Our well reasoned arguments against emotion.


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nicki
June 7, 2008, 10:29 PM
Over the years I have noticed our side has well reasoned and sound arguements to support and justify our right to keep and bear arms.

Our opponents resort to emotion, they have no facts, yet they still have support, why.

Based on what I have learned in the last few years I have to agree with Anthony Robbins that emotion is everything.

In the latest book Financial Intelligence by Robert Kiyosaki, he mad a comment that researchers have found that emotional arguements are 24X more powerful than logic in the way the human brain works.

What I am getting at is this, we have the facts behind us, but what we should do is reframe our positions so that we can make an emotional appeal.

Emotional appeal will allow us to reach across the political spectrum and expand our base of support.

Isn't the real issue not just guns, but Freedom.

To stay free, to maintain the right to peaceably protest, we must have the ability to remove corrupt government by force.

Yes, criminals with guns kill, but if we disarm the populace, we not only will have armed criminals, we will have a situation where if the government becomes evil and corrupt, all dissent can be outlawed and we will have no means to restore a just government.

Right now we are living under soft tyranny, when our guns are gone, the tyranny won't be so soft.

Nicki

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Standing Wolf
June 7, 2008, 10:56 PM
Isn't the real issue not just guns, but Freedom.

Yep. Unfortunately, a great many people are afraid of freedom, and as many more are still more deeply afraid of allowing freedom to others.

I believe much of what's passed off as "education" is indoctrination in the way of fear.

George C Morrison
June 7, 2008, 11:03 PM
Emotions run high ,but still in the latest Gallup Poll ,73% of Americans believe in the individual right to bear arms.
You'd never know this from your MSM or local reporting though.Wait, USA Today is part of the MSM!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-02-26-guns-cover_N.htm

neviander
June 7, 2008, 11:09 PM
emotion is everything
Today it certainly holds a majority sway, but I believe that majority ebbs and flows with the spiritual mindset of the culture. I won't go into any kind of religious rant, but you all know what I'm talking about.

Also, emotion seems to be everything because that's what's broadcast all over the world 24/7, 365 on our "unbiased" media; pull at anyone's heartstrings (i.e. 6 year old girl accidentally getting shot in a self defense situation...etc.) and they will crumble, unless their common sense kicks in and they make an informed decision. That is the main problem, people are not informed, so they fall back on what they know....what they feel.

I believe a lot of people are making emotional appeals every day, such as informing people of what the government would be capable of if we were all helplessly unarmed, what a determined criminal is capable of if he doesn't see an immediate threat (gun). The 2 main problems are: 1. we can't get our message out one tenth as efficiently as the mainstream media can get theirs out, and 2. people are fickle, unless something tragic happens to them, they won't remember, or just won't care, again that falls back on the spiritual condition.

We do have the facts, logic and even a strong emotional argument behind us, but in my humble opinion, it's gonna take more than that.

BrianB
June 7, 2008, 11:34 PM
One of the common things I've noticed is how our 2nd amendment "opponents" gravitate towards a world where guns make us all crazies, and increase the likelihood of "bad" things happening. Without a doubt, they may be correct. The likelihood of a firearm discharge may in fact be increased with more firearms on civilians. However, this is probably going to be from LEGAL, defensive measures against criminals, rather than CRIMINAL acts against innocent civilians.

We at THR know that a trained, law abiding, mentally healthy, mature adult creates a natural deterrent to CRIMINAL activity---when armed. The opposition replies, "well, why live in fear and paranoia? You don't NEED a gun to go to (insert peaceful location here)!"

Here's the emotional hook. Sir/Maam, it's not the probability of an event, it's what's at stake that matters. Those people who went to Brown's chicken in Palatine, Illinois in January 1993 shouldn't have NEEDED a firearm that night. But they did. I have FIVE friends and my brother that nearly went there that night!!!! Those kids at Virginia Tech shouldn't have NEEDED to defend themselves that day..but they did, didn't they? Northern Illinois University?

So, my naive friend, I agree with you that I PROBABLY won't need my firearm the next time I take my children for a Happy Meal, but IF I ever do, I'd REALLY like it if several trained grown-ups (me even!) could stand up to the evil, insane, murderous, gunman/gunwoman.

Hugs and kisses & kumbahyah, my gentle, kind, emotional neighbor. Be sure to cancel your fire insurance, auto insurance, and catastrophic health insurance on your way home. Best of luck!

goon
June 8, 2008, 01:58 AM
Emotion?

Imagine someone raping your wife, mother, girlfriend, or daughter after 911 just put you on hold.
Imagine someone beating your husband with a tire iron or taking a crowbar to a 12 year old out in front of your house while you stand there helpless.

Guess what?
Thinking about that kind of thing scares the hell out of me and there is no way I'll ever find that kind of circumstance acceptable.
A M&P9, AR-15, or Mossberg 500 won't remove the fear but they can at least give me a way to stand up to it.

Damn right my decisions are based on emotion.

nicki
June 8, 2008, 03:22 AM
Okay guys, since our opponents use fear as an emotion and it is a powerful one, how about some suggestions on using fear to promote our right of self defense.

misANTHrope
June 8, 2008, 08:10 AM
Yep. Unfortunately, a great many people are afraid of freedom, and as many more are still more deeply afraid of allowing freedom to others.

I think the reason for this is that freedom comes prepackaged with a matched set of personal responsibilities, and I think we can all agree that the level of personal responsibility in this country is trending ever downward.

See, that's the thing about real freedom. People can easily desire the freedom to speak their opinions to others, or their freedom to travel freely to Starbucks for a double latte. But it takes a larger dose of character to accept that true freedom also means the freedom to fail, the freedom to be wrong, the freedom to make mistakes.

Real freedom means that in these situations, you have only yourself to blame, and no one wants to admit that. This isn't a bad thing automatically- does anyone really want to acknowledge that they dug their own grave? Of course not; but the difference between people of character and the "some freedom" folks is that those with character swallow their pride and learn from their mistakes, while the members of that other group grope desperately around for a scapegoat.

Fear is natural. But some folks learn to control their fear, and even channel it into a good thing. Others let their fear control them and cloud their judgment.

Phil Lee
June 8, 2008, 11:59 AM
nicki states: Based on what I have learned in the last few years I have to agree with Anthony Robbins that emotion is everything.

I prefer logic and truth, but welcome you composing your own emotional arguments.

I await with eager anticipation your leadership in the production of men shedding tears (of joy) at successful defenses of their families using firearms against thugs.

Standing Wolf
June 8, 2008, 03:30 PM
I think the reason for this is that freedom comes prepackaged with a matched set of personal responsibilities, and I think we can all agree that the level of personal responsibility in this country is trending ever downward.

Sad to say, I'm afraid that hits the nail squarely on the oft-cited "head."

Shadow1198
June 8, 2008, 11:31 PM
I think it would be effective to impress upon anti's why they should be even MORE afraid considering they are unarmed and have no real definitive way to defend themselves or insure their own safety as a firearm can provide. Also, I think explaining the 4 golden firearm safety rules, and dispelling myths about guns accidentally going off, and explaining to them there is no such thing as an AD only negligent discharges, it might go a long way towards alleviating some fears. I seriously think there are still lots of people out there that actually think guns just go off at random. True, some guns aren't "drop safe" but the fact remains it still requires some wrongful human interaction to accomplish.

Another fact I think could be useful is simply explaining how someone can dislike guns, still learn firearm safety, and still own a firearm and have the ability to defend themselves. Whether they like them or not really isn't the issue, self defense is ultimately the issue as far as I'm concerned. Many people just seem to think that having any firearm in the house means bad things ARE going to happen, their kids will all be killed by them, etc etc. I think it's important to make them aware that, you follow 4 safety rules, store the gun in a proper manner away from curious little hands, and teach your kids safety or that guns are dangerous, or whatever. It's not guns that are the issue, 99% of the time it's people being unsafe, not teaching their chlidren to respect firearms and the like. With no other subject have I ever seen such a movement for a lack of education. It is a generally held belief that education is superior to a lack thereof. Guns are a reality in this country, and there are far too many of them here for them to ever really go away completely as far as I'm concerned. Even if parents don't like them, don't want their kids around them, or whatever, at the least they should still teach their children about firearms, to respect them, not to handle them unless supervised, etc. Hell, some adults can't even learn that one. ;)

I think the one key issue here that would be effective to focus on is that anti-gun individuals, for the most part, generally seem to have one emotion in common. They are afraid. Usually they know nothing of firearms, nothing about how they operate, nothing about firearm safety or the 4 golden rules, etc etc. People are afraid of what they don't understand. I think understanding this, sympathizing, and helping them to understand that it's not the gun they should be afraid of but the demented criminal using it, then maybe they might open their minds a bit. Maybe THEN, they will realize that all the bills, laws, regulations, licensing, bans, etc in the world will not stop determined criminals. If you can actually get them to realize THAT, the battle will have been nearly won, and it won't be long before they realize that they are unarmed and maybe they might want to learn something about firearms or go to a shooting range and see what it's all about. Remember, they're afraid. Make them understand that if they have the gun, follow 4 simple rules ALL the time, then they will no longer have to live their lives in fear as they will instead be taking charge of them, taking charge of their own self defense. I have never been an anti but, I would think that sort of self realization would be an extremely empowering feeling, especially so for someone constantly living in fear.

Oh, one last thing. Topics such as these, I think we could go on and on and on about lots of facts, history, famous quotes, litigation history, blah blah blah blah. I think the sheer scope of factual evidence on our side is a bit overwhelming to most. I think it is most important to simplify things rather than dragging on and on about a lot of stuff that will likely fly right over their heads. Stick to emotion, common sense, with a few simple facts thrown in and I think it will win more people over or at least open their minds a bit.

icebones
June 8, 2008, 11:36 PM
good point shadow, irrational and unmature fears.

i think that the general populace is starting to see the antis for what they really are.

and the anti's arguments are getting a little old and worn out. as are their reasons for gun-control

same old sh**, just a diffrent day.

OldCowHand
June 8, 2008, 11:57 PM
This was a pretty good speech that incorporated some emotional elements to bridge the gap to a roomful of anti-rights folks: http://gunlaws.com/DuquesneSpeech.htm

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