[Lexter]

Does anyone have an idea when we will start seeing (and fondling) these in the stores?



Lexter in NC

:cool:

[JackDRipper]

Read this link. JR
http://www.berettaforum.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000140

[Lexter]

I'm not able to get the link to work...is it me?



Lexter

[Ringer]

Must be you, here is the basic message in the thread.


Author Topic: CX4 Storm 2003 production is sold out
Repairman
Member
Member # 2044

posted 08-14-2003 09:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just got the word from the factory that the 2003 production run is completely sold out. The 2004 schedule has not yet been formulated. If you order now, your credit card will supposedly not be charged until the order is filled.

--------------------
Is it snowing yet? -and- Yes honey, I'm going hunting again tomorrow





slavex
Member
Member # 583

posted 08-16-2003 02:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted this info months ago. BUSA has sold all of the 2003 production to LE agencies.

--------------------
Rob E

[Mannlicher]

Just another over priced plastic gun.

[JerryN]

Right. Just like Glock, et al. I hope everybody feels like you do. That way I'll get mine quicker! :rolleyes:

[swingset]

Yet another piece of gun-gadget "chum" tossed into the water, whetting the appetites of the Gotta Have It sharks - many of whom haven't even held this gun. Sight unseen, it's irresistable.

At the factory (coldly calculated), they trickle out small numbers to keep the frenzy going, creating unrealistic demand, higher prices, blah blah blah....

I don't get into these "I can't have it so I must have it" deals. You wanna sell me something, it better be available. Come to think of it, why don't I buy a 40 watt plasma rifle, as they're probably "in production" somewhere too.:rolleyes:

[JerryN]

good grief :rolleyes:

[Newton]

The CX4 looks like a real winner.

I do however remember how excited everyone got about the Beretta 9000, until that was, they actually handled one.

As a side note, the exterior design on the CX4 was done by the same person (Giugario ?), I'll keep my M1 Carbine for now thanks, and *cough* my Beretta 9000.

[Skunkabilly]

I think this'll make a great car gun. Too bad I can't :banghead: get one :banghead: in :cuss: California :cuss:

[cordex]

So move over here, Skunk.

[Skunkabilly]

In due time my friend ;)

Skunks. Legalize, don't criticize :D

[Coot]

It seems Beretta has released some CX4s for general sale...have one being shipped as I write this. I'll post the cost as soon as I know.

Later

[mattd]

How much? And can anyone say something bad about this rifle, besides it being plastic and not oak wood and that its expensive. Who else sells a rifle like this besides something like a mp5?

[355sigfan]

Yea can hardley contain my enthusiam for this over sized pistol. Yep just what I need a carbine offered in an assortment of wimpy pistol calibers. Sorry when I grab for a long gun I want a longgun round like a 556, 308 or a 12 gauge.
Pat

[Onslaught]

Sorry when I grab for a long gun I want a longgun round like a 556, 308 or a 12 gauge.
Yep, since the ONLY reason to own a firearm is to KILL STUFF!
:rolleyes:

9mm rifle - A .22 for people who want more bang and kick than a .22 has to offer... Thats enough reason for me.

I don't even have to go into "easier to aim, more accurate than 9mm pistol", or my favorite "if everybody thought just like you, who would you yell at in traffic?"

:neener:

[Warner]

Easy there cougar, your slip is showing....

As long as we’re digressing a smidge here, I’d like to offer an opinion or two on this pseudo weapon phenomenon I see of late.

I first must congratulate the vast advertising machine out there that even allows such a product to be taken seriously, and actually entice some folks to want one. Hey – I also read the gun mags, and I frequent the gun forums. I always liked the Star Wars screen antics and always marveled at how nobody ever got hit when the “A-Team” was blasting away on TV.

But over the years, I never did allow “A-Team” tactics, or a magazines so-called “gun reviews” or almost anything posted on a dedicated AR forum to be internalized, and then taken seriously. Too much legitimate information is out there to make such mistakes.

I believe that most who would purchase something like this are the very same sorts of folk that always seem to be making the rest of us shake our collective heads (in disbelief) on occasion. We do this when we notice them make their attempts to navigate in other aspects of our world.

While a case can be made for an exotic plinker, I have absolutely NO confidence that most owners of these toys can properly categorize them. The very same feelings, desires and justifications that first allowed them to make such a purchase would certainly muddy-up the waters (in their decision making process) if and when circumstances arose where they’d actually need to go for a gun. I have little doubt they’d grab one of these, and offer the same “reasons” we’re seeing now.

It’s only then that the colossal shortcomings of such a piece will be made clear to these special souls. Of course it will be too late then, and sadly the only positive aspect may be some improvement in the gene pool.

Could the rest of ever-even hope to contain our “I told you so’s ”

For me, I will continue to warn anyone that I truly value, about the monumental pitfalls of buying into Madison Avenue’s BS – especially when weapons are involved.

A sense of purpose…. it’s a beautiful thing.

[mattd]

How about a home protection weapon for people who are 18 or over and under 21 who can't buy a pistol and want something in a pistol caliber.

[Coot]

Humm...exactly when did this forum become a troll haven for egotistical gasbags?

[Steve Smith]

Ok, we all have our opinions about this piece, but I'm sure some folks can get some real use out of it. Let's try not to belittle each other because of our gun purchases, ok?



:)

[clown714]

they had one at the local show last weekend.

IIRC,price was $650.

picked it up and set it back down.

just not my cup of tea;)

clown

[starfuryzeta]

It seems Beretta has released some CX4s for general sale...have one being shipped as I write this. I'll post the cost as soon as I know.

Any idea how many they released and where they might be headed?

[longeyes]

355sigfan summed up my own view exactly.

I'm waiting for the Kel-tec SU-16. Now that one looks intriguing.
Moreover, it might be buyable here in CA.

[longeyes]

9mm is a good round.

In a Glock 26.

:D

[mattd]

Some people can't own a glock 26. And some people don't need the long range power of a 5.56 or a 7.62. I'm still waiting for someone to say something bad about this rifle besides its in a handgun caliber.

[355sigfan]

Its not that you need the long range power of the 223 or 308. You need the up close stopping power of these rounds. Handgun rounds are designed to fit in guns that are portible and easily carried and concealed. They are not built for power. The stopping power gap between the best handgun rounds and the 223 is huge. The 223 also poses less risk of over penetration inside typical homes. Its a winner all the way around. Now if beretta makes this in a 223 someday they might have something.
Pat

[Correia]

Look, I've got serious guns, and I've got fun guns. I've already got about half a dozen other weapons that work just fine for defending my home.

If somebody wants to buy a gun that doesn't happen to meet your mission specific criteria, boo freaking hoo. Let them buy their gun, it is their money. I haven't seen any of the CX4 fans on this thread talking about it being their be-all-end-all home defense anti-riot weapon or whatever.

If a thread comes up about using pistol caliber carbines as a serious weapon, feel free to argue the point that they are better off with a .223. And some of you guys, did Pierto Beretta beat up your great grandpa or something? Geez, everybody chill out.

[mattd]

The .223 is made to wound, not to stop. The 9mm or .45 are perfect rounds for home defense. A .308 I'm guessing will go through a house before stopping. I live around alot of people with paper thin walls and don't want to take the chance of shooting one of them. But I guess all the SWAT teams and elite anti terrorist groups around to world are forced to use the mp5 9mm, but I think they are moving to the .45acp(which the cx4 comes in).

[gun-fucious]

ya know, just to round out the ole collection,
a pistol caliber carbine is a current blank spot

now i could buy a 9mm upper for my AR
or spend a grand on an HK USC
or look into a vector UZI

this puppy takes full cap beretta 92 mags
and 30 rounders are available cheap

30 rounds in a modular 9mm carbine with swapable ergos and mag wells

now maybe 9mm is not an ideal dangerous game round
but it does beat a sharpened stick for making tin cans dance

rather than squeezing a .223 round into the handgrip (good luck)
i would love to see a .17 hrm CX Storm

Toss on a brown leather sling, and a foreward mounted red dot
and we have the TFL Lemming scout rifle

:evil:

[Kurt]

I’m one who also doesn’t like the very premise of this gun, or most rifle length weapons that fire pistol rounds.

Ask yourself if you really think Beretta envisions this creation as simply a “fun” gun. Even their core advertising for this gem says, “ designed to meet the needs of law enforcement” That tells me that either they are about as confused as one can get, or they’re stretching things a whole lot to make more sales to the naïve shooter.

You never know when life will hand you a reason to need a gun. When it does, it’s best to surround yourselves with models that have a clearly defined purpose. You’ll make fewer mistakes that way.

Thanks!

[Correia]

Kurt, that ain't just marketing. How many umpteen thousand MP5s has HK sold to US police departments?

[Kurt]

IMO that's apples and oranges. Subguns are short in length and their cyclic rate put them in a different category entirely.

[Correia]

True, but who says the LEO Berettas are going to end up having 16 inch barrels? The first year of production is going out to them for the most part, figure they will try them out, and if they like them then I expect to see select fire short versions next year.

[Kurt]

Again I offer you some fruit Correia. The CX4 being discussed in these posts is neither a short weapon, nor a select fire one.

I can't imagine saddling an LEO with a long gun that's little more effective than his sidearm. That's what Beretta's pushing in their ads.

[Correia]

Kurt, I'm not a fan of pistol caliber carbines myself, heck, I think .223 is a pretty wimpy round. :)

However a carbine is going to be a lot more effective to get hits with than a pistol. So in that respect it is a step up from a handgun, even if they are firing the same cartridge.

I'm still expecting to see a shorter select fire version pop up shortly if any departments express interest after playing with the current version.

[Kurt]

Correia, agreed on the .223!

I've been an LEO. Rifles are almost always kept in the trunk, and that means an LEO has to go and get it, and probably under some trying circumstances. It often occupies both of his hands, and usually isn't as familiar to him as his sidearm. With all this going on, it would be more than nice if that rifle gave him or her a real improvement over his sidearm. A contraption like the CX4 does not.

I believe Beretta mentions law enforcement in their ads for the CX4 to get the attention of those naive shooters. LEO's usually are provided their guns, or already know what really works - usually.

[Nightcrawler]

FWIW, many SWAT teams (and, IIRC, the Navy SEALs) use their 9mm submachine guns on semiauto most of the time. It's more accurate that way.

[ny32182]

.223 is to weak? What do you guys keep by your bedside, a .308? .30-06? Jesus. :scrutiny:

I think the final version of the storm would have to be short and select fire, basically competing against the MP-5. Which means it would basically have to demonstrate superiority to said weapon in order to win real market share, at least with LE. Just my prediction.

[Nightcrawler]

Oftentimes your typical patrol officer isn't issued a submachine gun. Many police agencies give their non-SWAT cops the MP5SF carbine; essentially an MP5 but without the full auto trigger group.

And I keep a 12 gauge by my bedside. A single shot non-tactical model, no less.

[355sigfan]

The .223 is made to wound, not to stop
END

False even with typical military ball it does an excellent job of stopping. This is a myth that it was designed to just wound. WIth Softpoints and jhp's they are even more devastating.
Pat

[Kurt]

The multi-layer support system enjoyed by SWAT personnel and our military is a bit different than a homeowner standing basically alone. Again, these situations are different, and those differences are substancial and shouldn't be passed over too lightly.

[Larry Ashcraft]

I think they would make a great truck gun. Around here, you may see a coyote in a field 50 yards away, and there are houses within half a mile, so the pistol caliber would be safer. I think I'll get mine in .45 though.

Besides, I WANT one. :D

I know...
.223 is better (I have one).
Garand is better (I have one).
30 Carbine is better (I have one).
Shotgun is better (I have some).
.17 HMR is no good (I have one).

[CZ52GUY]

...by the anti-carbine (pistol caliber conversion) crowd.

No one is forcing anyone to buy these things (for private use).

Some LEO's resent that mfg's make these things and pol's find it convenient in budget crunching mode to under-gun their officers...that I can respect.

The so-called righteous indignation against the premise of a pistol caliber long gun is baffling.

I have a PC9. It provides me with an indoor range compliant sub 2000 fps shoulder fired alternative to a 22lr during the winter months (when I'm not trudging through hip deep snow for an AK plinking excursion).

The "Judge Dredd" characteristics of this (and the HK USC) intrigue some folks...

...as the mod's have said, live and let live.

Bottom line, both sides of this debate vote with their wallets, there will be few "forum conversions" on this topic.

Rant over...

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=13145202

I've purchased from this guy before...great to deal with...if you have the itch, and he can get it for you, he'll give you a fair price.

CZ52'

[Nightcrawler]

The so-called righteous indignation against the premise of a pistol caliber long gun is baffling.

Yeah...I mean come on, who cares? "Oh, waaah, my AR-15 is SO-O-O much better!" Geez you guys. Does EVERY rifle discussion have to involve someone going on about the supposed superiority of the AR-15?

[Warner]

Yes.

The problem isn't if anybody wants one of these, of if they are indoor range compatible, or even what the mods think about them. The problems will occur when it's owner thinks/feels/believes it's something it's not, and makes his or her plans from that position.

Beretta's marketing these as some LE item just serves to further confuse some folks. These howls of indignation over the bashing of these poodleshooters, should be simply considered the baby steps towards a safer future for the howlee

If even one forum member is saved....hasn't it been worth it? :neener:

[CZ52GUY]

...fired from a 16" barrel

...is something that NO-ONE wants to be on the receiving end of

Those that consistently bash these firearms do not understand that one can own practical tools (I have 3 AK's, HD Shotgun, and numerous Autoloading handguns) as well as recreational items (22LR long gun, 9mm carbine, 7.62 x 25 shootable collectible, trap shot gun).

Does Beretta's marketing deserve scrutiny? Yes

Does it have relevance to whether or not I choose to purchase a CX4? For me, the answer is No

Does anyone else get a vote?
Nope

This guy seems to really love his...

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143370



Best wishes,

CZ52'

[355sigfan]

Does EVERY rifle discussion have to involve someone going on about the supposed superiority of the AR-15?


__________________

END

Actually we were talking about the 223 vs pistol caliber carbines. Not necessarily the AR15 vs any particular pistol caliber pop gun. I don't care the the 9mm Colt AR15 carbine either. Yes you can own what you want. What I am opposed to is some poor officer being armed with one of these instead of a real longgun.
Pat

[CZ52GUY]

What I am opposed to is some poor officer being armed with one of these instead of a real longgun.


...but denying civilians inappropriately marketed recreational guns is not the solution to your problem.

I recall a story about a woman shot at point blank range by her ex...the officers responding only had sidearms and one SG. Thankfully she lived...thankfully the perp turned the gun on himself and will not be shooting anyone any more.

Pol's who under-gun LEO's put us all at risk.

Beretta and others need to hear your concerns, so do the Pol's, so does the public.

However, civilians retain the right to choose that which they choose to purchase for their chosen purpose.

Best wishes,

CZ52'

[Warner]

Nobody wants to get shot ...... period - with anything. Heck, I got a surprise hit with a soccer ball today that I could have done without. It goes to relevancy. If you fully realize that what you have amounts to a plinker when armed with one of these, I can let things rest.

Want an example of this crappola infecting the naive? Try a situation right on this thread. A member posted that they think the Beretta would make a GREAT car gun. Holy smoke! During any "I REALLY need a gun!" situation, that puts them at a disadvantage when compared to even the average hunter equipped individual. It's also MUCH slower into action than an identical calibered pistol, and it cannot even be concealed properly.

[CZ52GUY]

...to protect your family.

If you fully realize that what you have amounts to a plinker when armed with one of these, I can let things rest.

No one has allocated to you sir the choice of weapon that anyone uses to protect themselves or those they care about. They retain that choice.

If a pistol with a 4" barrel is a legitimate source of protection, and many believe it is because they carry them religiously, a shoulder fired alternative with a 16" barrel will only enhance the destructive power of the cartridge that is fired.

If a 7.5 lb shotty can be wielded effectively to stop a prowler, a 5.5 lb carbine can be more effectively manipulated by the small of stature, or those of the fairer sex.

A pistol caliber carbine is a hybrid, despised by some, embraced by others.

I concur that it has very limited LEO value.

I believe its primary value is as a recreational firearm.

I do not concede that on its face, a shoulder fired platform which can launch a pistol caliber cartridge at speeds exceeding a hand held is merely a plinker without any potential HD benefit.

If it can send a bullet downrange, it can make a BG have a very bad day.

There are more conventional alternatives that make more sense, but the arguments mentioned heretofore do not provide incontrovertible evidence that a pistol caliber carbine is a "fools choice" for protection.

Regarding your conditions for "letting things rest", I respectfully "fully realize" nothing of the sort.

The "fools choice" for protection, is believing that simply dialing 911 or AWBANS or pre-emptive Ballistic Fingerprinting or Marching around with 999,999 others criticizing lawful ownership and use of firearms can provide essential security without fear of dangerous consequences.

We each need to take substantive measures to provide for our own protection, leveraging LEO to provide necessary assistance. If someone can lawfully procure and obtain a level of proficiency with a pistol caliber carbine, I respect their right to make that choice. I do not, nor does anyone, have the right to belittle their choice. They, and they alone, retain that responsibility.

If they choose a CX4, and learn to use it well, I respect their choice and wish them the best. A CX4 is certainly more effective than "stop", or I'll yell "stop again".

Best wishes,

CZ52'

[gun-fucious]

theres a LEO/Mil suppressor:
http://www.hermumarket.es/legion/articulos/

[Preacherman]

I'm saddened to see the condemnation of the CX4 and similar weapons by so many in this thread. Friends, you should know better than that!

Sure, a pistol-caliber carbine is not a "great" stopper in comparison to any centerfire rifle round (even a .223! :D ), or a shotgun. However, it has a number of HUGE advantages for new shooters, or those who can't tolerate much recoil due to injury, illness or impairment:

1. It shoots an already-reasonably-effective handgun round at even higher velocities, thus increasing its effectiveness;

2. It has little or no recoil to speak of, making it much easier than the average rifle for newbies;

3. It is much easier to learn to be accurate with a carbine (typically it will take 100 rounds or so) than to be accurate with a handgun (which will take ten times as much ammo).

I own carbines in numerous handgun calibers (.357 and .44 Magnum in Marlin lever-actions, 9mm. in a Hi-Point semi-auto, .40 S&W in a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 semi-auto, .45 ACP in a Marlin Camp Carbine), and have used all of them to introduce new shooters to defensive shooting. They've been uniformly successful in learning to use them quickly and accurately, and quite a few of them have gone on to purchase their own. The Hi-Point 9mm. carbine, in particular, is amazingly good value (it typically retails at less than $200, way cheaper than a decent handgun) and is very reliable, in my experience, and quite accurate enough to shoot minute-of-felon at 50 to 75 yards. Put a 124gr. +P JHP in that, and a BG is going to be in a world of hurt...

I don't know that I'll be interested in a Beretta at those prices - I could get three or more Hi-Points at the same price, or two Kel-Tec Sub-2000's, or two Marlin lever-action carbines. However, I'm sure the Beretta will perform as well as the less-expensive guns in the same calibers.

Sure, those of us with the time, inclination and money to learn and practice more will equip ourselves with carbines and rifles in better-performing calibers: but let's not sneeze at a perfectly viable defensive weapon for those with less time, less money, and greater need!

[Coot]

(My kids and I just want one to shoot cans...with 9mm ammo costing less than .22WMR you get a lotta bang for the buck).

[Warner]

Pop that chill-pill CZ52GUY, I was speaking in generalities. I'm not even aware, nor do I really care if you own one of these or not. I'll put into that same category your personal choices for your self-defense equipment.

There are folks out there that may NOT wish to learn the hard way in these disciplines. They realize that proper gun smarts are no more an inherited knowledge than successful investing is, and take no personal offense to someone offering sound fact based advice.

You seem to dwell on the anti-personnel aspects. The variables involved in successfully completing a anti-social event involving firearms are many indeed. One will need, among other things, a good combination of wits, common sense and good luck. The weapons portion of it all is indeed a personal choice, and a choice we will either live - or die with. And good luck with the concealment angle!

[355sigfan]

Preacherman
The 223 has minimal recoil too. I can't say you could tell a difference in firing a Colt AR15 in 9mm or 223 other than the noise.

Coot 22lr ammo costs even less than the 9mm.

But in the end its your choice buy it if you want it. What makes me upset is agencies like the Postal Inspectors are having to give up better weapons like the MP5 for this big pistol. The MP5 is a pistol too but at least it fires fast.
Pat

[Ohen Cepel]

It is what it is. Don't use a sledge to hammer finishing nails.

Only thing I see bad about it is that I haven't seen one yet:scrutiny:

Wish they wouldn't advertise/review things months in advance. Sometimes the D(#m things don't ever show, really cheeses me off then!

[Ohen Cepel]

Just had another thought (can't spare many).

If the 9mm round is so bad in anything that's not a pistol why were so many MP5's made?:scrutiny:

[355sigfan]

If the 9mm round is so bad in anything that's not a pistol why were so many MP5's made?
END

Its a damn good gun. But HK plans to drop its production. They are pushing their UMP and G36 line very hard. And you must also know the MP5 and subguns in general are steadily being replaced on SWAT entry teams with AR15 M4 type carbines. Subguns left the military long ago now they are leaving the law enforcment field slowly but surely.
Pat

[CZ52GUY]

Pop that chill-pill CZ52GUY, I was speaking in generalities. I'm not even aware, nor do I really care if you own one of these or not. I'll put into that same category your personal choices for your self-defense equipment.

No "frigid supplements" required here ;).

There are folks out there that may NOT wish to learn the hard way in these disciplines. They realize that proper gun smarts are no more an inherited knowledge than successful investing is, and take no personal offense to someone offering sound fact based advice.

Folks need to weigh both sides of a friendly debate, and draw their own conclusions. No offense was taken.


You seem to dwell on the anti-personnel aspects. The variables involved in successfully completing a anti-social event involving firearms are many indeed. One will need, among other things, a good combination of wits, common sense and good luck. The weapons portion of it all is indeed a personal choice, and a choice we will either live - or die with. And good luck with the concealment angle!

I simply point out that logically speaking, there is a niche, probably a small one, for the pistol caliber carbine (like the CX4) which may make it an attractive choice for some. One cannot reasonably dismiss the pistol caliber carbine as having *zero value* in a self-defense scenario. I completely concur that assuming some firearm is available, that the choice of weapon is only one component (probably a minority element) in a life or death self-defense equation.

I have no illusions about the concealment prospects of most pistol caliber carbines.

Best wishes,

CZ52'

[starfuryzeta]

Sorry to interrupt the testosterone and bashing going on :rolleyes: ....
but has anyone on either side of this argument got one/handled one/shot one of the current ones yet? If so, what can you say about them?

[CZ52GUY]

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143370

Best wishes,

CZ52'

[Obiwan]

1. 9mm is fine if you shoot them in the head...a carbine makes that easier

2. I once belonged to an indoor range where rifle calibers were verbotten
My Camp 9 was my only option...except for my 10/22

3. The beautiful thing about America is that you don't have to buy one if you don't want one.....but you still get to make a stink for no good reason:neener:

[Warner]

Obiwan - you sure do take things to a new level.

First, about your head shots. OOPS, I just realized this will take up much too much bandwidth to straighten this one out - but I did mention naive a few times here already.

Secondly, on "making a stink for no good reason". Keeping folks safer IS a good reason. This would include making decisions on personal weapons with an eye on the real world, and not by what some company like Beretta thinks would be a superb choice for you.

[CZ52GUY]

I would love to have a good discussion on the HS issue.

If you start another thread on the topic, I'd be interested in participating.

Let me know if you do.

Thanks in advance,

CZ52'

[Warner]

When the ideas for the proper application for an item like the CX4 goes so far astray, and when so many feel compelled to defend those thoughts, we can expect a small sideline or two to the main thrust of the thread.

If you study things a bit, you may see that it happens, in part, due to the varying levels of experience.

[gun-fucious]

heres a sample of how this Carbine is being "Marketed"

Beretta – Gerry Smith____________________________
Introduction to the Beretta CX4 Patrol Carbine

The Beretta CX4 is the first true pistol caliber patrol carbine. Its purpose is to supplement an officer’s sidearm with an effective weapon that is easy to carry, easy to deploy, non-offensive to the public, and compatible with the ammunition already carried for the officer’s primary sidearm. The first phase of this class will be a basic armorer’s course introducing the students to the functionality and design of the CX4. The second phase will be live-fire tactical training with static and dynamic drills to emphasize proper technique and tactical application out to 100 yards. Beretta CX4’s will be provided for use in the class.

[Obiwan]

Perhaps it might be easier to understand if I put it this way

Shot placement (IMHO)is more important than caliber

Most people can shoot a carbine more accurately than a handgun

The comment on head shots came from someone that has actually killed people when he was asked about the suitability of handgun calibers.

Please notice I didn't tell anyone what THEY should use...or even what they should think:o

I don't have a carbine for HD..but it IS an option.

I don't use a shotgun for HD for many of the same reasons

But..........................

Other people are not wrong (or naive) simply because I don't agree with them.

Also...Beretta is in business to make money....

Based on the interest I have seen in the Kel-tec carbines and even Camp carbines....this will probably be successful for them.

[Skunkabilly]

The CX4 will be the ideal car gun for folks that can't store long guns loaded in the car but have CCW permits and carry Beretta 92s.

The mags are already loaded on the belt and the rifle is copacetic in the eyes of the law, whereas an unloaded AR-15 and a loaded 30-rd mag next to it may be a gray area as far as the law goes.

[Obiwan]

Paint it pink and it will probably even be legal in California!

[Kurt]

I can't help but think how that advice is so in-line with some of the other advice offered here to keep this poor Beretta afloat.

Anyway.....

From LEO experience; On something like a traffic stop or other potentially dangerous scenario, the pucker factor wasn't nearly as high with the thought of some ya-hoo jumping out and spraying 9mm's all around the landscape (car gun) as it was with someone taking aim with an honest-to-gosh RIFLE chambered in an honest-to-gosh rifle CALIBER.

Rest assured, those thoughts were shared by co-workers.

While I don't have friends in the mob who have some head shots behind them, I do believe that me and those other LEO's have our share of experience, and that equates to a some good solid reasons for our beliefs. It's not something we just read about on a forum or in a magazine.

Be it with cops or gang members..... there are good reasons why pistol calibers don't share the "street" glory and reputation that rifle calibers do.

And one reason is effectiveness.

[Joe Demko]

Secondly, on "making a stink for no good reason". Keeping folks safer IS a good reason. This would include making decisions on personal weapons with an eye on the real world, and not by what some company like Beretta thinks would be a superb choice for you.

So, your real concern is "for the children?" I would rather see people who don't own a gun buy one of these because it looks snazzy to their eyes than be unarmed. Your concern for everybody else's safety is touching, really.

[Obiwan]

No doubt about it...handguns...and by extension pistol caliber carbines are pitiful popguns compared to a rifle....or at least the "right rifle"

So you would rather have a .22 LONG RIFLE than a CX4?????

Didn't think so...

So you wouldn't mind being shot with a 9mm????

Didn't think so...

Everything is relative....my point is that everything is a tradeoff.

Shot placement has more to do with effectiveness than caliber in most instances.

Training counts for more than equipment all things being equal..(they never are)

(50 bmg may be an exception....the concussion may kill them even if you miss)

I tend to take any firearm seriously...I might be somewhat disdaining of a derringer but only at somewhat longer range...anything more than a baseball bat and I tend to honor the threat.

I guess I am not as brave as some of you.

But I would be more afraid of a well trained shooter with a CX4 than someone shooting an AR for the first time.

Compared to not having a gun, the CX4 is PERFECT!

"Clint Smith recently pointed out that while many people poo-poo the .30 carbine nobody volunteers to get shot with one"

Just because a specific weapon in not perfect...(none are)...does not make it worthless.

I don't personally want a CX4...but I get riled when someone thinks any weapon is worthless.

And getting hung up on the head shot statement, which was meant more as a funny comment on the "effectiveness" argument , will carry this topic way further than it needs to go.

[Coot]

Just picked up my children's CX4 #0006** suprised they've only made 600 or so of them.

Very small, compact...feels great; promises to be a very fun plinker (and yes, I am aware .22LR is cheaper still than 9mm).

The cost out the door (rifle + dealer markup+ shipping) was $576.00. As they are very scarce, my dealer wasn't able to shop around for the best deal; I'd expect the price will come down over time.

[starfuryzeta]

The cost out the door (rifle + dealer markup+ shipping) was $576.00. As they are very scarce, my dealer wasn't able to shop around for the best deal; I'd expect the price will come down over time.

Heck getting any Beretta around here for $576 is a good deal. ( :cuss: curses most of the price gouging local dealers).

[Kurt]

Golgo-13 - you're talkin'... but you're not sayin' anything.

Obiwan - your dis-connected examples aren't working for me. The rifles mentioned were in real rifle calibers, not .22's. And just because I don't wish to be shot with a specific caliber doesn't make that round an effective one. (try a pellet gun as an example). Think man!

[iamkris]

You people are ding-a-lings...:uhoh: :rolleyes:

Horrors...someone wanting to buy a firearm for another reason other than SHTF / home defense.

Attitudes like this is what turns people off from this sport...

Where's that "ignore this thread" button?

[Kurt]

Kris - wish you would have found that button before you posted. You added nothing.

The problem isn't with the Beretta CX4 being a plinker. It's with people thinking it's something more.

[Coot]

Kurt, Thank God you're here to straighten everyone out on the subject.

Lighten up guy: everyone has their own reasons for purchasng a particular firearm, and while you may not share their opinions, can you at least give them a little respect?

[Kurt]

Thanks Coot, . . . . I agree.

It seems like some guys went to the school district or something!

[Kaylee]

lights out due to declining civility.

c'mon guys.. y'all know better than this. :(