[DigitalWarrior]

I want to find out what reasons we have for believing the republic to be intact, or to be falling apart. I would like to see specific events to illustrate the point. If you are really ambitious draw parallels to other failed republics.

I am sure the moderators will close this thread immediately if it becomes a religous debate. I respect the opinions of those who believe it may have something to do with God/Religion, but please do not mention it in this thread. You very well might be right. I would also like to ask fellow atheists to cease-fire.

[Thumper]

Just so we understand exactly what you mean by failed...

Have you ever seen, firsthand, a failed society? It's a lot uglier than anything I've seen here.

[JohnBT]

1. No.

2. More people are still trying to get into the U.S. than anywhere. And not very many leave, never to return.

John

P.S. - What in the world gave you the idea that it's failing? Is this a school assignment?

[DigitalWarrior]

I do not mean failed. I mean failing. The republic could be considered failed if it was no longer a republic (but became something else).

Often before something complex ceases to function there are signs it needs maintenance. When it exhibits these signs of functional decline, it is failing.

I am not believing that we are in immediate danger of turning into Liberia, but I am worried about us being the US in name only.

[Joe Demko]

No, it isn't. Lots of folks on the left and right are unhappy with particular aspects of society. The most shrill and hysterical of them point at those aspects and squeal that they are proof that the sky is falling.
Things aren't perfect. Things never will be perfect for everyone. Things have been worse.

[Graystar]

Our republic is coming along just fine.

The events of the Bush/Gore election would have cause a civil war in any other country.

The Davis recall shows that even when the citizens have no faith in their elected officials, they still have faith in the government they live by.

[Mark Tyson]

No. We have problems, but things are pretty good all around. We have a vibrant economy and a relatively high degree of personal and economic freedom. Elections are fair and problem free. Very few modern societies just decend into anarchy rapidly. Pre-revolutionary Russia was one, but it had deep rooted problems. America is still young and vibrant.

You want to see failed states? They're all over: Balkans, sub-Saharan Africa, Mideast, Central Asia . . .

[DigitalWarrior]

I see I didn't find out what people believe the republic is. I will in another thread. Thank you for clearing up my thinking.

[DigitalWarrior]

I will attempt to answer this and demonstrate my ignorance in the open.

I though a republic was a democracy that that had constitutional limits to government powers (propably not true in hindsight). I thought that the condition for it to fail would be for it to fail to obey it's constitutional limits the majority of the time, or the citizenry to call for the dissolution of the constitution.

It seems to me that citizens are demanding the abandonment of the principles of limited federal government powers set forth in the constitution. They want bread and circuses.

The fact that people are coming here in droves does not illustrate adherence to the principals of a republic. If we made a very comfortable socialist country, people would still come.

Thoughtful reflection and intelligent discourse is not solely the domain of school administrators. I have learned a lot by being open to new ideas while walking the high road. It is not a school project, but it is a personal improvement project.

[DaveB]

I dunno. To me the Cali recall is evidence of the collapse of the republic.

All it takes to overturn a 'free and fair' election is an expensive and clever PR campaign (that and the citizens' selective memory).

db

[Destructo6]

I dunno. To me the Cali recall is evidence of the collapse of the republic.
Right...when the least popular constitutionally elected official is removed (not quite yet, however) by an equally constitutional provision, that is no evidence of collapse. That's more an indication things are working better than ever.

If someone had pulled a Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus on him, I'd agree.

[DigitalWarrior]

I have heard that it is illegal to tell someone how a full-auto works, or how to make a conversion from semi-auto to full-auto.

If this is true it is the government jailing people for disseminating scientific knowledge. That seems to be counter free speech (no harm, incitement to panic, or fraud)

DMCA for the geeks is another atrocious (sometimes explenatives are warranted, but still not used in polite company). Discussion of software flaws can get you jailed.

[DaveB]

Well, something's working, but I maintain that it isn't the Republic.

Maybe it's democracy, but I suspect that it's just money.

Seriously, the initiative process is, as far as I'm concerned, simply a way around the electorial process. What I mean is that anyone with a grudge and some money can get almost anything to a vote.

I was under the impression that living in a Republic meant that we vote for citizens whom we trust to make the right decisions. There should be no logical place for a few well-financed axegrinders to say "No. Wait. We need to do it this OTHER way.".

If we're going to have initiaive-based democracy, we can save a bunch of money by doing away with elections.

db

cant spel

[Destructo6]

Well, the recall wasn't exactly an "initiative" in the legislative sense. It also required a significant number of signatures.

Initiatives are a way around the legislative process, not elective.

[dustind]

Compared to other parts of the world, and to history we are doing very well. Quality of life has improved, and continues to get better, but a lot of that is due to technology.

I also feel our constitutional republic is getting worse. There seems to be more and more unconstitutional infringements of freedom all the time, and the federal government is over stepping its bounds. There are countless abuses by federal agencies and I see that as getting worse before it gets better. A pessimist could say that anyone who thinks things are going well does not know what is going on. I believe America is the best thing now and ever, but it does have some faults.

[NewShooter78]

I think that the biggest problem isn't the growth of intrusive federal government goings on, but that people are letting them happen. The media and the government have created and aire of fear in this country, and the sheeple are willingly pulling the wool over their eyes.

Those of us on here try our best to get the word out, but we get drowned out by the mass media. Before I started hanging out at the firing line, and now here, I had never even writen to one of my congresscritters before. Now I have written them multiple times and feel more involved than ever in the governmental process. But most people vote every now and again and feel content that they have done there part.

[Art Eatman]

Watching governmental behavior that seems to be unconstitutional, I fear for the Republic. After seeing the Clintons win elections, it seems to be too late for Society itsownself.

Art