.308 autoloaders


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squinty
May 28, 2008, 03:40 AM
How does the accuracy of a Springfield socom compare to a Saiga .308 w/16" barrel? If both guns are in the 2-4 moa range, what would recommend the more expensive Socom 16?

Related note - is it possible to get saigas in .308 these days? Everyone seems out of stock - and I miss the fbmg website...

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For Freedom
May 28, 2008, 04:24 AM
The SOCOM has superior ergonomics, sights, trigger, and can take 20 round magazines legally that are cheaper than Saiga 20 round magazines.

dstorm1911
May 28, 2008, 11:24 AM
A Fal or L1A1 personally and for mags $5 ea for new ones if mag cost is an issue, ya can get a decent FAL for around $800 (less if ya start with onea the old Century built guns and don't mind doin a lil tweaking) or $1500 for a really nice DSA Para

The FAL is like having an all steel milled AR 10 with gas piston rather than direct gas impingment, Eugene Stoner borrowed much of his rifles design from the FAL in fact... and less that 3" is very easily doable, the adjustable gas system is really nice as no buffers etc.. needed just tune to the ammo ya are using to elliminate any contact and reduce recoil etc..

rangerruck
May 28, 2008, 11:54 AM
though i love the saiga, it is as tough as a straight AK to shoot. terrible sights, trigger, bad ergos, etc. now then, you can help all this stuff out with a mojo rear peep site, do a conversion, replace that horrific see saw of a trigger, and it still will be less than 500 bucks proly. I would then say, on all of the Saigas, the one that absolutely requires a mod job is the 308. And if you are more of a traditionalist; the long bbl 308, in wood furniture, is a pretty good looking rifle.
All lengths seem to be accurate as well. But then , as good as a Saiga can be, the socom is a very , very nice piece of weaponry, and the Saiga, could not match it no matter how you upgraded it. You can make a Cadillac , pretty nice, But it is not a mercedes S class.
Gilsgunworks, out of katy tx, i know has some 308's, synth , short bbl.

GunTech
May 28, 2008, 05:34 PM
Eugene Stoner borrowed much of his rifles design from the FAL in fact

I'm not sure how you figure that. The AR-10 (and derivative AR-15/M-16) use a completely different locking system, fire control and construction. The AR-10 derived designs only are similar to the FAL in that they have a hinged, break open receivers.

Stoner utilized the locking mechanism of the Johnson rifle and a highly modified gas system inspired by the Ljungman AG-42. The construction of the AR-10 was revolutionary for its day, and represents a radical departure from traditional rifles in it's use of alloys and synthetics.

The FAL represents one of the last traditional rifles, using a timed threaded barrel and machined receiver. It uses a short stroke gas piston and a tipping bolt from the SAFN (another D. Saive design).

GunTech
May 28, 2008, 05:38 PM
BTW, a tuned AR-10 match rifle will compete with many high end bolt action rifles, and examples capable of 1/2 MOA or better are not unusual.

H2O MAN
May 28, 2008, 05:46 PM
squinty How does the accuracy of a Springfield socom compare to a Saiga .308 w/16" barrel?

Step up to the M14 platform with an 18.0" barrel and you can reliably shoot sub MOA groups.

Jason_G
May 28, 2008, 05:50 PM
I like the M14 platform, but I am not that fond of the SOCOM models in particular. Not balanced well, and the sights are not as good IMO. I like the Scout and Bush models far more for a shorter barrel M14 platform, but honestly the full length M14 feels more natural to me.

Jason

Hoppy590
May 28, 2008, 06:10 PM
The SOCOM has superior ergonomics, sights, trigger, and can take 20 round magazines legally that are cheaper than Saiga 20 round magazines.

at only 4X the cost

H2O MAN
May 28, 2008, 06:29 PM
Quote:
The SOCOM has superior ergonomics, sights, trigger, and can take 20 round magazines legally that are cheaper than Saiga 20 round magazines.
Hoppy590 at only 4X the cost

The good news is that there is something for every budget.

BTW, CMI makes 25 round mags for the M14 :evil:

MD_Willington
May 28, 2008, 06:38 PM
Canadian C1 please!

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as24f-e.htm

The C1A1 has the ability to reload from chargers which is alright, I've done that with fired blanks on my friends C1A1 back in Canada, just to see how it worked.

Eric F
May 28, 2008, 07:08 PM
here we go again down the 308 trail.............

I have had the complete frustration and displeasure of this subject with out the benifit of the internet for part of it.

FAL......stay away from low quality builds like century. Dsa is the best one going. Can expect 2-4 moa typicaly mags are very easy to come by.

H&k and similar clones................not any better, no last round lock back mag change is quick but if you have short arms you will be slow using the op-rod. 2-5 moa. also cheap mage available

m1a great all around execpt for optics, this was designed as an iron sight gun and optics make you hold your head too high even with low profile rings. IMO

m1 garand 8 round clips need I say more but as accurate as the m1a

ak and clones......just not accurate 4-6 moa what a disapoionment!

then the ar platform, mags are not cheap but I understand some can use hk mags or fal mags, I do not know who makes these though. 1 moa or less out of the box! Optic add on's are same as regular ar setups. Parts are plentyful

ar platform gets my voat every time!

H2O MAN
May 28, 2008, 07:27 PM
Eric F

m1a great all around execpt for optics, this was designed as an iron sight gun
and optics make you hold your head too high even with low profile rings. IMO

That problem is moot when you use a SAGE EBR Chassis or a LAW483 M14 MCS from TROY.

wickedsprint
May 28, 2008, 07:28 PM
If we want to get technical, the Springfield guns are 7.62 NATO only, not supposed to use commercial .308 in them.

Eric F
May 28, 2008, 07:39 PM
That problem is moot when you use a SAGE EBR Chassis or a LAW483 M14 MCS from TROY.

Quite right, those things were not around in the 90's that I knew of. I was refering to strictly the standart stock set up.

If we want to get technical, the Springfield guns are 7.62 NATO only, not supposed to use commercial .308 in them
If you only knew the amount of 308 not 762 nato ran threw my gun........I hate that whole 308-762 arguement.

H2O MAN
May 28, 2008, 07:49 PM
Quote:
That problem is moot when you use a SAGE EBR Chassis or a LAW483 M14 MCS from TROY.
Eric F Quite right, those things were not around in the 90's that I knew of. I was refering to strictly the standart stock set up.

The M14/M1A is enjoying a seemingly never ending renaissance.
There are many, many battle proven upgrades available for the platform :)

wickedsprint
May 28, 2008, 07:55 PM
If you only knew the amount of 308 not 762 nato ran threw my gun........I hate that whole 308-762 arguement.

It's not really an argument...it's quite factual that the maker of the very expensive gun made it a point to mention that .308 commercial is not kosher.

H2O MAN
May 28, 2008, 08:25 PM
I spent a few extra $ to get M118LR chambers that allow me to
shoot just about any 7.62 NATO and .308 I can find without issue.

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