[dav]

I'm really pretty upset right now, so I hope I can present this clearly.

We are distributors, and deal in chemicals, so we have to go through DOT training on a regular basis. This is simply how to deal with the regulations, and with transporting chemicals (hazardous materials) and with spills or accidents.

No problem there.

But this year they added a new 1/2 hour computer presentation on Security. It's emphasis was:

watch out for anyone suspicious
if you do not know them, they might be a terrorist
if you do know them, they *still* might be a terrorist
it could be anybody, white, black, Al Qaeda, Bin Laden (they showed his picture a lot while saying "don't categorize")
It is your responsibility to prepare for terrorist activities, mostly by spying on people at work

This is truly scary stuff, sounds EXACTLY like what I was taught the Nazis did in Germany before exterminating millions.

Also sounds EXACTLY like a government trying to frighten its citizens into giving up more constitutionally protected rights.

Habeus Corpus? Never heard of it!
What do you mean we can't search your house? What are you hiding?

The presentation was titled " Hazmat Transportation Security Awareness Training".

Am I simply paranoid, or is this really scary?

David Row
San Diego

[Mark Tyson]

Sounds as if they just want you to be alert and not assume anything, that's all.

[Baba Louie]

Remember in the 50's, the infamous McCarthy witch-hunts? Good, bad or indifferent, it was an active gov't looking for "Reds".

Sounds like your presentation was limited to "keeping your eyes and ears open."

Was there any "Report this activity to...?" That's the part that I tend to worry about.

It's one thing to keep aware of potential threats to you, me, our community and the nation as a whole (like I could actually stop a human suicide bomber or report it in time... well, I guess it has been done elsewhere), it's another to drop the dime without specific proof positive.

Interesting times in which to live.

Smile at everyone you meet, but have a plan to neutralize any bad action on their part.

But... what if??? (don't you just love what if's?) It was your school for commercial pilot training and you thought that things... just didn't feel right about a group of individuals taking classes?

Or you sold fertilizer?

Or... name the scenario and think it through. Some things are worth being concerned/worried about if you're an aware, thinking individual.

That's all.

Enjoy life. It's short.

Adios

[dav]

There is a government website where you can get the CD or download the presentation (watch out... 118 Meg file).

http://hazmat.dot.gov/hmt_security.htm

So far everyone agrees I'm too paranoid. If anyone has the time/inclination to watch this presentation, I would value their opinion after they have seen it.

It is not, in my opinion, simpy an "awareness" issue. They are attempting to instill fear and prepare people for the government to take away constitutionally protected rights in the name of the fight on terrorism.

If after you watch it you still think I'm taking it to seriously, I'll up my meds. :p

Thanks.

[Hkmp5sd]

Remember in the 50's, the infamous McCarthy witch-hunts? Good, bad or indifferent, it was an active gov't looking for "Reds".

You might want to read Treason by Ann Coulter. The infamous McCarthy witch-hunts were fiction. About on par with todays assault weapons and Saturday night special anti-gun fiction handed down by the mass media.

[Newton]

More over-reaction. A couple more succesful terrorist attacks such as sucicide bombings (can't figure out why they haven't tried these), or sniper attacks, and things will start to get insane real fast.

This isn't the end, it isn't even the beginning of the end, rather, it is the end of the beginning.

With apologies to Winston Churchill (now there was a true Statesman).

[rick_reno]

"Forced"? You should be able to get up and walk out if it bothers you. While your employers might make you perform onerous tasks at work - no one is forcing you to be there. Quit.

[Standing Wolf]

Am I simply paranoid, or is this really scary?

Even paranoids have enemies.

Seriously: if the company's paying you, you're morally obligated to sit through the speeches; taking them at face value, however, is another matter altogether. There are plenty of people who believe the only security resides in giving up our freedom, but they're fools. Debating them is like trying to reason with leftist extremists or argue with rabid skunks: pointless.

[Hkmp5sd]

In order to keep my job, I'm required to attend numerous propaganda classes on an annual basis. Some of which are sexual harrassment, ammonia safety, natural gas/pipe line safety, violence in the workplace, confined space entry, spill containment (EPA) and various "positive attitude" type classes. About the only useful one is CPR/First Aid.

Sometimes, you just gotta go with the flow and tough it out. I've found that the small pocket video games or a Gameboy work wonders in getting through the classes.

[greyhound]

sucicide bombings (can't figure out why they haven't tried these),

**Shudder** This is where I thought we were going after 9/11. Can you IMAGINE the histeria that would erupt if a rash of these broke out?

Sweet Jeebus, sometimes I think there's nothing that will get the public to stop putting their #1 priority on Ben and J-Lo, and other times I think we're a sleeping tiger. But then again, I was wrong when I thought 9/11 would wake the sleeping tiger.

[seeker_two]

In order to keep my job, I'm required to attend numerous propaganda classes on an annual basis. Some of which are sexual harrassment...

I remember my first sexual harassment class. It was taught by this tall, leggy blonde who wore miniskirts & low-cut blouses on a daily basis...

It was THEN that I realized that God had a sense of humor... :evil:

[Leatherneck]

It was THEN that I realized that God had a sense of humor... :D :D :D

TC
TFL Survivor

[4v50 Gary]

If you're paid to listen to BS, remember the bottom line is that you're being paid. It's not that bad when you consider that for that half hour or so you don't have to crunch numbers, walk around, answer the phone, or whatever you have to do on the job.

There will be a test at the end of the training. ;)

[bogie]

And safety isn't BS.

We've got labs where I work where HCL and potassium cyanide are both present. You can BET that I know what to do in event of an emergency. Likewise with other safety stuff.

It's only boring until you need it...

[Hkmp5sd]

You can BET that I know what to do in event of an emergency.

So an 8 or 16 hour refresher class every year is beneficial to you? I still remember the nuclear safety regulations from riding a submarine 20 years ago.

[Jeff White]

Hi Dave,
Your class sounds a lot like the old SAEDA (Subversion, And Espionage Against Defense Activities) we all had to have annually during the good old days of the cold war. More like always be aware that this could happen and trust your gut instincts.

I just sat through Blood Borne Pathogens and HAZMAT First Responder Refresher Training.

We probably need to go back to a shooting school to de-stress :D. I understand ITTS is putting on a handgun course in Vegas in Oct....

Jeff

[shooten]

Hey David,

I swear I'm not a terrorist.

It is your responsibility to prepare for terrorist activities, mostly by spying on people at work

This part seems pretty bad. I can see situational awareness being important but spying has no place in a healthy workplace (except the CIA).

I work with a large number of muslims. Many of them I consider to be friends. I'll always have my eyes open and would have no problem taking action if I thought my life or my companies safety was jeopardy. Actively spying is something that I won't do.

When are we going to the range again?

Scott

[dav]

Interesting.

I guess I am just paranoid.

I don't mind sitting through training. Some of it was even true and useful.

I refused to sign the required statement at the end of it where I promised to do what the movie said, though, so they fired me.

I'm going to be off the board for a while guys.

Bye

[Jeff White]

David,

Send me an e-mail or PM....

Jeff

[MPFreeman]

If you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.

[hops]

Downloaded and watched it. Does not seem all that un-american. At least they did not ask you to keep a daily diary of your co-workers actions, to be reported daily to your HomeLandSecurity officer. While a lot of it was dedicated to 'terrorism', be it foreign or domestic, quite a lot of the information also applies to the 12-30 billion dollars of theft that occurres yearly in the transport system.

[JohnBT]

"The infamous McCarthy witch-hunts were fiction."

They never happened? But I saw some of the tapes. I'm confused. You mean no lives were ruined, no blacklists were compiled?

John

[HBK]

There were communist agents in our government. McCarthy outed them. Nobody's life got ruined that didn't deserve it.

[Erik]

"Am I simply paranoid, or is this really scary?"

Paranoid, since you asked.

"Sounds as if they just want you to be alert and not assume anything, that's all."

Ditto.

[Stinger]

Hkmp5sd,

Are you one of her employees?

I would put the credibility of that right up there with anything written by Al Franken, or Rush Limbaugh. :barf:

Basing one's beliefs about history on one innaccurate, irrelevant, and just plain wrong account is somewhat dangerous.

McCarthyism didn't happen?!? :rolleyes: :scrutiny:

Stinger

p.s Here is a link to her site. Talk about propaganda.

http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2003/062503.htm

[C.R.Sam]

Gotta hand it to dav.
Beliefs firm enough to lose job over them.

Hope better comes soon.

Sam

[Mike Irwin]

Do what I do.

Sleep through this crap.

[C.R.Sam]

Wouldn't have helped dav Mike.
He was required to sign an agreement...and wouldn't.

Sam

[rick_reno]

When I worked for a very large semi-conductor company, we were required to sign crap like this all the time. This was before the "War on Terror" and most of the "agreements" revolved around intellectual property rights. The very large semi-conductor company believed they owned your thoughts 24X7.

My attorney and friend (a senior corporate lawyer in this very large semi-conductor company) advised me to just cross out the objectional sections of the document, initial and date the areas crossed out and sign it. Having done what I was told to do ("Sign the document"), I couldn't be accused of that horrible crime of the workplace INSUBORDINATION. Insubordination was one of the many justifications they would use to walk employees out the door.

[Mike Irwin]

You know, I still sleep through stuff like this. If I'm required to sign something, I scrawl an illegible signature, and immediately forget about it.



"There were communist agents in our government. McCarthy outed them. Nobody's life got ruined that didn't deserve it."

With absolutely no respect, that's the biggest bucket of crap that's ever been slung on these forums. McCarthy was a lying, drunken imbecile who didn't care about differentiating between the honest and the guilty. The tactics he used were those used by the Nazis and the Soviets, and people's lives were ruined based on innuendo, rumor, and fraudulent "evidence" that he threatened, coerced, and cajoled out of people. True or not, it didn't matter.

Were there Communist agents in the goverment? Yes, there were.

Was everyone who had ever belonged to an organization later deemed to be Communist or subversive a Red Agent in America? No.

No due process, no ability to face your accusers, secret files, black lists, covert FBI investigations, etc.

It can be reasonably argued that EVERY American, whether named as a member of a so-called subversive organization or not, was actually a victim of Joe McCarthy.

[Stinger]

that's the biggest bucket of crap that's ever been slung on these forums

...And there's been some awfully darn big buckets! :what: :what:

Your analysis of McCarthy is dead-on accurate.

I really hope they were joking, Mike. If not, it really scares the heck out of me that people can be completely brainwashed.

I guess the Holocaust didn't happen either. :rolleyes:

Stinger

[0007]

After the publication of the Verona(?) file it apparently turned out that nasty, old, drunken Joe was right more often then he was wrong. A few people may have been wrongly accused by him, but the very fact that he was and continues to be so vilified by the lib/soc/com left-wing says that he probably did severe damage to their cause at the time. Kind of like the Hess/Chambers thing. John Wayne, Ward Bond, and Ronald Reagan supposedly commented after the Washington hearings that the only reason they were able to wrest control of the actors union from the communists who were running it was because so many of them went to the hearings...

[Mike Irwin]

It's the Venona papers.

And yes, McCarthy actually did ferret out a few Communist agents.

And wreaked far too much unnecessary suffering and havoc along the way.

It's also VERY likely that McCarthy's grandstanding hystrionics (sp?) did far more damage in the long run than good by driving existing Soviet agents deeper underground and by making up the minds of some who were on the fence that it would be a good thing to be a Soviet agent if the US governemnt was going to be as bad as the Soviet.

To modify the saying, even a blind drunk, lying pig can find an acorn occasionally.

[bogie]

watch out for anyone suspicious

Doh - of course!


if you do not know them, they might be a terrorist

Maybe. Maybe not. Think.


if you do know them, they *still* might be a terrorist

Not likely, but hey, a healthy dose of suspicion if someone is buying 20 tons of fertilizer might be in order...


it could be anybody, white, black, Al Qaeda, Bin Laden (they showed his picture a lot while saying "don't categorize")


Heh - they want you to think.


It is your responsibility to prepare for terrorist activities, mostly by spying on people at work


Well, that's likely where a person who deals with transporting hazmat/chemicals is GOING to see someone plotting terrorist activities.


This is truly scary stuff, sounds EXACTLY like what I was taught the Nazis did in Germany before exterminating millions.



Actually, it's a lot closer to what the United States did during WWII - Keep an eye on the shores, keep an eye out for spies, etc.

Have been thinking of this, and I've got to tell you.

I think you SERIOUSLY OVERREACTED.

And I think you oughta go have a talk with your boss, apologize, and sign the dang thing.

Why?

It's Department of Transportation training - and the security bit sounds like common sense.

There ARE suspicious people out there. That's a given. If someone walks up to your front office, and wants to buy a whole load of stuff that can be used to make a bomb, you're supposed to THINK about it at least. Is the person a new customer, or someone who's ordered the same stuff for the past 10 years? Do they look like a follower of Osama? (and they can't tell you to profile, but they can sure show his pix...)

They're not asking to spy on your coworkers, unless the new guy is named Abdul, and keeps muttering about the Great Satan in Washington.

Personally, I think that the next major terrorist attack will come via 18 wheeler... possibly "legitly" purchased, but also possibly hijacked... I've seen numerous "keep your eyes out" signs in truck stops, etc., and I _agree fully_ with the concept. I do NOT want to see a gasoline tanker driven into a grade school, or something of the sort.

Reconsider, swallow your pride, and go talk to your boss.