdriver blade caught in the wood, and force it, you will gouge/crack/ weaken that critical area, and it will split the wood upon being fired.
IF your gun uses a bolt, the same caution applies using a socket
-Remove butt-stock from reciever, stock bolt and pay attention to how any washers, are supposed to go.
Write it down, draw it out, just do it!
It is important to put back correctly.
-Remove butt plate / recoil pad.
Use soap, silicone or something to make it easier to insert the correct Phillips screwdriver into recoil pad, which also allows the holes in pad to close up , or prevent being opened up more than orginally.
-Johnson's Paste Wax, in the yellow can is applied to the wood.
Inside stock bolt hole, receiver, ends...forearm hole for barrel screw...
This seals the wood.
So apply real good, let dry, buff and apply again, repeat.
Easiest way to clean a shotgun chamber is with with wisps of the finest grit of Scotch Brite pad around a cleaning brush, of which the rod is chucked into a cordless drill.
Chamber is the most important part of that barrel.
Now run that brush on down the bore, this is the fastest way to clean a shotgun bore.
Run a bore mop, or patches down bore to remove any residue.
Note: 0000 [4 aught] Steel wool can be used.
You must make sure you do not leave any Steel residue, steel will rust.
Now apply Johnson's Paste Wax to the exterior of barrel.
Multiple coats, buffing between coats.
Use a dark cloth to prevent any lint showing, or, that pair of panty hose you stole from the wife/gf...
Sigh: RIG [Rust Inhibiting Grease] distributed by Silenco for years, was under the Jackson Mfg company of recent years.
It is my understanding, RIG is not being listed anymore, or is RIG +P.
RIG is what I applied to stock bolt, washers, fore arm screw and RIG +P to hinge pin.
RIG is a old proven product that protects, and RIP+P a proven high pressure grease for areas such as hinge pins.
If you have RIG products, or can still get some from somewhere, get it.
STOS [slicker than owl stuff] distributed by Ponsess Warren is good.
Lithium Grease works just fine as well.
The gun is clean, lubed correctly and put back together.
Johnson's Paste Wax is again applied, to the whole gun assembled, buff, reapply, repeat.
This seals the gun, inside and out.
Some other tricks if'n ya want...
May 27, 2008, 09:35 PM
I've also used Renaissance wax to good effect, though it's more expensive then Johnson's.
If you follow the steps Steve has laid out, you will be hard pressed to ever find rust or rotten wood on your gun.
May 28, 2008, 02:17 AM
Steve, awesome dude! Keep it up. If you have more, I'm listening!
(You can talk about Shotgun S&T, cleaning, sentimental value, or How Raised...your choice! :D)
May 28, 2008, 04:55 AM
Owlnmole, what's a color case receiver exactly?
I have no idea what the process is, but the effect of a color case is to provide a slight rainbow effect like oil on water.
H&R now shows the Pardner Compact with a blued receiver, so despite the Buds Gun Shop description it may not be available (they may have forgotten to change the text).
The H&R Buffalo Classic series rifles (http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.aspx) definitely do have color case receivers and crescent buttplates, see that page for pics.
Off topic -- I am currently overseas, but I may have my grandfather pick up one of those CR-45LC carbines for me just in case that model doesn't survive the closing of the Gardner plant. With the right load, that should make a fine rifle for everything from plinking to deer hunting, and besides, I really want one, and that's reason enough. :D
May 28, 2008, 04:59 AM
Color case hardening is the process of adding carbon to the steel or iron that the receiver is made of. Basically, the receiver is heated, rolled in carbon containing material (bone ash, Kasenite, cyanide, etc.) and heated again.
Note that current receivers from H&R/NEF are not case color hardened for actual hardening, as they are cast receivers, but done just for aesthetic purposes.
May 29, 2008, 12:49 PM
Using a single-shot is a great way to instill discipline in a young or inexperienced hunter. Knowing you only have one shot forces concentration and focus.
The shortness and lightness of single-shot guns also is a huge plus for carrying all day, especially in rugged terrain or heavy cover. Not the best choice where multiple shots are common, but a very simple, basic, and inexpensive way to get into shotgunning.
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