[simon]

The TERRORIST Org. "ELF" has struck in Kali burning down an auto mall and defacing hundreds of cars,mostly H2 Hummers, and most other SUV type vehicals.
The Mall is/was in El Monte,Ca and a couple of million dollers damage reported.

:cuss:

[Danimal]

Those pieces-of-crap ELF terrorists are headquartered in my hometown, Portland. They did the same thing to an auto lot in Eugene a year or so ago. Poured gasoline on a bunch of SUV's and then lit them up. They are number one on the FBI domestic terror watchlist, but all the hippy sandle-and-candle people around here treat them like heroes. They have burned, booby-trapped, blown up and destroyed many businesses across the West and it's time we start hunting them down. My educated guess is that anyone living in a tree on protest platform would be a good bet on where to start the questioning. :mad:

[simon]

Danimal,since I was in Portland last weekend,I think that another good start would be all the kids hanging around Pioneer Square.....

[cslinger]

Poured gasoline on a bunch of SUV's

Does anybody else but me see the irony in this. The hypocracy. Kind of like pro lifers blowing up an abortion clinic killing 6 in the process........HELLLLLLOOOOO!!!!!!! McFLY!!!!!!!

What happens when one of these loons get's shot for their efforts?

Hey I am all for fighting for what you believe in but what they are doing is no different then if I took up arms and starting shooting at police stations or something to that effect. It is wrong and crazy. How can these think that their point is being made to the average citizen. They are just going to be seen as loons. Just like when one of us does something loony.

Goofy little treehuggers.

[BigC]

If the authoritys know where they are headquartered. Why are these nuts not in jail?

Good too see you Danimal.

[Kharn]

Its a good thing the owner didnt respond to the burglar alarm (if one was present) with an M1A or FAL and start blasting when they began to light the place on fire. The media would have practically burned him at the stake for daring to hurt one of their little ELFies.

Kharn

[Danimal]

Hiya Cliffy! To answer your question, if the main focus is the economic destruction of America and you do so by spiking trees and sabotaging logging trucks, torching auto malls, burning down resort complexes and lumber mills.....opening a storefront like you were Starbucks or KrispyKreme miiiiight not be wise. :D

I misspoke when I said headquarters. Most of their members are based here, but the FBI doesn't know too much about them, and the whole hippy activist community protects these people. They are pretty secretive, in that many of these folks are average stinky protesters. They rendezvous for a night of SUV burning or torching a lumberyard....and then fade back into society, leaving only the faint acrid stench of patchouli and marijuana.

[DigitalWarrior]

I want to start a group "Owners Regaining Control". We will poison those damned endangered sucker fish so farmers can have water. We will conduct spotted owl shoots on private land (if permitted by the owner).

I bet us ORCs would feast on the bones of those androgenous ELFs.

Note this post is satire and is not to be taken as encouraging actual illegal activities, such as killing and eating of enviornmentalists.

[iamhistory]

They are probably trying to make a statement in support of their muslim brothers in arms.....you know that innocent group of people we big mean Americans have it out for?

[Skunkabilly]

simon, did ELF claim responsibility?

I wonder if my CRV will be considered an SUV. It's more like a raised Civic hatchback that only gets 28 mpg.

Summer vacation, and little punks are bored.

[ScottsGT]

quote:
"Note this post is satire and is not to be taken as encouraging actual illegal activities, such as killing and eating of enviornmentalists."

Besides, they taste really bad anyhow. :D

[simon]

Skunk,same MO as the above mentioned in Portland They did the same thing to an auto lot in Eugene a year or so ago. Poured gasoline on a bunch of SUV's and then lit them up.
+ they spraypainted all the other cars in the lot with slogans I "heart" pollution" "ELF" ,etc.

[BB93YJ]

:cuss: :fire: and save the matches....

I'd like a few of the members over on the Pirates4x4 board to catch these pseudo environmentalistic neoanarchist punks. There wouldn't be much left of them but a little greasy spot, a pair of Birkenstocks and the "faint acrid stench of patchouli and marijuana", with a set of Bogger tread prints right down the middle.

I loathe this type cretin. Cowards, creeps, and utterly contemptable.:fire:

[RTFM]

Um sorry to interrupt, I must have crawled out the west (or Left) facing side of my boulder... But who is ELF? Thanks..

[BB93YJ]

Earth Liberation Front:barf:

[AZTOY]

BB93YJ

I' have lurked on Pirates4x4 board a few times. I know want you are saying.:evil:

[Kharn]

RTFM:
As BB93YJ said, ELF stands for Earth Liberation Front. They're a bunch of left-wing eco-terrorists that go around torching structures under construction in wooded/natural areas. A few months (maybe a year ago at most), they torched a ski lodge that was nearly completion in the Colorado area. Anti-SUV, anti-oil, etc.

I hope they screw up and try to torch the wrong building sometime. Last time I checked, it was justified to shoot to prevent the arson of an occupied building, that would sure cut down on repeat offenders and maybe stop the whole movement in its tracks.

Kharn

[RTFM]

Thank you.

[Standing Wolf]

I guess they had to destroy the village to save it.

[Zundfolge]

I love the line at the end of this story http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95447,00.html

Genovese said whoever set the fire may have been trying to protest vehicles that pollute the air because of their poor fuel economy. But he said their approach was misguided.

"There's a lot more pollutants from the fire than the vehicles would pollute during their lifetime," he said. "There's hundreds of tons of pollutants that were spilled



I think its time to go re-read Rainbow Six :evil:



EDIT
Here's the ELF's homepage http://www.earthliberationfront.com/
anyone up for elf hunting?

[gun-fucious]

so i wonder what the balance sheet says when comparing:

A) the pollution from "X" Hummer H2s burning unleaded at 12 MPG for 20 years

B) setting 'X" Hummer H2s on fire and combusting the rubber and plastic in the open environment

[Ol' Badger]

Did anyone see that new Hummer commerical? With the kids go-cart racing and the kid made a Hummer go-cart and drove down the hill to the finish line!

[Navy joe]

Hmm, goes right back to my theory that to stem the tide of domsetic terrorism we need to stick a JDAM right in the middle of PETA HQ.
:evil:

Why is it that right wing wacko terrorists make the news for month and single-handedly get the Federal death penalty re0instated while left wing wacko terrorists like ALF, ELF, and the Black PAnthers get a coddled media approach? Must be that dang right wing biased media.

[Skunkabilly]

Yeah, it's those Republican Big Money Corporation Executive Vast Right Wing Conspiracy members in charge of the media!!! (well, just Foxnews :D)

[Erik]

"What happens when one of these loons get's shot for their efforts?"

Folks like me crack a smile at the news.

[vmi93]

I wonder if my CRV will be considered an SUV. It's more like a raised Civic hatchback that only gets 28 mpg.

If ELF thinks your CRV doesn't get enough MPG, then your SUV might be SOL. :D




Sorry, couldn't resist.:evil:

[Mark Tyson]

Arson is a despicable crime, as bad as robbery or rape. Arsonists are the same as bombers if you ask me. The owners of the dealership should use deadly force to deal with these slime.

[brookstexas]

Could be the folks who really run things decide to "Burn the Reichstag"
and blame ELF so they can stop the movement.
If it really was ELF they should go to jail.
BT

[Danimal]

As a lifelong Oregonian, I feel compelled to respond to the idea that developers are burning their own resorts and car dealers are torching their inventory.

If a vast right wing conspiracy did exist to do these deed and blame someone, would it not make more sense to blame an organization that is not so absolutely the lunatic fringe of any kind of eco-movement? ELF is already so far removed from any credible movement that all the liberals already distance themselves from any acts of arson, vandalism and sabotage. If this were to be an effective conspiracy, the patsy organization would have to be credible and powerful enough where being blamed for something of this magnitude would be damaging to their reputation and efforts.

The Reichstag fire was blamed on the Communists, a well-known and powerful political rival in 1930's Germany. Marinus Van Der Lubbe, a mildly retarded Dutch Communist was the perfect patsy. Not so far enough removed from the Communist movement in Germany they could deny a connection, and it was an easy raison d'etat for Hitler and Co. to put their plans into action.

Just my $.02

Dan

[larryw]

BT: I suppose you'd also like us to prove its Al-Queda who crashed the airliners into the WTC and Pentagon?

This has been their modus since Day 1. They never refute "supposed" ELF terrorist actions, only endorse them.

If it looks like a pig and smells like a pig, its a pig. Time for a pig roast.

[Futo Inu]

I'm sure Ashcroft & Co. will invoke their anti-terrorism laws now in place - after all, Nazis have little patience with beatniks, tree-huggers, and the like. Maybe he'll send them to GitMo as enemy combatants when they're caught.

[Danimal]

I'm new here, so I'll try to show a little respect for my elders, but that is the most immature comparison I have ever heard. If you don't like Ashcroft, that's fine. If you don't like the Patriot Act, you are entitled. But don't make martyrs out of these arsonists and bombers just because Ashcroft might oppose them in the course of his duties. ELF is costing my state hundreds of jobs. They have ruined countless logging operations in communities where families are struggling to put food on the table. They destroy businesses and facilities without a thought to the economic impact it has, the dammage it does, or the people it injures.

If you want to hate Ashcroft, do it on your own dime. Oppose him on the merits of opposing him. But don't make heroes out of scum like this, just to fill your agenda.

[Zundfolge]

The problem with the ELF is that they are not a singular, cohesive organization ... they are a set of ideals by which like minded people engage in similar activities. They are all trying to achieve the same end (the end of capitalism, technology, industry and in some cases the end of the human species) but for the most part members aren't "members" per se and don't know anyone in the other "cells".

Therefore, even if you catch one, you basicaly have caught one lone loonie.


I saw something on TV last night that showed that the two ELFers who did this where caught on video tape, so there's a good chance they will be caught (plus most people that engage in this type of activity will HAVE to brag about it to someone).

[DigitalWarrior]

I despise both Ashcroft, and ELF. By sayning that they may be treated unjustly (by the govt.) does not make them right. I actually think that mentality of Victim=Hero is responsible for a lot of the problems we currently face in this nation.

A hero is the guy who acts to help victims. Try to say that on a college campus, but you better have your running shoes on.

[tyme]

They're vandals and avowed anti-capitalists, but I don't think they qualify as terrorists. Part of their ideology is that attacks are not to hurt any people and, according to the publicity website, they have not.

The reason they're not caught is because there is no coordination. A few people get together, carry out some attack, then send anonymous email to the website to claim responsibility.

As for their hipocracy, their goal is not primarily to carry out acts with a minimum of pollution. They are trying to make it unprofitable for corporate entities like GMC, or the contractor which built the add-on to the Vail ski resort, to continue to build "gas-guzzling" hummers and expand ski resorts into lynx terroritory. They hope to accomplish this by carrying out enough vandalism that such companies cannot get insurance, thus making it economically infeasible to continue with activities objected to by the ELF.

It doesn't help marginalize the ELF when the media quotes some person involved with the investigation as saying the fire released hundreds of tons of pollutants into the environment. Exactly how would it do that? Hundreds of tons would mean the hummers would have had to have been completely vaporized, unless I'm failing to account for some other source of pollutants. Maybe they used hundreds of tons of spray paint? :rolleyes:

I don't agree with ELF methods and I don't agree with their anti-capitalist sentiment, but I think there are some valid reasons for not expanding a ski resort and destroying a major lynx habitat. Most of the area's environmental groups tried to get the Vail add-on shut down, but they were not successful because, well, Vail brings in tons of money, and money rules just about everything (not an accusation, just a fact).

Similarly, while torching H2s in protest is not acceptable, how unreasonable is it to make the standard engine a bit more efficient? Sure, some people will get a 316hp engine even if it's optional, but why not let the average consumer's laziness work for the environment rather than against it? It's not as though it'd hurt GM's bottom line. There are no real competitors to an H1 or H2, and even if there were and a 2xx-hp engine would hurt sales - the original engine would be available, it just wouldn't be standard.

I don't consider myself anti-capitalist at all, but since government and corporations don't seem to be enthusiastic about space colonies or looking for resources in space, and yet don't seem to care about energy constraints or pollution either, at some point there's going to be a serious problem - energy crunch or pollution crisis - that's going to cost far more to solve than it would to start curbing environmentally-unfriendly energy production and pollution today.

Capitalism may be the most efficient solution to problems, but people don't have perfect knowledge of interactions between polution and the environment - even scientists don't have perfect knowledge of polution and the environment. How unreasonable is it to hedge against a possible environmental disaster, that would be enormously expensive to fix, by implementing public policy designed to reduce (not eliminate) the most environmentally unfriendly activities of corporations?

As far as the ELF activities being corporation-directed sabotage to marginalize the greens, I don't think it's impossible. Just look at how ELF activities hurt the goals of environmental groups. Public support of environmental causes drops off when they see their favorite SUVs being torched by a radical environmental group. Not that such sabotage is likely, but I don't think it would be as counterproductive as it might look.

[Sergeant Bob]

Skunkabilly simon, did ELF claim responsibility?

Domestic Terrorism!

ELF claims responsibility for torching SoCal car, SUV dealerships (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20030822-1226-wst-cardealership-fire.html)

By Nada El Sawy
ASSOCIATED PRESS
12:26 p.m., August 22, 2003



Associated Press

WEST COVINA – Fires destroyed dozens of SUVs and a warehouse at an auto dealership Friday, and vehicles there and at three other dealerships were spray-painted with slogans such as "Fat, Lazy Americans."

"With all the evidence ... it's highly likely it's an arson fire," said Rick Genovese, fire marshal for West Covina, a Los Angeles suburb.

The radical group Earth Liberation Front issued an unsigned e-mail Friday calling the incidents "ELF actions," and the FBI was investigating the dealership fire as domestic terrorism, Police Chief Frank Wills said.

The underground group has claimed responsibility for a slew of arson attacks against commercial entities that members say damage the environment. It is suspected in a multimillion-dollar arson fire Aug. 1 that destroyed a five-story apartment complex under construction in San Diego, though an ELF e-mail claimed the group had not been in contact with those responsible in that case.

The blazes at the Clippinger Chevrolet dealership broke out about 5 a.m. Friday. Flames destroyed about 20 vehicles, mostly Hummer H2s, which are luxury SUVs patterned after the military's workhorse Humvee. Another 20 vehicles were badly damaged. A separate blaze caved in a warehouse roof.

There were no reports of injuries, but damage was estimated at $1 million.


SUVs at dealerships in nearby cities of Arcadia, Duarte and Monrovia were also vandalized, though there were no other fires.

Among the slogans written on the sides and hoods of vehicles were "I (heart) Pollution" and "American Wastefullness." "ELF" was written on at least one vehicle.

Brian Akre, spokesman for Hummer-maker General Motors, called Friday's destruction "reprehensible" and "some kind of misguided attempt to make a political statement."

Genovese said whoever set the fire may have been trying to protest vehicles that pollute the air because of their poor fuel economy. But he said their approach was misguided because "hundreds of tons of pollutants" were spilled off during the fire.

[Acolyte]

I think the majority of responses in this thread clearly illustrate the reason why we will never see a 'gun rights' uprising for a very very long time.
Not as much on this board as on others, but you all know the theme of "my cold dead hands" ... "What will you do when they come for your guns?" and so on ...
Well, multiply all the crap being dumped on the ELF by about 20x and that's the same thing that would happen if RKBA ever came to do or die time.
As long as "patriots" hate tree-huggers, cowboys hate vegetarians, pro-choice hates pro-life, country hates city, welfare hates capitalism, AK hates AR, ad infinitum, ad nauseum ... the powers that be will remain ever so.
Cowards, weaklings, punks, know-it-alls, f-offs, irresponsible pricks ... these labels can be easily applied to anyone.
So the ELF is a terrorist group, so is the KKK, so are inner city gangs, so are college kids who beat up gay guys, so are people at protest rallies, so are people who share mp3's, so are people who buy clothes 'made in China', so are people who don't have flags on their cars ... you all know what I'm talking about.
I'm the last person to spout "... free love, let's just all be tolerant maaaan ...", but I have to wonder if there isn't some truth to the axiom "judge not, lest ye be judged".

In fact, this reminds me of a passage from John Ross' "Unintended Consequences (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1888118040/) (page 324 in my version):

"You have to realize, many people saw those Nazis the same way we see policemen."
....
"Look, when you glance in your rearview mirror and see a police car behind you, you wish he wasn't there, right? You don't want him around, do you?"
....
"But what would you or your dad do if someone riding in the back of your car said 'Oh, Christ, a godamned cop's following us' and leaned out the window and blasted him? You'd shi+, right?" ....
"And if you saw some stranger kill a cop - the same cop who just gave you a speeding ticket because he had to make his ticket quota, what would you do? Would you clap, and say 'Good riddance, *********?' Hell, no, you'd immediately report it. You'd give a full description, and you'd read in the papers about the patrolmen's fine record. You'd hear about the number of arrests he made, and how he'd been promoted to lieutenant sooner than anyone in his class at the academy, and what a good husband and father he was, and you'd see a picture of his greiving widow and three fatherless kids, and you'd feel real sorry for them. Even though at the same time, you're trying to figure out what to do about car insurance since you got canceled."

[Zundfolge]

They're vandals and avowed anti-capitalists, but I don't think they qualify as terrorists. Part of their ideology is that attacks are not to hurt any people and, according to the publicity website, they have not.

I'll respectfully disagree. Among other things, these people spike trees, and there is only one reason to spike trees and that is to maim or kill lumberjacks, so no, I don't buy their "attacks are not to hurt any people" statements. They also set fire to residential developments, which are close to occupied residential areas ... the idea is to scare soccermoms in the suburbs with the fear that their little crumb-munchers could be toasted next.

If I were to go blow up an ATF or IRS office at 3 in the morning (so as to not hurt anyone) I'd still be considered a "terrorist".

[10-Ring]

Yeah, terrorists come in all shapes, sizes & causes :scrutiny: :cuss:

[Sergeant Bob]

Zundfolge If I where to go blow up an ATF or IRS office at 3 in the morning (so as to not hurt anyone) I'd still be considered a "terrorist".
And there'd be a nationwide manhunt, it'd be all over the news nationwide, the media would have you hung out to dry before you were even caught.

But if it's just some civilian's car, home, business or livelyhood, who cares? It makes the news wires then.....gone.
How many unsolved arson's are there a year?
How many people are killed in them?
Does anybody think ELF is going to take credit for a fire in which someone dies?
How many logging "accidents" have there been which most people never hear about? Logging accidents aren't very sexy so they don't make the news.
Of course ELF states on their website they have not killed or injured anyone.
They also tell you how to set fires with electrical timers.

Who is ELF?

The Earth Liberation Front is an international underground movement consisting of autonomous groups of people who carry out direct action according to the E.L.F. guidelines. Since 1997, E.L.F. cells have carried out dozens of actions resulting in close to $100 million in damages.

Modeled after the Animal Liberation Front, the E.L.F. is structured in such a way as to to maximize effectiveness. By operating in cells (small groups that consist of one to several people), the security of group members is maintained. Each cell is anonymous not only to the public but also to one another. This decentralized structure helps keep activists out of jail and free to continue conducting actions.

[Duncan Idaho]

What happens when one of these loons get's shot for their efforts?I laugh until I wet my pants.

[Malone LaVeigh]

Among other things, these people spike trees, and there is only one reason to spike trees and that is to maim or kill lumberjacks, so no, I don't buy their "attacks are not to hurt any people" statements.
There's a lot of misinformation here about ecotage in general. For one thing there has never been a case of anyone injured by ELF or Earth First! sabotage. There was a single sawmill operator in Cloverdale, Calif. in about 1987 hurt pretty bad by a spiked tree, but most of the evidence in that case pointed away from environmentalists and toward a local disgrunteled person who was never identified. The whole point of spiking trees is not, in fact, to "maim or kill" but to SAVE TREES. The Earth First! manual Ecodefense makes it clear that it is imperative to publicize the spiking as the goal is to increase the expense of the logging and thereby less likely to occur.

The merits of ecotage have been debated widely among environmentalists ever since the idea was popularized in Ed Abbey's The Monkeywrench Gang. When I was in on those discussions, even the most militant preservationists did not advocate arson, as there is no way you can be 100% sure someone won't be hurt, either in the act or among firefighters. From what I've seen ELF is a pretty juvenile group that has joined the long line of zealots from Hitler to Stalin to Mao to Clinton to Bush who believe that their ideologies are more important than human life. These people do much more harm than good.

On the general subject of ecotage, however, I'm open to argument.

[Orthonym]

What Tyme said.

Oh, and I don't care if you're a murderous arsonist or not, smelling like patchouli would get you broken on the wheel, or impaled, or boiled in oil, or something if I were the absolute despot running things here.

[HBK]

ELF terrorists should shot on sight. Screw their "intentions".:rolleyes: :barf:

[Goaltender66]

For those wanting a clearer picture of ELF, I point you to their WEBSITE (http://www.earthliberationfront.com/main.shtml) where you can find fun topics such as "Setting Fires With Electrical Timers."

I'm not one to say they need to be persecuted because of content (in other words, I don't think that reading about how to burn down buildings should be illegal, but actually doing is should be), but a quick tour of their website seems to make a lot of things clear.

I do not see any moral relevance between the odious activites of ELF (for which they proudly take credit) and the actions of our Founders, or future hypothetical actions in a similar situation. ELF seeks to destroy America, in my opinion. Private property rights has been proven to be the best guarantor of the environment. And to protect my private property rights, I own, carry, and know how to use firearms. Will they visit me, assuming they know I'm armed? Or will they continue to do their hijinks in areas where the victims are much less likely to be armed?

Hey, ELF is assisting in making two different points.....

Goalie