I am soo mad (California sucks)


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al g blenny
May 28, 2008, 03:09 PM
So I have been wanting a new 9mm for a while now. I have been doing research for months. I finally make up my mind to get a baby eagle. I was thinking about getting the gold one but we can't get them here in California. I found out that I can just get the black one (that's the only Cali legal one anyway) and send it to Magnum for refinishing. No problem. So I find a good deal on a new eagle and I pay in full. About a week later I haven't heard from the gun store so I decide to call them to see what the day is I can pick it up. They then tell me that there is something wrong and they don't think they can get the gun. The distributer told them something but they couldn't remember what it was. So I call Magnum and they say that there is a new model. They have to register it for sale in California. I ask how long it will take to go through. They tell me that it has been in process for almost a year now. I have no idea if I should wait for the new one or just settle for a different gun. I really really really wanted this one. The new model will have a new front sight and a rail. Anyone know how to figure out how much longer it will be for Cali to approve of it? Any other suggestions for a 9mm that isn't plastic, looks cool, and doesn't cost over $800? Why does California have to be so lame?

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freakshow10mm
May 28, 2008, 03:11 PM
Because it's full of liberal anti gun anti Americans. Vote for change or move. ************ is a lost cause.

everallm
May 28, 2008, 03:24 PM
CZ 75 SP-01 ~ circa $550

saturno_v
May 28, 2008, 03:27 PM
A liberal is not necessarely anti-gun...is not automatic,,,;);)

oneounceload
May 28, 2008, 03:59 PM
A liberal is not necessarely anti-gun...is not automatic

nope, only when it is YOUR guns - amazing how they all have arms or armed bodyguards, but the average guy isn't allowed......

Darthbauer
May 28, 2008, 04:02 PM
I wouldnt wait. Get your money back and buy a used one online.

Black Majik
May 28, 2008, 04:14 PM
Rule #1 of California: Don't look for sympathy for CA on THR. You ain't gonna get it. We're a neglected bunch on here.

Sucks to hear about your situation. The best thing to do, if you absolutely want the older model is to post a WTB ad on the CA specific forum. Someone there will notify you if they got what you're looking for.

www.calguns.net

There's a WTB (want to buy) forum towards the bottom.

Good luck.

The Bushmaster
May 28, 2008, 04:32 PM
I was sooo glad when I retired. I figured that I could go home to Oregon...Nope...The USSR of C had already screwed the Great Northwest up already. So here I am in Missouri and lovin' it...

CountGlockula
May 28, 2008, 04:32 PM
+1 with Black Magik, and it sounds like you're new to gun ownership.

When purchasing a new handgun in CA, always check the Roster of Approved Firearms for sale: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

CWL
May 28, 2008, 05:20 PM
The Baby Eagle/Jericho/UZI is a copy of the CZ. Just get one of those.

Don't get it gold TiN plated, please.

Confederate
May 28, 2008, 05:42 PM
There are plenty of pro-gun people in California, but they're outnumbered, outflanked and out of luck. Have you seen the ammunition laws that are being enacted? Get caught outdoors with a lead bullet and you're in big trouble. The environmental kooks are tying lead bullets to excess lead in the systems of some animals. The lead is not caused by bullets, but by industrial pollution, but still, they see it as a way to supress gun owners.

In the meantime, you might consider a used, pristine S&W 5906 or 659. Beautiful guns and built to last.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/SW659and5906.jpg

The 5906 (top) is the third generation 9mm. The 659 is the second generation
and is also a wonderfully built gun.


Flee California, and don't look back lest thou turn into a pillar of salt!

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/CaliforniaFlag_2.jpg

The Bushmaster
May 28, 2008, 06:27 PM
Oh...I love that poster or sticker...

BamBam-31
May 28, 2008, 07:03 PM
A seldom enforced rule here on THR pertaining to Californians: "Conduct becoming ladies and gentlemen is expected, without religious, national or other prejudices. That means no slurs on Californians, French, Muslims, cops, women or anyone else."

Now back to your regularly scheduled Kali-bashing. :rolleyes:

People that tell us we should move out make me sick. MOVE IN AND HELP US FIGHT. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, OR PUT YOUR MOUTH WHERE YOUR MONEY IS. Whose side are you on, anyways? Certainly not ours, even though we're entrenched in yours.

:cuss:

To the OP: Look into BHP's, CZ 75b's, and Sig 226/229's. Fantastic non-polymer pistols that make anyone's "10 Best 9mm Pistols" list, Californian or otherwise.

TAB
May 28, 2008, 07:07 PM
All you CA bashers, remember laws that get passed here generally get passed nation wide... just something to think about.

slik_rik30
May 28, 2008, 07:16 PM
Sorry about the Cali deal, but to answer your question:

There are a lot of Sigs on that approved list. 226 is the first that comes to mind. All metal, and looks good, those were your criteria, right? You can find them NIB under $800 and CPO (refurbished LE trade-ins) for $550ish.

Gord
May 28, 2008, 07:20 PM
All I'm going to say is - "vote with your feet" is a very valid option. I did, and now I live someplace with actual seasons, buy my guns cash-and-carry (from friendly and competitively priced shops, no less) and save $4k a year on rent and car insurance alone.

Best thing I ever did in my life.

Take a look at CZs. You should be able to find a 75B for somewhere around $450, and a P-01 (if that's CA-approved; either one will come with a neutered 10-round mag) for not too much more.

kamagong
May 28, 2008, 07:24 PM
Because it's full of liberal anti gun anti Americans. Vote for change or move. ************ is a lost cause.

Just how is abandoning the wealthiest, most beautiful state in the Union a good idea? Many of us call California home. It may not be perfect, but I won't be forced out.

BamBam-31
May 28, 2008, 07:25 PM
All I'm going to say is - "vote with your feet" is a very valid option.

All I'm going to say is - "Myopic option tantamount to surrender." Glad it all worked out for you. ;)

CountGlockula
May 28, 2008, 07:27 PM
...but I won't be forced out.

Amen, brother.

camslam
May 28, 2008, 08:20 PM
As a former resident of the state of California as well as marrying a girl from Southern Cal, having family that lives in both the bay area and southern Cali, I confess my only question in regards to making changes in California is:

WHERE DO YOU EVEN START???

In all seriousness that is why I moved out of the state and will never go back. In addition to the beautiful set of gun laws that are on the books, take a look at the state political structure, the taxes, the illegal immigration, and the other parts that make living there not so fun and FOR ME, there just aren't enough smog free, low traffic days, or enough general all around enjoyment to make it worth it.

If anyone has any ideas where to start, I would love to hear them, I look at Cali as an individual that is in the end stages of cancer (no disrespect to anyone), but to explain: the state is sick and it is so far along that about the only thing you can do is try to control the pain. There is no getting better. I will continue to hope that enough people fight for the state, but I am happy doing battles in other areas for now.

Quiet
May 28, 2008, 08:31 PM
www.calguns.net = best resource for a CA gun owner.

IMO, it should be mandatory for any CA gun owner to join the forum on calguns.


Side note:
AB20262 is out of committee. Call/email your state representative to oppose this measure. The current effect of the bill is this: End all mail order handgun ammo sales except LEO and C&R+COE. Sellers of Handgun ammo must have a license and record the details of who they sell to. More information and contact info can be found in this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=101928 AB 2062 will show up Wednesday and must be passed out of its house by May 30.

trbon8r
May 28, 2008, 10:13 PM
************ is a lost cause.

So is Michigan unless you like filth, unemployment, rust, and destitution.

California isn't nearly as bad as some of the bashers make it out to be. If I could afford to live there, I may never have left. There must be something good about the place that people are willing to pay 3/4 million for a shack to live in.

freakshow10mm
May 28, 2008, 10:37 PM
I have a job, run my own business, keep a clean house and yard and find life in Michigan quite comfortable.

MI isn't the best place in the US to live, but it's better than California or New England. My state actually recognizes the Second Amendment and we have our own RKBA amendment in the state constitution. And we don't have a list of "safe guns" that we can own.

Just how is abandoning the wealthiest, most beautiful state in the Union a good idea?
Depends on if you want your freedoms or not. You sure as hell won't find them in California or we wouldn't see these threads.

bannockburn
May 28, 2008, 11:03 PM
To California Gun Owners:

You have my sincerest condolences for having the wherewithal and commitment to live in such a politically abhorrent state. Even if I had the financial means to, I would never live there; I don't think I would even consider taking a trip there either. And this is not California bashing as I feel the same way about New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and any other state with such nonsensical and draconian measures on their books. I could never live in any state that would "allow" me only to purchase those guns from a state "approved" list. Nothing personal, just far too many social engineering, anti-gun politicians with their anti-gun agendas for me.

Confederate
May 28, 2008, 11:11 PM
Just how is abandoning the wealthiest, most beautiful state in the Union a good idea? Many of us call California home. It may not be perfect, but I won't be forced out.
We're not talking about Virginia. We're talking about California. Of course, we tried leaving the Union and they came and brought us back, then they said if we didn't like it, we should go somewhere else. I sure wish they'd make up their mind!

Matt King
May 28, 2008, 11:29 PM
There's always a ton of CA hate on this forum. Outside the gun-laws, California is a great place to live. I can't think of any other state like Cali. But I guess some people have no life outside guns so they like to whine about "************" "**********" "PRK" etc. Whatever.

Marshall
May 28, 2008, 11:36 PM
People that tell us we should move out make me sick. MOVE IN AND HELP US FIGHT. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, OR PUT YOUR MOUTH WHERE YOUR MONEY IS. Whose side are you on, anyways? Certainly not ours, even though we're entrenched in yours.

Are you serious? You're joking right? I don't think you'll find too many takers on that demand. We didn't vote the laws you have into effect. We didn't vote the politicians you have into office. I'm sorry for you, really. But don't expect us to move out of our great states we have worked hard on and leave them to the liberals to screw up in order to join a state we couldn't change in our lifetime. We're too outnumbered from the south and personally, if I landed in certain areas, I would probably shoot myself after a month anyway so I wouldn't be much help.

I hope you can make a change but that state is going down the left lane like a speeding bullet and picking up FPS daily. I do admire your allegiance and wish you well. :)

Oh yea, you have some very nice places there and some beauty not found anywhere else.

mbdolfin
May 28, 2008, 11:37 PM
i know you don't want plastic ...but you might consider a sig pro 2022 in 9mm. i borrowed my fathers the other day and i have to say it has one great trigger. i have a p220 and a p228 and i like the 2022 more than both of them. not to mention that the 2022 looks really cool. you can pick one up for around $510.00 bucks. trust me you won't regret getting one. it is the next sig on my list!

JCF
May 29, 2008, 12:02 AM
I've made official residence in several different countries and a handful of states.

I've never lived anywhere that wasn't the best place in the world to live in the estimation of the majority of its residents.

I've never left one of those places without a large group of residents advising me that the place I was moving to was hell, and passionately articulating the reasons why.

I've only ever moved "back" to one place... California; gun laws or not.

As a wise THR member once opined... "guns are just a part of life, not life itself".

everallm
May 29, 2008, 12:53 AM
Would it not be nice (and surprising easy) if we could return to THR and answer the gentleman's question on type of pistol and drop the "my states firearms laws better than your states...nyah, nyah"

(Dons asbestos suit knowing there is bound to be a flame or 3 from the monomaniacal crew......:evil:)

soccergod04
May 29, 2008, 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamagong
Just how is abandoning the wealthiest, most beautiful state in the Union a good idea? Many of us call California home. It may not be perfect, but I won't be forced out.

We're not talking about Virginia.

+1 From a native Virginian

JCF
May 29, 2008, 01:22 AM
Would it not be nice (and surprising easy) if we could return to THR and answer the gentleman's question on type of pistol and drop the "my states firearms laws better than your states...nyah, nyah"

Yeah... you're right.


Any other suggestions for a 9mm that isn't plastic, looks cool, and doesn't cost over $800? Why does California have to be so lame?

As has been noted... head over to Cal-Guns and post a WTB. If you are willing to buy via a PPT, you can find virtually anything in-state. When people move IN to CA from other states, they are permitted to import and register their privately and previously owned and non-rostered handguns. I know this because I am about to register mine having just moved back. As such, you can typically pick up whatever you want if you are patient and willing to hunt a bit. Maybe an HK P7?

On the other hand, I don't know off hand of any other manufacturers that offer a gold 9mm. If you are really set on a gold gun you might have a challenge. Others may be better versed.

freakshow10mm
May 29, 2008, 01:23 AM
Matt King, guns are a way of life. If my guns aren't welcome, neither is me or my family.

I moved from WI to MI because of WI's lack of carry laws. WI is pretty gun friendly, but without a legal method of carry for it's citizens, it's not for me yet.

JCF
May 29, 2008, 01:57 AM
guns are a way of life. If my guns aren't welcome, neither is me or my family.

Etc...

Everyone has their priorities. If the ability to carry, own hi-cap mags, etc. means that much to many of you than I would certainly submit that you have made the very best decision by staying where you are... or moving somewhere else.

I can definitely respect that.

Not everyone places their guns, and the ability to carry them, as high on their list of priorities as some of you do however... at least not to the extent that they are prepared to move. Others feel the right to stay put and fight for what they believe.

If the .gov instituted an all out ban on private gun ownership, many of us wouldn't leave the USA either. Some of you undoubtedly would, but many of us like the country well enough to make it worth staying and fighting for. We like it here.

I like Cali. I like it more than other much more gun-friendly places that I've lived. That's just me. I believe many don't like it, but I do. I have interests and priorities that make it sooooo worth it.

Personally, and on behalf of all the other Cali gun owners who feel the way that I do... I hope you can respect that.

If you can't, well... we'll get over it.

freakshow10mm
May 29, 2008, 02:13 AM
I respect it, I just don't get it.

Moonclip
May 29, 2008, 02:52 AM
I live in CA, guns are my life:), and I wont be forced out, at least not for the time being,my family has had a presence in CA since at least the 1880's.

Be happy someone keeps a gun culture alive and active in CA.

Outside of LA,SF,Berekley. most non CA people would be surprised how rural and right wing many areas of CA actually are.

JCF
May 29, 2008, 03:07 AM
I respect it, I just don't get it.

I understand. It's just a matter of priorities I guess.

I once made the acquaintance of an individual who invested 6+ hours of his day, every day, to physical fitness and martial arts training. He was fierce with his hands and moved like a cat. His observation was that it was incomprehensible to him that people could proclaim to be seriously concerned about their personal safety, to the extent they carried a gun, while simultaneously living a sedentary lifestyle, smoking, drinking and eating to the point of obesity.

Yeah... I understand, but the point is he didn't. His beliefs, practices and way of life were sufficiently sacred to him that he just couldn't understand how anyone could put a cheeseburger in their mouth, smoke a cigarette or drink a Heineken.

I believe it is important to be able to handle oneself, but not to the extent that I am willing to spend hours and hours every day perfecting my ground-fighting technique.... nor give up carbs.

Some would call me a fool for that.

Just a matter of priorities.

Beetle Bailey
May 29, 2008, 03:08 AM
Check out the CZ-75B or CZ SP-01. Or shop around for the old Baby Eagle. Somebody's got to have one in stock.

JCF
May 29, 2008, 03:15 AM
Check out the CZ-75B or CZ SP-01. Or shop around for the old Baby Eagle. Somebody's got to have one in stock.

A gold one though... that's gonna be tough.

chrismc410
May 29, 2008, 08:40 AM
As bad as CA is with gun laws, it could be worse. Namely, Washington, D.C. If one won't be forced out of CA then that is commendable, but for those who live in D.C. and want a firearm at all, for them there is no other option at the present time (Supreme Court decision notwithstanding) but to either cross the borders at Wisconsin, New Hampshire, Georgia, Massachusetts and Conneticut Avenues into Maryland or cross the Potomac River into Virginia.

Voting with ones feet is effective, no question. However, one does have to respect those who are willing to fight for their rights, despite the current attitudes and the odds in CA. At the same time, if no other option exists such as the case of DC, then by all means leave for a more friendly place to live.

freakshow10mm
May 29, 2008, 09:50 AM
I believe it is important to be able to handle oneself, but not to the extent that I am willing to spend hours and hours every day perfecting my ground-fighting technique.
Haha, reminds me of the gun/sword fight in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Easier to shoot someone than kick his ass.:)

Old Fuff
May 29, 2008, 10:46 AM
Rule #1 of California: Don't look for sympathy for CA on THR. You ain't gonna get it. We're a neglected bunch on here.

Not really, I truly feel sorry for those that are reduced to being second-class citizens because they live in California or some other leftist run state or city.

But frankly, neither you nor I can change the situation. In California, as well as places like New York, Chicago, Washington, DC, Maryland, New Jersey – and so on, you are outnumbered by the freeloader vote that think the welfare state and big government intrusion into every facet of life is a great way to go. So gun owners among others end up standing on a cliff spitting into the wind.

That leaves those who would like to breathe free two options. Move –immigrate to another state where your rights are respected, or stay where you are and take it.

As for myself – I moved. Eventually California, like other leftist societies will collapse under its own weight. But you may not live long enough to see the day.

tntwatt
May 29, 2008, 11:00 AM
the wealthiest, most beautiful state in the Union

This from a state that is so messed up it ran out of electricity and had to buy it on the open market. The state deregulated electricity, which means that it allowed itself to go out on the open market and buy. At the same time, the utilities were ordered to freeze the rates they charge their customers. So the price on the open market went up -- because there are only a few suppliers -- and the price to the consumer stayed low. The utilities were paying many times more than they were charging, and they've gone, literally, broke. Southern California Edison has defaulted on one $500 million payment already, and Pacific Gas and Electric has defaulted on another.

Don't expect common sense gun laws when so much else is messed up.

trbon8r
May 29, 2008, 11:54 AM
But frankly, neither you nor I can change the situation. In California, as well as places like New York, Chicago, Washington, DC, Maryland, New Jersey – and so on, you are outnumbered by the freeloader vote that think the welfare state and big government intrusion into every facet of life is a great way to go. So gun owners among others end up standing on a cliff spitting into the wind.

You know I often see Maryland getting lumped in with California, New York, and New Jersey as being gun unfriendly places to live. Having moved from California to Maryland, I can tell you that our 2nd Amendment rights are a far sight better in Maryland than in California or some of the other places you mentioned.

Maryland:

Class 3 state? check

Can I buy an AR-15 or AK-47? check

Handguns? There is an approved roster for handguns, and a fired shell casing requirement. It is headache and we don't like it, but the reality is that with few exceptions, just about anything that can legally be bought anywhere else, is on the approved roster for purchase in Maryland.

Only magazines of 20 rounds or less can be purchased in Maryland. However, magazines of larger capacity are legal to possess. In other words you can drive to a VA or PA gun show and buy as many 30 rounders as you wish, legally. You just can't purchase or transfer these magazines within Maryland.

The biggest meaningful restriction we have on our rights is a lack of CCW. Making Maryland a shall issue state is something we have been fighting for. There was a bill in the state senate that would have done exactly this, but due to some shenanigans it wasn't allowed out of the drawer for a vote. We will keep up our efforts again next year.

Maryland isn't paradise for gun owners, but we are a far sight better off than some of the other places you mention, and don't belong in the same category as them. The reason Maryland hasn't gone the way of some of these other states is because we have been more effective in fighting for our rights here. Gun owners are more organized here than they were when I lived in California. Part of that likely has to do with Maryland being a smaller state. Anytime a gun grabbing scheme comes up we have 150 or more gun owners that take a day off of work, show up at the hearings in Annapolis and pack the place to standing room only. On the other side, the only people you see showing up are a couple paid lobbyists from Brady Inc. So yes, here in Maryland there is something we can do to change the situation.

Next year our biggest threat to our 2A rights here in Maryland will likely come from Washington D.C. instead of Annapolis. :rolleyes:

Old Fuff
May 29, 2008, 12:13 PM
Maryland may not be as bad as California, but if you compare it to Arizona... :barf:

But anyway, if you are satisfied with things the way they are that's fine. To each his own.

You might find this thread to be of interest. It's partly the reason I put Maryland on my short list.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=366999

trbon8r
May 29, 2008, 12:58 PM
I wouldn't say I'm satisfied with the gun laws here, in fact as I said there are many things we are working on trying to improve.

Like most people, I'm not going to base my entire living situation on where the gun laws are friendliest. There are other factors that are equal to if not more important to my wife and I with regard to where we live, beyond finding a state with the absolute best gun laws. You still have to make a living, sometimes go where the job openings are within your company, and deal with other nuances of life above and beyond guns.

I'm glad for you all in Arizona that you have better laws than we do here. I hope you aren't getting too complacent though, because you folks are at ground zero with the illegal alien problem. As the infestation continues, look for more Democrats to get elected that promise free stuff. And we all know where most Democrats stand on guns. Just look at that state directly to your west if you want a glimpse of what your future could quickly become once the illegals and their offspring begin to gain political power through sheer numbers.

Mad Magyar
May 29, 2008, 12:59 PM
the illegal immigration
I sure wish we had Joe Arpaio here in southern N.M. My in-laws in CA, never visit them....:barf:

Matt King
May 29, 2008, 03:32 PM
Matt King, guns are a way of life. If my guns aren't welcome, neither is me or my family.

I moved from WI to MI because of WI's lack of carry laws. WI is pretty gun friendly, but without a legal method of carry for it's citizens, it's not for me yet.

I guess if guns are all u care about . . . :scrutiny:
Outside of gun-laws, name one thing that MI has going for it.
IMO: California > Michigan or Wisconsin

Life is a balance. Like I said, If all u care about is guns then you probably wouldn't want to live in Cali.

BamBam-31
May 29, 2008, 03:43 PM
There are posters in this thread that have been around long enough to realize that whenever firearms rights in CA are discussed here on THR it invariably turns into:

--Kali-bashing ("Land of fruits & nuts")
--patronizing, condescending "I pity the poor little second-class 'citizens' in Kali" attitudes
--my state is better than your state because _________ pissing contests

You do see this trend, right? And what good does it do, other than render us a house divided? If I were an anti, I'd LOVE to see these kind of threads. I'd fuel the inane in-house bickering as much as I could. I'd love to see other gunnies collectively turn their backs on CA ("Leave 'em to their loonie liberals! Let 'em fall into the ocean!"). I'd sit there in wonder, baffled as to why gunnies can't see what they so obviously do: CA is a big friggin' domino.

Death by a thousand cuts. One right at a time, one state at a time. Those of you complaining about Californians "taking it" whenever our rights are compromised are hypocrites. Every time we lose our rights, WE lose our rights, get it? Forest for the trees, people.

"Oh, it's only a .50 cal. Who has a .50 cal, anyways?" = "Oh, it's only Kali. Let 'em rot."

"Well, I already have my hi-caps/EBR's, so the hi-cap/EBR ban won't affect me." = "Well, I live in AZ, so who cares?"

We gunowners in CA do what we can. Visit www.calguns.net to see what the front line looks like. The LAST thing we need is smart-ass self-defeating comments from our own sideline.

Apologies to the OP for the threadjack. Next time, don't put "California sucks" in your title, eh?

JCF
May 29, 2008, 04:01 PM
You still have to make a living, sometimes go where the job openings are within your company, and deal with other nuances of life above and beyond guns.

Yup. The "nuances".

For some, like me, there's something about standing in the middle of the 100+ degree desert surrounded by nothing but wind and rattlesnakes that the gun on your hip just doesn't make up for.

Eventually California, like other leftist societies will collapse under its own weight. But you may not live long enough to see the day.

Eventually EVERY society, leftist or not, will collapse in one way or another... including our own. While I certainly don't take that lightly, I'm not about to settle for unhappily living somewhere that I don't want to in order to arm myself in preparation for a potential shootout with threats undetermined. Nor am I going to retreat from the fight here in order to live under the illusion of safety elsewhere and smugly deride those who don't accompany me.

Now... seeing as it is lunchtime here on the West Coast, I am off to enjoy a nice glass of Cabernet and a plate of spaghetti all'aglio on the sidewalk. Maybe I'll stroll along the coast and watch the ships after that. It's a lovely 59 degrees outside.

I like it here.

Old Fuff
May 29, 2008, 04:10 PM
O.K., so just what would you like the rest of us too do? We can send letters and e-mail messages to your state legislators, but frankly the anti-gun ones will just be ammused. They are well aware that Arizona residents can't vote them out of office. Send money? To who, and how much good will it do? Exactly how are you going to turn things around when the coastal county Democrats have you far outnumbered? Is there a viable game plan that can turn things around?

Oh, and to add insult to injury, now California liberals are moving into Arizona in record numbers, which is what we don't need. We would be happy to send them all back in exchange for gun owners, but it doesn't seem to work that way.

freakshow10mm
May 29, 2008, 04:14 PM
Outside of gun-laws, name one thing that MI has going for it.
IMO: California > Michigan or Wisconsin

MI and WI have a lower cost of living, cheaper gasoline, are more moderate politically, have lower property taxes, have cheaper insurance rates, lower sales tax rate. The hunting laws are a lot better, there is a better variety of game to hunt, seasons are longer. WI has a more stable economy than either MI or CA. I can hunt with projectiles containing lead. My ammunition isn't required to contain a serial number, like CA's recently passed legislation that goes into effect, when, 2009? 2010? Good luck getting that repealed.

Gun laws are a very big part of where I live. That trumps California big time. I like having 20 and 30 rd mags for my AR15. I like being able to attach a flash suppressor, folding stock, and bayonet on my weapons. I like that I don't have to see if a gun I want is on an approved list. I like the fact that when I open carry no one calls the cops or hits the deck. People look at you weird if you DON'T own a gun.

WI is very NFA friendly as you can own anything, the only problem is no concealed carry. MI is more limited with just machine guns and AOWs (suppressors are coming soon).

Guns represent freedom. The less gun laws, the more freedom. That applies to many other freedoms as well.

Matt King
May 29, 2008, 04:23 PM
There's a reason MI has a lower cost of living; MI doesn't have much.
You would decide where to live based on whether or not u can have 30 round mags for your AR? Cali has great weather, some of the nicest scenery in the US, surfing, snowboarding, skiing, great restaurants, etc. All those things make Cali a much nicer place to live than MI.

Marshall
May 29, 2008, 04:33 PM
OK, maybe the original poster should have titled the thread:

"I Am So Mad Because The Leftist Liberals That Run The State Of California Suck And So Do Those That Support Them".

Assuming a 40 million people state, that should cover the politicians and well over 20 million people. Kinda a long title to a thread but I guess it's not as offensive.

TAB
May 29, 2008, 04:34 PM
. The hunting laws are a lot better, there is a better variety of game to hunt, seasons are longer. WI has a more stable economy than either MI or CA. I can hunt with projectiles containing lead. My ammunition isn't required to contain a serial number, like CA's recently passed legislation that goes into effect, when, 2009? 2010? Good luck getting that repealed.


have you ever hunted in CA?


the bullet seralization crap has not been passed


The lead ammo ban is a very small area, guess what, in 25 years, all hunting ammo will have to be lead free...every where. Trust me, its been coming for a long time.

Old Fuff
May 29, 2008, 04:35 PM
Like most people, I'm not going to base my entire living situation on where the gun laws are friendliest. There are other factors that are equal to if not more important to my wife and I with regard to where we live, beyond finding a state with the absolute best gun laws. You still have to make a living, sometimes go where the job openings are within your company, and deal with other nuances of life above and beyond guns.

Now... seeing as it is lunchtime here on the West Coast, I am off to enjoy a nice glass of Cabernet and a plate of spaghetti all'aglio on the sidewalk. Maybe I'll stroll along the coast and watch the ships after that. It's a lovely 59 degrees outside. I like it here.

Yup, I understand that. But if you choose to live in any of the 50 states some bad goes with the good. In the case of California part of the picture is a left-wing, all intrusive, dictate everything government. They don't believe in individual freedoms of any kind, and are out to eliminate all of the firearms they can. Gun-rights are only a small part of the picture, but it's the one we tend to notice.

What you seem to be saying is that life is so good that gun ownership is almost inconsequental. Personally it will take a lot more then, "a nice glass of Cabernet and a plate of spaghetti all'aglio on the sidewalk" to compromise any of my rights.

trbon8r
May 29, 2008, 04:40 PM
O.K., so just what would you like the rest of us too do?

Having been on the California side of the fence I don't think California gun owners are asking gun owners in other states to do anything. The only exception might be a request to turn down the sarcasm and smartass comments, because it gets tiresome to listen to when you are writing letters and fighting for your rights as best you can. The only other thing I can think of is to stop blaming Californians for all the homegrown problems in other states. You all have your share of left wing kooks, and they didn't all come from California. This isn't directed at you Old Fuff, I'm just talking in general here.

freakshow10mm
May 29, 2008, 04:44 PM
Yes, gun laws are important to me. They are the deciding factor and usually the most important factor to consider when moving. Specifically, CA, NY, MD, DE, RI, MA, ME, CT, and NJ are states that I will never visit nor move to simply because of their gun laws. If my guns aren't welcome neither is me or my family. I will spend my money and taxes elsewhere.

MI has all that except surfing. If you get out in the Great Lakes far enough you'll get some good waves. Trouble is you'll be dodging the freighters along the way.

trbon8r
May 29, 2008, 04:47 PM
What you seem to be saying is that life is so good that gun ownership is almost inconsequental.

No one is saying that at all. What happens if some unpleasant laws get passed in Arizona? Are you going to leave your job, family, and throw everything away just so you can buy some more guns when you already have plenty of them in the safe? Then are you going to pack up and move again if things start going bad in your new home state?

JCF
May 29, 2008, 04:55 PM
O.K., so just what would you like the rest of us too do?

What should YOU do?

I don’t know… do whatever you want. Build yourself a bunker and buy lots of surplus gas masks and camo face paint for all I care. I don’t give a rip what YOU do. No one is being critical of YOUR personal decision to live how and where you want to. Some are simply stating that it isn’t for them… it certainly isn’t for me.

Insofar as any viable plan for Cali’s gun laws; no… there certainly isn’t any light at the end of the tunnel. Certainly no plan more viable or potentially heartening than there is for many other pressing issues currently facing this state, your state, or the nation… gun control, economy, housing, war or otherwise.

I’m not running to Canada regardless, nor am I going to begin criticizing those that decide to remain Americans. I still believe it's worth the effort... both on a state and national level. Despite its' massive problems, the USA is still a great place to live... even Cali.

What you seem to be saying is that life is so good that gun ownership is almost inconsequental. Personally it will take a lot more then, "a nice glass of Cabernet and a plate of spaghetti all'aglio on the sidewalk" to compromise any of my rights.

Nope. I don't seem to be saying that at all. I own lots of guns here in Cali. Restrictions regarding the ability to tuck them into my waistband aren't sufficient to convince me to move somewhere I don't want to be however. Life is, to me, indeed at least THAT good here.

Now if you’ll excuse me, pasta is served.

Matt King
May 29, 2008, 05:10 PM
Yes, gun laws are important to me. They are the deciding factor and usually the most important factor to consider when moving. Specifically, CA, NY, MD, DE, RI, MA, ME, CT, and NJ are states that I will never visit nor move to simply because of their gun laws. If my guns aren't welcome neither is me or my family. I will spend my money and taxes elsewhere.

MI has all that except surfing. If you get out in the Great Lakes far enough you'll get some good waves. Trouble is you'll be dodging the freighters along the way.

Somehow I don't believe that MI compares w/ Napa Valley. ;)
Napa, S.F. Bay area, and the Sierras have it all. Some of the best places in the US to live IMO.

CountGlockula
May 29, 2008, 05:23 PM
This is my CA:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pentaxasof3-3-08076.jpg

To stay on topic, before it gets locked:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Range%20Day/IMGP0351.jpg

JCF
May 29, 2008, 05:25 PM
Somehow I don't believe that MI compares w/ Napa Valley.
Napa, S.F. Bay area, and the Sierras are great places to live.

:D

Nothing against MI, I've traveled it extensively and there are some nice enough places, but.... that comparison is a little bit like saying you can get a buzz from sniffing solvent just as well as having a glass of cognac. There may indeed be merits to each of them (I hear glue is a nice warm buzz), but they're still kind of apples and oranges if you know what I mean.

The Bushmaster
May 29, 2008, 05:29 PM
Yup Countglockula. That's the cali. coast line I remember. Baron grass lands and sea (no trees) and ugly. You need to have a look at the Oregon coast before the calif's ruin it.

I lived in Lockford and was the range master on the range east of Stockton. I moved (job related) to Santa Paula and used the range in Filmore. I knew the owner/rancher...

CountGlockula
May 29, 2008, 05:34 PM
The Bushmaster-beat you to it.:D Good gun laws in OR too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Oregon077.jpg

Darthbauer
May 29, 2008, 05:40 PM
Can we stop the state bashing and get on with the OP's topic. At this rate its turning into a 9mm vs. 45ACP type thread.



Finding anything gold plated from the factory will be hard. Find any gun you like in black and just get it re-finished.

CWL
May 29, 2008, 05:54 PM
Over 10% of the military deaths in Iraq & Afghanistan have been Californians who made the ultimate sacrifice. That is more than double the losses of any other state, and last time I checked there are 50 States + territories in the USA.

California has always contributed more than its share keeping the USA solvent & safe.

All you 'bashers' who don't have a clue, there is good & bad everywhere, deal with it and move on.

JCF
May 29, 2008, 05:56 PM
My fugly and treeless CA.

And, with all due respect, I think we've carefully and exhaustively analyzed the OP's topic, and are pretty much in universal agreement that good 9mm pistols are readily available... but those cool-looking factory gold plated ones are going to be rare finds.

The Bushmaster
May 29, 2008, 10:58 PM
Oh look...euculiptus and bushes. I've ridden the Sierras and seen lots of trees, but that's not the coast.

And I agree...he just isn't going to get a gold plated auto in the USSR of C anytime soon. So let's put this string to bed...

JCF
May 29, 2008, 11:55 PM
That's not only the coast, it's the abhorrent city of San Francisco. That pic is just down the hill from the Palace of the Legion of Honor.

BamBam-31
May 30, 2008, 12:06 AM
Looks like you don't know the "USSR of C" quite as well as you say you do....:p

Black Majik
May 30, 2008, 12:15 AM
It's amazing how anytime CA is brought up, the thread always derails to bashing this state. People will take any opportunity given to take a jab at us.

Segregating us and leaving us for dead isn't the way to go. We're all suppose to be in this together. Us Californians are still fighting hard with the opportunities presented. We've gotten CCW rising in my county, our AR,AK and other EBR rifle situations are improving.

As difficult as it may be to believe, guns aren't a priority. We have many other reasons for choosing to stay in this state.


The constant jabs at Californians get really tiring.

socaldan
May 30, 2008, 01:48 AM
FIRST..I'm "SOCALDAN"...Do the math...!
SECOND...I'm an N.R.A. member, I'm a C.R.P.A. member and I'm voting "REPUBLICAN"...!!!
If ANY of you FINE people can't say "AYE" to at least TWO of these statements....THANKS FOR NOTHING!!!

freakshow10mm
May 30, 2008, 09:28 AM
I'm NRA and vote Libertarian.

The Bushmaster
May 30, 2008, 10:41 AM
Bambam-31...I was captured by the USSR of C for a 20 year sentense after I retired from the Navy. I lived near Stockton for 13 of those years and the last 7 in Ventura County. I know San Francisco well (enough to stay away from it). I too, am a member of the NRA and CRPA. I spent most of my free time hunting or on horse back in the Sierras and the coastal foot hills.

MarcusWendt
May 30, 2008, 01:40 PM
People that tell us we should move out make me sick. MOVE IN AND HELP US FIGHT. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, OR PUT YOUR MOUTH WHERE YOUR MONEY IS. Whose side are you on, anyways? Certainly not ours, even though we're entrenched in yours.

Can I get a Hallelujah? Can I get an AMEN!!!!?? Testify my Brutha! Speak on it!

It's as if people who left CA have received citizenship from France or something.

We are on the front lines, not in the rear with the gear. Yes, it CAN suck sometimes, but we stay, we fight, to the last man.

The Bushmaster
May 30, 2008, 03:45 PM
My main reason for escaping was I would not be able to afford my horses if I stayed in the USSR of C...One can not afford to retire there and own property...Just can't...

BamBam-31
May 30, 2008, 04:48 PM
Ah, that would explain your bitterness, wouldn't it? ;)

Sorry to hear about your financial woes. However, plenty of people retire in this beautiful state. With property. With horses. You're just not one of them. So, again, your blanket statements about California (extrapolation from personal experience, it seems) are less than accurate. Believe them if you want, just don't expect anyone else to.

And I've often said that much of the Kali-bashing here on THR stems from motives other than gun-related concerns. Thank you, sir, for proving my point. Hopefully, a Mod wil take note and perhaps revisit the whole Kali-bashing issue.

(You may have the last word, if you wish. It's called venting. Go ahead and call it "USSR of C" again. It's okay. :p)

The Bushmaster
May 30, 2008, 05:27 PM
Naw...Enough has been said. Though I'm not to sure which is worse...Ilinnoy or Kali...Let us know when all gun manufacturers quit selling to your "fine" state. I know of two so far.

I do feel for you. I fought long and hard for gun rights in that state. Just too many uneducated or refuse to be educated bleeding heart liberals including your governor, which I voted for not realizing his true colors. I wish you luck...

An Old Oregonian...The Bushmaster...

Gord
May 30, 2008, 05:44 PM
You may have the last word, if you wish. It's called venting.

What do you call the OP that started this thread? Venting is great, but if there's nothing to be done about it short of moving out of the state, why bother? All you're going to get are admonitions to do exactly that.

teknoid
May 30, 2008, 05:46 PM
I used to travel to CA on business a couple of times every year. I was unfortunate in that I usually ended up in LA or San Diego.

The scenery was nice, when it wasn't shaking or burning. The cost of living was out of this world, too. There are a LOT of beautiful places in this country. Many of them have fewer drawbacks than others.

JCF
May 30, 2008, 06:33 PM
The scenery was nice, when it wasn't shaking or burning. The cost of living was out of this world, too.

The cost of living is high, no question. I actually left Cali a couple of years ago to chase a lower cost of living. I never had any illusion that where I was going was going to offer the kind of recreational benefits that I enjoyed in Cali, but I thought the lower cost of living and the resulting extra money in my bank account would definitely compensate for it. I bought an enormous and beautiful house for less than it would cost to rent an apartment here.

Problem?

I took almost a 50% hit on my salary right off the hop.

The aircraft hanger sized house that I could now afford cost me 6 times as much to heat, cool and power than did my Cali house... partially because of its' size, and partially because of the fact that it was in the middle of No Country for Old Men type heat.

My health care insurance cost tripled, and required heavy deductibles and co-pays... despite the fact that every cost calculator, website, etc. that I researched indicated that it would be cheaper.

Commute distances were no less than what they were in Cali.... despite the fact that every cost calculator, website, etc. that I researched indicated that they would be.

Food was no less than it was in Cali....despite the fact that every cost calculator, website, etc. that I researched indicated that it would be.

My car insurance was no less than it was in Cali... despite the fact that every cost calculator, website, etc. that I researched indicated that it would be.

So, long story short, at the end of the day I was not one dollar further ahead living in my big house in the "lowest cost of living" part of the USA than I was living in the place I really wanted to. I guess I could have moved into a little house or apartment and perhaps saved some money... but the idea of moving was to improve quality of life, not replicate it in a place that I would rather not be.

So, for me, it made sense to move back. Now I live where I want to... just like all of you. We're all happy.

So tomorrow morning, when I walk out onto the patio of my overpriced housing and look out across the ocean in the distance, I'll once again smile and stretch, take a deep breath of the cool air and, with my guns in their safe and my pockets as full as they were in the desert, be content in the knowledge that I have found my own personal paradise.... just like, I'm sure, all of you do each day.

Right?

BamBam-31
May 30, 2008, 06:55 PM
Let us know when all gun manufacturers quit selling to your "fine" state. I know of two so far.


That would be financial suicide for the larger companies like Glock, Ruger, Springfield, etc. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. They could lose Utah, Kentucky, and Missouri, and I doubt it'd hurt as much as if they lost California. While I applaud Barrett's gesture, the other company you speak of wasn't really selling anything in CA anyways, so their "boycott" is more bark than bite (all bark, actually). And I voted for Arnie, too. Who knew? :(


if there's nothing to be done about it short of moving out of the state, why bother? All you're going to get are admonitions to do exactly that.

Again, I would direct you to www.calguns.net. (Are you really an ex-Californian gunowner who doesn't know about Calguns?) Look in particular at the 2A section to see what's being done.

No one said there isn't anything to be done. You said that, you believed that, that's why you left. Best of luck to you. Please don't undermine the efforts of those that choose to stay and fight. We're the ones keeping the gun culture alive here, as Moonclip put it, and it sure is a helluva lot harder to do here than where you're at.

I used to travel to CA on business a couple of times every year. I was unfortunate in that I usually ended up in LA or San Diego.

The scenery was nice, when it wasn't shaking or burning. The cost of living was out of this world, too. There are a LOT of beautiful places in this country. Many of them have fewer drawbacks than others.

Again, every thread discussing CA inevitably devolves into Kali-bashing posts like this. Nothing pertinent to the firearms questions initially raised by the OP, just an opportunity to say "CA sucks." Thank you, too, sir, for proving my point.

How much more Kali-bashing before a Mod realizes this thread, like so many Kali-bashing threads before it, has veered hopelessly off-topic and off The High Road? :rolleyes: :banghead:

freakshow10mm
May 30, 2008, 10:52 PM
I paid $30,000 for my house last year. It has a new furnace with central air, new water heater, siding is 5 years old so is the metal roof. The lot is 50x120, the house is 1358 sq ft and is walking distance (2 blocks max) from:

hospital
convenience store
post office
credit union
two automotive repair shops
hospital
doctor's office
6 restaurants
3 bars
4 blocks from the fire station
1 block away from the police station
1 block away from the village hall
8 blocks from the school
travel time to work: 2 minutes

Cost of living bills:
Mortgage, with HO insurance paid AND property taxes paid through escrow: $330.28
heating/cooling (gas): $150-200 in winter; $50 in summer
electricity: $75 tops
water: $30

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Home/DSC02014.jpg

This is not my truck, this is the previous owner's truck.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Home/DSC02017.jpg

JCF
May 30, 2008, 11:56 PM
Excellent.

A very nice home at a very good price.

And if you too wake up every morning and realize that you have found paradise; that you are living the way you want to and there is no place you would rather live than right there... then you know exactly how I feel.

socaldan
May 31, 2008, 03:00 AM
BOY...Step on some toes and a whole lot of B.S. excuses come out!!!
Stop telling me there's no hope and support us here and give us some hope.
Stop j%@king me off and HELP US!
After all..if "they" get away with it here in the P.R.C. (peoples republic of **********)...YOUR NEXT!!!
HEY...We can DISARM KENTUCKY or UTAH...What then... THEN we fight???
...YA...O/K...
For all you supporters...THANKYOU.
For the rest of you...Well.. I guess you deserve what you get!
how does this sound...
"BARBARA BOXER for PRESEDENT"

socaldan
May 31, 2008, 03:10 AM
SORRY. I just get a little TIMID sometimes. ;)
I don't need to tell you we're ALL in trouble.
I just wish we could get more help. :(
I'm sure you ALL do all you can.
DON'T YOU ??? :scrutiny:

teknoid
June 4, 2008, 12:57 PM
Quote:
I used to travel to CA on business a couple of times every year. I was unfortunate in that I usually ended up in LA or San Diego.

The scenery was nice, when it wasn't shaking or burning. The cost of living was out of this world, too. There are a LOT of beautiful places in this country. Many of them have fewer drawbacks than others.[\QUOTE]


[QUOTE]Again, every thread discussing CA inevitably devolves into Kali-bashing posts like this. Nothing pertinent to the firearms questions initially raised by the OP, just an opportunity to say "CA sucks." Thank you, too, sir, for proving my point.


I was bashing no one, as my post clearly states. For those who enjoy CA, have at it. I prefer my home in the mountains, and love it here. The cost of living is much less. I too, had to take a pay cut to move here (from IL). I make a third less, and my disposable income increased by the same amount. My freedom increased by tenfold, however.

My comment on "shaking and burning" was factual. On one of my trips (don't remember date) the quake that took down the big "A" at Anaheim stadium occurred. On another, it was hard to find my rental car. All the cars in the lot were gray, having been covered by ashes from the fire just blocks away.

My house payments on a new home with 10 acres is less than an efficiency apt. in CA. If I want to see the ocean, I'll take a trip to Tybee Island. I get free accommodations with relatives. As I said, there are a LOT of beautiful places in this country. CA is only one of them. Whatever floats your boat.

AtticusThraxx
June 4, 2008, 11:54 PM
All that aside...a gold Desert Eagle? Come on dude!:D

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