[1KPerDay]

:uhoh:

Took my boys shooting last weekend and shot my S&W 37 for the first time. My hand still hurts. :D I fired the first 2 cylinders full and then decided I'd had enough for the day... then I put on a shooting glove and tried about 20 more shots. I was able to hit where I wanted but it sure wasn't much fun.:scrutiny:

Carry a lot, shoot a little. I can't imagine what the scandium .357 mags are like.:eek:

[ozarkman]

Don't be too hard on yourself... there's quite a bit of palm-smack in those little wheel guns with heavy magnum rounds..

[JohnBT]

Keep shooting, the nerves will deaden. ;)

When I first started playing handball 30+ years ago the instructors had us soak our hands in the hottest water we could stand - before and after. It cuts down on the swelling, bruising and pain. I know a lot of outdoor ranges don't have hot water, but I thought I'd mention it.

John

[cowssurf]

158 grains were uncomfortable out of a solid steel Ruger sp101 with Hogue grips for me. It wasn't horrendous, but too many and my hand would begin aching.

[1KPerDay]

I may try tracking down some 125-grain nyclad .38s or something... but the 2 125-grain +P loads I tried seemed to punch me just about as hard as the 158s.

Stock grips. I suppose some more substantial rubber grips would help, but that would sort of defeat the purpose of a pocket gun I guess. Maybe I'll buy some 'practice' grips. :D

Bad idea, I know.

[Brian Dale]

Carry a lot, shoot a little. I can't imagine what the scandium .357 mags are like. :eek: I'm thinking, "they're so expensive because they contain highly refined, double-distilled pain, in a light, handy package."

Even a Colt Cobra is kind of jumpy for me.

-Brian, who likes big, steel revolvers best. :)

[jaydubya]

Today, at my indoor range, I fired off fifty rounds of Mastercast's 148gr DEWCs from my 637 Airweight. But first I wrapped the web between my thumb and forefinger in sticky gauze. Although I am pretty good SD/HD with my other handguns (9mm BHP, S&W 686 -- firing +p .38sp) the 637 just beat me up again, and my shots wandered. So it's going back into its secret place in my house after I clean it, reloaded with Remington 158gr LSWCHP -- the FBI load -- and will stay there until I feel like doing THAT again. Or maybe I'll order some of Mastercast's 100 gr WCs, the ones that go *pop* and feel like twenty-twos. I've fired 500 of that load. It works fine, cuts excellent round holes at POA (ten yards), but is somewhat embarressing to shoot. It's a guy thing.

Cordially, Jack

[Guillermo]

Guess I too am a wuss. I hate shooting a super light snubby. The snap seems more aggravating than the big push of a 44 magnum.

Heck, 300 rounds of 45 or 357 is a lot more fun than 50 out of a light .38snubby.

I carry a steel frame (Colt detective special) because I shoot it better than an alloy frame.

[loneviking]

Took my boys shooting last weekend and shot my S&W 37 for the first time. My hand still hurts. I fired the first 2 cylinders full and then decided I'd had enough for the day... then I put on a shooting glove and tried about 20 more shots. I was able to hit where I wanted but it sure wasn't much fun.

Carry a lot, shoot a little. I can't imagine what the scandium .357 mags are like.

I'd be a wuss too with that little gun and those loads! I use a full size .357 with a 6 inch barrel. Those loads are comfortable out of that gun, but there's no way I'd fire 'em from a snubby! I would encourage you to try for different grips such as Pachmayr or the cushioned rubber grips. Also, try .38 spcl. 158 gr., lead hollowpoints. They get the job done and shouldn't hurt too much....

[Squidward]

On the 125 grain Nyclad

[kimbernut]

Best option - start handloading. Custom build your rounds for what you want and like to shoot. I carry a 3" .44 mag.S&W 629 as my truck gun but I seriously dislike firing full house 240 grain .44 mags at 1250 fps. My handloaded 240 gr. Gold Dots and XTPs at 1050 fps on the other hand are just about perfect for practice,defense, or whatever and no pain.

[Mainsail]

I lit off a round from my 1911 this weekend without hearing protection so I would know what to expect in a combat situation. Guess what? If you ever have to use it: They all hurt!

[Fat Boy]

I don't think your a wuss, I had the same basic results from shooting a S&W airweight in .38 special...Not to go off the deep end here; it seems to me that in years gone by handguns for the larger, more powerful calibers were larger, and heavier. Consider the N-frame S&W revolvers, chamberd for .357 magnum...now, makers are giving us much, much smaller and lighter guns in that caliber. I think it is a bit like a sign I saw at a tattoo convention..."yes, it will hurt"

If a person is willing to work with the issue, practice, train, etc. the smaller guns can be useful. I guess I am not willing to put that much effort into it when I can find servicable guns that are much more pleasurable to shoot. Just my 2 cents, YMMV

[McCall911]

I lit off a round from my 1911 this weekend without hearing protection so I would know what to expect in a combat situation. Guess what? If you ever have to use it: They all hurt!


Maybe I'm weird, but I can tolerate the report from a .45 ACP a whole lot better than I can from a .357 Mag! Man, those things almost make my ears bleed!

As to recoil, some of the full-power 158 grainers are bad enough with a full sized 4" revolver. I could imagine what they're like in a light snubby!

No sir, you're no wuss IMO.

[Brian Dale]

That's not weird at all, McCall911 - the .357 Mag is much louder than the .45 ACP. The .357 bullet also produces a supersonic crack and the .45 does not.

There's a handy chart at This Link. (http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml) Keep in mind that decibels are a logarithmic measurement, not a simple scalar one. Many have written that, if you use a snub .357 inside a room in a defensive shooting, you can expect to have some immediate hearing damage--maybe a lot of hearing damage. I use plugs and muffs with .357s.

[3KillerBs]

As I read this I keep thinking of how many recommendations I've seen for women who are new to shooting to get a lightweight, snubby revolver.

[TEDDY]

I have a airweight and shoot 38HBWC with 2.8 gr 700X.you would not want to get hit with that load.and especialy if you reverse the hollow base.
:uhoh::rolleyes::banghead:

[chriske]

Being even wussier than you, 1KPerDay, I not only thought of "practice grips" for my snub (S&W 640), I now use them exclusively.
I would consider a trip to the range wasted if I had to pack things in after 50 shots because of a sore hand .

On the other hand, is one a wuss for preferring to ride a bicycle to a Harley-Davidson ? or, to paraphrase Guillermo a few 100 x .44 Spl or 45 LC instead of 50 x snub-shot 357Mag?

[greener]

I carry my S&W 442 more than anything else because of size. Each trip to the range includes 20-25 practice rounds, all 158 grain lrn. I don't think the recoil is all that bad, but I wouldn't want to do a 200 round day with the Airweight. I fired lighter loads until I had some semblance of accuracy at 15 yards. Now I fire the loads I intend for SD.

I've fired the 12oz titanium/scandium revolver with hot load .357 and +P's. I can see why my son-in-law got it for a song from the previous owner who had fired only 200 rounds. Fired three sets of each load. I could have gotten the same results and saved on gas by staying home and hitting my palm with a hammer.:D

[Cannonball888]

Uh...yeah..the red palm is from my Airweight. :uhoh:

[sixgunner455]

It seems a lot of folks can 'feel your pain'.

Me too. I don't like shooting +p in any weight out of my 642, which weighs about the same as your 37. I prefer shooting my Detective Special. I can actually hit things with it at some nutty distances.

I can't shoot a heavy recoiling gun. My wrist won't let me do it.

My carry loads in .38 Special are not easy to get unless I decide to reload them, but they are factory Speer Gold Dot 125 grain, standard pressure. I bought two boxes of them a few years ago and am hoarding the remains of the last one.

I reload all my practice ammo. 158 grain lead, either SWC or TC, over light charges, is what I've been doing, and it works out pretty well. But I'm not adverse to trying out some lighter bullets.

If you like carrying it, you should figure out ways to practice with it. Dry firing doesn't hurt at all. I try to get in 2 or 3 dry fire practice sessions per week with my 642. I can do it in my recliner or the garage, alternate hands, get used to the trigger and aiming it. Just make sure it's really, really empty, and still don't point it at the wife's chihuahua.

Some folks do something similar, but make wax bullet loads. I'm thinking about doing that. It's just a wax plug cut with the mouth of the resized case, and a primer. For that, you have to have a backstop of some kind - piece of plywood, at least. Again, that can be done in the garage w/o bothering the neighbors. And definitely shouldn't be pointed at the chihuahua.

I usually take my .22 to the range with me, no matter what else I'm shooting, because I never know when the wrist is going to give up, and I don't want to waste the trip. Get a .22 snubby, do most of your practice shooting with it, and then your practice sessions can be as long as you want to stay. Won't break the bank, won't hurt the hand.

[SlamFire1]

I hate shooting my S&W Airweights, they kick too much. Hurt my hands.

You can reduce the pain, somewhat, by using Hogue grips. The trade off is that they are longer, fatter, and less concealable.

Try shooting 125 grain bullets. My Airweights are sighted for that bullet weight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/CheifSpecialDSCN5011-1.jpg

If you want something to carry, and something that is small, you are going to have to stick with the factory Uncle Mike’s.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/ReducedM638AirweightMarkingsDSCN-1.jpg

If you want something to shoot, try a steel framed pistol, like a Colt Detective Special. Much heavier, milder.

Still, nothing beats the Airweights as a carry revolver.

[Phil DeGraves]

That's why I use a Model 36...
Steel is real!

[1KPerDay]

I would consider a trip to the range wasted if I had to pack things in after 50 shots because of a sore hand .

I got to help my boys shoot a few .22 pistols and rifles, and I got to try out my 'new' Garand, so I didn't consider it a waste. :) I had a lot of fun and so did the kids.

The 'meaty' bit of my hand (along the bottom) is still sore today, though. And I don't have small hands. :uhoh:

[Cosmoline]

No you're not a wuss. Trying to be a "tough guy" about recoil makes every bit as much sense as being a "tough guy" about a scorpion in your pants. The proper base weight for a .38 Special is between 19 and 24 oz. For a .357 it's about 24 to 30 oz. You want your carry piece to aim and fire as naturally as breathing, which means it should not cause you any pain.

Carry a lot, shoot a little.

No. Carry a lot, shoot a lot. This is not a fashion accessory. The point of carrying it is to use it in the gravest extreme to defend your very life. Trying to hit anything in those conditions with a small short gun is often extremely difficult, and you don't want to make it worse by having one that's so light it flies around in recoil and bruises your hand. You also need to shoot, shoot and shoot some more. Always working to tweak the stock style, trigger and sights to reach maximum potential accuracy for your hand and eye.

[Redhawk1]

I would rather shoot my S&W 4 inch 500 Mag with my 700 gr. heavy loaded bullets than shoot a scandium .357 mag with heavy loaded 357 mags.

[tding]

I've got Crimson Trace grips on my S&W 360 - it kicks like a mule with 158 grain. Not a fun range gun but great for carry.

[1KPerDay]

No. Carry a lot, shoot a lot. This is not a fashion accessory. The point of carrying it is to use it in the gravest extreme to defend your very life.
I realize that. In an ideal world I'd be packing a 5-inch steel 1911 with 747-piercing high-explosive ammo. But in the real world, I can manage to comfortably carry my model 37. We all make compromises based on what we think is best for us. :)

[McCall911]

My conclusions: Ultimately, a lightweight snubbie is not really a "shooter's gun", especially with something like a hot .357 Magnum. Every month or so, I'd run maybe a cylinder or two of my defense rounds through it for effect, and then forget about it. Because when it comes to the moment of truth, obviously recoil considerations go out the door.

[Cosmoline]

Making adjustments in the means of carrying is a much better compromise than using an undersized firearm.

Because when it comes to the moment of truth, obviously recoil considerations go out the door.

No, they do not. All the little pains, maladjustments and troubles from having an undersized, over-recoiling conceal piece get MAGNIFIED when the moment comes. Your heart rate goes through the roof, your hands sweat, your mind races. All contribute to inaccuracy. If on top of that you have a squirrelly little piece that has never handled well for you, your chances of surviving are even less.

Try this simple experiment. Go on a small game hunt and jog around a little bit to get the heart going, or climb a hill. Then while you're still in that mode try to get a bead on your squirrel, coon, or whatever. Try to even hit it. People should make a point of shooting and killing something in 3D that moves and dodges with their carry piece to realize how difficult it is. The target area on a human man isn't much bigger than a coon, and the heart is similar in size to a squirrel. Imagine too if the animal is shooting back at you, trying to kill you. No, you need every little advantage you can get. If that means getting a heavier firearm with a more expensive leather holster, it's money well spent.

[McCall911]

No, they do not.

Obviously, if I'd owned a lightweight snubby, my opinion would have more weight, so to speak.

:o

:D

This is why I have generally done this:


If that means getting a heavier firearm with a more expensive leather holster, it's money well spent.


So I stand corrected.

;)

[Guillermo]

Making adjustments in the means of carrying is a much better compromise than using an undersized firearm.

I would if I could!

Living in Texas I usually wear a high belt holster and a Hawaiian shirt.

I find inside the waistband holsters as much fun as a dental work. A Smart Carry sounds horrible. I like guns a lot but don’t want one banging against the equipment.


I would carry my XD45 if I could conceal it but I usually end up with a NAA Guardian .380.

Heck...I have problems concealing my Colt DS snubby.

[Cosmoline]

Have you tried one of the Seventrees?

http://www.klnullholsters.com/

[Unisaw]

I have never been allergic to recoil, but my 642 with the "FBI load" hurts. I changed out the Uncle Mike boot grips for Hogue bantams and didn't think it was much of an improvement. I have now switched to the Pachmayr Compacs but haven't had a chance to try them out yet.

[.cheese.]

I tried shooting 100 .357 158 grains out of a 340PD once. My hand wasn't right for 2 weeks. It ripped a chunk of skin out of my palm.

[DFW1911]

I tried shooting 100 .357 158 grains out of a 340PD once. My hand wasn't right for 2 weeks. It ripped a chunk of skin out of my palm.

Can you imagine the .44? I have the 329PD in .44 - the recoil was so brutal I had to send it to S&W Performance Center to make it shootable.

I think that scandium doesn't "absorb" or "cushion" like steel: it seems that 100% of the recoil is delivered right to the shooter.

No, you're not a wuss. Those things have some stout recoil.

[1KPerDay]

You're a better man than I am. I would have lasted 5 rounds then gone for a milkshake with my useless airweight in my pocket. :D

Unisaw, if you want to get rid of your unkie mike's or Hogue's cheap, let me know. :)

[golden]

I carry a .40 S&W caliber H&K P2000 on duty which does not recoil to badly. In a small, aluminum framed revolver, recoil is another matter. I used to shoot 158 +P ammo in my 6 inch barreled S&W 586. Then I discovered that the 110 grain .357 magmun load not only was a much hotter load, it kicked less.

I did the same with my S&W model 12. I carry +P .38 special, but I use the 125 grain REMINGTON semi-jacketed hollow point. These rounds are much cheaper than any of the wonder bullets and work as well as the 158 grain lead hollow points without the recoil.

In my small COLT Cobra, which has wooden grips, recoil has become a real problem. 125 +P is painful to shoot. I am trying standard pressure 125 grain hollow points, but they are only slightly more effective from a 2 inch barrel than a .32ACP, so I may want to switch. Time will tell.

Jim

[joe4702]

Try a Pachmayr J-frame Compac grip (the one that covers the backstrap). Almost sold my 360, but with the Pachy grip, its now pleasant to shoot. And surprisingly it's not all that much harder to conceal. A slightly deeper pocket does the trick.

[AZAndy]

Personally, I just clamped 12 ounces of lead sinkers to the trigger guard of my 642. ;-)

But seriously, I found that a switch to the old-school wooden grips helped a lot-- I can get my hand up higher now, and that's made a big difference.

Andy

[grimjaw]

I didn't even like shooting .38 Special out of a M640 (steel frame) and Hogue grips. With .357 Magnum it would torque enough to make the webbing of my hand bleed after 25 shots. I don't deny it's a useful, powerful platform, but danged if it isn't hard to shoot.

jm

[M'bogo]

This last Saturday I had two new shooters at my place. They are friends of my wife and I. They are twins 25 years old, female 5'5" and maybe 115lbs. One had shot a .380 handgun before the other had never fired a firearm.

I started them off shooting a Taurus 94 .22LR shooting Super Colibri. They then moved on to a Sig P6 and a Kahr P9. They next wanted to shoot a centerfire wheelgun so I got out a Taurus 85 3" in .38Spl and I got my S&W scandium Mountain Lite for me. After they shot a box of .38 up in the Taurus they wanted to try out the S&W. I loaded it up with .38 130FMJ and everyone including my wife (who is recoil shy) shot two full cylinders. They then wanted to see how bad the bark and bite of .357 was in the S&W so I got a box of full power 158gr JHP and shot seven rounds. They were impressed! The twin who had shot the .380 before wanted to try the S&W with the .357 loads. She fired all seven rounds and turned to face us with the biggest grin I have ever seen on anyone. :D No one was hurt by the scandium .357Mag. The people who do need to worry about the pain of firing a lightweight .357 are the folks at which it is pointed.

M'bogo

P.S. The girls two favorites of the handguns they fired were the two lightest. The S&W 386 Mountain Lite and the Kahr P9

[Phil DeGraves]

I'd have to agree with Cosmoline. The gun that I am counting on to defend my life with, better be the one that I practice the most with. If that means finding a way to carry a 5" 1911, well, so be it.

[jfh]

Cosmoline got it right: Carry a lot, shoot a lot.

The M&P 340 (13.3 oz. empty) is my carry gun. I've selected the GDSB 135-gr 38+P PD round for daily carry. When I started with this gun, I resolved to become proficient with it, at least at a basic level--which I define as being able to do Old Fuff's "quad five" back-to-back--five shots, five seconds, five yards, five-inch group.

I can do that now--but I spent a lot of time shooting, using a 640 for both practice and (re)load development. I also installed a CT-405 laser grip (has a recoil pocket) on the 340, and a CT-305 (no pocket, but backstrap covered) on the 640. The 405 grip does noticably help with felt recoil.

When I started carrying, I used the FC 110-gr., 38 Special std-pressure round, and I could barely tolerate a cylinderfull from the 340. However, three months and about 3000 rounds later, I shot a cylinderfull of the Buffalo Bore 20As--that's a 158-gr. LSWC-HP 38+P load running at 1000 fps. (It does; I chrono'd it.) The recoil was stout, but managable--and I could have shot a reload.

Recently I ran load development rounds of Ramshot True Blue out to the max--which, from these two 2" j-frames, run about 1100 fps at a max load. Stout, yes, 'sorely' stout in the 340--but shootable. The max load is more than I feel I need to carry, however.

Hand conditioning is the key.

Reloading allows one to shoot enough economically to condition your hand and develop proficiency.

A "replica reload" of the GDSB 38+P PD round can be built with 6.7 to 7.0 grains of AA#5 and a 140LTC bullet, and will cost about twelve cents.

Consider doing it--reloading that is, and practicing a lot.

Jim H.

[springmom]

Goodness, someone else with a m37. I thought I was the only one :D

You're not a wuss. Those do have a sharp recoil. For practice, try some of the Sellier & Bellot wadcutter rounds. Very little recoil, and very good for practice. And they're not expensive. www.cheaperthandirt.com has them, if your local gunshops don't. I went through a whole lot of those learning how to shoot that little gun.

Practice every time with your carry ammo, but nobody says you have to shoot 100 of them every time. Use the wadcutters for 90% of your range time and practice with your SD ammo the other 10%.

Aren't those guns great for concealment? That's the one gun I really can carry no matter what I'm wearing, and it does't show. :)

Springmom

[Markbo]

125gr Nyclads... do they still make those?

[1KPerDay]

They are twins 25 years old, female 5'5" and maybe 115lbs.
Got a phone number? :D

For practice, try some of the Sellier & Bellot wadcutter rounds. Very little recoil, and very good for practice. And they're not expensive. www.cheaperthandirt.com has them, if your local gunshops don't. I went through a whole lot of those learning how to shoot that little gun.

Practice every time with your carry ammo, but nobody says you have to shoot 100 of them every time. Use the wadcutters for 90% of your range time and practice with your SD ammo the other 10%.

Good advice, springmom. I happen to have a few boxes of the S&B wadcutters in my safe. Didn't think to dig them out. :cool:

[TimboKhan]

Carry a lot, shoot a little. I can't imagine what the scandium .357 mags are like

I am assuredly not a wuss, and I can tell you from experience that they suck incredibly badly. I will never again fire one, because I can see absolutely no need to either own or shoot a revolver that is that punishing on my hand. The weight saving simply isn't worth the gain in discomfort, at least in my opinion. Nice, well made guns, and they are very light, but they just aren't worth it.

[M'bogo]

Like good scotch, fast horses and red headed women the lightweight magnums are not for everyone. :)

M'bogo

[rdoggsilva]

I tried 357 158 & 125gr in my steel frame 462 WOW!!!. I can fire these all day in my 4" 971. But in the 462 I will stick with my FBI load.

[bflobill_69]

All Machimso aside - it takes some time to get used the that kind of recoil from .357 and a smaller gun.

But are'nt those HUGE fireballs fun???

Yeah I started shooting .357 out of a medium frame 2" barrel.

It was intimidating at first, but I got used to it... kinda :rolleyes:

Its amazing how much better .357 ammo feels by just going from a gun with a 2" barrel to a 4" barrel - was like night and day for me.

Bflobill_69

[Avery Goodschott]

.357 anything in a light gun is going to be painful

I carry .38Spl non-plus p 158 grains in my Colt Cobra or J Frames. Like AZAndy, I prefer the old school wooden grips and take a VERY high hold. I use the old lemon squeeze trigger pull which gives me a tense grip throughout the hand. If I take a two hand hold, I press in with my offhand thumb.

I practice with 110's, 125's and 130's to work up to the 158's

I also went out and bought 3 versions of the .32 Magnum - both to extend my range time and have something useful for the wife.:rolleyes:

[TimboKhan]

My carry gun is a Taurus 605, and thats not a big gun. Yet I can fire pretty much whatever I want through it with comfort. I just can't do that with a lightweight gun, and the 605 isn't that heavy.

[Unisaw]

I finally got a chance to shoot my 642 with Pachmayr Compacs. It seemed like a completely different gun compared to shooting it with either Uncle Mike's boot grips or Hogue Bantams. It was actually pleasant to shoot and accuracy improved as well. I find that the Compacs are not much harder to conceal but increase comfort and controllability significantly.

[honkeoki]

I don't even like to shoot full-house .357 loads out of my Service Six.

My Airweight beat me up so bad I traded it away. Now I have an all-steel J-frame .38, and it's no fun to shoot either. I think I need to chop some wood or something to toughen up my lily-white hands!

[doc540]

Not fun to shoot (even with the Hogue's):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/doc540/Guns/Hogue%20Grips/642Hogue2-1.jpg

Sold for "fun to shoot":
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/doc540/Guns/Colt%20Detective%20Special/ds5-1.jpg

[Ichiro]

I think the weight=recoil idea is overblown, at least in regard to Airweights. Pressure is the culprit for palm-smack, and +Ps are horrible out of my 642 and all-steel 60.

All +P ammo feels like hell. Regular-pressure 158s feel just fine ~ just like 130-grain ammo or anything else that's non-plus P. I carry 158-grain regular-pressure hollowpoints, and they're just the ticket. No harder to shoot than 110-grain hollowpoints, which were a waste of money.

[machinisttx]

As I read this I keep thinking of how many recommendations I've seen for women who are new to shooting to get a lightweight, snubby revolver.

J frames and snubbies in general are poor choices for any new shooter, and more especially for women. People seem to have the misconception that the average woman's hand is significantly smaller and has less "reach" than the average male. Men's hands typically are more meaty than women's and that actually gives the average male less reach.

J frames have a poorly designed grip frame when it comes to recoil. They need larger grips to make them shootable, which negates the small size that draws people to them. 158 grain .38 special loads hurt ME in a J frame with standard size grips. By comparison, I can shoot .357 magnums(even 158s) out of my SP101 without discomfort. The grip is only slightly larger in girth, but it is longer and far better designed for handling recoil.

If the gun is unpleasant to shoot, you probably won't practice enough with it. If you can't practice with the same grips you use for carry, change them until you can. Switching between grips for practice and carry is a bad idea. You brain learns where the hand should position itself on the gun with repetition, so if you aren't using the same grips all the time, you won't be very proficient if you actually need the gun.

[The_Shootist]

...even firing Buffalo Bore's version of the FBI load out of my SP 101 causes me to wince. Now and again I'll run some 158 gr magnums through it, just to re-inforce my (mistaken) level of manliness. Just as quickly I remember why its no fun. Pretty much stick to .38 spl +P stuff (NORMAL +P - not BB hot rod ammo) in my snubbies.

I have my 686+ for the magnums. I figure thats the size gun they were meant for and I can handle them pretty well.

[Omaney]

I don't even want to shoot 50 rounds of 158 mags out of my model 19 4" barrel at one time (I am a wuss). The .357 is a hand cannon...you're not a wuss. I have shot many different handgun calibers, and the .357's kick is worse than a .44 to me. I wouldn't even consider an airweight with those loads. At the range, I always put two hot loads in the cylinder when shooting my 19, the remainder are +P 158gr. The difference in recoil is night and day. I couldn't imagine full mag loads out of an airweight. It's tough being me.:neener:

[mr2guru]

J frames and snubbies in general are poor choices for any new shooter, and more especially for women. People seem to have the misconception that the average woman's hand is significantly smaller and has less "reach" than the average male. Men's hands typically are more meaty than women's and that actually gives the average male less reach.

J frames have a poorly designed grip frame when it comes to recoil. They need larger grips to make them shootable, which negates the small size that draws people to them. 158 grain .38 special loads hurt ME in a J frame with standard size grips. By comparison, I can shoot .357 magnums(even 158s) out of my SP101 without discomfort. The grip is only slightly larger in girth, but it is longer and far better designed for handling recoil.

Maybe this is why I like my 360pd so much and have no real problem with the recoil, even with .357s My hands are smaller and the stock grip fits me well. Yeah, the web of my hand is a little red after 50rds or so, but it goes away quickly.
I personally think it's fun to shoot. I tried firing as quick as I could line up and shoot with my defensive .357s (buffalo bore .357 gold dot). And at 7yds I think I did pretty well for 5 shots. 5.5x7.5 targets.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/mr2guru/IMG_0877.jpg

[adweisbe]

People think it is just the weight that makes the j-frame uncomfortable to shoot. That is a factor but it is the grips that are the real problem. The uncle mikes are terrible from a trigger control perspective as well as a recoil perspective. Try a pair of Pachmayr Gripper grips. I switched to belt carry when I decided I wanted the extra accuracy that comes with a full size grip.

The recoil velocity of a .38 +P j-frame isn't any worse then a .40 caliber Glock. It is the grips that make you think it is.

[krs]

Yep, I think the supplied grips on snubbies are most of the problem. The guns get much more friendly with a Hogue or Ahrend's full fingergrip handle on them. Doesn't have to be rubber but it has to be bigger.http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/twagger/guns/49.jpg

Recoil sensitivity is a strange thing.

I'm not immune to it - my limit is 158 gr .357's out of my Model 66 2 1/2" barrel and I'm not thrilled with full loads from my 5" 629 either. But what really hurts is the Keltec .380. That little sucker bites my trigger finger badly even though I've smoothed it and shortened the trigger.

The lightweight 442 is kinda' much too so I load it with wadcutters and 3.0 gr of bullseye. It's probably as good as it can be as a SD gun anyway.

My 120 lb 5'3" wife seems to be immune from all of it. she can fire any ammo out of her personal 442 and make good groups doing it. Truth is I've never found a recoil that she admits to being bothered with even though she will complain about the girth of the 469 grip or the weight of my Sig 226 and S&W 25-2 6 1/2". It's never the recoil that bothers her. She will shoot our 12 guage coach gun from the shoulder. I shoot it from the hip because I think it might break my shoulder if I did what she does.

It doesn't make good sense, but it is.

[1KPerDay]

But what really hurts is the Keltec .380. That little sucker bites my trigger finger badly even though I've smoothed it and shortened the trigger.

Interesting; I was just about to post on another thread that I took my new Ruger LCP out for the first time yesterday and put a few Hornady TAP rounds through it and was astounded at the lack of recoil. Much less felt recoil than the PPK or Sig 230 .380s (which are blowback operated).

I'm sure those full-fingered grips on the j-frame help with recoil but for me they sort of defeat the purpose of a pocket gun; I can't comfortably fit it in my pocket with the large grips.

[krs]

It's not the recoil of a .380 - those are quite soft compared to most calibers I shoot, it's the trigger/trigger guard coupled with my finger that bites me. I probably should have left that point out of discussion.


I can't comfortably fit it in my pocket with the large grips.

I have a beautiful Alessi IWB holster that works for all j frame snubbies, but other than jacket pocket carrying I gave up on pocket carry years ago. However, the grips shown on my M49 above, a nice pair of Hogues, don't make the pistol much if at all more difficult to carry in a pocket. They LOOK long and bigger but in fact the gun's backstrap is showing and they're less than 1/2" longer than the rubber grips that came on my 442.

So 1KPerday, Yes, you can! :)

[Carl N. Brown]

I find it more pleasant to shoot a full size .45 1911 than to shoot a .25 Baby Browning. Light guns snap, heavy guns push.

[L-Frame]

That's why I won't own airweights. It's a Ruger SP-101 or S&W 60 for me in an IWB holster.

[The Lone Haranguer]

I found a Colt Agent I had to have a rather sharp and unpleasant recoil with just standard pressure heavy bullet loads. The hammer shroud also dug into my hand. A Ruger SP101 I had, weighing twice as much, was easy to shoot with these loads and tolerable with all but the most fire-breathing magnums. I've never tried to shoot magnums out any "fleaweight" revolver and don't feel the need to.

[larstusor]

What about .357 110gr JHP. Shouldn't that be more powerfull than any .38+P yet be more managable than the 125, 140, 158 mags?

[krs]

Big heavy slow moving bullets. Learn to carry and conceal it.

Keep below the sound barrier. Big bullet goes----------THUD. Bad guy goes------------uhhh............THUD.


Hand feels fine.

[The Lone Haranguer]

What about .357 110gr JHP. Shouldn't that be more powerfull than any .38+P yet be more managable than the 125, 140, 158 mags?
In a heavy enough gun, yes. I found it shot well in my Ruger. But, again, that gun weighs twice as much and has a bigger grip than the fleaweights.

[S&Wfan]

Hi,

I just asked my wife about a M37 hurting with the good ol' FBI load (158 gn. LSWC-HP +P). More on this shortly, but first . . .

She's a relatively new shooter who, after 33 years of marriage finally decided to get a gun for protection after some ladies she knows were attacked.

She settled on the 3" barrel of my M65, although it was too heavy and big. So, I found a M65 last spring and she loves it! I love it too, since now she's able to protect herself when I'm not around.

Back to her and her 3" M37 firing hot loads . . .

I trained her specifically for a very high hold and a firm grip, so that the recoil will push straight back and allow the body to absorb a lot of the "damage. That, along with a firm grip are truly the key to shooting all revolvers fast and with control . . . but also to help with felt recoil.

That day at the range she shot about 100 rounds, starting with some handloaded "powderpuff" 148gn. wadcutters. She worked up to the 158 gn. SCWC-HP +P Remingtons. I didn't even tell her. She remarked that they had a little more kick, but "NOT BAD!"

She then shot my snubbie M37 with the same load, and remarked that they kicked harder (of course) in my snubbie, but that it was still tolerable.

She's just 5'0" with small hands, of course, so I was quite proud that she'd learned to master the grip, stance . . . and thus be able to tolerate a hot load in that 37.

GRIPS . . .

We both use the good ol' S&W stocks that came with our pair of 1971 M37s BUT WITH ONE HUGE DIFFERENCE . . .

I've got Tyler T-grips on both of 'em, and they allow an great high grip and truly damp out the nasty slap of an M37's recoil characteristics! Her's is a square butt and mine is a round. I truly like these grips much better than the "rubbers" out there that I've tried.

So . . . if you are shooting S&W wood stocks, invest about $30 and get a Tyler T-grip and you might be mightily pleased too!

Also, grip 'em firm and HIGH . . . and adopt the Isosceles Stance if you can, and you might not hate the kick anymore. BEST OF ALL . . . if you ever have to shoot it in self defense . . . you will NOT feel the kick at all anyway!;)

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/282194/2328567IMG0121e.jpg

T.

[ChemicalArts]

I love it when a thread gets ressurected.

[earplug]

I shoot my J frames about three times a month, practice my draw and empty the carry rounds, reload and shoot ten or more rounds, clean and reload for the trip home.
I don't really plan on shooting it at the range so much as making sure I have a bag of ammo in my range box so I can practice a little after the fun stuff.
I really believe that a certain amount of recoil will harm a shooter if subjected to much to often. Pain is the body telling you brain something is not right.
Hurt yourself often enough and you develop a flinch and other bad habits.

[Brian Dale]

Thanks, S&Wfan; that's good info.

[redleg0811]

No your not a wuss. I have a Scandium 340 that I bought 4-6 years ago. I can hit what I am aiming at, but I can only shoot about 20 rds before my wrist is trashed.

As to shooting a 45 or 357 without hearing protection, its different when you have the adrenaline pumping. You just don't remember the shock your ears took.

[safenate]

I had a Taurus 2" 357 Titanium and shot a few 180 gr Black Talons and 180 JSP hunting loads. OUCH! The BEST 357 load I found & carried were some 'cheap' WWB 110 gr JHP. They opened well and didn't beat me up too bad. I'm sure others have mentioned, carrying handloads for SD is not a good idea but it is up to you.

[honkeoki]

Me, too. So much so that I sold my 442 (which I still regret) but about 15 rounds of standard pressure .38 at the range left my hand looking like hamburger meat. :uhoh: