Shotgun Red Dot


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Smith
May 30, 2008, 02:01 AM
Do Red Dot or other holographic type scopes go well with shotguns?

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pbhome71
May 30, 2008, 05:11 AM
Smith,

I have tried a red-dot on my Mossburg 590. It works ok.

I took it off because:
a) I can not get good cheek weld. This meant I could not point it properly when using red-dot
b) with the red-dot, the shotgun won't fit the gun case that I have. I had to get a bigger one.

Gunsby_Blazen
May 30, 2008, 06:11 AM
What type of shotgun is it???
Burris makes a red-dot for shotguns that are not supposed to effect cheek weld. Its called a Speedbead. What it is a FastFire with a shotgun mount. I have a FastFire and its a good little sight.
Here is a picture and a link for you.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/speedbead.html

http://www.burrisoptics.com/images/speedbead_sideview.jpg

Dave McCracken
May 30, 2008, 10:01 AM
Not in my experience. Nothing is faster than a bead. With the P word(Practice), a bead works as far as the shotgun's effective range, and that includes with slugs.

A shotgun needs a red dot like submarines need parachutes.

M2 Carbine
May 30, 2008, 11:20 AM
I used Red Dots on my HD shotguns for years, still do on some. My HD including some 40-50 yards around the house.

Like when it's too dark to see your pistol sights, it's too dark to see your shotgun sights.
With the Red Dot in the dark I've easily shot critters that I wouldn't have had a chance to hit otherwise..

I've found that for long shots using slugs, I do a lot better with the Red Dot than using a shotgun bead.

Now days I've mostly gone to a bead or rifle sights during the day and a Streamlight TLR-2 laser/light for darkness.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/870stockTLR2.jpg

But I still keep a Red Dot on my PGO shotgun for long shots.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/IthacawithTLR2andBSA.jpg

Cowley93
May 30, 2008, 11:21 AM
I put a red dot on my Mossy 500 for one purpose; aimed shots with slugs when hunting. I put a cheek riser on the stock and with that it works pretty well. By the way, it is NOT my HD gun.

Smith
May 30, 2008, 01:08 PM
That SpeedBead thing looks pretty cool. Thanks for all the opinions!

pbhome71
May 30, 2008, 06:35 PM
I've found that for long shots using slugs, I do a lot better with the Red Dot than using a shotgun bead.


Yes, for me, I agree with that statement.

ArmedBear
May 30, 2008, 06:42 PM
Nothing is faster than nothing. When shooting fast-moving targets with a shotgun, you don't really even use the bead, consciously anyway.

Burris wants to sell people on the idea that they can buy their way into hitting birds, and that's just plain BS.

Now with slugs, or for turkey, squirrels in dark woods, etc., it might work quite well.

Gord
May 30, 2008, 06:49 PM
But I still keep a Red Dot on my PGO shotgun for long shots.

Okay, I gotta ask - of all the shotguns you might put a red dot on for "long shots," why the heck would you choose the one with the pistol grip? That seems like the perfect definition of irony to me.

Dave McCracken
May 30, 2008, 07:03 PM
Looking back over my earlier post, I see I'm coming across as rigid and reactionary.

Sorry.

Let me elaborate.

For almost all shotgunning a bead works well. So does nothing at all. When you're looking at the target( as you should be), the best thing a bead can do is be just a slight reminder of where the barrel is pointing.

When a shotgun is shot like a rifle, as in deer/hog hunting with slugs and when turkey hunting, then some form of sight may help some folks. I say may because even then ranges are on the short side, time frames may be also, and good work with tight patterns and big hunksa lead has been done with just a bead and will be done again.

Maybe a red dot sight will extend your effective slug range out a bit, but lots of us hunt where close shots are the rule.

I use peep sights on my venison getters, but shots are close enough I can do very well with a bead. Most of my last 30 deer or so were taken at bowhunting ranges.

That's a good approach with slugs. Keep the shots close. Practice enough to ensure a clean kill at X yards and stay within that. No Hail Mary shots, no wounded game.

ArmedBear
May 30, 2008, 07:36 PM
What I meant by "nothing" is that, while I have beads on all my shotguns, when I have made a "holy **** how did I do that?" shot on a bird, I wasn't conscious of the bead.:)

M2 Carbine
May 30, 2008, 07:49 PM
Okay, I gotta ask - of all the shotguns you might put a red dot on for "long shots," why the heck would you choose the one with the pistol grip? That seems like the perfect definition of irony to me.

"long shots" in this case is pretty much over 15 yards out to about 100 yards (slugs).
Of course the Ithaca PGO gun has the same range as my stocked 870, it's just a matter of being able to hit the target.

Through practice, I've found in the daylight out to about 15 yards my time and accuracy (00 Buck), from the hip isn't bad at all.
Past about 15 yards, to assure centering the Buckshot I'd better aim.
So even though I don't especially like having the Red Dot on the PGO gun any more, I keep it just for the unlikely chance that I have to make a 20+ yard aimed shot during the day around my place or my neighbors.
Where I live the chances favor a 20-35 yard outside HD shot over a inside across the room shot.

I no longer keep a Red Dot on the 870 since during daylight I'll be aiming with the rifle sights and after dark the aiming will be done with the laser/light.
Same with the Ithaca, the laser/light will be used after dark.

Virginian
May 30, 2008, 08:29 PM
Many years ago, I got serious about goose hunting. I used my goose gun dove hunting, and duck hunting, because everything else was practice. I got a Weaver Quik-Point and mounted it on my 1100. It did not help the gun handling due to the size and weight added, but out in the wide open spaces, I really think it was the greatest aid to good shooting ever. You didn't have to worry about cheek weld, you didn't have to keep your head down, all you had to do was put that red dot the right distance in front of the bird. I even shot some "informal", but terrifically difficult "stick bird" thrown (or should I say fired) clay pigeons with it, and experimented around with occluded sighting, where the eye behind the sight can not see thru it, the other eye sees the target. Sounds crazy, but it works. I also tried an early Aimpoint. This new smaller lighter sight looks interesting.

ArmedBear
May 30, 2008, 08:57 PM
The birds I hunt don't fly in nice straight tracks through the sky. For geese, I guess I could see how "aiming" could work, especially when they're high up.

Virginian
May 30, 2008, 09:54 PM
This thing looks like it addresses the reasons I stopped using a red dot sight back in the mid '80s. I think I'm going to get one if I hear back from Burris and the attachment system to my chosen gun suits me.

TrapperReady
May 30, 2008, 10:10 PM
FWIW, I've twice shot clays with gentlemen who've had red-dots on their shotguns. In the first instance, it was one of the best trap shooters I've ever met. He had one mounted to an 1100 and used it when he was having problems lifting his head. He said that using the red-dot gave him immediate feedback and he'd know as soon as his head shifted even the slightest bit. I only watched him shoot some 16-yard trap with it, but he shot it very well.

More recently, I shot sporting clays with a guy who had eye-dominance problems. He was strongly left-eye dominant, but shot right-handed. He mentioned that he had tried shooting with one eye closed, with an occlusive dot, winking, and so on. However, the solution that worked best for him was a red-dot mounted on his Beretta.

At the first station (which featured a pair of crossers which were a little tricky), I tried not to look too sceptical... and then watched him break them all. IIRC, he ended up shooting in the low to mid-70s on a moderate difficulty tournament course. It wasn't a great score, but neither was it bad. Frankly, his swing looked good and I think he'd pick up more targets keeping his form and simply moving the hold points out a little on the quartering birds. In other words, I don't think the red-dot was the primary source of his missed targets.

I don't own a red-dot currently, but if I ever get the chance to play with one, I'd like to try it for a round of clays. I have a feeling I might be surprised. I also seem to remember that HSMITH posted about using one at some point and doing OK.

LongRider
June 4, 2008, 03:15 PM
I put a Aimpoint on my 500a actually surprised at how well it works / helps. The red dot and laser turned out to not be some useless tacti cool dress up. When I added them, I expected to show that they were not of any real benefit. That has not turned out to be the case. Both have increased my speed and accuracy out to 25 yards, in my back yard. In addition to allowing me to get off accurate shots before I have a proper cheek weld or correctly mounted. Have yet to get to a range and see how helpful they are at longer ranges, though I doubt in the real world I will ever use my shotgun for SD farther out than 25 yards. The red dot does have the disadvantage of needing n extra step to turn it on, unlike the flashlight and laser which I can operate with a solid hold on the forward grip.

Robert Hairless
June 4, 2008, 09:05 PM
Nothing is faster than nothing. When shooting fast-moving targets with a shotgun, you don't really even use the bead, consciously anyway.

ArmedBear and Dave M, both of you seemed clear enough to me and not even the least bit cranky or proscriptive. :)

I especially liked Dave's "When you're looking at the target( as you should be), the best thing a bead can do is be just a slight reminder of where the barrel is pointing."

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