Recommendations for a AR?


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Gunnerpalace
May 30, 2008, 06:44 PM
So an "What AR" thread but I am going to be more descriptive than others:

I want an AR that I can take a class with and otherwise pump ammo consistently, eg a AR for heavy use,

It has to be complete I don't want to assemble mine,

If it is possible under $2,000.

Is that helpful enough?

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Thernlund
May 30, 2008, 06:49 PM
Bushmaster I think will be a good pick. And it's half your price point.


-T.

thatguy123
May 30, 2008, 06:54 PM
For a little more then a Bushmaster you could get an LMT, many think it's a better gun (me included). For under 2k you can also try to get a Colt 6920/6921 or a Noveske as well, that price limit gives you tons of options.

halfacop
May 30, 2008, 07:07 PM
You can't go wrong with LMT, Noveske, Bushy, RRA etc.....

Hell - if your into spending the whole shot and trully going to run rounds thru it till there is no tommorrow...............

Get a piston gun. Or by a Bushy, RRA, etc and throw the piston conversion into it.

You could always go all out and buy the SIG 556!

Gunnerpalace
May 30, 2008, 07:12 PM
Bushmaster,

I saw a Thread that made me leery, but that being said I would really want one of the patrolmen M4's, or see if the MR223 will be available. Cool thanks. :D

Tarvis
May 30, 2008, 07:16 PM
Suggestion: build your own AR with a stripped lower and an AR kit from someplace like m-aparts.com (who I use), colemantyler.com (who I buy my lowers from), del-ton.com (long shipping delay from what I've been told), cmmg.com or any other place that sells kits. When you place your order they usually discount upgrades, like $20 for a $25 grip upgrade, etc. That way, you can get whatever furniture you want on it. If your budget is $2k, you could add on an ACOG and still be under, with money left for mags, ammo etc. If you went with cheaper optics, you could send the rifle in to get a piston put on it and still be under $2k. Not only would it be indeed "your rifle," it would force you to become familiar with the guts, making it easier to detail strip.

FWIW I can build a bare bones AR for $600 ($100 for lower if you buy 5 or more, $500 for a kit).

Also, check samplelist.com for discount optics.

Rugerlvr
May 30, 2008, 07:20 PM
Rock River, or Stag. Both use CMT parts. Excellent bang for the buck.

teombe
May 30, 2008, 07:20 PM
Start with an LMT lower + an LMT upper, with BCG and charging handle. This will get you in for about $965.

Add 10 or 20 magazines from Bravo Company ~ $100-$200

Get a good sling ~$30-$60, depending on what you go with.

Buy an Aimpoint + mount ~$550.

You are now good to go for about $1700

For a carbine class, you will likely need a way to attach a flashlight to your gun. This can be done cheaply, or it can be done by adding a railed handguard.

tjhjunk
May 30, 2008, 07:25 PM
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
Tim:D:evil::D.

taliv
May 30, 2008, 08:07 PM
if i were buying an AR for classes, with a $2k budget, it would be the following:

charles daly M4LE
aimpoint micro T1 with larue mount
magpul ctx stock
larue quad rail
ergo or miad grip
tango down stubby VFG
some sort of improved CH latch (but not one of the huge ones)

Gunnerpalace
May 30, 2008, 08:16 PM
I know of the chart, the chart dose not account for durability though.

I don't want to build my own either, good to go out of box, the upper+lower building is about as much as I want to do.

I have found a grip though (sorry I had to do this):

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=79173&stc=1&d=1212189321

trubiltman
May 30, 2008, 08:47 PM
I would take a serious look at the Charles Daly's. I have 2 of their rifles, and I can honestly say that I like them more than my RRA, SW, and DPMS. Alot of gun for the money, and great customer service.

Gunnerpalace
May 30, 2008, 08:55 PM
Charles Daly's

Thanks I didn't even know they had AR's, I do know they have an account here though.

Jst1mr
May 30, 2008, 09:33 PM
Check this out as an option:

http://http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/swmp15_121906/index.html (http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/swmp15_121906/index.html)

strat81
May 31, 2008, 09:43 PM
if i were buying an AR for classes, with a $2k budget, it would be the following:

charles daly M4LE
aimpoint micro T1 with larue mount
magpul ctx stock
larue quad rail
ergo or miad grip
tango down stubby VFG
some sort of improved CH latch (but not one of the huge ones)
Taliv has a good rig listed. For more on the D-M4LE, check http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=410.

I'm partial to Stag and would recommend you get a Stag 2. Add a Magpul CTR stock, Aimpoint M2, M3, or M4, and buy an extra bolt from Bravo Co. If you need a VFG, get an MI or YHM rail and call it good. Check www.ar15sales.com for a great deal. Their Stag rifle can be shipped to your door and all you need is a stripped lower to complete. That's less than $750 for a very good rifle that's made by one of the largest AR parts suppliers. And for that price, you can afford to get two carbines. The biggest drawback to the Stag is the 1/9" twist barrel. But if you won't be shooting 70gr+ ammo, it's a non-issue.

Whatever you get, at a mimimum, keep a spare bolt on hand for class.

Avenger29
May 31, 2008, 10:06 PM
Charles Daly
LMT
Noveske
Sabre Defense
Colt
(there are some other manufactorers that are of the same quality, but these are the biggies)

Why pay the bushmaster price when you can have an LMT for very little more?

Buy the upper and lower seperate, that will save you some money.

RRA and the other AR manufactorers that take the common commercial shortcuts do not hold up as well as the quality brands. I am in the process of the LMT route myself- got the lower now, and have the upper half paid for.

sarduy
May 31, 2008, 10:41 PM
for under 2k the list of AR's wont fit in a post, just pick the LOGO you like ;)

i'm working on mine, (getting the parts together) as sooon as time and money allow it,

i would recomend a top of the line Spike Tactical

http://spikestactical.com/catalog/images/Tan_Rifle.png

make sure to call and ask for the same rifle in their front webpage page ;)

taliv
June 1, 2008, 12:53 AM
strat, thanks for the link. i hadn't seen those pics. didn't realize he had his own forums

PCFlorida
June 1, 2008, 12:59 AM
Also take a look at Anvil Arms (http://www.anvilarms.com), top quality product with great customer service. Jon at Anvil is super guy. A member of this board too, he pops in now and then to answer questions, though I think he frequents ARFCOM more frequently.

cbrgator
June 1, 2008, 01:03 AM
How tested and true are the anvil arms? Can they stand up to vigorous use as the other quality brands can?

BullsEye10x
June 1, 2008, 01:08 AM
I like my Rock River Entry Tactical. Looked at a LOT of different rifles before I bought it. What ultimately sold me was the fit and finish; there was absolutely no play between the upper and lower receivers, and all parts were the exact same shade of matte black. It shoots MOA or better all day long with just about anything I feed it. I paid $865 OTD at a local gun show, so it wasn't the most expensive choice either.

W.E.G.
June 1, 2008, 01:12 AM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/AR-15/080527-AR-Comparison-Chart.jpg

Gunnerpalace
June 1, 2008, 01:25 AM
vigorous use

Thus my question, and yes I have seen the chart It does not take into the fact heavy use, like what I want.

taliv
June 1, 2008, 01:30 AM
not sure what you mean by heavy use not being taken into account. please explain

Gunnerpalace
June 1, 2008, 01:50 AM
Training class like stuff, I heard on some 250+ rounds in a day. ( I would not be doing classes consistently but would like to, and like to have a capable rifle)

That brings this question up, on a Colt 6920 is it legal to remove the "restricted LEO military" marking on the side.

possum
June 1, 2008, 02:32 AM
slr 15, stag, bushmaster, they will all last a training course and many more.and will serve you for a long time.

training courses can rane in round counts from little to more than youhave ever shot at one time, or maybe even more in one day/one course than most people will ever put through a rifle. there are many companies out there that make an ar that will make it through. the best thing to remember is to keep it wet, with the proper lube, ie gun butter, high temp lithium bearing grease. and you will be good to go.

RockyMtnTactical
June 1, 2008, 03:11 AM
LMT, Noveske, Stag Arms, Sabre, Smith & Wesson...

guntotinguy
June 1, 2008, 04:40 AM
I can only mention what I have to use...and they are reliable.My Rock River Entry Tactical and my Colt have been though a lot of use...never a problem.

cbrgator
June 1, 2008, 09:12 PM
and similar to gunnerpalace, my question regarding vigorous use of Anvil Arms is use far beyond general range plinking. Rapid fire, 1000 rounds over a weekend, etc. Not just sitting at the range and popping a few rounds off... can Anvil Arms withstand those abuses like the others have shown to?

marineman
June 1, 2008, 09:21 PM
I second what teombe was saying about the magazines and the sling. You can't beat Bravo Company's price on mags. It is something like 10 mags for $110 plus shipping or so. They are the good magazines too. I got a MAMBA sling which works great on my AR. As for optics, I will, more than likely, be getting a Trijicon. They are unrivaled telescopic AR scopes. However, if you go the red dot route, an Eotech or Aimpoint is the way to go.

Remember, if in doubt, stick to the big names. This applies to everything (Rifle, accessories, etc.). They didn't get recognition for producing crap.

marineman
June 1, 2008, 09:23 PM
Gunnerpalace, do you have a link to a site where I can buy the Glock pistol quadrail attachment? Thanks.

wdlsguy
June 1, 2008, 09:38 PM
do you have a link to a site where I can buy the Glock pistol quadrail attachment?
Please keep in mind that you need to register your Glock as a short-barreled rifle ($200 tax stamp) before attaching a stock to it. That includes attaching it to a rifle.

strat81
June 2, 2008, 10:53 AM
I haven't heard anything bad about Anvil Arms. I'd imagine their rifles will be as good as the components they build it from. Since they can do custom work, it'll depend on what you spec out.

And 250 rounds in a day is not much shooting. That's a casual afternoon.

Nikon777
June 2, 2008, 11:34 AM
Shrub..err Bushmaster sucks, so does DPMS. Stick with LMT, Colt, Noveske, or Stag, and upgrade the parts accordingly.

Gunnerpalace
June 2, 2008, 11:42 AM
do you have a link to a site where I can buy the Glock pistol quadrail attachment?

Site said LEO/Military only, sorry.


Now what about Grinding odd the LEO/Military Only marking on that colt?

Bartholomew Roberts
June 2, 2008, 12:24 PM
W.E.G. - nice chart upgrade.

marineman
June 2, 2008, 04:25 PM
Gunnerplace, please answer my question? I only asked for a link. Whether I can buy it and for what reason is an issue I will have to deal with.

Gunnerpalace
June 2, 2008, 06:54 PM
http://www.makosecurity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=UTA&Category_Code=


Here's the link
Not legally responsible for anything.

jpwilly
June 2, 2008, 07:30 PM
Shrub..err Bushmaster sucks, so does DPMS. Stick with LMT, Colt, Noveske, or Stag, and upgrade the parts accordingly.

I beg to differ. The DPMS rifles I own are far from sub par!

Ridgerunner665
June 2, 2008, 07:51 PM
I have a S&W myself (not one of the Stag built guns...mine left the factory 11-27-07. I bought it 3 weeks later) and it has served me well, its VERY accurate, only choked 1 time on an experimental load of mine...the powder was too fast for the 60 grain bullet I was firing...it was not the guns fault...and my M&P 15 ain't leaving me for ANY other AR.


BUT...The Charles Daly D-M4LE is the best buy...quality parts, mil-spec barrel, well fitted, and priced great for the components used.

garyhan
June 2, 2008, 08:10 PM
Bushmaster.

gary

PCFlorida
June 2, 2008, 10:03 PM
How tested and true are the anvil arms? Can they stand up to vigorous use as the other quality brands can?

CBRGator - I can tell you that my 2 AR's are not safe queens. Have put about 8K through my M4, many different brands, Federal, Remington, PMC and (sorry Jon) loads of Wolf MC. The only FTF I had was a magazine that I had dropped and bent the feed lips on. These are rock solid AR's, as well made as any, and IMO better than most.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z59/PCFlorida/AnvilCarbine02.jpg

SpeedAKL
June 2, 2008, 10:24 PM
For a carbine class, make sure you have plenty of mags. Never been in a class myself but from many a blasting-away experience at the range, the mags cause more problems than anything else, particularly ones with cheap followers. Also get a nice spare bolt carrier group just in case, as that is the second most common part to fail on an AR IIRC.

Jon_Anvil-Arms
June 3, 2008, 03:00 AM
Greetings Guys!

How durable are Anvil Arms guns? Please, come find out for yourself! Standing offer: bring 1,500+ rounds of ammo, I’ll bring some of our demo guns. You pick one or shoot them all. Shoot as fast and hard as you want. See for yourself it they meet your expectations for durability and reliability.

Anybody with any amount of AR experience knows full well that the shorter the barrel the harder it is to make it run reliably. Also, full auto is far harder to make run reliable than semi auto.

A central Florida Sheriff’s department did just that with several of our 11.5” full autos, and some 3 round burst guns, and far more ammo than just 1,500 rounds of ammo. After the demonstration they purchased 2 for long term testing. After months of back to back departmental classes and numerous SWAT call outs they have requested administrative approval to order several more.

Those SWAT guys beat up our guns far harder than your ever likely to and myself and my staff are even harder on them that the SWAT guys were.

What else can I say?

Jon Kruger
President, Anvil Arms LLC
Lakeland, FL.

863-398-4460

Email: Jon@AnvilArms.com

www.AnvilArms.com (http://www.AnvilArms.com)

Lifetime NRA Member (http://www.nra.org/)

ARFCOM Industry Partner (http://ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=244)

marineman
June 3, 2008, 09:33 AM
Thanks Gunnerpalace.

Jon_Anvil-Arms
June 3, 2008, 12:03 PM
Quote:
do you have a link to a site where I can buy the Glock pistol quadrail attachment?

Site said LEO/Military only, sorry.


Now what about Grinding odd the LEO/Military Only marking on that colt?

The reason those Glock mounts are for LEO/military only is that using them without the proper ATF/NFA registration instantly makes you a Felon. That particular crime is punishable by up to 10 years in the Federal house and a fine of up to $250,000 .. or both. The necessary registration is $200 and will take you a few months.

As for removing the LEO/military marking from your Colt (or any other brand) Those markings no longer have any legal status what ever. If you really want to muck up your gun you can try to remove them. I have seen several attempts by people to remove them, so far not a single one looked even 1/2 way decent. To properly do it you would need to weld over the markings, machine the welds down, and have the receiver completely professionally refinished.

The refinishing could not be anodizing because it would not look right. The different metals you have fused together will not take the anodizing exactly the same and you will have varying colors. You could Teflon coat it and end up with an evenly colored surface. The cost to do all that would likely be over $500.

I have seen numerous attempts to try to fill in the letters with various automotive body fillers and so forth. They all look like the art project of a 5 year old. I did see one that looked like a 10 year old did it. That one almost looked 1/2 way decent, still not good enough to pass as even "good" but it did start to get closer than any other I have seen.

If you were to grind the markings off you would be removing a significant amount of metal from the magazine well. To make it look right you would have to feather it in so that you had a smooth surface. This would require the removal of even more metal. I have had some (very minor) auto body experience and from that I would estimate that your feathering would need to start at the edge of the magwell and gradually get deeper until you have achieved the maximum depth of the roll mark. To do this smoothly and evenly so that it looked factory done would require either a very skilled craftsman or a very experienced milling machine operator. Even then you would end up with a concave surface, not a flat one. Unless of course you just machined the entire side of the magazine well to about ½ of the normal thickness. Not something I would even consider doing.

The markings never bothered me one way or the other. I find them a lot less “Offensive” than any of the results I have seen of trying to remove them.

You know it is really kind of funny, I have guys sending me receives all the time to be laser engraved with those same LEO/Military markings and then we have people all the time wanting to take the factory markings off... Maybe you guys should seek each other out and just trade receivers?


Jon K.

Smith
June 3, 2008, 12:12 PM
I've heard many complaints about Bushmaster. Personally, I'd go with Noveske.

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