Handgun on an airplane - doing everything right?

[Anna's Dad]

I'm soon going to travel for the first time with a handgun via Southwest Airlines. I wasn't going to deal with it but since my Florida concealed permit is good in Missouri (my destination) I figured that I might as well!

I have read the TSA and Southwest rules but would just like to make sure I'm doing everything right.

1) I have a hard case (not sure if it's plastic or aluminum). The case locks with suitcase-type locks (i.e. not very secure)

2) In the case I plan on putting the handgun, a magazine (not in the gun) and a box of ammo. The box is a factory box of 50 rounds but is not sealed and is not completely full. Caliber is 380 Auto.

3) Locked case will be inside another soft piece of luggage.

4) I will check-in at the counter and will declare that I'm checking a firearm and ammunition

5) I will answer all questions and submit to any required inspections prior to returning the locked case to the luggage.

From what I've read, I think everything should be OK, but I'd love any feedback from others who have done this.

These were my concerns even though they seem to be acceptable based on TSA and Southwest rules:
1) Case not strong enough
2) Locks not very secure
3) Ammunition is in the same case as the handgun
4) Ammunition box is not sealed

I'd appreciate responses from others who have done this before. Also, how much time should I expect this to add to the check-in process? Hopefully it's a pretty quick thing, but I have my doubts.

Thanks!

[Drail]

Only thing I would recommend is pack the ammo separately from the pistol. Most of the airlines I have dealt with (and they're all different) want the ammo in a factory box or a hard compartmented plastic box like reloaders use. I have never been asked or volunteered that the ammo was in the suitcase. Might want to ask SWA if they have any issues with the ammo. I also place a big padlock through the handles of the pistol case and you should keep the key on you at all times. If TSA wants in the pistol case they are required to have you open and relock it. Good luck.

[Anna's Dad]

Thanks for the comments.

I was thinking the same thing about the ammo, but their site's (TSA & Southwest) specifically say it can be in the same case. Maybe I'll do that separate them anyway.

The case I'm putting it in doesn't allow a padlock, just small key locks like on a normal suitcase.

You think that's OK or should I switch to a factory case and put a padlock on it?

[eliphalet]

You need to contact the airlines and go see someone in person, know what is allowed and what is not and have a copy of the rules and regulations in hand the day of your flight, and arrive early, or you may find you and your handgun are not flying together as planned.

[Drail]

Definitely consult your airline for their specific regs. Like I said they're all different. I strongly recommend a case like the Doskocil plastic model with handles on top and bottom that you can lock together with a good padlock. They're fairly indestructable, offer good protection and they're inexpensive. Standard luggage locks are very easy to overcome and you will end up with an emtpy case when you arrive at your destination.

[GHF]

Based on my experiences, I would say the following:

1) I have a hard case (not sure if it's plastic or aluminum). The case locks with suitcase-type locks (i.e. not very secure)

I would get a better case, more like the one I have:

http://hunting.flambeauoutdoors.com/otdrs_hunting/gun_cases/guncases.asp

This one uses two padlocks.

2) In the case I plan on putting the handgun, a magazine (not in the gun) and a box of ammo. The box is a factory box of 50 rounds but is not sealed and is not completely full. Caliber is 380 Auto.

Two ideas:


Southwest allows you to keep the ammo in the magazines, as long as you can completely cover the round at the top in a mag holder. Then you only have to put the pipe round in the box.
Put the loaded mags in the same piece of luggage, but not in the locked gun case.


3) Locked case will be inside another soft piece of luggage.

Good - but the luggage label should only include the following:
Your Name
Your Cell Phone - if you have one, or your home phone if you do not
Your personal email address - if you have one
NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATED


4) I will check-in at the counter and will declare that I'm checking a firearm and ammunition


Have the rules for the airline in hand when you check this non-descript bag at the airport.
Make sure you have the keys to the lockable hard-sided case with you and you alone (Per Federal Regulations § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals - http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=1f020769f93df9bc371bd1612b0fd309&rgn=div8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.9.2.10.6&idno=49) at all times. You will have to open the lockable hard-side case

to demonstrate to the airline that the weapon(s) are not loaded at check in
if the TSA wants to see.


5) I will answer all questions and submit to any required inspections prior to returning the locked case to the luggage.
Have the serial number(s) and descriptions of your weapons on you, so if they "disappear" you can report the loss/theft to the:

airline
FAA Regional Office
ATF Regional Office

immediately.

[Anna's Dad]

Great ideas everyone.

I have read all of the SWA regs so I'm pretty sure I'm OK there. I like the idea of printing them and having that with me.

I'll also take the advise of having the gun's info (including serial #) with me should the worst occur.

Thanks again. I can always count on THR for some good advice/info.

[skinewmexico]

Southwest has never given me any trouble. I'd hang around in case the x-ray guys want to look at it.

[welldoya]

Personally, I wouldn't chance it.
My wife and I flew out to Vegas for a few days back in February.
After I arrived back home, I threw my suitcase on the bed and starting unpacking. There was a bunch of dried grass in there amongst my clothes.
Now how do you think it got there ? Baggage handlers going thru my luggage on the tarmac is how. It's a big problem. 60 minutes did a story on it a couple years ago. I wouldn't pack anything of value in a suitcase.

[chris in va]

I just flew with my P11 for the first time last month. It was easy. Gun in a Pelican case with empty magazine. Ammo was in a separate box meant for reloaders, ie no loose rounds.

No real issues, just declared it at the counter. TSA guy came over, had me open the case and asked if it was unloaded. Using a little stick he poked around in the bag asking about the ammo.

When I got home, the box was wrapped in TSA tape. They also left a 'love letter' stating the bag was inspected.

Oh, and I chatted briefly with the TSA guy. He said hunters fly with their guns all the time later in the year and he's seen it all. This was United out of Huntsville airport.

[LanEvo`]

NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATEDWhy not? Just curious.

[Jeff White]

Last June I flew on Southwest from St Louis to Dallas. I carried my Colt Series 70 Government Model and my S&W Model 36. I put both of them into the hard case my Kimber Warrior came in along with a box containing the ammunition. I secured the Kimber case with a padlock. I placed the case into a suitcase that I checked.

Reported for my flight and told the woman at the counter I wanted to check a firearm. We moved to the area where the counter was cut out to receive the baggage. I opened the suitcase and the hard case and showed her that both weapons were unloaded. She placed a tag inside my hard case and escorted me to the TSA check point, and told the TSA clerk that I had a firearm. I offered him the key to the suitcase and hard case and he told me that they might not need to open it, it depended on what it looked like on the Xray. They ended up opening it for a quick look, looked it back up and gave me the keys back.

There wasn't a crowd at the counter at the time and the whole process took maybe five minutes from the time I told the woman at the counter I wanted to check a firearm to the time they put my bag on the conveyor.

I was prepared with copies of both SWA's and TSA's rules in my possession, but they weren't necessary. All in all it was a painless process.

Jeff

[Anna's Dad]

I just checked my Doskosport cases (I have two of them) and they aren't very secure.

Even with both pad locks in place, you can flex the case enough to actually remove things from it!

Based on this, I'll either have to go with the case I have or buy a new one before my trip.

The one I have is probably fine, but it's locks could definately be forced if someone really wanted to open it. Of course, the entire case could just be taken if someone really wanted it that bad.

Assuming I go through with it, I'll post a follow-up with my experience.

Thanks everyone for all the advise.

[ArchAngelCD]

I would suggest a easier method, just over-night your handgun to yourself via Fedex. Even though most people have no issues while bringing along a handgun while flying I have heard horror stories too. If you just Fedex your gun to your destination you can avoid any chances of problems.

[evan price]

I just flew a major business trip with several airports with my XD in its original hard case, packed as per TSA guidelines, and had no problems except one TSA weenie who even wanted to deny me having a baggie of spent brass in my suitcase.
Seriously, it's a nonissue.

As far as how "secure" the locked hard box is, remember this: No matter how well you lock a hard plastic case, it is easy to open with a hacksaw or a sharp knife. The same with soft-side luggage or duffels. Locks just keep out the curious. Nothing man-portable is secure!

When I travel- unless I *need* a special gun- I travel with a box-stock, generic, 100% reliable pistol that I would not cry over if I got to trade it for an insurance cheque.
My XD is a pre-melonite model with no special anything. If I got a $400 cheque from insurance, I'd call it a wash.

[Tom Fury]

Where are you going in Fla.? Why not just buy the ammo there?
Cheers, TF

[CWL]

The only advice I would add is that you print out 2 sets of TSA & Southwest gun travel rules.

Carry one set with you and include another set inside the case with the guns.

[hankpac]

The idea is to be able to carry as soon as you dump your bags into the trunk of your rental car. I won't go off the lot without dropping a mag into the arm, and putting it into the holster, and putting it on. so I won't be waiting to buy ammo at the destination. also I want an arm that is quick to re-assemble (I drop the slide from the receiver, so there is no need to open the action by the TSA). The Sig P220 I use is a rapid re-assemble (drop the barrel in, and apply the spring and guide, slide the part onto the receiver, and turn the locking lever . Pop the mag in, and drop the slide, Decock, and ready to go). Takes about 15 seconds total.
If I was going to have to drive across town or wait till the next day to carry armed, because I had to buy ammo I wouldn't bother at all.The idea is to be able to carry as soon as you dump your bags into the trunk of your rental car. I won't go off the lot without dropping a mag into the arm, and putting it into the holster, and putting it on. so I won't be waiting to buy ammo at the destination. also I want an arm that is quick to re-assemble (I drop the slide from the receiver, so there is no need to open the action by the TSA). The Sig P220 I use is a rapid re-assemble (drop the barrel in, and apply the spring and guide, slide the part onto the receiver, and turn the locking lever . Pop the mag in, and drop the slide, Decock, and ready to go). Takes about 15 seconds total.
If I was going to have to drive across town or wait till the next day to carry armed, because I had to buy ammo I wouldn't bother at all.
Here is a horrror story for you:
In the days before 911, and before TSA's etc, I was returning home from Burbank CA, on SWA. I told the young girl at the counter that I had a firearm to declare, and pointed to my bag, which I had already placed on the scale. She got nervous, and said "just a minute" like she didn't know what to do. she talked to another agent, who told her something, and she went to the phone. A few moments later a huge older armed officer in a brown uniform (not a cop, but not private security) walked up beside me, stood facing the girl, and in a huge voice, loudly said "Where's the guy with the gun?" I almost crapped right there.
I said quietly, "It's me, and that's the bag." He motioned to the bag and told me to follow him. I walked alongside him with the eyes of everyone in the terminal staring at me. We went to a closet at one side of the area, and he opened it. There was a 50 gallon drum, with a 6" pipe sticking out of it. The barrel was filled with sand. He gestured to me to open the bag, and hand him the weapon. I did so, and he cleared it with the muzzle poked into the pipe. He handed it back to me, I dropped it back into the case and suitcase, and zipped it up. He walked me back, to the ticket counter, and I handed the bag back to a different lady, who seemed much more familiar with the routine. I looked around and people were still staring at me, but the officer had walked off without a word.
I always try to keep things cool, and understated, but for a moment, that was chilling.

[dairycreek]

A word to the wise. Call the office of the airlines you'll be flying with. I have found that different airlines have somewhat different takes on the TSA rules. Not a big problem but something you will want to know (and deal with) BEFORE you arrive at the airport. Just follow all the rules and you should be okay.

[yahkohb]

my last few flights on southwest with a handgun have been pretty painless.

one extra piece of advice: whether we like it or not, guns make a lot of people nervous, and if you've got a nervous clerk or TSA agent and you act like a smart-ass or a bossy know-it-all, you're just going to make things worse. best to take the lead in establishing a calm non-confrontational vibe, and try to be patient and helpful.

[Anna's Dad]

Well, I did bring a gun with me and it wasn't exactly smoothe, but everything was OK in the end.

I checked in at the counter and was given a small card to complete and sign. The card was put into the locked case per the direction of the agent at the counter.

About 10-15 minutes later, I'm paged back to the counter. Apparently there was some TSA memo that said the card couldn't be in the locked case so I had to open it and remove the card.

Next complication was at my destination. We had checked 8 bags between us. Southwest managed to mispace 3 of the 8. Of course, one of them was the bag with the gun in it!

They found everything later that day and delivered it to me at 12:30 AM (the following morning). Nothing was missing or damaged.

On my return flight, I was told once again to put the card in the locked case. I mentioned what had happened on my last flight and she calls over what I assume was her supervisor to confirm. Here is her response:

<ExtremeAttitude>Sir, you are in St. Louis now, not in Orlando. We don't do things in St. Louis like they do them in Orlando.</ExtremeAttitude>

I explain that I was just trying to prevent a problem as I was told that this was a TSA requirement (federal) and shouldn't be different between the two airports:

<ExtremeAttitude>That's the way we're going to do it</ExtremeAttitude>

I politely asked her to stop speaking to me sarcastically which she, of course, denied doing.

Unless she really didn't think that I knew I was in St. Louis and not Orlando and that she was being helpful informing me of this, I'd have to say otherwise.

Regardless, the return leg went fine and all was waiting for me as expected (after a 90 minute lightning delay that prevented them from unloading the plane but somehow didn't stop us from landing).

[skywalkrNCSU]

one thing i would add for people wanting to take their firearm on a flight is to use a tsa approved lock on their suitcase. sure you dont need to but i would rather know that only certain people can open my suitcase so the average joe wont just snag my gun in its case.

the lock i got was one that shows if a TSA agent opens your bag (has a feature that they cant reset) and that is always nice.

[Fire-4-Effect]

I saw this thread and had to post...

3 years ago I went on a hog hunting trip in Florida with my Dad in Florida. I live outside of Baltimore so flew Southwest via BWI. I took a couple of M1 garands and a 94 Winchester in 32 Win along. They were in a hard case with solid locks and wheels to help transport it.

The airport was swamped with people and the line at the ticket counter was very long. After about a 40 minute wait I got to the front counter and declared the rifles. The lady was a pro and knew what to do. I filled out a few small cards and she asked me to show her the rifles were not loaded. I opened the case and pulled out the M1 and racked the action open and showed it to her...

There was an immediate reaction from the people in line... not really anything you could understand, more so just sounds, like grunts and whines and sighs. Then some little kid screamed to his mom, "Look, that guy has a gun mommy!". After I had proven that all three rifles were empty and were back in the cases everything calmed down. It was only like 30 seconds for the whole thing but I was a bit nervous. It just felt uncomfortable and made me nervous.

Later on when sitting on the plane my reaction turned to anger, anger that I felt nervous over a right that had been provided to me in the constitution. The anti-gun lobby is having a major impact on our nations sensitivity to guns to the point where I feel like I am doing something wrong... Man, that really bothers me.

I feel desperate for the state of affairs of our country... Where are the good leaders? the real men? We are left with only straw men...

OK, I need to calm down... :-)

PR

[Anna's Dad]

I had a very different experience at the counter. I was surprised to find that they did not ask me to demonstrate that the gun was unloaded.

Orlando asked me if it was unloaded and looked at the magazine (not in the gun).

St. Louis didn't ask or look!

[mister2]

Glad it went well. The next time should not be as nerve-wracking.

[RPCVYemen]

I wasn't going to deal with it but since my Florida concealed permit is good in Missouri (my destination) I figured that I might as well!


Has the issue of what happens when you are routed (due to a storm, etc.) to a destination that does not permit you to possess the weapons ever been settled?

I remember a story a while ago where someone was re-routed to Newark or JFK, and had to spend the night. When he declared the weapons, he was promptly arrested for a weapons violation in the city/state where the airport was located.

I don't recall if this problem was ever resolved.

Mike

[RobXD9]

Glad you got everything together finally. Sorry your bags got mixed up.

A few things...

1) The people working in Orlando International Airport have the IQ of a toad. They seem to not have much of an education or comprehension of basic social skills.

Like the time the Southwest agent told me I wasn't allowed to check a firearm if I was at a self-service kiosk. When I asked why she said, "because no one mans these stations." To which I asked what she and the two other ladies were doing there? Her reply, "We're here to help get people checked in."

Here's your sign.

2) Whatever the TSA agent told Southwest was wrong. That firearms declaration card goes INSIDE the locked firearm case. It's the only way to prove unequivocally that you declared that firearm.

3) Never EVER use a TSA approved lock. Doing so gives the TSA carte blanch to inspect your gun without ever telling you they've done so. Go to Wal Mart. Buy a small keyed Master lock. As another poster mentioned, keep the key with you and ONLY you.

If TSA needs to inspect it, they'll call you back.

For this reason I always wait at near the reservation counter for 5-10 minutes after my bag has been sent back. This way if the TSA needs to inspect it, I'm there.

The only benefit of flying out of Orlando is their TSA screeners are outside in the reservation area. So while I lived there I could stand there and verify the bags went out on the the loading dock.

And if there was an inspection, I was right there with a key to supervise it.

As for being in St. Louis and not Orlando - what she probably meant to say was, "We're in the United States now. We don't work the same was as the folks in the far Northern Caribbean."

In closing, other then in a dingbat agent now and then, I have never had any issue with flying with a firearm on Southwest.

Rob

[Anna's Dad]

Has the issue of what happens when you are routed (due to a storm, etc.) to a destination that does not permit you to possess the weapons ever been settled?

I guess it's possible, but don't most places allow you to have an unloaded firearm in a locked case? I certainly wouldn't attempt to carry said gun where it is verboten.

[brickeyee]

... but don't most places allow you to have an unloaded firearm in a locked case?

The Northeast is probably the biggest problem, especially New York, but it is all over.
Some states require an identification card of ALL firearm owners in the state, and since you are NOT a resident you will not have one.