[GigaBuist]

Okay, hit the range early this evening to see just what kind of patterns I'd get out of my Saiga 20 gauge.

Range: 15 yards
Load: Remington Express #3 Buck

The paper you're looking at is 18x24". The thing behind it is one of my end tables.

I stuck a little Shoot-n-See sticker in the middle of the pages to give me a good aiming point.

http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_1_sm.jpg
High-Res Version (http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_1.jpg)

http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_2_sm.jpg
High-Res Version (http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_2.jpg)

http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_3_sm.jpg
High-Res Version (http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_3.jpg)

http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_4_sm.jpg
High-Res Version (http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_4.jpg)

http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_5_sm.jpg
High-Res Version (http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_5.jpg)

For the last target I loaded up with 5 rounds and let 'em fly.
http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_5shots_sm.jpg
High-Res Version (http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/images/saiga_20_patterns/saiga_patt_5shots.jpg)

I think I'll be hunting for a load that patterns far tighter than this before I even think about using it for HD.

[SN13]

LOL

I took my S-12 trap shooting. I shot 23/25 (Sorry i'm bragging but I've only been 5 times to the trap range ever) with my 29.5" full/mod O/U and 15/25 with the S-12...

That being said, the Saiga is not a long distance tight-patterning gun with NO-CHOKE and a 19" barrel. Try some Remington Sluggers though (Rifled 2 3/4") I can hit a 6" square at 100yrds 90% of the time.... It LOVES slugs.

To shoot good patterns, consider getting a set of Chokes from HERE: (http://www.saigastock.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25&zenid=8d587e8f5cb5ddf48ceda4a5fdc42ac5)

The Polychoke will give you every option and only one choke to worry about.


BUT!!!! For HD? I mean at 12' you're gonna do a nice spread on the target! LOL!

Seriously though, I understand why you'd be weary... hitting innocent bystanders through a wall because of a large pattern = bad..... but then again, if you didn't want ANY spread, shoot a slug, and if you're really worried about HD, Load the mag like this:

1 - 7 1/2 Shot (No over penetration because of a miss, but at under 20' i wouldn't want to be hit by it)

2 - #4 Buck (ESCALATE THE PAIN!)

3 - 00 Buck (If they're still coming after 2, chances are they're close enough not to miss!)

4 & 5 - Slug (Last resort of desperation... might as well have all the power possible [Forgive me, I don't own an s20 so I can't remember if they have 4rd or 5rd mags standard])

[GigaBuist]

BUT!!!! For HD? I mean at 12' you're gonna do a nice spread on the target! LOL!

Heh, agreed, but it's a long ranch house here. 15 yards is the distance from my bedroom door to the door coming in off the garage. I figure it's the the most likely unauthorized entry point, so I want to make sure whatever I'm using has a tight enough pattern at that distance.

I'm just going to try and run this same patterning test out every week or two with a new #3 Buck load and post the results. Should be interesting.

If anybody has suggestions on a 20 gauge #3 Buck load that might work for me (think 8" spread at 15 yards) lemme know. I'll see if I can get my hands on some and run it.

[CWL]

At 15 yards, my 870 and Beretta shotguns firing Federal reduced recoil 00 buck has a spread of an opened handswidth.

I don't plan on changing my HD shotgun after seeing this comparison.

[sm]

GigaBuist,

I see we share the same great taste in pattern paper. *big smile*

Thank you for posting your results.
I am not familiar with the Saiga, so forgive me for asking, still for the benefit of us all:

-SN13 posted this gun has No Choke, is this correct?
From his post I gather this gun does not have a screw in choke and therefore is a fixed cylinder bore, is this also true?


I wish there was someone that had a Stan Baker Bore Diameter tool to measure this complete barrel, now my curiosity is peaked.
No disrespect, still I have to wonder if Saiga took into consideration loadings for this barrel.

Even Police "cylinder bore" often have a point or two of choke.


Pattern that gun with quality Target Loads in #9 or #8 shot , as one would shoot for skeet, and pattern it a 21 steps/yards.
Repeat at 10 steps/yards
I am curious about forcing cone, bore dia, and how that gun is choked.
I want to "read the paper" *grin*

Remington #3 buckshot, is a good load and patterns real well from a number of guns I and mine use.
My Youth H&R single shot, 20 ga, with fixed modified, will toss some really tight and impressive patterns with that load at 15 yards.
So will the other guns like mine, and the fixed Skeet choked barrels on various shotguns.

Try the Federal #3 buckshot.
Stay with 2 3/4" shells ( I don't know if that gun has a 3" chamber.

For slugs, Rem, Fed and if you can find some 2 3/4" Brenneke, try those.

I do not blame you for feeling a bit down, you were expecting more.
I commend you for testing and finding out.

You know about this, and this chart is handy or others to see-
http://www.colonialarms.com/chokespecs.html

20 ga bore is .617

Skeet 1 adds 4 points of choke [POC], many of the old Police cylinder barrels, when measured with the Stan Baker tool I mentioned had 2 POC, some even had 3 and 4.

This in one of the reasons I and other suggest no whacking off a barrel and losing choke,and ending up with "open bore".
We want choke, even if only a few poc's.

There is a "thing going on" when one gets b/t 7 and 15 POCs on a 20 bore, and how it does wunnerful things with buckshot and slugs.

Each barrel is different, still there is a sweet spot.

My gut says that barrel would shine with 10 - 12 POC, with both #3 buck and off the rack slugs like Remington.

Thanks for sharing, and do keep us informed.

Steve

[SN13]

Standard Saigas that have the exterior threads (Covered by a thread protector) are NOT choked... Saigastock.com stocks the screw on chokes for it.

The threads are external, not internal. But you can get a poly, mod, or full for the 12 & 20, (Don't know about the .410)

I'd run a comparison of the S20 vs another shotgun using the same ammo.... I've had buckshot that was awful, and some that was really accurate.

Visit Saiga-12.com/forums and ask a question on the S-20 subforum. Chances are, one of them knows the answer. (Registration is free and there's no spam-mail)

[GigaBuist]

Pattern that gun with quality Target Loads in #9 or #8 shot , as one would shoot for skeet, and pattern it a 21 steps/yards.
Repeat at 10 steps/yards
I am curious about forcing cone, bore dia, and how that gun is choked.
I want to "read the paper" *grin*

Take a shotgun to the range and shoot it? Shucks... twist my arm a little more.

Sounds like fun. I'm in.

And yeah, there's no choke on the barrel... at least none marked on the barrel.

[Eric-WA]

I wish there was someone that had a Stan Baker Bore Diameter tool to measure this complete barrel, now my curiosity is peaked.
No disrespect, still I have to wonder if Saiga took into consideration loadings for this barrel.

I can bring my Saiga 20 to work on monday and swing by the Stan Baker shop on the way home if your that curious. They're good guys and wouldn't mind testing it for me.

[sm]

Thanks everyone for the replies!
I am getting educated and having fun at the same time.

Gig,
<twist arm> Yeah, you gotta shoot your gun, because you didn't post pictures of it on teh Intrawebz. *wink*
[Ya'll knew I was going to get tacky sooner or later didn't ya?]

Gig has a tool [Saiga] for his ranch house setting.
Initial investigation and verification did not make him feel comfy.

Saiga is a fine tool, still as "we" keep harping about around here, one has to test their gun, for their environment, which Gig is to be commended for doing.

It does not matter what kind of gun, what a barrel is marked, what a choke is marked, what a box of ammo says, or what anyone else on Internet says...
You have to test your gun to know.

This is great!
Now if we could just pass out axe handles so we could hit folks up the side of the head to pay attention , they might learn something from Gig, this thread and apply to their gun.


Oh...if there is a extra Stan Baker tool laying around nobody wants, I want it.
*wishful thinking*

This thread is great! You don't get stuff like this off American Idiot or Brady Bunch site.