replacement powder


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aussie_shooter
May 27, 2008, 05:33 AM
i am almost out of all the win 748 i have and have not been able to get any
more for about 8-9 months now here in australia.
is there something elce i can try that is verry simler by some other brand i can try
i load for 22-250 and 204 only and like the win 748 as it is great in both so i only need the one powder.
but just cant get the amount i go through.

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NuJudge
May 27, 2008, 07:46 AM
Look for something with a similar burn rate, then start way low and work up:

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

http://stevespages.com/table3.html

http://www.gswagner.com/bigreloading/components/powderburnrate.html

scrat
May 27, 2008, 11:15 AM
I use W748 in my 30-30. Best powder i found close enough to it is H4895. This powder is really good stuff.

dirtman
May 27, 2008, 12:08 PM
Is the shortage caused by supply problems or new gumment regulation. Up here in the frozen north land (kanada) we are having problems getting various gun components mostly do to new U. S. & canadian regulations with regard 911.... Hard as hell to get brass from the U.S. now.... to many hoops... and most folks that used to deal in fire arms & components are giving up on all the red tape....
Question to you.... Just how bad are your gun control laws getting down under?

ForneyRider
May 27, 2008, 04:08 PM
I think BL-C(2) is the same as W748.

Like W231 and HP38.
Like W296 and H110.

rcmodel
May 27, 2008, 04:33 PM
BL-C2 and WW-748 are not the same powder.

In the .223 for instance, WW-748 will give about 400 FPS higher velocity then BL-C2 with 52 grain bullets and 1 more grain of powder.

I would look at Varget, or IMR-3031, or IMR-4895 to give similar performance, but not similar charge weights.

rcmodel

Ridgerunner665
May 27, 2008, 04:35 PM
BL-C2 is a slightly slower powder than Win 748...it works GREAT (better than Win 746) with heavier (60 - 75 grain) bullets.

depoloni
May 27, 2008, 04:52 PM
From the list they have at Ramshot's reloading data site:

85. Alliant RL7
86. IMR 3031
87. Hodgdon Benchmark
88. Norma N201
89. Scot Brig 322
90. Hodgdon H322
91. Ramshot X-Terminator
92. Accurate 2230
93. Winchester 748
94. Alliant RL10X
95. Hodgdon BLC-2
96. Accurate 2460
97. Hodgdon H335
98. Ramshot TAC
99. Hodgdon H4895
100. Accurate XMR 2495
101. Alliant RL12
102. IMR 4895

Based on that list, it would appear the closest burn rates would be X-Terminator or Accurate's 2230 on the one side and Reloader 10X and BLC-2 on the other.

I use H4895 and H335 both, in 30-30 and 8x57 Mauser, and both have served me extremely well for their particular loads. If available I'd also highly recommend either of these too.

Ridgerunner665
May 27, 2008, 04:56 PM
Reloder 10x is an EXCELLENT powder for light bullets...I have NEVER used a more consistent powder.

It should work well with your 22-250...give it a try, it meters fairly well too.

I tried it in my AR 15...as I said it was extremely consistent in both velocity and accuracy...but it short stroked my AR 15 with 60 grain bullets....its just too fast burning for what I wanted.

rcmodel
May 27, 2008, 05:01 PM
Burn rate chart from Hornady #6.

85. AA 2520
86. AA 4064
87. IMR 4320
88. WW-748
89. VTH N-140
90. BL-C2
91. AA 2700
92. H-380

SO, who's chart you gonna believe?

The thing is, burn rate is not set in stone.

It varies by what cartridge you load it in.

In this case, aussie_shooter just needs to compare powders in his loading manual for the calibers he is loading for. (22-250 and 204 Ruger)
Then pick the best closest that he can get locally.

What works great in a 30-30 or 8x57 may not be the best choice for him in a 22-250 or 204 Ruger.
Especially if he can't get it!

rcmodel

Ridgerunner665
May 27, 2008, 05:04 PM
+1 to rcmodel...burn rate charts are not accurate enough to use as a reference to substitute powders.

Case capacity effects powder burn rates.

scrat
May 27, 2008, 05:51 PM
+1 on Rc

you have to try different powders. Check load data specs for what your shooting. i have tried several different powders for different caliber. Thats why i said h4895. However that was for a specific caliber. in my 30-30 i have tried about 5 types of powders. Some i cant wait to get rid of as i will not use again. H4895 i really liked. The results were very close to W748. I like both W748 and H4895. Buy a couple of different 1lbs containers after you research load data. Remember to check different load data charts though. It always seems that every manufacture and listing will tell you something different. Its the persons opinion on the gun they used to get these results. So you have to start low and work up the load and write down your results to find what works for you.


My thoughts are this. Every woman is different and needs to be treated as such. Every gun is different and needs to be treated as such. Most manufactures use Test guns and test barrels with the best Chronographs on the market to gather their data. Unlike some of us who will buy the chronograph on sale. To use in the firearm that is 20+ years old. Thinking they are going to shoot like a pro. You have to sight in the gun and you have to match the ammo(powder bullet combo) to the gun to get the best results. If W748 is not going to be available. Check load manuals to find a comparable powder. Buy several different brands then record your results.

Shoney
May 27, 2008, 06:08 PM
So!!!!!! Who ya gona call?????????? Powder Burn Rate Busters!!!!!!!!:neener:
151 IMR-4895, IMR
152 H-4895, Hodgdon
153 SP 10, Vectan
154 H-335, Hodgdon
155 R 903, RWS
156 WC 844
157 BL-C(2), Hodgdon
158 WC 846
159 SP 9, Vectan
160 2460, Accurate
161 SP 7, Vectan
162 Reloder 10x, Alliant
163 W-748, Winchester
164 W-748BR, Winchester
165 TAC, Ramshot
166 2495, Accurate
167 Reloder 11, Hercules
168 Reloder 12, Alliant
169 N135, Vihtavuori

depoloni
May 27, 2008, 06:26 PM
"What works great in a 30-30 or 8x57 may not be the best choice for him in a 22-250 or 204 Ruger.
Especially if he can't get it!"

Important item of note:

Nowhere did I suggest that either powder I use in either of those calibers makes it a good choice for his particular cases. I said that I've used them, in what cartridges, and how they performed for me in general. Also as stated, if available where he is. Unless I misread what I typed. So point being I wholeheartedly agree with us also. +1!

rcmodel
May 27, 2008, 07:27 PM
So!!!!!! Who ya gona call?????????? Powder Burn Rate Busters!!!!!!!!Yep!
I depend on Burn Rate Charts to sort out pistol powders from rifle powders.

But that's about as far as I trust them!

rcmodel

ArchAngelCD
May 28, 2008, 01:54 AM
There are some big differences in the charts posted above. I just checked the Hodgdon Burn Rate Chart (http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html) which I find to be a little better than the others. I was going to suggest trying Varget to replace W748 and when I looked at the Hodgdon chart my choice was confirmed by at least burn rate. Varget is also a very good and consistant powder.
Here is a part of the chart:
79 Alliant Reloder 15
80 Vihtavouri N140
81 Hodgdon VARGET
82 Winchester 748
83 Hodgdon BL-C(2)
84 Hodgdon H380
85 IMR-4007 SSC

aussie_shooter
May 28, 2008, 03:56 AM
it seems like you guys in the US have a lot more on offer then us blokes hear
in australia i have a choice of about 3-4 differant brands where i live.winchester,alliant and adi (adi is australian) the problem with the winchester stuff is due to the importer not 100% on what the problem is
they just dont seem to have any that isnt all ready spoken for by the time
they get it hear.

aussie_shooter
May 28, 2008, 03:58 AM
might also get Hodgdon here but havent seen it about.

aussie_shooter
May 28, 2008, 04:00 AM
oh and DIRTMAN it seems to be supply problems more than the goverment
but i dont think they are helping any.

rg1
May 28, 2008, 04:56 AM
I would think that having one of the finest gunpowder companies in the world in Australia, ADI, that powder for shooters there would be readily available? Benchmark made by ADI would work well in .223 and AR2206 is recommended for .308. ADI makes a lot of powder for the U.S. market.
http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/burning_rates.asp

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp

Ol` Joe
May 28, 2008, 09:55 PM
Try AR2208.
Hodgdon retags it and calls it Varget here. It should do well for your needs. Although it may not be the powder that gives the highest velocity, it should be close and accurate to boot.

ArchAngelCD
May 29, 2008, 03:34 AM
If AR2208 is truly Varget I will totally agree you should use that powder. Like I said above, Varget will produce accurate and consistent rounds. I'm sure you will like the results if you use Varget (AR2208) to replace W748.

If you can find Hodgdon powders the above mentioned BL-C(2) is also an option. Hodgdon H380 is also an option although both can be affected by extreme temperatures whereas Varget won't.

Since you said Alliant powders are available where you are and you can't get the other powders already mentioned, Alliant Reloder 10x will also work well for the 22-250 and 204 Ruger rounds.

evan price
May 29, 2008, 03:47 AM
+1 on Varget or whatever it is called down under. I sold off my 4064, 4895 and 3031 and load everything Varget now.

aussie_shooter
May 29, 2008, 05:05 AM
yes ADI is verry easy to get as it is made here was useing it from day one till
i started useing win 748. cause thats all i could get did some phoneing around and found that ADI is easy to get in all the stores i rang i think its just my local gun shop that is haveing supply problems and are telling me lies
about it. also found they are verry expencive compared to all the outher shops i rang (time for a change of local gun shop)

thanks for all the help looks like im going back to ADI 2208 if it throws well in the dillion.

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