Best CQB 9mm carbine in good price range? Same question, for .22lr.


PDA






Orion8472
June 4, 2008, 02:24 PM
I would like to know what would be best for CQB in a carbine size, 9mm, having excellent accuracy AND the ability for high capacity, while also having robust reliability.

If you have something that you would like to suggest, feel free to post it here, and if at all possible, any pictures and price range you could include.

Same question, but for a .22lr carbine. Anything out there reliable, accurate, with hi capacity?

Thanks!!

If you enjoyed reading about "Best CQB 9mm carbine in good price range? Same question, for .22lr." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
4Low
June 4, 2008, 04:11 PM
You'll find several options in the 9mm carbine arena. Hi-Point, Kel-tec, Ruger, Marlin all make or made a 9mm carbine at one time or another. There is even the option of using 9mm on an AR-15 platform.

I personally have a Ruger PC9 carbine. It's heavier than most competitors carbines, but in my hands, it handles well and anything under 25 yards is as good as dead. High capacity should be available through Ruger P series mags and as far as reliability goes, I haven't heard of any major issues. There have been some accuracy concerns but nothing to exclude it from CQB use.

Orion8472
June 4, 2008, 04:16 PM
I should add that I have a Hi Point carbine. It is a great gun, very accurate, but not hicap. :(

And I don't trust the 15 roung promags!!! :scrutiny:

John Wayne
June 4, 2008, 06:00 PM
I own a Kel-Tec and have shot the Hi-Point.

I started out with a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in 9mm, which took Beretta mags. I found they were readily available at gun shows or in the form of surplus M-9 mags for $5.80 at Camp Lejeune :D With aftermarket mags I had feeding issues, but with Beretta and USGI magazines realiability was not a problem.

I later traded the gun for a Sub 2000 in .40 S&W which accepts Glock 22 magazines. It has been 100% reliable, except for a broken front sight post, which Kel-Tec quickly replaced.

I love the Kel-Tec for its simplicity of cleaning (disassembles using a cartridge), and for the fact that it folds. Also, hi-cap mags are readily available, and also interchangeable with a variety of handguns. I have added a bolt-tube cover, Hogue hand-all, and bolt buffer to my carbine, which improved the feel significantly.

The High Point I shot was chambered in .40 S&W. It has better sights (which are also made of metal), and is slightly more accurate. The fit and finish are very rough though, and it is anything but ergonomic and well-balanced. Magazines are also hard to find, and limited to 10 rounds.

In summary, both guns are fairly equal performance wise. The Kel-Tec is much easier to clean, and magazines are easier to find, which is why I went with it.

John Wayne
June 4, 2008, 06:04 PM
Oh, almost forgot:

The Kel-Tec retails for around $300. I have seen them marked up as high as $450 NIB.

The High Point starts out around $200, but if you plan on replacing the hideous stock, the cost is about the same as buying the Kel-Tec.

Both guns are made in the USA and have a lifetime warranty from the manufacturer.

I would buy the High Point for use as a plinker, but would opt for the Kel-Tec as a CQB weapon due to its better balance and the availability of larger magazines.

Grayman
June 22, 2008, 12:46 PM
JW - I'm curious - what were your reasons for trading the SUB-2000 9mm for the .40?

FFMedic
June 22, 2008, 01:22 PM
The Beretta Storm is the most compact 9mm Carbine that can be said to be dead reliable and accurate. I have 20 round mags with mine. 1 stovebibe in about 5K rounds, that's it.

FFMedic

Ratshooter
June 22, 2008, 01:25 PM
I'm on my second Marlin camp carbine. I stupidly sold the first one. I got the new one from Gunbroker for a total of $286.00 after all the shipping was done. I won't ever sell this one. I also bought 3 20 mags for $9 a peice. These guns shoot a lot better than people give them credit for.

I also have the Hi-point 9mm. Actually my son "borrowed" it several years ago. Thats a neat little rifle. Its never jammed except the one time i tried lead bullets. The nose dug in to the feed ramp. Don't worry about only haveing 10 round magazines either. There are a lot of folks here that protect their homes and persons every day with 1911 pistols that only hold 6-8 rounds of ammo. You can reload the hi-point just like you can the 1911.

Another plus for the hi-piont is when you look through the rear peep the front round hood is the same size. Line up the two holes, put the target on top of the post and fire the gun. Instant hit. They are the fastest and easiest open sights i have ever used.

Ratshooter
June 22, 2008, 01:32 PM
I forgot that you asked about 22s. Any reliable semi auto 22 should work fine. I keep a loaded mag for my 10-22 near the gun.

I also bought a used Marlin model 60 a couple of days ago for 80 bucks from a local pawn shop. I shot it yesterday. I fired about 100 trouble free shots from it. A 22 makes a good low recoil, low noise defender. Not the best caliber but it will work. Something bigger is always better.

TCB in TN
June 22, 2008, 02:18 PM
I have a Hi point carbine in 9mm, or should say had, as my son has now taken it away from me. Have had it for maybe 2 yrs and have yet to have a FTF it is also very accurate (easily min of coke can at 50yards). I have shot the Kel-tec, and the C-X4 and IMHO unless hi-cap mags are really important to you then the Hi-Point is the best bet for the money.

jayofthejungle1985
June 22, 2008, 03:07 PM
I have a hi-point 995 also... everyone talks about how reliable they are... i dont quite see it....
i bought mine NIB, after the first range trip of about 150 rounds i took it apart for cleaning and noticed the firing pin was bent... called hi-point and had a new one in 3 days. Then installed it and put it back together and the bolt wont go completely in the stock like its supposed to. if i try to force it the seam splits... i have it put together correctly. the only thing i can think of is the plastic got a little soft and melted (?) enough to dent in, when it was taken apart for a about a week in my garage... i dont know... but hi point said to send it to them and they will fix it... SO they QC is great but ive read about alot of bent firing pins and other issues...
i like the kel-tec... takes g17 mags (33? rds) except for the sights

i dont know your price range but i would look into an mp5 clone in 9mm and the GSG-5 mp5 clone in .22

briansmithwins
June 22, 2008, 03:15 PM
I picked up a Vector SA Uzi. It's been reliable as long as I use hotter ammo. Wolf or S&B works fine in mine. I usually use S&B 9mm as it gives me about 4MOA groups.

Mags are cheap at ~$13 for either 25 or 32 round capacity. The weapon itself is dead simple and massively overbuilt for 9mm. People talk about which is better for AKs, 1mm or 1.6mm stamped receivers, the Uzi's receiver is closer to 2mm.

For $620 it's a great range toy and training tool. I get the most use out of mine at pistol matches where any pistol cal is allowed. It's a great chance to practice close range shooting. BSW

BerettaRacer
June 22, 2008, 04:07 PM
I've gotta vote for the Beretta Storm. Might be a couple of bucks more to buy but a great little gun. Easy to option out with add on's as you see fit, and mags are plentyfull.

Kind of Blued
June 22, 2008, 05:57 PM
American 180? :)

Jeremy2171
June 22, 2008, 06:51 PM
Olympic Arms makes a special lower that takes Glock mags in both 9mm and 40cal.

Here is mine in 9mm. Goes great with any 9mm Glock like a G17C

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff36/jeremy2171/home026a.jpg

Vaarok
June 22, 2008, 06:53 PM
Calico!

M-100 or M-960, it's like you asked the exact question they answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_Light_Weapons_Systems

selector67
June 22, 2008, 07:08 PM
Yep, for high capacity Calico is the way to go, heres mine with 100 round mag. http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l67/selector67/100_1499.jpg

EHCRain10
June 22, 2008, 08:57 PM
I have the CX4 Storm, dead reliable for me, very compact and more accurate than I can hold with the iron sights paid $600 for mine used but that a little high from what ive heard so look around

Semmerling
June 22, 2008, 09:11 PM
CQB....9MM...and not a machine gun...get a pistol, as everything else is just more heavy cr#p, not giving you any more firepower, any more accuracy, any more reliability...and moves at half the speed in CQB. You might even like to have a free hand. As to the .22 question, is that for CQB too? :>

Kharn
June 22, 2008, 09:28 PM
I'd go with a Rock River 9mm AR15 or a Vector Uzi.

Kharn

Crunker1337
June 22, 2008, 10:19 PM
How's about a nice HK or HK clone?

Domino
June 23, 2008, 08:22 AM
CQB....9MM...and not a machine gun...get a pistol, as everything else is just more heavy cr#p, not giving you any more firepower, any more accuracy, any more reliability...and moves at half the speed in CQB. You might even like to have a free hand. As to the .22 question, is that for CQB too? :>

I would have to say that I strongly disagree with your statements. If you are implying that a 9mm pistol is just as effective as a 9mm carbine than you are dead wrong. My Sub 2000 carbine is just over twice the weight of my G19 unloaded and it is extremely fast to operate at under 30" in length. Shooting at 25, 50, and 100 range targets hit percentages are increased massively when compared to shooting any handgun. I can consistanly shoot mine between 4-6 MOA and velocity increases with 124g Gold Dots to be on par with .357 magnum handgun rounds. In fact, with everything you have said I have found the opposite to be true, my Sub 2000 does everything better than my G19 and its only disadvantage would be in its concealability (which is actually very good for a rifle) when compared to a handgun.

Zach S
June 23, 2008, 08:50 AM
Since I have BRD, I've got both in AR platforms. A 9mm RRA with a Hahn mag block, and a dedicated rimfire upper built with a KKF bbl and a M1S 9mm upper. I'll probably get a cheap stock and a LPK to finish a lower I have laying around to host the upper.

Neither one are cheap, far from it actually, but my go to gun in an AR in 5.56, so it makes sense to practice with something in the same platform. The gun I shoot the most often is my 9mm AR, the only reason I shoot it more than my rimfire upper is because I built that upper on Friday. The lady and I put about 200 rounds through it, it cost me about 13 bucks.

Far from cheap, but well worth it IMO.

30 cal slob
June 23, 2008, 08:53 AM
i ran a shoot house recently with a RRA 9mm AR. promag plastic 32 round mags.

most assuredly suitable for CQB, as long as you're not trying to clear a crawlspace.

not the cheapest option, however.

24kshooter
June 23, 2008, 09:09 AM
None - why would you waste resources on a 9 mm CQB ? If you just have to have a pistol caliber carbine at least get a 45 ACP or 40 Storm. There are no CQB 22 LR carbines. The orginal 30 M1 carbine works well for defense but would not be my first choice in a CQB - that's why AR 6.8's, 5.56's and shotguns are sold.

Domino
June 23, 2008, 10:49 AM
I would like to know what would be best for CQB in a carbine size, 9mm, having excellent accuracy AND the ability for high capacity, while also having robust reliability.

If you have something that you would like to suggest, feel free to post it here, and if at all possible, any pictures and price range you could include.

Same question, but for a .22lr carbine. Anything out there reliable, accurate, with hi capacity?


I would put my vote on the Sub 2000. In my experience with the 9mm in Glock 17 configuration makes it a GREAT companion to my G19. The grip is cut slightly to accomidate G19 magazines and I have installed a BTFP front sight, tube shield, and a Kel-Tec light mount. I also like to use G18 33 round magazines which have had zero reliability issues.

The weapon is quite accurate, as stated above it gets 4 MOA with good ammo. Reliability is good as well although steel cased ammo sometimes stove pipes and aluminum cased ammo ahould not be used. That said, I have had zero problems with ANY brass cased ammunition so I feel that I can safely say the the weapon should be 100% with any brass cased ammo. Also the weapon is quite lightweight and short in OAL at under 30". I feel that it handles better than the Hi-point and its ability to fold, lower price, and better Hi-caps put it over the Beretta Storm. To me, its exactly what a 9mm cabine should be. Visit http://www.ktog.org/ it you want to see pictures and a wealth of information about the carbine.

As far as the 22lr goes, you can't go wrong with a 10/22. They are highly customizable and you can literlly turn them into whatever you want, I just wouldn't recommend it for CQB unless you are bieng attacked by a angry pack of rodents.

tinygnat219
June 23, 2008, 11:40 AM
There are some nice advantages of the 9MM Carbines: Light, low recoil, and inherently more accurate than a handgun.

To that statement, I have a KT Sub2000 model that takes the G17 magazines, and the 33rd magazines as well. This is great carbine for smaller statured folks. For those of you that have tiny wives, or significant others, the lightness, compactness, and low recoil make this a great HD option.

I also have a Hi-Point 995 9MM Carbine that has the 10 round magazines. It's easier to point and fire than the KT, but I feel the 10 round magazine is too limiting.

Ricebrnr
June 23, 2008, 10:06 PM
Actually if you count the new GSG 5, you could use that for a 22lr CQB carbine.

Orion8472
June 24, 2008, 10:48 AM
I have considered the GSG-5. I think that would be a VERY fun gun to have!

mr.trooper
June 24, 2008, 12:00 PM
Id go with the Beretta storm.

Orion8472
June 24, 2008, 01:40 PM
As for "more powerful CQB", I've already decided to just buy a 16" upper for my AR-15. I'm now more focused on whether a .22lr (in "CQB" format) would be a good purchase.

The thing is, they are only good for fun, since the .22lr round would be nearly ineffective in a SHTF scenario, . . . . . . . not that one is going to occur.

Too bad that no one makes a GOOD higher capacity magazine for the High point. I wonder if some smart and talented gunsmith could make a drum magazine (30 round size) for it? :confused:

Anyway, that GSG-5 is very tempting!

NC-Mike
June 24, 2008, 03:53 PM
I had a Hi-Point carbine. Good rifle but PITA to break down and clean and the ten round mags were underwhelming for that rifle will spit out ten rounds in 3 seconds and leave you somewhat unsatisfied when the mag runs dry so quickly. I sold it to put together an Olympic upper with a Stag lower and Hahn mag block that accepts Sten mags.

Put a Bushnell Red Dot on a 1/2 riser and a YHM BUIS on top.

I really haven't had the right amount of time to shake out the rifle yet. I fired 500 rounds through it so far and no failures of any kind but the accuracy I'm getting with 115 grain Remington is so-so. The rifle may like a heavier round and I haven't has a chance to fool around with that yet.

It's kinda heavy but handles OK and as expected, there is no recoil. I can pretty much nail a 14 inch gong at 70 yards repeatedly in a rapid fire mode. I'd hate like hell to have someone shooting at me with that thing and only have a pistol to shoot back :)

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/Mike____Smith/Collection/9mmARReceiver.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/Mike____Smith/Collection/9mmARReceiver-1.jpg


Yeah and as for price, I would guess I have close to 1,400 in this thing, including the ten Sten mags.

gtmerkley
July 10, 2008, 09:08 PM
Try a calico

If you enjoyed reading about "Best CQB 9mm carbine in good price range? Same question, for .22lr." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!