[Deadman]

Does anyone know if there are any bolt action rifles chambered in pistol rounds other than the Ruger M77/44 or the Spanish Destroyer that are readily available?

Oh and before anyone asks why I would want a pistol cal. b/a rifle. There's no reason or logic to it, I just want one. I already have a 1894CP, M44 and a 7.62x39 Enfield carbine so I don't have much need for something like a Spanish Destroyer, but I still want one. And I'm now kicking myself for not buying a M1921 Destroyer while I had the chance....


And what ever happened to those 32-20 Savage M-23C's b/a rifles?

[Hutch]

If you keep your eyes open, you can sometimes run into a Remington 788 in .44M.

[TODD3465]

Actually something like that .500S&W would make a good rifle round for a carbine of some sort. It would have to be a custom job though for now.

[JShirley]

I was looking here (http://www.brockmansrifles.com/) for you, but can't seem to pull up Brockman's site.

[Jim Watson]

There have been reproductions of the deLisle Carbine:
http://www.valkyriearms.com/delisle.htm
It isn't cheap and I don't know YOUR laws on silencers (dummys available,) but it is probably THE most famous bolt action pistol calibre rifle.

[Ohen Cepel]

Great question! (I'll check back for myself)

Usually thought of as a lever gun issue.

Sorry, but I can't be of any help to you. Brain dead tonight.

[Brian Williams]

How about either a mini mauser action or a cz 22 hornet opened up to what you need or using the cz action in 223 and rebarreling to 357.

[Gewehr98]

My wife has a .45 ACP Mauser 98 carbine. It uses a 7-round 1911 magazine brazed through the magazine floorplate for feeding. Once I clean up my FTP site, I'll get some pictures posted. ;)

[Deadman]

Delisle carbine - US$1450. :eek: That would be roughly $2400 Australian. I could probably buy ten M44's for that... Besides no 'nasty' suppressor's allowed in Aus. :rolleyes:

CZ 527 - It did occur to me to buy one in .22Hornet or .223 and have it rechambered to something else, but the expense of the rifle and the rechambering would be too much for a simple desire.

Gewehr98 how difficult was it to alter the chamber/reciever from 8X57 to .45acp ( I assume the rifle started out as 8x57 or similar ) ?


Hmm, maybe I'll just have to keep my eyes open for a 2nd hand pistol calibre b/a or buy a Ruger M77/44...

[mummac]

The other day I had a dream that I was in a tree and had to shoot an aligator with a bolt action 9mm. It was a big aligator and all I had were 2 CCI Blazers. It was a strange dream but when I woke up it made me wonder if such a rifle existed anywhere but in my subconcious.

[Gewehr98]

It was a new/used .452 barrel blank. ;)

What was attractive was the fact that the Mauser 98's bolt face and extractor are already perfect for the .45 ACP.

[Mal H]

I'll second Hutch's advice on the Remington 788. That's a real sleeper of a rifle, 'strong like buull'. Very accurate. Unfortunately the .44 Mag models are harder to find than the .308 or 22-250, for example.

[Deadman]

Gewehr98, so the bolt faces are virtually similar (.48 vs .473) and you had a .45 cal barrel, how then did you go about altering/constructing the chamber/reciever? Or is there something else I'm missing?

[chevrofreak]

I have wanted a bolt action rifle with atleast a 20" barrel, chambered in 9mm for quite some time now. But, alas, no such creature seems to exist. :(

[Gewehr98]

The receiver wasn't altered at all. All we did was braze the 1911 magazine through the detachable floorplate, so that the magazine's forward edge was right next to the 98 Mauser's feed ramp. So it's kind of a cludge, in that a long-action Mauser is feeding and chambering the short little .45 ACP. If you want to extract and forcibly eject the fired .45 ACP rounds, you have to rack the bolt back far enough to hit the extractor. Otherwise you just pick them off the bolt face with your fingers. The gun was a "what if" proof of concept. At least they shortened the bolt in the DeLisle carbines. ;)

[Keith]

Look at this: http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976376872.htm

I'm about 99% sure that these will safely handle standard 9mm ammo - somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about that! At any rate, most people use these with standard 9x19 ammo.



Keith

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Keith, 9mm Luger won't headspace correctly in a 9mm Largo chamber (Largo is longer, I believer). However, one could remove the barrel and move the shoulder forward a couple milimeters and it should work perfectly then.

[Mal H]

:)
I just came back to say almost the same thing.

The 9mm Largo is a 9X23. If the rifles in the link somehow headspace on the rims (??), then it should be ok. Accuracy might suffer, but accuracy most likely isn't a trait of those rifles.

Otherwise I think the solution is as the SPE described it.

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Mal, you're right if the rifle is a controlled round feeder (rigid extractor). But if the extractor pops over the case head you'll just end up pushing the case too far into the chamber for the firing pin or extractor to get at it.

One could also locktite in a chamber ring, which should work just dandy at 9mm pressures.

[Keith]

Well, supposedly the extractor holds the round in place and it works just fine.
People have been doing this for years with these carbines. It must have been ten or twelve years ago when about a bazillion of these were imported and they were giving them away for $69 or so in Shotgun News. A friend of mine with an FFL bought several of these and that's what he was doing. I almost bought one but I just couldn't come up with a reason to own one at the time - as if I ever needed a reason to buy a gun!

It's probably not good for the gun, but I *think* it's safe to do this.

If somebody has better information and feels it is unsafe, then please feel free to contradict me! I do not want to put out information that could result in someone being hurt.

Keith

[Mal H]

If the extractor holds the round fast in place, it should be fine. If it doesn't, then you would have unpredictable ignition anyway not to mention the headspace problem.

Given that, I think the length of the 9X19 should be perfectly safe, just like shooting 38 Spcl in a .357 or .44 Spcl in a .44 Mag.

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

I agree it should be same. The down side is that the extra chamber is going to allow some gas blow-by and the bullet may do some damage to the Largo chamber rim. Probably doesn't matter.

My comments on the headspace are based on similar problems when reboring 7.63 broomhandles to 9mm. If there isn't enough material for a chamber rim they don't work.

[chevrofreak]

Do you think that the chamber on one of those Destroyers could hold up to .38 Super pressures? The reason I ask is that I can get .38 Super +P ammo locally for $8.99 a box.

[Ohen Cepel]

I haven't been able to test it for accuracy yet.

However, I have a 9mm adapter to fire in my .35 Whelen.

If you were going to use it as a single shot that may be an option. Or else you would have to have several of the adapters.

Only help I can be.

[Deadman]

Ohen Cepel thats not a bad idea, and I seem to remember Cabela's had some cartridge adaptors on their website.....


As far as firing 9x23 or .38 super in a Spanish Destroyer is concerned this website states not to - http://www.9mmlargo.com/destroy/index.htm

' The Destroyer Carbine, like all firearms using straight walled cartridges, headspaces on the mouth of the cartridge. When a cartridge shorter than the 23mm of the 9mm Largo is used, the cartridge case cannot headspace against the end of the chamber. This leaves only the extractor to hold the cartridge case against the breechface allowing the firing pin to impact the primer. This causes excessive wear and stress on the extractor, too much freebore (the distance from the bullet to the beginning of the rifling), and scoring of the chamber walls. The result of these abnormalities can result in broken/misshapen extractors, poor accuracy, and the inability to chamber and extract correct size cases.

The use of cartridges that produce too much chamber pressure is also discouraged. Yes, the .38 Super and 9x23mm Winchester will chamber in most 9mm Largo firearms, and if they will chamber they will fire. The metallurgy and design of the Destroyer Carbine was not developed to handle the pressure of these rounds. Use of these type cartridges in the Destroyer Carbine risks damage to the carbine and possibly yourself through a ruptured chamber and/or bolt lug failure. '

[Ohen Cepel]

I got my adapter from a guy in Alaska, Ace was him name I think. Usually has a small add in Shotgun News or Gun list.

Works well, but I never messed with it much. I would get the stainless if I got anymore from him though, less hassle.

He will make them in almost anything from what I can tell. He was a great guy to deal with!