[FranklyTodd]

I posted this in handguns, because I'm hoping to get the opinion of those that regularly choose to carry a handgun - what's the next best thing when carry is not an option? :confused:

Ohio has a weak (but improving) carry law. I carry 100% of the time I'm allowed, but I also follow the law 100% of the time regarding when I can't :scrutiny:, but after researching what would happen if I were busted in such a place (3rd deg. felony, 1-5yrs, $10k fine, and I'd likely be disbarred and lose my job), I've vowed to do even better. :uhoh:

I swear if anyone says "I'd rather be judged by 12..." I will scream! :cuss: :banghead: :rolleyes:

My pre-CCW SD gear included OC spray, and a mini-maglite flashlight. I'm thinking of updating my OC spray (I've got foxlabs spray that's probably expired :(), but I'm also considering a Taser - as a side note, my CCW-averse spouse said she would carry a Taser.

Whaddya all think - his and hers Tasers for father's day? Or is new OC spray more effective (and it's certainly cheaper)? Any other ideas? - no knives please - long story

[Browning]

A folding knife (Al Mar Sere) and pepper spray is what I carry.

[Geronimo45]

Swiss Army Knife, mini-Maglite, fixed blade. Not all at the same time.

[Vern Humphrey]

I always carry -- Arkansas laws are pretty good. But when I go somewhere I can't carry, I take my shillelagh and pretend it's a cane.

[FranklyTodd]

I take my shillelagh and pretend it's a cane

In my 20s, I trained a fair amoung using a cane as a weapon. Never really went with one though (too young for a cane, and a bad actor)... Now that I'm considerably older and more decrepit, the cane (unfortunately) wouldn't look that out of place... :neener:

I don't know why, I hadn't thought about getting that back out and practicing up a bit - this post was worth making just to get that reminder!

Thanks!

[bikerdoc]

Im like vern, IM old enough and have enough imfirmities that kick up from time to time that a a cane is not unusual. you rule out knives, OK, I like the pepper spray idea, have no knowledge of tasers so cant help there, also carry my keys on a chain , a dog collar type for big dogs, and always wear a thick belt that back in the day we would wrap around our wrist and swing like chucks, sorry if this not much help but I did enjoy rambling!

[Ltlabner]

I carry a TDI knife by KA-BAR and a Surfire Exectutive Defender flashlight (has scalops on both end that stick out and can be used defensivley). Usually I carry these even when carrying a G23, but most definatley will have them should I not be legal to CCW.

If it's a place where it's really strict (I'm in Ohio also) I just go with the flashlight. I hate doing that, but if pressed I could explain away the flashlight, the TDI knife would be hard to explain.

Sometimes I'll carry a folding pocket knife with a decent sized blade in place of the TDI if I think someone would freak out if they see the TDI.

[dhoomonyou]

Attitude.

MORE attitude.

[springmom]

Attitude.

MORE attitude.

Yup. And carry that when you ARE carrying a firearm too. Don't look like a victim.

take my shillelagh and pretend it's a cane

You can get a really good, solid, do-some-damage cane from a farm supply place. They're for livestock, and I've been told that they're a great alternative to expensive self-defense canes.

Springmom

[un_lucky]

A good flashlight and a solid ink pen work ok. 8 years in corrections has made me a disbeliever in any defence spray.

[Black Majik]

A cell phone...

...so I can dial 911.

[steven58]

For world wide travel in all types of security areas any good 50 lumen or better compact light with a tailcap switch, I carry a Surefire L2 lumamax (100 lumens), and a "substantial" pen with good gripping surfaces. I prefer the LED type lights for their run time and dependability but any good 6" or less light should do.

No sharp scalloped edges on the light, its for blinding or ID a threat. Using it as kuboton is secondary and for that it works fine as is.

I think that adding the "tactical teeth" to a flashlight or buying $ 80 "tactical" pens increases the chances of having your $$$ toy confiscated by TSA, Court Officers etc. A normal aluminum, steel or even a Bic pen can do amazing damage when deployed properly. This is a combo you can carry everywhere and use in the tightest quarters.

For Slightly longer reach you can carry an 18 inch loop of paracord in your pocket. In less than 1 second you can loop it through your heavy duty key ring full of keys for a fairly decent impact weapon. CAUTION: in some jurisdictions this is considered a "slung-shot" and is illegal in the same category as a blackjack or sap, so don't carry it assembled.

[GBExpat]

Thumb-opening Folder with a pocket clip in right rear pocket.

[PX15]

A one million volt "Small Fry" Stun gun......

Jesse

[velobard]

Get a kubotan keychain and study a little on how to use it.

My wife is considering a job across the river in the free-fire zone know as IL and it appears virtually nothing is allowed; tasers, stunguns, etc. She has borderline asthma so I'm not considering pepper spray since it might incapacitate her more than the BG. I'm getting her a kubotan since it might be about the only thing she can get away with, while her 9mm sits at home.

[BrianB]

I walk like I'm going somewhere (attentive and heads up confident)...and carry a LOT of hand-to-hand training, and a high-end Leatherman with a quick flick blade. Carrying a "non-weapon" weapon can help in court after you hurt a BG.

[stevelyn]

A CRKT folder and the disposition of a rattlesnake.

[Just Jim]

Only place I might go and not be able to carry is on a plane and then there isn't much you can do except give them BGs a really dirty look.

Alot of things can be used as a weapon should the need arise. Even a pencil can be shoved in the eye of a bad guy if the chance arises. HMMMM maybe those geeks with their pencil holders in their pockets knew something.

Guns are not the only weapons in the world, what did they use before guns came along.

jj

[mainmech48]

Life Insurance and Zanax.:D

[makarovnik]

I carry a folding knife with a big blade all the time even when carrying a firearm.

[kamagong]

Learn how to use a knife. It also doesn't hurt to know how to use your hands and feet.

[pyle]

Depends on the situation. I have several years of matial arts training and it helps. I usually carry a small knife (locking blade). I plan on looking into a taser and pepper spray for me and my wife.

I'm just like the OP - I try to obey the law 100% of the time! I won't carry where I'm not supposed to carry - that's just the way I am. JFYI - I don't even like to break the speed limit. :neener:

[FranklyTodd]

Learn how to use a knife. It also doesn't hurt to know how to use your hands and feet.

I trained pretty diligently from about 1988-2004 - herniated disc from a throw, and torn shoulder cartilage from boxing have slowed me down considerably, in addition to plain old age.

I'm not worried about holding my own in a "bar fight" (one because I could, and another because I would never get INTO a bar fight).

I'm worried about when the BG has sized me up and KNOWS he (and his friends?) have the advantage. You know, the kind of situation where you would draw your gun!

We trained quite a bit with a knife. I just don't like using a knife - didn't say I don't know how...

I should have made my question simpler - anyone here use a Taser / stun gun in these situations? I'm as confident as I can be with OC spray and a flashlight, just looking to see if there was something better...

That's the one negative about CCW, I never felt underarmed before CCW, now if I can't carry, I can't help but feel a little more vulnerable...

Thanks to all!

[TRN]

My fists.

[SilentArmy]

Jim Wagner Reality Based blade by Boker! designed specifically to penetrate the thickest bone in the human body. this knife gives me the willies more than the thought of a gun pointed at me. I have used OC spray and it affected me nearly as much as the intended target! Breathing trouble and nausea more than burning and tears! The Taser route seems like it would be a good time though. I LOVE watching the training Vids of taser shots!

[DrLaw]

Since concealed carry should never be allowed, I carry photos of Hillary Clinton, Barak Obama, Rod Blagoevich (Illinois Governor awaiting indictment) and Mayor Daley so show any would be attackers/robbers that I am on their side and understand their plight and how bad it feels to be poor and that they should understand that I would never ever carry an evil gun that might violate their rights to attack/rob me if I was to use it on them. Then I ask them to wait while I find a phone to call the police.




:neener:
Okay, the truth.

I thought I would be the only one to say a kubaton key ring, but somebody beat me to it, here. I also have a small knife where ever I go, from 1 inch to 4 inches in blade length. :)

The Doc is out now. :cool:

[rantingredneck]

Surefire E2D and a leatherman c301 folder. Also what lies between my ears.

[SAG0282]

Same as I'd normally carry....my Swiss Army knife.

Been thinking about replacing my OC...every time I get some I find a female friend that doesn't have any and give it away.

[jhco]

ditto to trn

[J Lambs]

Usually a 12oz Bud Light.

This is my 100th post.......Cheers!!!

[themic]

Generally I find that when I can't carry I can't carry a knife or alternate tool either. So it's a very bright surefire and my sturdy set of keys. Ever had a surefire shined in your eyes at close range at night? It's wild, man. Good for 3 or 4 seconds play room.

[ZombieHunter]

Living in MD I've learned to improvise lol...usually I have a Zebra F-402 (heavy solid metal pen $5 at wallyworld) and a 3.5" folding knife. Would either be at all useful? Probably not...but probably not is a lot better than completely unarmed...

[FranklyTodd]

Ever had a surefire shined in your eyes at close range at night? It's wild, man. Good for 3 or 4 seconds play room.

I've always just carried a trusty 2 AA cell MagLight (cheap and tough - I've probably got 5 of them kicking around here). I've always just trained/planned to use it as a yawara as I learned in arnis. Blinding someone sounds infinitely easier... :D I'm no tough guy, but if the BG can't see, I like my chances! :neener:

Will have to re-think the flashlight - thanks for the great tip!


(heavy solid metal pen $5 at wallyworld) and a 3.5" folding knife. Would either be at all useful? Probably not...but probably not is a lot better than completely unarmed...

I was taught to use ANYTHING except the frail human hand - I think the pen is a great idea, and you can take it places that even my little MagLight might cause problems.

[Defensory]

Posted by FranklyTodd:
Whaddya all think - his and hers Tasers for father's day? Or is new OC spray more effective (and it's certainly cheaper)? Any other ideas? - no knives please - long story

Tasers and stun guns are illegal in MANY areas of the country now. Are you sure tasers are legal where you're at?

Pepper foam and pepper gel are both more effective than pepper spray. Buy the foam or gel, and be sure to shake the cannister well before leaving the house. Buy new cannisters and throw out the old ones every two years.

Also, one of the kubotan keychains that has two metal prongs on the side, and pointed on one end.

[FranklyTodd]

Are you sure tasers are legal where you're at?

Honestly, not a clue... ;) I've yet to find anyone that recommends them over a good OC - be it spray, foam, gel, so it's doubtful I'll spring for one...

Thanks for the heads up though, and I'll certainly check into it before I would buy...

[EDIT] I need to go to bed, but I did look real quick, and at least according to Taser, they are legal in Ohio. http://www.taser.org/laws.html The cited statute says

"Deadly weapon" means any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon.


Interesting - I know they've had accidental deaths with Tasers, but is it "capable of inflicting death"?? I think it would be ok, whether you were caught with it undeployed, or deployed it in a legitimate SD manner...

[jungleroy]

A stainless steel Parker pen of course. ;)

[RaspberrySurprise]

Anything is capable of inflicting death including a cotton ball. There's a pretty nice gray area in that law. I imagine that if the prosecutor was out for your bacon he could probably make a pretty convincing case as to a tazer being a deadly weapon. You'd probably be best off sending a letter to the state AG and seeing what kind of response you get back.

[Mp7]

i eat a lot of onions and garlic in a secret combo
with lots of BBQ meat.
My weapon has two barrels.
One in open sight mounted on top.
And a concealed barrel on the lower behind,
that delivers a very heavy round.

;)

[FranklyTodd]

You'd probably be best off sending a letter to the state AG and seeing what kind of response you get back.

Kind of bad timing for that! Our Attorney General was just forced out of office amid huge scandals of sexual harassment and improper spending. :eek:

The governor (a very pro-gun democrat, as a side note) just appointed the dean of Ohio State University's law school as interim AG until a successor can be elected in a special election this fall. :uhoh:

Obviously that gray area is on purpose... I remember researching the issue a long time ago, and getting NOWHERE. IIRC, it's applied with fairly decent common sense if you are just found with an object that has an alternative explanation - say a baseball bat and glove in your car. :scrutiny:

However, if you assault someone with that same bat, it can be assault with a deadly weapon, as it is "capable of inflicting death" and "used as a weapon."

If used as a weapon, but in self defense, the prosecutor has all the discretion in the world to charge you with a big crime, a little crime, or no crime at all. That's why we (gulp) have a jury of our peers... I hope there are some THR peers on my jury should I ever be there for anything like that! :cool:

I have access to LexisNexis - If I have time later I'll see if I can find any cases that mention "Taser" or "stun gun" and see what they say. A quick search yields 200 cases, but most of them are excessive force claims against police. I'll try to refine the search later... :banghead:

[spyderdude]

I try to carry a sense of awareness at all times, whether I have my gun on me or not.

[dbones]

When I cannot even carry a ceramic knife, I always have a medium thick magazine. Roll one of these up real tight and you have a great self defense club. You can break bones with one this way. It also helps to get the LE off your back if you tell them you beat the BG with a magazine.

[The Bushmaster]

Same thing I carry when I can carry. Either my .357 magnum S&W 2 1/2" Mod 19 Combat magnum or my 9mm X 19...

[riceboy72]

Just got back from a few days in northern Cali, and I had my Surefire Aviator with me at all times. I was going to bring a Spyderco Native, but opted to leave it at home and just carry the Surefire. Otherwise, those two are the combo.

[themic]

Caution on the pepper spray - there's a reason they make cops get pepper sprayed before they carry it.

Some people are rather immune to it, most people have the intended effect, and some people take especially poorly to it.

Good to know what category you're in. Backspray is probable in the personal defense type of encounter. Yes, even with the streaming jet kind. They just keep running at you, and now they're covered with oily pepper spray stuff...

[GunNut]

Benchmade or Kershaw Leek pocket knife is always with me. I do sometimes carry a NAA Mini .22mag when I can't carry a gun too.

[Prince Yamato]

Tasers are large and expensive. Just get really good pepper spray. A nice fountain pen works too.

[Brian Dale]

There's no CCW for regular people in my state. I've got a stock cane and some walking sticks. Usually a pen or two, a book, then whatever is within reach. I don't pocket carry my Surefires at present. I carry a pocket knife, but I wouldn't grab that first; I'm not a trained knife fighter.

I suppose that I could always walk up to the bad guys and ask them for money...

[hhb]

Cellphone

[tinygnat219]

If I can't go into places I can't carry, I don't go there. Exceptions are courthouses, etc. However, for stuff like the post office, I just drop stuff in the mailbox, or use Mailboxes, etc. to ship stuff.

[WC145]

When I can't carry a gun I carry a Kel-tec P3AT and I always carry a knife as well. I've also got a strong martial arts/boxing/self defense background as well.

[ScottyT]

When I can't carry a gun I carry a Kel-tec P3AT

:D

Ditto -- But then again, I never go to the courthouse or post office, etc...

[Flopsy]

Surefire E2D and a Gerber EVO.

[FranklyTodd]

Wow, Surefire lights have gotten a great run on this thread.

I did a little research and those buggers are expensive! I guess the answer is obvious since so many have them, but are they really worth the extra $$$?

My Mag is like $6, and would seem as a defensive blunt force weapon, would be equal to the Surefire.

So, it must be the super-bright light that makes them superior? Do you practice/train to actually use that - flash the light in their eyes then smash 'em?

Sincerely curious here - not trying to disparage those that have them - I think I'm in the minority NOT having one.

I doubt I'll go that route - with my pathetic, middle-aged, three-kid-having life, I don't think I've walked anywhere in the dark in a long time - at least not in a situation where I didn't have a gun... ;) My non-gun times seem to be going to the elementary school, going to lunch in restaurants (no carry zones in Ohio - dumb!), etc. Oh, yeah, and every day at work! :( If I were back in my bar days, I can see where temporary blinding a BG would be a terrific advantage!

[tsidorus]

the nylon versions arent that expensive. (although not as good for the blunt trauma wpn....


-Tsi

[3fgburner]

Cop-size (4oz) OC spray, Kershaw folder, mini-Maglite, honkin' big ring of keys on a 'biner. If I'm feeling paranoid, add an oak cane with a brass eagle head. Can you say "Bec-de-Corbin", boys and girls? I knew you could.

[dogrunner]

My mini .22 NAA with the singular exception of when I know I'm going to be wanded or where its utterly impossible ie: air travel............other than that to the devil with signage and petty regulations..........I'd prefer to have the means to keep on breathin'!

[DrLaw]

Surefire E2D and a Gerber EVO.



I've never seen that flavor of Gerber before. However it has been a while since my kid had baby food. Do you open the jar and fling the food at the person, or do you just chuck the jar as hard as you can at their heads, like Crocodile Dundee did with that can of soup at the purse snatcher?

The Doc is curious now. :cool:

PS: :rolleyes:

[Brian Dale]

Yes, Doc, the Gerber baby food company was founded in 1928 (http://www.gerber.com/history), but the Gerber company that makes knives like this,
(http://www.gerbergear.com/product.php?model=1874) well, it's true that it wasn't founded until 1939 (http://www.gerbergear.com/history.php).

Even so, several people have already heard of them. One of their knives is the Gerber EVO (http://www.gerbertools.com/1779_22-01433_Gerber_EVO_Fine_Edge.html).

I'm not sure what you're driving at. :confused:

Edited to add: I suppose that it's a nuanced suggestion that you don't like the brand.

[The_Rambler]

Hah, I dont go to high tech with it. A roll of quarters.

[blkbrd666]

When I can't carry, I carry my Glock...(puts flame suit on) since it's not a real gun. :evil:

[JCF]

Hah, I dont go to high tech with it. A roll of quarters.


:D

Heh...

A large D shaped carabiner makes a nasty set of aluminum knuckles, and doesn't draw a lot of attention.

[10-Ring]

For me, since concealed carry in my state is a huge no-no, I find my taser, oc & knife viable options

[Defensory]

Posted by 10-Ring
For me, since concealed carry in my state is a huge no-no, I find my taser, oc & knife viable options

Even in many states where it's legal for civilians to possess tasers, it's still illegal for them to carry tasers concealed.

So those interested in purchasing a taser should contact their state attorney general's office and county sheriff's office in writing, and find out the specific applicable laws in their area.

[ahol457]

I live in Ohio and recently purchased am African Walking Stick from Cold Steel. 37" long and made of Tupperware. Nice stick, large knob on end and indestructible, except if you are in a high temperature fire!

[Flopsy]

Wow, Surefire lights have gotten a great run on this thread.

I did a little research and those buggers are expensive! I guess the answer is obvious since so many have them, but are they really worth the extra $$$?

True, my E2D was about $110. It was expensive but I have not found any product that was comparable. The thing has wicked teeth on the end that give me added confidence in it should I ever have to use it in a defensive mode. And, the thing is very bright. Internet illustrations and testing at the brightly lit store cannot fully convey how deep and penetrating that tiny light is in the dark woods. It easily outshines a full size mag light.

[rklessdriver]

I always have a folding knife in my pocket. For 5-6 yrs it was a Spyder Co Endura II until I broke it (well it won't stay locked open anymore) prying on something (I think) when I was deployed over to the desert.

Last 2 yrs or so, I have carried a Kershaw (Ken Onion) folder.

I always have a 3D cell Mag light on the floor board, beside the seat in my Jeep.

I'd hate to think I had to defend myself with either, but if my pistol isn't acessable for what ever reason, I recon BG is just gonna have to get cut or smashed.
Will

[DrLaw]

I'm not sure what you're driving at.

I was just being a little goofy. I knew he meant Gerber knives.

That's part of the problem of being in Illinois. So much of what is going on in the rest of the country does not apply here. We had a case over near Peoria iirc where a guy with a assisted opening knife was charged with having a switchblade knife. It finally got dismissed. He got the dang thing at the local Wal-Mart and the prosecutor was going to have a problem proving that one button operated the knife.

Still, it illustrates that even carrying a knife is frought with problems here in Illinois, where we honest people are not trusted by the Governor, State Police and Mayor of Chicago to be careful with concealed guns. :fire:

I have nothing else to offer from experience but some levity and comedy from time to time outside from when I was a cop and allowed to carry. Now that I am just a lawyer and not a cop (i.e. much more education and licensing) I am not trusted enough by my state to have concealed carry. :fire:

The Doc is out and depressed now. :(

[bdjansen]

Yes, Doc, the Gerber baby food company was founded in 1928, but the Gerber company that makes knives like this,
well, it's true that it wasn't founded until 1939.

Even so, several people have already heard of them. One of their knives is the Gerber EVO.

I'm not sure what you're driving at.

Edited to add: I suppose that it's a nuanced suggestion that you don't like the brand.

I think he was just making a joke.

I carry a small can of pepper spray. I'm supprised that so many people don't carry it or don't like it. I've test sprayed the stuff and just being around the spray (it wasn't even back spray) stung my sinuses quite a bit. It was like eating a bunch of wasabi. I imagine being sprayed in the face would drop me real quick.

I'm also supprised at the amount of people with those Surefire flashlights. I never would have thought of shinning a bright light at an attackers face. Maybe I should start a new thread on it but has anybody excaped from an attacker by blinding them with their flashlight? Also, where did you get this idea?

I have an LED maglight but I'm not too fond of it. It's because when the batteries die it's without warning. The light doesn't fade slowly, it just cuts out. Is it like that with the Surefires?

[riceboy72]

I have an LED maglight but I'm not too fond of it. It's because when the batteries die it's without warning. The light doesn't fade slowly, it just cuts out. Is it like that with the Surefires?

With the Surefire incandescent line, yes. A slight taper, then no light. With the LED, not so much. It slowly tapers but still emits usable light, and does so for a long time after the batteries stop emitting enough juice to power an incandescent bulb.

The LED from Surefire is one of the coolest flashlights to come along in a while. Once you get used to the light output, I think it's hard to beat.

[Brian Dale]

Oh, I knew
I'm not sure what you're driving at.
I was just being a little goofy. I knew he meant Gerber knives.
I was just being more than a little dense, and I misunderstood your comment. Sorry that I was a dork. :o

[CypherNinja]

Only place I might go and not be able to carry is on a plane and then there isn't much you can do except give them BGs a really dirty look.


You, my friend, need to pay more attention to the seatbelts.

[TrueBlueSam]

In the car: long handled 3/8 Craftsman ratchet with a sparkplug socket locked on. Out of the car: hickory walking stick.

[FranklyTodd]

long handled 3/8 Craftsman ratchet with a sparkplug socket locked on

Nice! I had to fly one-way to New Jersey to pick up some cats and drive them home (don't ask!). Due to flying, I no weapon.

When I got there and got my rental, I popped in the nearest Sears and bought a pry-bar - less than a crow bar, but still pretty stout. I've used it several times, so it's not like I bought it JUST for self defense, but the timing of the purchase was certainly driven by that cause...

[Defensory]

A good weapon for in the car is a 36" thermoplastic riot baton, equipped with a thong for a secure grip. Completely legal, virtually impossible to break, and can deliver devastating strikes to various parts of the body. The thong wrapped around your hand makes it very difficult for someone to take it away from you.

A standard 24" police baton with thong will also work quite well, if the 36" riot baton is a little too long for your preference.

Another good weapon for in the car is a Mag-Lite flashlight (4 D-cell size). Virtually impossible to break, and heavy enough to deliver crushing blows to the head etc.

[mljdeckard]

Leatherman on the belt, CKRT folder in the pocket, needlepoint Spyderco on the keychain.

[janobles14]

spyderco civilian

[papajohn]

Surefire G2 or 9P in a belt holster, plus a folder and an attitude. I try to look like I just killed the last guy that bothered me...........:cool:

PJ

[Tuxedo.Bond]

I'm poor, so if I do carry something it's usually a 5 inch slide out razor. If I had a choice, and the intention is defense then I would carry a fixed blade that has no more then a 7 1/2 inch blade, is no longer then 13 inches overall and is similar to one of the following:

A double edged dagger:
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_2001_7938146

Or a single edged knife:
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_2001_5132014

I don't have time to be reaching into my pocket and unfolding a folded blade in a defense situation, hence the fixed blade.

If I don't intend the blade for defense then any folded blade will do.

[wristtwister]

45 years of martial arts training in karate, jujutsu, and Aikido and a cell phone.

When I was working out of town, I stopped at a laundry once where I was confronted by 3 young men (use the term loosely) who told me that I needed to give them my watch. When I refused, the "leader" said ..."do you know what it means that there's 3 of us?"

"Yeah", I told him... "you're going to need more than one ambulance".:neener:

WT

[nwilliams]

Oh goody an excuse to take some pictures of weapons other than guns all the time:D

I always carry at least two knives on me wherever I go, when I can't carry a gun its better no weapon at all.....

Depending on my mood I'll carry any combination consisting of my Spyderco Police, Kershaw Leek or Camillus Heat assisted open.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/SpydyandKershy1.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/Camillus.jpg

[JShirley]

Frankly,

Almost everyone on this board, regardless of the forum they frequent, carries a concealed firearm at least some of the time.

One should be careful assuming what dedicated weapon is "completely legal" in other states. I am a big fan of useful tools that can be pressed into service defensively in needed. Small flashlights definitely fit into this category.

Carrying a full-sized fixed blade for defense seems pretty silly. If you're in a place where carrying a firearm is illegal, carrying a large knife will be, as well.

John

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

If I think that there realistically *might* be trouble, and cannot carry a handgun for some reason, I carry this one:

http://www.gerber-tools.com/Gerber-Applegate-Fairbairn-Combat-5780.htm

Sometimes this one:

http://www.kershaw-knives.net/Kershaw-Ken-Onion-Spec-Bump-KS1596.htm

And occasionally this one:

http://www.crkt.com/dsrtcrsr.html

[TimboKhan]

I have taken to carrying a smallish flashlight with me lately, and I almost always carry my Fox predator II knife on me. Other than that, I basically rely on hostility and aggression, Thunder and Lightning (left and right fists, lol) and my considerable bulk to defend myself. Honestly, the knife is more for utility than defense, as I don't know the first thing about knife-fighting. The flashlight at present is used more as a fist pack and as a flashlight, but my interest in learning some kubotan techniques is pretty high.

[JShirley]

It's pretty simple.

Unless you want to get complicated by using the light to apply pressure to spots while grappling (I don't like grappling if I can help it), you basically use the light as a hammer fist.

Face and other exposed bones are the target. If somebody grabs you, slam your fist, with light protruding, down on the bones that are exposed in their hand. Immediately bring your hand up and strike the face. If you're positioned where it's easier to strike the face, do that first, and then go for the hand if they've forgotten to let go (people often tend to "clench" under stress, even when it's the wrong move).

Think about what you carry when you can't have a weapon. I think knives are tools, but, let's assume that you're someplace where a knife will also automatically be considered a weapon. What can you have?

Water bottles.
Small flashlights.
Keys, as long as they don't look outrageous. (Kubatons may not be allowed.)
Magazines.

Of these, a large, heavy magazine would be my first choice for most defensive applications. Roll it tightly. It can be used to strike the hand or wrist of an attacker, or their face. It can also be swung, with a bowling type motion, into their solar plexus.

You may have to think outside the box. For years, I've always carried a sturdy lock on my carry-on bag on flights. Attack a lock to a belt, and you've got 3 feet of distance you can use to your advantage, especially when the attacker is armed with a plastic box cutter. I have several different lanyards made from 550 cord. These are easily explainable when you have a carabiner on one end, and keys on the other (quite useful, too, actually). I've never even been questioned about these in airports. I've carried them into places that didn't allow chains on wallets, even. Heh. Ever had a slingloading class? 550 (type 2/type 3 cord) is tough stuff.

There are only so many types of weapons. You have sharps. You have sticks. You have flexibles. You have projectiles. Spend a little time learning how to use each type of weapon, and then you'll never truly be disarmed.

John

[LongRider]

I prefer my cane over other weapons. It is never questioned as I posted on another thread a cane sends the wrong message it makes the BG think you are a defenseless disabled victim not an armed opponent. It is hidden in the open. So the element of surprise is yours. Having nailed an SOB with one I can assure you they are surprised. IMO Hooked or knobbed canes limit the canes potential as a weapon You are far better off obtaining a cane that has its handle coming straight off of the main shaft at a 90º angle like that of a tonfa or a police PR-24. Chris Koontz (http://www.americancane.com/) Offset-T Canes are a good example of a quality fighting cane his Birdshead cane is also acceptable but not as good though it is better looking. You want to be able to use the handle to grasp to block with and have a good grasp on to spin and swing with. Getting police training for a PR-24 or a course in Kendo, Kobu-do, Bo-Jutsu, Jo-Jutsu (not Jiu-Jitsu) would be very beneficial in the getting the most use of a canes weapons potential. There is a reason that fighting canes and the PR-24 are shaped they way the are with the 90º handle with some practice and experience you will quickly see why. The same as with guns get the proper tool and training than practice. I do carry a knife at all times that I can. My Kershaw is my daily do everything knife. If it ever breaks I will get me a MercWorx folder but for 12 years now it has done its job every day without fail. For hunting camping I have a Ecuadorian Chili from MercWorx that would be the ideal combat knife but to big to carry. I carry it in my car with some camping gear on occasion. I have not had good luck with pepper sprays though I understand a quality one like a Foxx does do its job. In my car I carry an eighteen inch wrench in my tool box and a fish club that I have filled with lead next to a fishing pole and a tackle. In the last year I have begun to carry a NovaTec flashlight that comes in as handy as my pocket knife. The lanyard & carabiner idea appears to be a good one that I may incorporate into my gear. But my cane is my #1 always carry anywhere tool

[Carl Levitian]

Living in Maryland I have grown used to not having a CCW option for most of my life. Instead I carry a stout walking stick (either a hickory crook top from a feed store or an Irish Blackthorn with a knoby handle) everyplace I go. Since I have some grey chin whiskers I can get by with a stout cane and not get any looks. It's always in my hand and ready, nothing to be drawn or cocked. Since I go very often into federal buildings in Washinton D.C. I don't carry anything that looks like a weapon. My edc knife is a Swiss Army knife, and does not get any attention either.

In my car stuck under the drivers side floor mat with the handle sticking out to grab, is a long narrow Snap On screw driver. I've also been known to carry a 4 inch slim Phillips screwdriver in the side pocket of my pants. Lightweight but very fast to draw. In my shirt pocket is a steel ball point pen. Often I'll have a AA mini-mag in my back pocket that has been converted to LED. It makes a handy kuboton.

[ravenor]

IF you can't carry, you can't get more discreet than an Hide-Away Knife. HAKs are custom creations that werer made by makers like Strider, Brock, Brum, Krein, and others. Some of these customs aren't available any more but they still have production models in a couple of styles. I've owned a couple a loved them all. They are great for running, outdoor hiking , etc. as they are light weight but perfect for an urban enviroment, too. They work as a neck knife or a in your pocket blade. Plus, they're one piece blades, so no folding or moving parts. Nothing spells idiot like full size KA-bar printing behind your back under your t-shirt, Should have just kept your 1911? A lot of DOD and LEO types are carrying them as back-ups to their back-ups.

Of course, I'm biased as I have a couple and recently put one up for sale.

[JShirley]

That's great, except when using one will automatically put you in jail. If you go to jail, you haven't successfully defended yourself, have you?

We are talking about what to use when you can't have a weapon. HAKs don't apply.

John

[kBob]

Sorry to chime in so late.

I always try to carry my brain. As others have suggested be aware of how things not normally weapons can be used as such.

The first week of commercial air travel ( it was supprisingly lonely for the first few days as folks for some reason had a real fear of flying) I chose to travel wearing my old "NATO Boots" aka German paratrooper boots and yes they made me take them off every time I reentered a controlled area. I knew that speed lace design would come in handy.

I also carred a staineless steel cross ball point and mechanical pencil. I wore a big honking cowboy type belt buckle on a leaterh belt and trousers with elastic gussets to hold up my pants when the belt was deployed. As I had a baby with me and a wife I had a heavy carry on bag with a lonk strap. In an outside pocket I had a pair of fresh socks inside were (can't carrythem now) afew cans of baby formula and a few little water bottles. Either could have been an attention geter if thrown at very close range and dropped into a sock, well use your imagination.

I considered both cameras in their bags on shoulder straps to be expendable. Hmm some what heavy camera and spare batteries on the end of a shoulder strap what could one possibly do with those?

ANd I checked to see if the seat cushion really did come out and have staps on the back....not the best sheild, but beats nothing. ANd of course I had a good hard back book to read for the flight.

and if I have to go someplace on the ground where I can not carry a firearm or blade I try to carry a Mini mag or a knock off I like from Nodric that has a side button.

Of late I occasionally carry a cheap cane with a crook type handle. No doubt a camoflauged PR24 is preferable but hey, it's a big stick.

and maybe I can talk them to death.

-Bob Hollingsworth

[weisse52]

I always have a folder with me, sometimes a Benchmade 4 inch blade, sometimes a small Mel Pardue 2 inch. I carry these even when I am armed. I also like a cane. I had some injuries in the Navy so I got the scars to prove I need it. Nothing fancy, actually the one the Navy gave me back in 72. And I have even "tried it out", works great!
In my Jeep I keep a Ball Peen hammer. Completely legal, and quite deadly. Just ask the Hell Angles.
As to pepper spray. Use to carry it till I had to use it. BG never even slowed up. The cane did work much better. As to the gel and foam pepper sprays, for what it is worth, my CCW instructor (OHIO police officer) says that the BG's have developed a trick when it is sprayed on them. They try and get you in a bear hug so it is on you and them. Not to sure if it is true, but after having OC fail me I guess it is possible.

[stv]

-Spyderco Military
-Spyderco Civilian
-Teeth

[dmxx9900]

I conceal carry a Kabar Dozier 3 1/8 inch folder knife very sharp and better than fists

[snow]

My state has laws that are very similar when it comes to firearms and any other weapons. If you can't carry a firearm then it is most likely illegal to carry any other weapon. With that said I usually have a CRKT M16-13M folder on me at all times. I am a heating and air technician so it is not uncommon for me to have a screwdriver and set of needlenose pliers in my possession too. a thin flat head screw driver or thin phillips can serve as a formidable yet legal icepick.

[GRB]

I take my shillelagh and pretend it's a cane.
I love it!

As for me, I can carry anywhere in the USA except sometimes when I am in court.

When I decide not to carry, which is pretty rare, I take along a folder in my pocket, and maybe the pepper spray too.

Best regards,
GB

[OldCowHand]

jungleroy: > A stainless steel Parker pen of course.

+1 on that. Literally -- I carry two.

Most of the time I'll be toting numerous other items that could also be improvised into weapons in a pinch: 2AA LED Maglite, Swiss army knife, small Space Pen, small coin purse, belt ...

... and generally a few items that I view as tools for most purposes, but which would be more likely to be viewed as weapons if I had to use them: small fixed-blade knife (generally a CRKT Plan B, but occasionally Ka-Bar's small Law Enforcement edition with the canted handle, or the always-useful SOG Mini-Pentagon with its fine blade on one side and serrated on the other), maybe an assisted-opener like a Gerber FAST Draw.

All that said, the principal place where I would be unable to carry would be out of state, so I pretty much have to maintain situational awareness, stick to the improvised weapons and hope for the best.

[Boom-stick]

My WHOLE country is an NPE:barf:

Therefore the light I carry is for illuminating the darkness in the heart of man
(215 lumens does a lot of illuminating!!)

My Top popper key ring is for opening bottles in an emergency.

The Mil-Tac TDI pen I carry because it was a present from my wife.

And the 10oz custom leather 'sap' shaped object is for spanking my girlfiend with, so for christ's sake don't tell the wife!!:evil:

Along with various training over the years in Boxing, Judo, Combatives etc and more recently training in AMOK! and with the Dog Brothers, coupled with a bad attitude and being generally pi$$ed off with life, I feel I'm better equipped than most on this God forsaken Island.

Rant Over:o

[ashtxsniper]

When Im not allowed to carry I usually just find a smaller more concealable handgun and be extra careful. I always carry a Spyderco Endura 4.

[NathanJK]

I'm virtually never without a knife, 99% of the time it is a Spyderco Native that I'm very fond of. Before that it was a Benchmade 940 which I funny enough like less than the Spyderco. My general "knife fighting" plan is that if I ever need it I'll hold it in a reverse grip and punch like crazy. (keep in mind, I have no formal training, so I think this will be the most idiot proof and effective method) If I should be lucky enough to trap an arm, leg etc. I can easily cut tendons in that grip to render the appendage useless. I've been looking for a good stout pen though, this thread has given me several good options! Also, I'm planning on picking up a "lil loco" from Shiv Works. To go with that, I really need a tiny bright flashlight.

[usmccpl]

My belt buckle weighs about 2 pounds on the end of a 30 inch belt it will put somebody in a hurtlocker. Add to that 20 years of training with my hands and feet. But I have my Spyderco Police on me when im not flying.

[jpsimms]

hands, feet, steel toe boots, cheap folder knife, sheffield folding razor knife (it's a tool), wallet chain, keys, pen, 44 inch belt, I found that a solid watch worn on the inside of the wrist works well.

awareness, experience, attitude, and the "Don't mess with me" look

I do ok

[VegasOPM]

I have carried a knife every day since I was 12. Yes, even to school and at my wedding. I went on a one day trip to California and planned to not carry one, but I broke down and bought a cheap POS at the gas station- which I threw away at the airport. On the occasions that I can't take it somewhere (airport, rock concert) I have a steel ballpoint pen.

Right now it is a carbon fiber Walter Henry. The backup is a CRKT neck knife.

[White_Fox]

It is quite sad an unfortunate that the govt. makes unconstitutional laws "attempting" to disarm the rightful citizens. I carry regardless, under the Constitution, and the 2nd Amendment thereof; the govt have no Constitutional authority or power to control or regulate guns or firearms, nor any implement you choose to carry for your defense. No citizen is bound to obey and unconstitutional law.

It is imperative that the people of America tell the servant govt where to go, and what to do. I use to carry a taser ( allowed by law in Maryland ) however I was arrested for it!? wow TYRANT ALERT! so I was forced to carry a gun now.

Far as I am concerned, when a govt person tries to disarm you when your committing no crime... question them on their oath to the Constitution, remind them it is their duty to uphold the Constitution, not to violate it.... i.e. your 2nd Amendment right to carry.

your carry permit is your birth right as an American, you do not have to pay the govts money for a permit in exchange for your already born right.

under U.S. Code. Title 18 - 242 it makes it a crime for "any" govt person, including law enforcement to deprive you of your Constitutional rights.

also under legal definition, ARMS is "anything" a person carries for their defense. not limited to "firearms" or "guns"

[conwict]

Olight T10 Q5 LED light
Kimber LifeAct pepper spray (2 shots)
Case Sodbuster Jr (PC and friendly and certainly a "pocket knife")
Screwdriver (gotta change them radiator hoses mayne)
Shillelagh (hurt my ankle and hip on the right side, lifting weights)

Edit, cell phone too. Underrated! If at all possible I'm going to get a call in to 911 before I am engaged in any altercations.

In a true "no weapons" place I'd be pretty comfortable with an XL bandana and a flashlight or cell phone. That makes a wicked impact weapon. Legal? Not sure, but I know it's not illegal to have a bandana and cell phone just about anywhere, and any reasonable person might think of that to defend himself if urgent need arose...it doesn't suggest premeditation simply to have a bandana and a cell phone, and if someone drives you to use them as weapons that makes him look pretty bad.

[hignhappy00]

I always carry Swiss Army Knife.

[JShirley]

I have repeatedly suggested a full water bottle as a defensive tool. Not only do we need water to live, you can take it anywhere (except perhaps on airplanes :rolleyes:), and have a perfectly legitimate reason for carrying it.

Some people have thought that either a regular water bottle could not be used, or that such a water bottle would break after a single strike. There have been suggestions of nifty bottles made from other materials, or even of freezing (!) water bottles.

I have always said you don't need any of that. I really wanted to bang the hell out of a cinder block. Since none were handy, I executed three hard strikes on a solid piece of firewood. There was a mild indentation on the bottom of the bottle.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4570.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4571.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4574.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4575.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4576.jpg

John

[conwict]

Pic 4 is awfully funny, good illustration of the trusty H2O bottle though.

Caption: "I'll see your hardwood Ayoob, and raise you one waterbottle...all in." :neener:

[Nicky Santoro]

What do you carry when you can't carry?

I live in Nazi Jersey. Business sometimes takes me to areas where the cops only go in two car patrols. I do what I need to do when I need to do it.

[seeker_two]

I like Pic 4, too....

"Your feeble logs are no match for the bottle-fu skills that Master Walton taught me in Aisle 12...." :D

....but that log looks kinda clean-cut for a blunt-force strike, doncha think?.... :scrutiny:

[tholiver]

Monty Python - Self-Defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w

:)

[KiltedClaymore]

how to defend yourself against someone armed....WITH A BANANNA!!!


lol monty python is great stuff.

[Harlan]

In florida it was a pistol grip 870 loaded with frangible ammo two slugs first and then buckshot behind those, it was behind the seat of my pickup at all times. Other than that just a good fixed blade or balisong. Now just moved to Portland, OR and not to sure about the laws yet. ???

[Brian Dale]

Welcome to The High Road, Harlan. There are some knowledgeable folks here from Portland and elsewhere in Oregon; I imagine that they can fill you in on what they know.

You can also use the Search function (there's a button at the top of each THR page) to find previous threads where folks have posted details that you might find useful.

Again, welcome. :)

[Harlan]

Wow, thanks for the kind welcome!

[Aka Zero]

Just Remember any knife "designed to stab/wound/damage" will usually get backlash in court. Used to carry a ti-lite, loved the knife, pocket catch, blade was narrow, great for cardboard. But if I ever had to use it on someone for self defense, and the guy made it out alive (might happen unless he threatened my wife....) But all I can imagine in court is them showing a cold steel video of my knife.... not really good from a juries view.

I know carry spyderco, Have a few of the byrd line. Simpler looking knives, cheap to buy. And if modded to have a pocket catch, a knife out of the pocket into a hand open in .5 second is a bit scary to anyone. Not scary in court when " I have to cut a lot of cardboard boxes with one hand."

I can't get my ccw yet, (have to be 23 in missouri....) So I usually carry a dirty hard use knife (byrd, kabar folder, sometimes a fixed blade mora) in my top right pocket. And eternally in cargo pants I carry an always razor sharp crkt m21 3", for cutting food mostly. Because cleaning tape off a blade, isn't fun when you are hungry.

I will second some ideas though. A good pen. I like the big sharpies for non weapon weapons. I found at while bored that a bamboo chopstick can tear the top layer from plywood. And you can carry a set of chopsticks everywhere.

also: I had an old nokia "brick" cellphone, that I wanted to break... because... well no reason. I found out they are indestructible. I beat it against some concrete, I stood one foot one each half, while it bent over a dowel rod. Eventually decided to cut it in half, with a kukri. I can get 10 inches into half inch plywood with a kukri, I got through the outer plastic and keypad of this phone. I have no doubts that the newer non-flip nokias are just as strong.

[Harlan]

In Missouri since I was sixteen had a rifle and a shotgun in the back window, and carried a six inch fixed blade most of the time. Never had any worries untill the stopped allowing the guns in the school parking lot. I don't know how many times I lended my balisong to teachers asking if anyone had a pocket knife. I found in that state as long as your not trying to be sneaky about it the police are very accepting.

[pbearperry]

When I cannot carry a firearm, I carry a frozen leg of lamb.It can break bones and if I am attacked by a bear,I just toss him the meat and run.Can you say tongue in cheek?

[JShirley]

Guys,

The whole intent of this thread was what could you have when firearms weren't an option- and the OP specifically said "no knives".

J

[onebigelf]

Same thing I carry when I can carry. I'd rather explain my behavior to a judge than to St. Peter.

John

[Brian Dale]

...a frozen leg of lamb...Another Alfred Hitchcock fan, I see.

[Beskytte]

Well, I always carry a knife. I know it says no knives, but I have been around knives all my life, I'm comfortable with them. If I couldn't carry a knife with me, I could also carry some pepper spray, a yawara type device (for delivering more effective blows) such as a roll of quarters, a fat sharpie or the cold steel sharkie, or if you have to just find a dowel and whittle the end to a point for poking. When all else fails, start throwing rocks, punches, or people.

[Master of Arms]

Well no knives?? But thats what I carry when I cant carry#$% Sooorrryyy

[Sharpdogs]

One of these (http://edcdepot.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=7&products_id=222). I need the stylus for my GPS, iPhone, etc.

[Pax Jordana]

- and the OP specifically said "no knives".

Most of the time I spend de facto disarmed is on the ambulance - at which point I carry a cop :)

OK, ok, so they give me a radio and they hurry if I sound distraught.

I carry pens. And a flashlight. And EMT shears. Either of those first two items could be carried into a courthouse, on a plane..

I have much faith in writing implements as one-shot weapons. I always have an extra pen. Or two. First, in case you lose your primary pen. Second, you may have to run away after using one. Capeesh? :)

[Brian Dale]

Capeesh?Wakarimash'ta. ;)

[Todjaeger]

Most of the time I spend de facto disarmed is on the ambulance - at which point I carry a cop

OK, ok, so they give me a radio and they hurry if I sound distraught.

I carry pens. And a flashlight. And EMT shears. Either of those first two items could be carried into a courthouse, on a plane..


You forget, as an EMT you can administer "oxygen therapy" as well as supplemental iron via osmosis. Or if the portable 2000mL O2 tank is empty, just the iron supplement.

On a more serious note, there are a number of common, or not so common but sensible non-weapons that can be used offensively or defensively and people often have them.

A good sturdy belt can be used to either attack with like a whip, or used to block and entangle an attacker. It could also just be wrapped around a fist to make punching that much worse.

Another item it a good carabiner, I personally prefer the larger, locking climbing carabiners. Great thing to have keys strung from, and can also help protect the hand when blocking or punching. Nevermind what can be done with keys hanging from it.

-Cheers