[Kor]

...the BeltSword.

www.BeltSwords.com - NSFW!!! :o

Discuss amongst yourselves...


Moderator Note: Not Safe For Work

[tank mechanic]

That was one minute of time that I will never get back. Looks very cheap and uncomfortable.

[Rokyudai]

Cool... Mall Ninjas have a new weapon in their arsenal!

Seriously.... :neener:

[fletcher]

LOL that is too funny

[gb6491]

Grandma scares me!!!!!:eek:

[CWL]

That is the cheapest looking set of hair extensions I've ever seen on anyone...forgot to look for a sword.

Seems like both the girl & "Razorman" had problems deploying the sword with the correct edge pointed toward threat.

I live in CA, don't know how I'll manage now knowing that I'll never be able to buy the belt system here...

[Rupestris]

Military: There are military applications. Unable to comment.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/diskmandave/roflmfao.jpg

[Geronimo45]

A sword made out of spring steel?
Neat idea... the sword's probably worthless for anything but slapping people. One of the cutting plywood videos appears to be faked.

[JShirley]

There is a traditional sword belt in India, actually, but they have all sorts of weird weapons.

[bensdad]

Belt sword?!?!

You'll slice your eye out, kid.

[CZ.22]

There is a traditional sword belt in India, actually, but they have all sorts of weird weapons.
Isn't that because fakirs weren't allowed to carry conventional weapons?

[Smith]

ROFL!!! Military and Police applications?!!?!:what:

[jackdanson]

That was quite funny.

[Don Gwinn]

Right, the military thing worries me less than the police. I'd like to be in the room when this guy pitches the chief of a police department. "What is the one tool missing from the modern patrolman's toolbox? The SWORD!"

A member who apparently wished to remain anonymous also thought it would be a good idea to point out that this thing is probably illegal in rich, varied and multifaceted ways in many jurisdictions. So don't rush out to buy one, now.

[JTW Jr.]

the best part...

The RazorSword is the first sword that will never need to be sharpened, because the rounded edge will never get dull. Guess they should have said , never get duller , shipped dull , so you dont get a ninjury

you do however get to join a special task force....

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/lblackwell/2005/04/15/dont_worry_maam.jpg
You too can bring the rain !

Maybe buy em in bulk and hand em out to the gangbangers who wear their pants hanging off their butts ;)

[sm]

<tacky>

Well I guess if one has a Ultimate Extreme Shotgun [tm] , with 3 1/2" buckshot, that is THE round for all things dangerous on Planet Earth...

Only fitting they have a edged something to field dress and handle all things Ultimate Extreme felled by such a Ultimate Extreme Shotgun.

</tacky>

[TimboKhan]

I can see the military applications. If I were a terrorist and some soldier pulled that on me, I would probably die laughing.

Seriously, I don't know that I have ever seen a product so clearly devised to appeal to mall ninjas. It has every element that draws those boys in:

Topless girl
Hints at special forces usage
Ninjaesque concealability
Inexpensive
Sweet hentai name - "Razorsword"
Testimony to it's sweetness, IE

Man that’s fast…where did the sword come from?” (The RazorSword was deployed so “Lightning Fast” that the martial arts experts could not tell where the RazorSword came from)

Dumb, man. Super dumb.

By the way, this made me laugh extremely hard:

“Futuristic Super-Weapon” Curtis W. Koehler (Of German Descent) (Born and resides in Wisconsin) is the inventor of this patent pending system that allows a massive double-edged RazorSword to strike instantly from out of “thin air”!

First, that Curtis W. Koehler felt it necessary to point out that he is a Wisconsonite of German descent, then that he had to put "Futuristic Super-Weapon" and "thin air" in qoutes so that the fanboys would know that he was using hyperbole to hype his crappy sword. Without those qoutation marks, millions of impressionable nerds would have been operating under the false hope that a futuristic super-weapon would, in fact, materialize out of thin air, only to be as disappointed in it's physical existence on this plane of reality as they were with their X-Ray Spex.

Edit to add:

Oh my sweet lord... look at this paragraph that I found lurking in the bowels of this webpage...

On condition of anonymity RazorRazor has spoken with former special forces and Delta Force personnel that have determined that the kinetic energy alone is enough to be “beyond extremely lethal”.

I was completely unaware that special forces and Delta Force personnel were moonlighting as physicists. Seriously? They expect my to believe that Delta Force sits around determining the kinetic energy necessary to be "beyond extremely lethal"? If something is beyond lethal, what does that make it? Super-lethal? So lethal that it will kill you twice? mega-lethal? We need to get some delta forcers in here to explain this to us.

Dudes, this stupid webpage/product is as fundamentally awesome in it's mall-ninjaness as Gecko45's posts were. This has brought me such intense joy. Kor, you are the man for posting this...

[Jim March]

As comical as this thing is, I have no doubt you COULD actually hurt somebody with this thing. Probably while they laughed.

Now y'all want the REAL punchline?

This thing is 100% legal in California, near as I can tell. They haven't read the law correctly...check Penal Code 12020. It bans the concealed carry of "dirks and/or daggers". Which are further defined:

Readily available stabbing implement...

What's the one thing I guaronTEE you can't do with this turkey?

Yeah. Exactly. Stab :D.

We have just located the ultimate upraised middle digit for California weapons laws.

Mind you, about five minutes after a cop sees one on the streets but they fail to convict, a bill will be filed...

:)

[Brian Dale]

Ahhh, TimboKhan beat me again with his X-Ray Specs reference. I was fi'n type: "Be sure to look for our upcoming Comic Book ads, between the SeaMonkeys and the Real, Working {cardboard} six-foot nuclear submarine."

Thanks for the laugh, Kor.

She's be sexier if she were holding a book instead of that corn knife. :p

[hso]

There have been "knife" versions of this from time to time over the past decade. They were actually sharp and had blade lengths under 8 inches. They never went anywhere, except into the maker's/designer's garage.

This thing is interesting only because of it's absurdity.

[wuchak]

I'm waiting to see what's next. They say,"We are conducting experiment with various BeltSword Systems as a complete weapon platform. It will be capable of holding multiple weapons with simultaneous deployment. It will be better that a science fiction movie!"

It looks like it would make a decent gunbelt. Or at least it wouldn't roll under the weight of a holster.

[feedthehogs]

Didn't make it past the opening page with the chick holding the sword before my "CRAP" alert kicked in.

It seems the web designer knows the dateless male species and what appeals to them.:barf:

[MASTEROFMALICE]

If only it put out an expanding rotational cone of Ny-Trilium Tungsten patricles.

If it did that we could all get rid of our Extreme Shock ammo.

I just started watching the videos.........Jesus Christ Almighty. Has God truly forsaken us?

Is it my imagination, or did the "Martial Arts Technique" look very similar to baton twirling?

[hso]

Hype of the highest order is what these folks seek to get the hapless customer to plonk down hard cash for things like this. These folks decided to go with the lowest common denominator for marketing though.

Anybody wanna bet they won't be at Blade in Atlanta this year?

[Kor]

from da RazorMan, hisself - probably sent to previous posters, reproduced here for the benefit of new readers.

RazorMan
New Member


Join Date: 05-30-08
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 0 BeltSwords

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to thank everyone for the interest they expressed in the BeltSword System. I noticed some had expressed trepidations. (My background is in the art of Eskrima)

In a very humble way; perhaps I could share some experiences. On May 21st, 2008 a friend of mine was scheduled to teach edged weapon training at Fort McCoy to SWAT teams from all over Wisconsin. (I believe the group is call the Wisconsin Tactical Officers Association) (Fort McCoy is an active military base in Wisconsin) My friend is a national Eskrima champion & edged weapon expert; he invited me to demonstrate the BeltSword System to limited number of SWAT team members. I soon had a crowd of military and SWAT team members all around me. My friend Pete said, “This group is tough to impress and they are impressed!” (I am not saying that this is a weapon system for SWAT teams…each weapon has a time and a place)

Finally at Fort McCoy I met a firearms expert from Texas that trains SWAT Team members. His remark, “no one can draw a handgun as fast as that BeltSword”. He is also an Eskrima expert and had a blast working with the various RazorSwords. (I know some of you believe you may draw your weapon faster…but we need to look at the environment. Is it a speed draw system, or is it hidden on your backside.) If you have ever been ambushed in an urban environment and you have a concealed weapon…can you deploy and use it in a split second. You can with my system. So what is your application…what is your hostile environment like…so many people think one weapon system (that they personally love) will work in all settings. We need to take into consideration the application, level of training, environment, enemy, etc.

On a hot day I can have someone walk down the street with a tank top and shorts and conceal up to a 36 inch long sword up to 2 inches wide. (This new prototype is so stiff it will thrust clear through a human target) (I know a small female about 18 years old that is an Eskrima expert…I can hide two 27 inch RazorSwords in her belt…she will “take out” a 250 pound man in a second)

Another friend of mine is former Special Operations. My friend currently works at a military installation, as a civilian, in the development of small arms. My friend has had serious combat experience and he has requested samples of the BeltSword to be tested. I know there are some of you that may think I am lying about this…if that is your feeling you need to meet me in person…because I am rather intense and also hate people that lie.

Please study the Tai Chi Sword; it is much more like a “noodle” than any of my RazorSwords. In fact the RazorSword is rather stiff as compared to a Tai Chi Sword. (My next series of RazorSwords will be very thick and designed for martial arts experts) In the hands of an expert a Tai Chi Sword will get you that meeting with God, “real quick”.

The weapons experts that personally meet me and see an actual demonstration are all impressed with the BeltSword System. Please review some of the current Asian Special Forces you will see some carry sword type weapons and prefer them to side arms in close quarter battle.

We should all take the Highroad and refrain from disparaging comments until we actually use a product and understand the purpose for which it was created.


E-Mail BeltSwords@wi.rr.com

Respectfully, Curtis W. Koehler (Inventor of the BeltSword)

Again, discuss amongst yourselves...

[ArfinGreebly]

I noticed some had expressed trepidations.
Well, you are talking to a reasonably mature, fairly socially conservative bunch, and your intro piece is a busty topless chick "deploying" the sword.

Probably well calculated for a younger, more testosterone-driven audience, but I have to say my first reaction is skeptical -- in large part due to the "medium" of presentation.

That doesn't automatically mean the sword is junk, but it does mean you've established a marketing bias that you must now overcome in order to prove the product.

So I guess it's kind of down to whatever your objective is and who it is you consider to be your target audience.

[JShirley]

Well, as was mentioned in a thread in this forum within the last couple of days, private messages are usually just that, private. However, if many members have received a communication (I'm guessing), I suppose that gives up any reasonable expectation of privacy from the sender.

Here (http://www.indiavideo.org/kerala/arts/martial-art/kalarippayattu/warriors-encounter-using-urumi-254.php)is link to some Indians with urumi flexible swords.

[JShirley]

Guys, keep it clean and non-sexist. We want to encourage everyone here, not just those with Y chromosomes.

[Vonderek]

(This new prototype is so stiff it will thrust clear through a human target)
:eek::what::rolleyes:
I wonder where the testing ground was and who the unfortunate "target" was!!

[JTW Jr.]

I recieved the same "blanket" PM.

Reminds me alot of CS and Dork Ops marketing campaings ( just my opinion ).

Now if you could only pull off covert deanimations with it...

The old saying " when it looks too good to be true it usually is " seems to certainly apply.

The exact steel used , never mentioned , heat treat , never mentioned. The stuff someone who is seriously looking to find out about something used to defend themself , never mentioned. That all adds up to " Hype ".

Just for grins , I showed it to my kids ages 5- 15 ( not the clips with the topless model ) , each of them felt someone was watching far too much anime.

[JTW Jr.]

I wonder where the testing ground was and who the unfortunate "target" was!!

perhaps it happened upon doing a speed " resheath " . ;)

[ScottyT]

PLEASE post "Work Warnings" on posts like this!

It is only by sheer luck that nobody walked by and saw a nekkid chick with a sword on my screen!

[Don Gwinn]

I think a lot of of us may have gotten that private message. I did.

I'm not sure why it was sent as a PM; the inventor hasn't used the forum before and may have thought he was hitting one of those "reply to this post" links.

I don't want to get bogged down in personal attacks, but I have a few thoughts:

1. I still very much doubt that there's a police or military unit in the U.S. paying much attention to this.

2. I have no doubt that people who study Filipino knife/sword systems think this thing is really neat. I just have no use for it.

3. The mostly-naked girl holding the sword as if she's afraid to drop it is not helping the cause.

4. The hyperbole is not helping the cause.

5. The inventor's reference to people who don't accept his statements "coming to see him in person" because he's "intense" and "hates people who lie" could be taken a couple of ways. Is he saying he's so charismatic that if you met him in person, you'd no longer doubt him? Or is he making a threat?

[JShirley]

NSFW!!!

= Not Safe For Work.

[JShirley]

From Mr. Koehler:

The material depending upon size and length is either 1075 or 1095 high carbon spring steel.

Harndess HRC of 54-57.

[#shooter]

This is all I could think of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMeooVB3olE

[Valkman]

I'd get one but I fear knocking off my CCW badge while deploying. Besides, I'm already getting that Dark Ops knife that cuts through helo canopies and "is a bar fight deterrent in third world locales". LOL

[ilcylic]

Oi. Man, even if this thing is as cool as claimed, the ad copy is ridiculously overblown. I guess this is what the Monster Truck Rally announcer does for his day job, when it's not SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!

[MASTEROFMALICE]

I got the same PM.

His remark, “no one can draw a handgun as fast as that BeltSword”.

If he has an unfortunate fool willing to test out the "21 foot rule" I'll have waivers drawn up.

I'm confident enough in my skill.

I guess this is what the Monster Truck Rally announcer does for his day job, when it's not SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!

Five dollars buys you the whole seat BUT YOU'LL ONLY NEED THE EDGE!!!

[JTW Jr.]

The material depending upon size and length is either 1075 or 1095 high carbon spring steel.

Harndess HRC of 54-57.

Thanks for that , if it was on the website , I missed it somehow.

I am also curious about the " rounded " edge they speak of. Wondering if perhaps their terminology is off and they are actually meaning a convex edge ??

Just for giggles I tried to get some 1/8" annealed 1095 ( 1 1/4" wide , 3 feet long) to flex enuff to simulate going around ones waist. with 1/8" I dont see it happening. Perhaps with some 1/16 thick 1095.

Perhaps we can get them to step up and do a pass around with one ?

[Jim March]

Yeah, it's insane as hell, but so are California weapons laws. I want one just so I can carry there. Besides...the pure comedy gold pulling that on a goblin would be worth every penny, and then you get the ADDED joy of watching a cop's face afterwards when he realizes that technically the thing is completely legal.

:)

(Referring to the original version, not the stiffer "mark 2".)

[ScottyT]

NSFW!!!
= Not Safe For Work.

Now you tell me.... :banghead:

One of these days I will know what all these frackin' acronyms mean!

[TrapperReady]

My personal favorite quote from the site:


(The RazorSword is not sold sharp and does not need to be sharp to be sharp)

[Brian Dale]

Mr. Koehler, the disparaging comments that you've read here are about your advertising. We haven't met you, nor have we used your product. Many people here, though, have the acumen to tell you that your advertising style needs work. The material at belt swords dot com is simply not effective if you wish to attract serious adults to your product.

To PM people with what reads like spam or a form letter (I got one, too) is a way to lose the chance to be taken seriously. I respectfully suggest that you use the feedback that you've received here as data from a marketing test, thus:
"Well, that ad didn't work; let's find out more about the potential market and come up with a better way to introduce our company and our product."

You've joined THR. Welcome. Please treat us as intelligent, grown human beings and become an asset here.

[JTW Jr.]

Got the specs I was looking for on the steel thickness from Razor.

Out of fairness , I will reserve final judgement for when/if I ever see/handle one in person.

Just an FYI :
Razor and I have exchanged numerous PM's this am , while his first PM was chain like , every response after that has been direct and open and he answered every question I asked.

[sm]

I too received a PM and since it was posted publicly I will respond in public.

THR is about responsible firearm ownership and part of being "responsible" is passing forward what is true and correct to not only new members, also to anyone that is a member with a question, and to those that lurk.

All any of us can truly share, is our experiences and observations.

In a serious situation, where one is in fear of life, or that of those they are responsible for, first responders are going to see and investigate the scene.

Police, Fire, EMT and witnesses are going to see, and hear this scene.
Notes, photographs, any film from surveillance cameras, or cell phones will be used to assist in investigation.

If one goes downtown, they will be photographed.
That photo goes onto the front of a folder with your case file.
Now this file goes through processes, and everyone is first going to see that photo of them after having been through an event.
Dirty, bruised, shot, knifed, blood, scraps, black eyes, matted hair from sweat, blood...

This is what anyone sees first, then open the file to see personal items, and crime scene items.

Grand Jury or Court Case, this is the drill.

Jury of one's peers, does not mean everyone is just like them.
They may be of a different political party, or not see a need for certain types of guns, or knives or any other type of defensive tool.

What a prudent person would do in this situation...
Beyond a reasonable doubt...

These words will be repeated often in a Court of Law.

I know, I have been in serious situations in fear of my life or that of another and had to do what a prudent persons would do in that situation, and beyond a reasonable doubt, I was within the law.

I have assisted in investigations, been on jury duty from local to federal level and have been the foreman of the jury.
I have been sequestered.

I have been a character witness and expert witness as well.

I have experience in a medical setting, the Main OR, and we did take photos for investigations of cuts, gun shots, blunt trauma, vaginal tears, rape kit being administered...document, document, document, including my signature along with the surgeon that removed bullets for evidence.

Problem two is real.
After a serious event, then comes the legal event.

Yes, I have had a gun pulled on me, and shots fired, more than once.
I have had edged weapons and other weapons produced as well
I have had this happen in a setting where no personal weapons were allowed.
Metal detectors, wands, subject to search, vehicle searches...
Still one has to exit vehicle, head toward that structure, and later exit structure and get back to vehicle.



You are not getting into that setting with any kind of "weapon".

My photos have been taken, from not much hurt to real damn serious.
My defensive tools were Case Peanuts, Slimline Trapper, a Legal Pad, rolled up magazine...Colt Combat Commander, Ithaca 37...car antenna.

Officers arrived after I stopped a threat against 3 youths, the 4th a driver.
I ruined my nice pants, ruined my new leather shoes, shirt ...I ruined my newer clothes.
They took a cell phone picture, got my statement, and there was no film on a surveillance camera.

I was in a NPE (non personal weapon environment), I broke off the antenna from a vehicle in the parking lot.

Yes I paid for a new antenna, no charges filed, as I was in fear of my safety, outnumbered by 3, two with knives, and one with a gun.

It was easy to read the scence in that parking lot setting, with loose gravel and other "traces" to be read, like my blood on the pavement from scraping a knee, losing a shoe, still over there...

What a prudent person would do in that situation.
I tried to evade, I had to take action, and the antenna was there.

I asked to be frisked, I wanted officers to know, I had left my vehicle "sterile" and had conducted my business in the NPE "sterile" and was in the process of returning to my vehicle "sterile" when trouble showed up.

Beyond a reasonable doubt, I did the prudent thing, and nothing came of it.
I gave the officers all the information I could to assist them.
I even viewed some mug shots later as some similar things were happening elsewhere.

This is what I can and do pass forward to THR members.
Forget the fact THR does not condone, or allow anything illegal be suggested on a public post...

I have my convictions.
I know about criminals, I know about a court of law.

Hell I get in trouble around here suggesting folks with gun, get some skill sets, so they don't even have to use the damn gun.
Forget using that knife clipped to the pocket, use a notebook, bottle of water, flower vase of a secretaries desk...

I assure you, if a person throws a bottle of water at someone and runs like hell , officers are going to view that a bit different than going rambo with a clip on knife.

You do not want problem 2.
You have to survive problem 1, my deal, is to do so, where problem 2 does not bite you in butt and really hurt you, and even work against you and for the benefit of the criminal.

Remember anything one uses to defend with, is defined as a "weapon".
Bottle of water, rolled up magazine, notebook, child's metal toy truck, broom...

Don't be hammering nails in a baseball bat, that is not what a prudent person would do.
Had the person left the baseball bat as is..."maybe" we would not have found them guilty.

Had the person used the belt and the buckle, "maybe" we would not have found them guilty.
They had attached razor blades to that belt, and that did not set well at all with the court, or us of the jury, and being foreman, I read out loud "Guilty your honor".

[Brian Dale]

"Problem 2:"

Steve's posted some important insights (I'm belaboring the obvious). I'm posting again because I didn't write anything about my reaction to the product itself. You've written about having introduced the product to military and law enforcement personnel. I can't evaluate whether they'd want it or not.

I don't.

All the best.

[CWL]

At least Razorman has taken the effort to try and address our skepticism in a mature manner, I think he was right not to post directly here since he would get pounded by the members here.

At least he took a Higher Road than Scorpion6 and that ridiculous hollowground trekker copy he was trying to hawk.

[Geronimo45]

Got the message too.

The Indian urumi looks like a different item altogether... a sort of steel whip, the way those two were using it... as far as I could tell.

Do appreciate the reasonably-worded response.

[JShirley]

Staff here are not going to let unfair abuse happen.

I don't agree with the marketing of this product, if it's supposed to be for a serious audience, and saying as much is not unfair. Personal attack is a different thing, and we all know that won't happen here.

John

[Joe Demko]

Being struck accidentally with the edge of a non-descript piece of sheet metal will split skin and muscle and notch bone. Seen it happen.
Don't know much about this device...the advertising distracts from the product rather more than otherwise...but even if it is just a piece of sheet metal cutinto a vaguely sword-like shape it is capable of inflicting wounds you wouldn't likely just laff off.
Need to know more about the product...advertising needs revamped.

[seeker_two]

One thing I've noticed is that quality products don't need near-nekkid women and flashy sales pitches to sell....quality sells itself. That's why Coors and Miller uses the former and Glenfiddich and Stoli rely on their quality....

Let your product's quality speak for itself....


(...but don't expect much in Texas sales. Illegal to carry it here.... :mad: )

[give]

looks like a piece of junk,screams mall ninja,they are going to make a fortune,lol

[RazorMan]

Please try to accept my reply in a positive light. I know that sometimes my passionate side gets the better of me.

I really mean it when I say I wish to thank everyone for their input and suggestions. I certainly need to change certain aspects on my web site. I had some younger “web guys” talk me into things that I probably should not have done. On the other hand the girl has given this site almost over-night international attention. Also the female model shows the belt and sword just because there is not much else she is wearing. So what to do??

Too much hype…probably so...as the BeltSword System does sound, “to good to be true”. But every time I demonstrate the BeltSword System people are almost in shock. Martial arts people love it, the average person is terrified. I had a GM from an auto dealer tell me he told his friends after I showed him…he said, “My friends just laughed and said it was a trick and not even possible".

If any of you invented something so out of the norm…something that has never existed on this planet; you may too decide to hype it because no one will believe you anyway.

On Friday 5.30.08 I was late picking up some supplies at Global Fasteners in New Berlin Wisconsin. I previously demonstrated the BeltSword to several people in their office. It was now just after 4:30 PM as I was pulling in and I noticed a car backing up across the entire length of the parking lot. I later found out it was there warehouse manager Joe. Why is he coming back to work…it was after work on Friday and he has better things to do. He was about to leave and saw my car pull in and thought it might be me…he did not want to miss seeing a demonstration. I am certainly humbled by the experience.

When I said I was intense I did not mean it as a threat or even that I am charismatic. I am 55 years old; God has blessed me with passion and continued vigor…even at this age and at 190 pounds I can do 25 to 28 military pull-ups and ride my bicycle 15-20 miles a day with warm weather permitting... (If you ever meet me you will know the truth for sure!)

Intense, passionate; you bet!!! I love God and country, I love my parents/family and wife. But in my entire life there are only two things that have caught my real passion. I love animals and designing new concepts.

I have had the honor to rescue and become the guardian of an American Staffordshire terrier (pit bull) that at 6 weeks old was beat up in the inner city of Milwaukee with a broken jaw. I realized I would have traded my life to protect her as she would have done for me. I am absolutely positively sure I would be in prison today if I had caught the “animal” that harmed her so badly! (After 12 years she died on 2/25/08 at 7 PM from cancer)

The second is this weapon system. I have spent a lot of money in its development…the funny thing even if I lost everything because of this venture it really would not be the worst. The worst is never trying. If you have passion in your life you will understand…if you don’t I feel sorry for you. "It is the journey not the destination"; as I have had the honor of meeting so many great people.

Here are the facts:
• The BeltSword allows the RazorSword to be deployed so "Lightening Fast" you will probably miss the deployment.
• You can actually deploy and strike an attacker in the same instant.
• A dull blade is more that capable of crushing your skull.
• The RazorSword sharp will cut deeper into ½ inch plywood than a machete or Samurai Sword. Why; because the thin RazorSword has little resistance and the “thick” Samurai gets stuck. (could some Samurai Swords or machetes beat my RazorSword…probably…but not by much)
• The material is 1075 or 1095 special tempered and hardened high carbon spring steel. I order about 1.5 miles of steel at a time that is made custom for me at an HRC of 54-57.
• I have a friend of mine that want to test it. (Former Special Operations—works in the development of small arms for the military)
• I have a major sporting goods chain that would like to see a “survival version”
• The system is not a pretty wall hanger; but three important things to remember…Quality, Quality, Quality!!!
• In the rare event you only believe 10% of what I have told you…you still would never want to be on the receiving end of this massive razor blade on steroids.
• I personally do believe this is a “Futuristic Super-Weapon” if you see the demo in person, perhaps you may feel the same. (I have had many people tell me this belongs in a major motion picture)

Finally I live in Milwaukee and someone from your group must know a former military or weapons expert type living in Wisconsin or the Milwaukee area. I challenge you to have someone meet me and I will demonstrate the weapon in front of them. I will pay your representative 100.00 cash to spend 5 minutes with me and to report back to you. I am not offering the $100 to be a smart ass; I am doing it to pay for someone's time.

Call me at 414-303-3000 or e-mail me at BeltSwords@wi.rr.com

Intensely Respectful, Curtis W. Koehler

[Brian Dale]

Mr. Koehler, ...there are only two things that have caught my real passion. I love animals and designing new concepts. That puts you on our good side right there.

1075 and 1095 are good. It's just--relax, OK?

I'm a word geek; I worked hard for years to become one. In your last post, you almost wrote, {I suggested a typo correction here for RazorMan} There; fixed it.

Really: Welcome to the High Road. Relax and be a part of the community.

[RazorMan]

Regarding the beer ads I understand you point of view; however sex does work in advertising. The beer people have used half naked women for years and have been criticized for it.

Half naked men and women get attention and even negative attention may be good.

Look at this crazy photo…you think the BeltSword web site is nuts; take a look at this national company Abercrombie & Fitch at their web site.

http://www.abercrombie.com/anf/index.html

[Brian Dale]

Regarding the beer ads I understand you point of view; however sex does work in advertising.The beer people have used half naked women for years and have been criticized for it. I agree that that approach sells beer; furthermore, Abercrombie sells a lot of clothing to twentysomethings.

In the case of your company and your product: who is your target audience?

[feedthehogs]

Theres a big difference between trying to sell food or clothing and trying to sell a weapon that is to be used to save your life.

Your on the right track though if your trying to sell to the same group who buys throwing stars, numchucks, spiked arm bands and the such for bedroom play.

As someone who takes his self defense with a life or death attitude, you could have the best product in the world and I'd never even look past the ad copy because I'd equate it with the above group. Products that aren't even worth the shipping costs and certainly something I would never consider a life saving device.

[JShirley]

Mr. Koehler,

Thanks for posting.

I don't want your money, and I'm not in Milwaukee, but I would be happy to do a review of your sword. I have a background in Japanese sword work, and have collected kukuris for some years, so I'm a fan of big, powerful blades.

Alternatively, I'm sure hso would be happy to review your product as well. Shipping to/from would be more than generous, and we'll speak the truth- good, bad, or indifferent- for free.

Please PM if you're interested.

Regards,

John Shirley

[RazorMan]

I will be defining my market as we proceed. Perhaps my market will find me?

I guess the first it to get attention and to create a site that has some entertainment value. After all we should have some fun. Personally I continue to enjoy that scantly clothed model pulling the RazorSword from her belt. (Thank goodness my wife has a good sense of humor-especially during the filming)

Next to build trust and credibility.

Somewhere at some point a weapons expert will buy one of the BeltSwords and he or she will post the quality yet simplicity of the BeltSword System.

It will take that third party person or a camera at a convenience of someone being attacked. Then a RazorSword literally "Dis-Arms" their attacker. Unfortunately for the attacker their finger prints will be left on the floor still attached to their hand.

No matter what I do people will tend to be skeptical. Human nature! People did not like the light bulb at first either.

Plus how many of us have been ripped-off by something that appeared to be good.

If you build the best mouse-trap people will eventually beat a path to your door. I believe that!

Again thanks to everyone...it is time for me to ride my bicycle.

[RazorMan]

FYI

I will send a sample out for trial.

[wuchak]

He's just using the pretty girl like Dillon does with the presses and Kahr does with their guns in the "Thin is in" ads. Nothing wrong with some hot girls in ads. Much better than old guys with beer bellies in flannel. : )

[Jason_G]

RazorMan, you can see a nipple in that clip. I don't know if you knew that or not. Thought I'd bring it to your attention in case.

Best,
Jason

[RazorMan]

I believe the nip is actually covered with a Band-Aid. It just looks real.

RazorMan

[Rupestris]

RazorMan,

I believe I owe you an apology.

While your website seems a bit over-the-top and I posted the ROTFL pic on page one, you have shown that you are are a true gentleman. By explaining to the masses here at THR your business plan and handling this in a most tactful way, you have indeed taken "The High Road".

While your product doesn't suit my needs and is not legal in my home state, I wish you the best in your endeavors.

Next to build trust and credibility.

You've built some credibility by not taking the criticism the wrong way. I look forward to any new products you might have in mind.

Chris

[hso]

NOTE: Now that Curt is a member at THR he should be given the full consideration of any other member at THR.

[MASTEROFMALICE]

There are a couple of points of interest:

(I know a small female about 18 years old that is an Eskrima expert…I can hide two 27 inch RazorSwords in her belt…she will “take out” a 250 pound man in a second)

Granted, somewhere in the world is that fabled "Navy SEAL" who can kill you with just his thumb. But the vast majority of fighting "experts" simply don't live up to the hype (there's a bar in Waikiki that can testify that the SEALs aren't as immortal as they'd like you to think.

The purchase of this sword will not make you superhuman. The adage "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" still applies here.

Take your Escrima expert on one side and take a Rob Leatham-type expert on the other side, and Rob is going to be eating Cheerios for breakfast tomorrow and your Escrima expert is going to be injected with formaldehyde tomorrow.

An "expert" at anything should be able to whoop your standard shmoe. That is the whole reason they're an expert.

I'm no expert with firearms even thought I've been shooting for 25 years. I'm no expert even though I was NRA qualified as an Expert smallbore shooter when I was 17, the Marine Corps gave me a badge which declares me a Rifle Expert, and below my name-plate on my police uniform is a small pin which says "EXPERT". Do you know what these things mean? They mean I can hit a static target in training.

How much combat has this 18 year old female actually seen? The title expert is thrown around a lot but earned by few. When she kills an infantry squad with a giant foam "We're #1" pointy finger, send us the video and we'll evaluate her expertise.

(I have had many people tell me this belongs in a major motion picture)

Off the wall backflip double kicks belong in major motion pictures, but that doesn't make them viable tools in real life.

The truth is, I look at this as more of a novelty item, at best. My prediction: They'll never be adopted by the military (who is having a hard enough time accepting that the M9 should be ditched), there is no credible police agency that will ever adopt it (you may find a couple of bubba deputies from backwoods Screwball, Tenn. that may make it part of their equipment) and will forever be viewed in the same light at the Balisong. The Balisong has a few die-hard supporters who show you flips and throws and swear they're the greastest things on planet Earth. The rest of look and say, "Gee that's neat" then go ahead and open our Benchmades.

Like Hso said, you're a member now, but you're still going to get the same consideration that anyone else would get who was making these outlandish. claims.

[Joe Demko]

The Balisong has a few die-hard supported who show you flips and throws and swear they're the greastest things on planet Earth. The rest of look and say, "Gee that's neat" then go ahead and open our Benchmades.

Bali-songs are a good design. A well-made balisong is second only to a fixed blade in strength. Flipping them and spinning them falls into the same category as twirling a revolver i.e. entertaining stunts that some people perform with them don't lessen their real world utility.


Oh and BTW, it might interest you to know that Benchmade originally got their start as "Bali-Song Inc." Guess what they made? Guess (http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=BM32BK) what (http://www.securityprousa.com/be4ba.html) they (http://www.defenseknife.com/bm40tr.html) still (http://www.smokesign.com/be4batbltiha.html) make (http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=BM32S)?:scrutiny:

[RazorMan]

In the end this may only be a novelty. I have a lot to learn!

I have to tell you; I feel very secure when I get fuel at a (high crime area) gas station with the BeltSword on than without it. I know any attacker looking at the RazorSword will run for the hills. Could they pull a handgun…sure but that could happen anyway. I would rather go down with a fighting chance.

Perhaps I am part romantic…is the sword a partial reflection into a person’s soul? May I be worthy to be its guardian...always respect its power and learn from the reflection of others.

All in all life should be an adventure. The people we meet and the contributions we make to this world.

As a side note: All I know...I feel extremely secure wearing it…and if it makes me feel that good...well? The only personal concealed weapon that beats the BeltSword is a handgun…and you better not miss. You can patch a bullet hole in my arm…a sword cutting flesh, arteries, and bone…difficult to stitch-up and put an arm back on. A gun totting bandit better hit me with a large caliber weapon at “center of mass” and even then I may have 5-10 seconds left in me. That’s all I need.

The history of the sword goes back thousands of years to mankind’s struggle to achieve a civilized society. I guess that is part of the alluring aspect to a weapon that is actually part of two worlds…who we have been and who we are today. Holding a piece of that past…that feeling…that connection…that which makes me come alive.

May I always live with and share that passion.

[Joe Demko]

Your choices in advertising aside, I do have a question about your product. I wear a belt to hold my pants up and to support the weight of a concealed handgun. It appears that the belt sword can't be deployed if it is threaded through all the belt loops on a pair of jeans. It looked in the one video like you skipped the ones in front. So, would I have to wear a beltsword over top of the belt I already wear in order to have it available while still keeping my pants and holster in place?

[redneckrepairs]

Ill just say welcome to THR RazorMan. Your site created quite a stur and an entertaining thread , Your product however well made is not for me tho LOL . Ill stick with my pistol and a folding knife for ccw . Best of luck on your venture tho .

[owen]

Razorman,

If you think that draw is faster than a pistol draw, I respectfully submit that you have never seen a trained pistolero.

I'm not particulary fast, but at 10 yards, I can have 3 shots (body 2x, head 1x) on target in about 2 seconds.

Also, your whole Prowler vs Steel Cable anecdote is specious. I submit that any 15 ton (30 ton loaded) object at 500+ mph will cut any 1.5" steel cable, even if its a cube of butter. The rounded edge of the wing has nothing to do with it.

[JShirley]

If it works out, I should have one of these in a couple of weeks.

I assure you I will time vs. CCF presentation, if the sword appears useful.

Now, I'll encourage everyone to wait on the speculation till I have a chance to wring one of these out. I'll be sure Mr. Koehler is okay with me actually using this on stuff before I receive one.

John

[Brian Dale]

Geographical note: Curt lives in Wisconsin, one of the two remaining states which completely forbid regular citizens to carry concealed handguns. You're all wise enough to skip telling him to "just carry a handgun instead."

I don't know what Wisconsin law says about swords.

[TrapperReady]

In Wisconsin, from Levine's site:


Updated March 6, 2007

Wisconsin - 941.24. Possession of switchblade knife. (1)
Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports,
purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a
blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other
device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or
movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor...
[Note: the wording of this statute is different from all other state
switchblade statutes.]

Wisconsin - 941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.
Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a
concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A
misdemeanor.

Wisconsin Case Law:

To "go armed" does not require going anywhere. The elements
for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the
defendant's person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of
the weapon's presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

Judges are not peace officers authorized to carry concealed weapons.
69 Atty. Gen. 66.


I can't imagine that you wouldn't get charged if caught carrying one of those around.

FWIW, I have a lot of respect for the inventor's creativity and motives, and I'm very happy with his level of interaction on THR. That said, I'm not a fan of the advertising methods and don't see the real utility in the product. As a novelty item (and there's nothing wrong with that), it's kind of interesting.

[RazorMan]

Re: Joe Demko; correct the system is designed to miss the front two belt loops. I have not had any problem missing the front loops and keeping the belt in place. I would guess (no guarantees) that your duty belt should stay at or about your waist without any upward movement. The back loops keep the belt in place. With a shorter blade 24” to 29” you will only miss the front left loop and the front right loop may be threaded. This should keep everything in place. The longer the RazorSword the farther to the right side it will go.

Re: Owen you are correct if the handgun is in a typical holster. Place a handgun concealed behind a long sleeve shirt and see if you can deploy it as fast as the BeltSword. In the end it really is who reacts faster…all I know the RazorSword will never jam and never run out of bullets and it is cool.

Re Owen: The idea of any airplane wing cutting a thick steel cable is exactly my point and you proved it for me. Kinetic energy, a rounded steel dull blade will inflict bone crushing injury. I witnessed a 135 small man beat the heck out of a 225 giant. The 135 pound guy was a boxer and the big guy was not. The speed of his little hands beat the big guy. The bottom line, unless you carry a gun everywhere the BeltSword is a very comfortable alternative and one minor hit from this weapon may arrange that meeting with the Almighty. Besides that handgun is so “dog-gone” loud…if I am going to eliminate a bad guy I would rather do it quick and quite...as a ghost.

TrapperReady: There was a pizza delivery person in Milwaukee that was carrying a handgun and shot an attacker. The DA’s office told him if you carry a weapon again we will charge you with CCW. About one year later he again shot an attacker and was subsequently charged with carrying a concealed weapon. It went all the way to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. The court sided with the pizza delivery person. Basically it was his God given right of self preservation. Good call!!!

I believe our founding fathers would laugh at some court telling U.S. citizens that we cannot protect ourselves. My choice; I will obey Gods law and protect my family. If I go to prison…so be it…after all this country was founded upon those that broke the laws of England. I am not saying to become a vigilante.

Never Prey…Never! “To create fear in those that prey upon the fearful.”

You say I could go to prison and lose my freedom…if I surrender to the street thugs, lying politicians, and ridiculous court decisions; I have already lost my freedom. At least this way I will do it on my terms…that is the American way...the American spirit…of have we forgotten.

“From my cold dead hands”

[TrapperReady]

Razorman - I also live in WI, and have followed many of the pertinent cases. There's no doubt that things are looking better for us; however, there is also a big grey area where you can be charged.

As I understand things right now, it probably falls into the "positive defense" category, where you probably won't be charged if you are carrying concealed but have to defend yourself. But, we are a long way from being able to legally carry concealed weapons.

Frankly, if I was going to take the risk of carry concealed, I'd opt for something more conventional and proven than a belt sword.

[H088]

Could you post a video of the sword being deployed faster, as well as a video of the sword striking objects?

Unless you can hit a target straight on it looks like the sword will bend and the strike will be more of a slap then a slice.

[JShirley]

Mr. Koehler and I are talking about this. I assure you I will attempt to cut or otherwise deform targets, and not just slap them to death.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

The material is 1075 or 1095 special tempered and hardened high carbon spring steel. I order about 1.5 miles of steel at a time that is made custom for me at an HRC of 54-57.


So you have each sword shipped to you machined and ready?



Do you do the stock removal on each piece of metal?

[Don Gwinn]

Mr. Koehler, keep in mind that we don't allow anyone to advocate illegal activity here. Not that you've exactly advocated anything illegal so far, but I know when I read that bit about how you want to take out criminals "quiet, like a ghost" my first thought was "Now why would that matter?"

Other than that, I'll wait to see what John has to say when he's used the weapon.

[RazorMan]

I buy about 1.5 to 2 miles of hardened strip spring steel in coils 1.5 inches wide. It is then shipped to a production facility where it is cut to size, and finished. There is actually no metal reduction; rather just cutting to size and the katana point is cut at a 22 degree angle.

I have spent a lot of time and money on research and equipment like dies to stamp the belts, dies to stamp the containment clips…special made to order barrel nuts and matching screws, etc.

Everything is overbuilt to take a beating. Example: each containment clip is so strong you can stand on it and stamp on it with a boot and not harm it. I am sure if you keep it up for an extended period you may begin to bend it.

Now that I think of it I will run one over with my car and see what happens. The containment clips are tempered spring steel that are attached to the belt and holds the RazorSword in place.

In the end it does not cost that much more to make an incredibility strong product. Most of what I make is from Wisconsin. (We have the best cheese too) I will leave the junk(s) in China.

[Brian Dale]

Now that I think of it I will run one over with my car and see what happens. Hey, that's how I think, too. :uhoh:

I like your style! :DNow, I'll encourage everyone to wait on the speculation till I have a chance to wring one of these out. I'll be sure Mr. Koehler is okay with me actually using this on stuff before I receive one. John, I'm guessing that he's going to say Yes. ;)

[RyanM]

Just a couple off-the-cuff impressions.

Advertizing is way over-the-top. Excessive hype is one of the reasons why I tend to stay away from Cold Steel products, despite their decent reputation. For an as-yet untested, unproven product, with about 20 times more hype, you can probably imagine my overall impression.

Also, I'd say the price is probably pretty high for your intended market. I realize prices on everything are going up, but you can still get a servicable "real," truly "battle-ready" sword for about $150, maybe a bit less, if you know what manufacturers are good at that price point. And those are swords made out of the same quality material, but considerably more of it, and several times more labor put into them.

I'm not going to pretend to know how much it costs you to make them, and how much you have to charge to keep a roof over your head, but to me, the value of such a product is about $40-50 tops. And that's only if they get decent reviews.

Other than that, the concept doesn't seem that outlandish to me. A thin piece of metal will ruin your day easily, and it looks like they're tempered well enough to not take a set from being wrapped around your waist.

Actual practicality, I'll wait for the review. I might be interested in testing one, actually, if you want the opinion of someone with only minimal training in blade-related martial arts.

[JShirley]

Guys,

This is probably going to take a couple of weeks. I will post a new thread as soon as testing can begin.

Peace,

John

[AJ Dual]

Involved with the WCCA as I am, and taking a grain of salt, and with the rather large caveat that I am not a lawyer, I would say this definitely would violate Sec 941.23 of WI state law concerning concealed deadly weapons.

And at least with a handgun and an otherwise clean record, it would seem that right now most state DA's are aware of the potential for sending up more pro-carry case law to the State Supreme court and are giving otherwise "clean" violators of 941.23 with handguns the kid-glove treatment.

I think anything perceived as being so off the beaten path as a concealed spring sword in your belt would strip the WI carrier of what tenuous protection he/she has under the current "Supreme Court/Vermont Carry balance of terror", and the actual affirmative defense in the last decision handed down that we currently have in WI.

But I applaud innovation. And with the right marketing to be taken more seriously, you might do well enough to make a profit on your product. Good word of mouth with forums like this is an excellent start. And being willing to engage us as you have is the way to do it.

Best of luck to you.

[nwilliams]

Razorman....

Have you taken this concept over to the folks of www.swordforum.com yet? I have been a member over there for almost a decade now and know you'd get a lot of good feedback and maybe some business by some of the members over there. As an avid sword collector for many years I'm always interested in new blades and concepts and I think your idea while extravagant is also very interesting and inventive. If you havent done so yet introduce yourself on the swordfourm site and tell everyone upfront who you are, and what you're all about. Welcome to THR and don't take any negative comments the wrong way, your invention obviously isn't going to appeal to everyone but I think you have a marketable item there and I wish you the best with new product and hope you see some good profits from it!

-Nate

[Okiecruffler]

I almost hate to wake this one back up, but I was watching Shanghi Noon yesterday (I'm a Jackie Chan fan, so sue me) and at one point the bad guy pulls a belt sword. Was just wondering if maybe this was one of these belt swords.

[Eleven Mike]

Being struck accidentally with the edge of a non-descript piece of sheet metal will split skin and muscle and notch bone. Seen it happen....even if it is just a piece of sheet metal cutinto a vaguely sword-like shape it is capable of inflicting wounds you wouldn't likely just laff off.

I have a scar that can attest to that. Eight stitches.

[Devonai]

The RazorSword sharp will cut deeper into ½ inch plywood than a machete or Samurai Sword. Why; because the thin RazorSword has little resistance and the “thick” Samurai gets stuck. (could some Samurai Swords or machetes beat my RazorSword…probably…but not by much)

What your product can do to plywood does not interest me. What I would like to see is your product used in traditional Tameshigiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tameshigiri). Until then put me in the skeptic category.

[Landlocked Pirate]

After clicking on the link at work and catching a quick glimpse, can I now assume (too late) that "Not Safe For Work" means "not safe to look at on company computers"?

[JShirley]

Curt should be in GA next week. Testing will be for usability and practicality (ie, time/space needed to present).

Testing is tentatively to be held in Statesboro, so Derek can provide photographic proof. :)

John

[Brian Dale]

Cool. Thanks for the update, John.

[JShirley]

No problem.

I'm fine with Curt being there, but I didn't tell the specific tests we would do, just so he couldn't bring "ringers" designed especially for certain tasks.

Other than perhaps for short guys with 34" waists and 6' guys with 45" waists! :D

[Brian Dale]

:what:

Dude...clarity is all. You mean that the "short guys with 34" waists and 6' guys with 45" waists" will be using the swords, right?

Devonai's "traditional Tameshi giri" reference brought some unpleasant images to mind. :uhoh:

Well, maybe I don't need to know that. I'll wait for your report. ;)

[JShirley]

Doh!

Er, yeah. "For use by..." :o