What do EMTs do with your gun?


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siglite
June 9, 2008, 01:16 PM
Assuming you're hurt. Car crash, motorcycle crash, struck by lighting, whatever, and you're transported. What do the EMTs do with your sidearm when they find it?

I've always wondered this, and nearly found out myself last year, but was able to limp to the doc-in-a-box and waive transport.

But if they'd had to throw me on a gurney and into the meat-wagon... what would they have done with my firearm?

And, saying it somehow makes it all the way to the hospital undiscovered, what would the ER docs do with the thing?

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The Tourist
June 9, 2008, 01:19 PM
LOL. It has been my experience that when my buddies awake in the hospital they always ask, "How's my bike?"

If your license is current, and there will be police officers around, the firearm will just be gathered up.

But in a very real sense, if you are "meat on a gurney," don't you have more pressing problems?

RustyShackelford
June 9, 2008, 01:52 PM
A few years ago, I read a news report of a small town, Indiana County PA, medical examiner/coroner that was caught stealing items from dead bodies/death scenes, :uhoh:. I have spoken to many cops/security guards/EMTs/firefighters that have seen incidents like the post...

RS :cool:

Pax Jordana
June 9, 2008, 01:56 PM
In PA law it is illegal to bring 'any weapon' onto an ambulance, unless you're an on-duty LEO.

I dunno how it is in other places, but we don't dispatch without a police unit. They don't always show up, but you can get on the radio and ask 'em to if they don't. Were I to come upon an injured and armed person, I'd do just that. They're usually glad to swing by if you promise them something interesting :)

And no, an ambulance asking for a cop is not like grandma making a noise complaint - we get pretty prompt service.

ETA: though if you're bad off, especially in a car/bike accident, that means you're a trauma case and your butt is getting moved quick like quick. In that case, were we to come upon your gun in the ambulance it'd ride with you all the way to the hospital for the ER to deal with (just like the rest of you!)

The Tourist
June 9, 2008, 01:57 PM
coroner...stealing...from dead bodies/death scenes

If they ever have to pry me out of the grill of a Chevy, I guess they could have my Emerson.

The Lone Haranguer
June 9, 2008, 02:01 PM
My guess would be that the investigating LEOs will "take charge" of it. What they would do with it (hold it in a property room, etc.) or how you (or your next of kin) would reclaim it is anyone's guess.

The one time I was in a car crash and injured was A - 16 years ago, and B - I was not carrying any gun at the time. My totaled car was taken to impound.

Eric F
June 9, 2008, 02:08 PM
Boy do I have some stories for this thread!

I have been a firefighter for 20 years, worked with 9 departments(counting volunteer and mutual aid departments) First department I worked for we were advised to leave it in place and allow a police officer to remove the firearm because "we did not know what we were doing with guns".......um yeah right! Well one day we get a motorcycle accident guy was in dire need of a med-evac has a 1911 easy enough to grab and clear to hand off to leo later, I go for it and the ems offices stands there and says"no let me I went to Viet Nam I an expert" Went to grab the gun and it goes off! Bullet went right between my partner and I. Great shot! He got fired that afternoon. 22 years in the fire service 3 to go til retirement......too bad he had to be the big weapons handeler and did not notice the safety was not on safe.

The department I work for now has the policey of disarm asap so patient care can be rendered safely. If said patient does not comply then we back out/off until LEO shows up. If they do surender the fire arm to us we clear it and hand over to LEO. Some guys do not feel safe with handeling guns they just take it as is and place it away from the patient until LEO arives. Its only hapened twice in the last 5 years though.

Phil DeGraves
June 9, 2008, 02:09 PM
I went to the emergency room last year, informed the technician; he called security, secured it until I was ready to leave. No big deal.

redneckrepairs
June 9, 2008, 02:15 PM
Most likely thing is one way or another local LE responsible for the scene will wind up with the gun and you can reclaim it from them . The EMT involved just wants the dammed thing gone so he is not responsible for it , about the same as your wallet , they will never hand a cop your license but they will your entire wallet , Its just a thing to get rid of so you can concentrate on the patent , not safeguarding his valuables lol

Coronach
June 9, 2008, 02:23 PM
The gun will be turned over to the local LE as either evidence (if you were involved in a crime, either as victim or suspect) or safekeeping. In the latter case they should issue you a receipt for it (request one if you are able and they do not), and you just go down to the property room and sign it out. In the former case it is more complicated, but once they determine it is not needed as evidence, the officer/DA/detective should have it released to its owner.

Mike

MillCreek
June 9, 2008, 02:28 PM
We have talked about this before and a search will find the threads. Back when I was working the paramedic van, I would remove the weapon from the patient, clear and unload it, drop the weapon and ammo into a biohazard bag, tie it off and then hand it to hospital security or the police as the case may be. I noted on my trip sheet the make, serial number and round count and that it was given to the hospital staff. The biohazard bag makes people pay attention so to minimize the chance that it is carelessly discarded.

I have seen a lot of different approaches on this by department, and some of those approaches are articulated in this thread.

siglite
June 9, 2008, 02:44 PM
Hmm. Well, I suppose that's good to hear. I mean, it seems like the consensus is that if it's not a criminal thing, the EMTs will disarm you (I have no problem with that, BTW) and shuffle the thing off to LEOs. I'm fine with that too. I don't live in gun-grabber-land as far as LEOs go, so I'm pretty confident I'd get it back with no trouble.

When I crashed last year, I peeled my leathers down as far as I could (my shoulder was in agony) while talking to the LEO on scene. I didn't even realize my P220 was uncovered until he glanced down at it.

"I have a permit for that."

"pft. I don't care."

Not another word was said. Cool LEO. But it was actually a factor in my answer when he asked if I wanted transport. I didn't know how EMTs and such would handle that P220 being there, and I didn't want to just say to this LEO, "hey, mind watching my .45 for me while I'm off getting poked, prodded and xrayed?"

He probably would've been fine with that, but I'm kinda ... eh... I just like having control of my own firearms at all times.

Eric F
June 9, 2008, 02:58 PM
I would remove the weapon from the patient, clear and unload it, drop the weapon and ammo into a biohazard bag, tie it off and then hand it to hospital security or the police as the case may beThe biohazard bag makes people pay attention so to minimize the chance that it is carelessly discarded.

As the unwiting hospital staff tosses your gun into the biohazard bin thinking it was some sort of contaminated stuff.....................

El Tejon
June 9, 2008, 03:05 PM
September 1995 the Friday before Labor Day, I was coming back to my brother's apartment from work downtown Indy and was looking forward to a cook out and then a weekend shootingfest at my aunt's place.

Driving down the street in my Buick Road Monster (I was 25 but found a good deal on it), I was t-boned by a pick up truck that attempted to crush my driver's side door. I woke up hanging from from safety belt in the passenger seat (the collison knocked me from the driver's seat into the passenger seat).

The deputy Sheriff who responded grabbed my Glock 23 and mags and my knife. Fortunately my father was close and came to the scene (I cannot remember if I called or the cops did) and retrieved my property.

Wierd thing is that no one asked for my carry license. Of course, I got wacked pretty hard and was too busy looking at the birds and stars around my head, so the cops could have gone through my wallet for all I know.

packnrat
June 9, 2008, 03:26 PM
short answer...do not get hit while riding a bike.

said while rubbing my left leg..it is stil working good, and still on me.:):D


:uhoh:


.dec 31 1980 8:15 am. overcast and dry. very cold. road clear no problems with vision.

Rangermedic
June 9, 2008, 03:37 PM
At present the pistol is made safe then placed into a lock box seprare from the ammo [and out of the pt. treatment area] the make, model, & serial # are noted on the chart. At the Hosp. they are both turned over to a LEO who signs for them. also when your property is inventoried any ID or CHL is noted.

hotpig
June 9, 2008, 03:38 PM
I'm in Illinois so weapons at a scene are almost non existent. If they are off of their property with a gun they are either a cop or a crook.

Either way I'm taking charge of their gun until other LE arrive. With cops I hold their guns until a officer from their agency arrives. I would only turn it over to another agency if I had to leave the scene or they are from out of the immediate area.

blackcash88
June 9, 2008, 03:49 PM
Heck, in this CT sh^thole, it probably would be confiscated and you'd need a lawyer to get it back. If it wasn't destroyed first...or ended up in some corrupt statie's collection... :rolleyes:

T J
June 9, 2008, 04:24 PM
We had been out in the desert for a long weekend of camping and shooting. On the way back into town we flipped the jeep we were in, scattering the contents including numerous rifles and pistols all over the place. I got a ride in an ambulance, and my friend who was driving got one in a helicopter. Later that night back in town at the friends house, a deputy hand delivered all the guns and handed them over very politely and with no hassle. I was pleasantly surprised by this gesture. One rifle had the stock broken in two. I had a bunch of bruses and stitches, my friend didn't make it. Bad ending to a terrific weekend.

siglite
June 9, 2008, 05:03 PM
wow. Sorry about your friend TJ. :(

pyle
June 9, 2008, 05:08 PM
That makes me wonder what would happen if you were in an accident where you were knocked out cold and maybe your handgun was thrown well away from you. How would the EMT or police know you ever had a gun? Suppose they didn't find it - and some 10 year old kid comes walking down the street a few days later and finds it - then goes and shoots someone with it? Wonder if the gun would get traced back to you and get you into trouble? Just a thought....

Bazooka Joe71
June 9, 2008, 05:22 PM
Be careful...
A few years ago, I read a news report of a small town, Indiana County PA, medical examiner/coroner that was caught stealing items from dead bodies/death scenes, . I have spoken to many cops/security guards/EMTs/firefighters that have seen incidents like the post...

If you're dead, what is there to be careful about?:confused:

blackcash88
June 9, 2008, 05:31 PM
Oh, come on Bazooka. By your logic, who cares the government seizes all your assets, right? After all, you're dead...heirs be damned. :rolleyes:

It's still private property and if the actual owner can no longer use it, it should go to next of kin and not some officer's private collection, seized by the authorities, etc.

Thernlund
June 9, 2008, 05:39 PM
This reminds me of a buddy of mine. He got into a bad bike wreck. The kind where he SHOULD be dead. He got hit by a semi. Ouch.

So after him and his former bike, now twisted metal, come to a stop, he stands up, walks briskly to the driver of the semi, and rattles off his name and a name and phone number to call. He asks the driver if he got it, then repeats it for good measure. Then he passes out.

He later said that right after the accident he knew he was in bad shape and that he had to tell someone who to call ASAP before he went into shock.

So he wakes up from a coma in the hospital four days later. Broke about half his bones. Spent a year in therapy. Ooof.


-T.

MillCreek
June 9, 2008, 05:49 PM
I would remove the weapon from the patient, clear and unload it, drop the weapon and ammo into a biohazard bag, tie it off and then hand it to hospital security or the police as the case may be
Quote:
The biohazard bag makes people pay attention so to minimize the chance that it is carelessly discarded.
As the unwiting hospital staff tosses your gun into the biohazard bin thinking it was some sort of contaminated stuff.....................

That's why I always carefully handed off the opaque red biohazard bag to security/LE and verbally informed them there was an unloaded handgun within. I found that using a clear plastic bag seemed to freak out too many people when they saw the firearm inside.

What did you find that worked well?

Treo
June 9, 2008, 05:49 PM
When I worked at Evans Hospital all valueables were taken by the pnt. admin rep inventoried and locked in a safe in the admissions office. Never had to deal W/ a gun but I expect that's where it would go as well.

ETA As an EMT at the scene (assuming lawfully carried weapon not evidence ) in your home I'd give it to a familiy member. in the ambulance ( I agree the biohazard bag isn't a great idea) it would go into a bag marked PNT. PROPERTY and get handed to the admissions people at the E.R. eitherway not my problem.

I went and dug up my old textbook from EMT school The Basic EMT And it makes no mention of pnt. property disposition.

Eric F
June 9, 2008, 05:53 PM
That's why I always carefully handed off the opaque red biohazard bag to security/LE and verbally informed them there was an unloaded handgun within. I found that using a clear plastic bag seemed to freak out too many people when they saw the firearm inside.

What did you find that worked well?

I tossed that in for humor, any way we do not transport guns. It goes to an on sceen LEO when they arive, its good to work in an LEO enriched area for this purpose.

divemedic
June 9, 2008, 05:57 PM
Checking in here-
Some background: I have worked as a professional firefighter or paramedic since 1989 (even though a few years of that was as a volunteer). I also work as an instructor, so I have contact with quite a few systems. I can tell you: it depends not only on how you are acting, but on the system in your locality, and on who responds.

Generally, if you are knocked out, the weapon will be turned over to law enforcement. (We even do so for LEOs) There are exceptions.

Example:

I responded a few years ago to a motorcycle accident. The patient told us that in the compartment under the seat of the bike, he had a pistol. I went to turn it over to the cops, but they told me that the Sheriff was an anti, and would delay returning it as long as possible, as long as a year. For that reason, the cops did not want to touch it.

So, I unloaded it, and placed it in the patient's gym bag and put it in the cab of the ambulance. We gave it back to him when we got to the hospital, along with a warning not to let the hospital staff know he had it, or else they would turn it over to the cops, and he might not ever see it again.

I could have lost my job for that, but right is right.

siglite
June 9, 2008, 06:47 PM
good on you divemedic.

doc2rn
June 9, 2008, 08:15 PM
The worst case of spaghetti I saw was motorcycle vs. 1ton delivery truck. Guy pulled on us, then started seizing, I was so scared it was going to go off. When he passed out, I put it behind my back as he was an urgent. You should have seen the look on the OODs face when he said is that a pistol in your back or are you just happy to see me.
I went outside and cleared the weapon with him watching and turned it over to the base provost marshal.
Guy came by to apologise to another crew a few days later.
Situation dictates the response.

Rock_Steady
June 9, 2008, 10:25 PM
I think I have replied in a thread like this before. Had a guy come in recently after an MVC - didn't look too bad, but he keeps shifting around on the backboard with a grimace on his face. I spotted his the straps from his IWB holster and asked him if I could make him more comfortable without the 2 lbs of steel - had to logroll him so I could get it out, the got to see the blood drain out of the face of 4 of the residents from pakistan - good times. I cleared it and maintained it until security showed up and made them put it in the safe WITH ME - never trust the security staff, too many things get lost..

coloradokevin
June 9, 2008, 10:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assuming you're hurt. Car crash, motorcycle crash, struck by lighting, whatever, and you're transported. What do the EMTs do with your sidearm when they find it?

Around here the police would have been dispatched on the call due to the injury accident.

If the driver was truly incapacitated (ie: going to hospital by ambulance) then the paramedics would give us the weapon... We would probably clear the weapon and the driver (we always clear the drivers in accidents). Once we determined that everything was clear, we'd take the weapon to our property bureau and place it in as "personal property". We'd then give an explanation card to the subject of the accident, which explains where/when/how to respond to retrieve their property.

Around here it isn't any big deal. Obviously if we were talking about a prior felon it would be a problem, but it wouldn't cause any issues for Joe-blow citizen, and the weapon would be returned promptly.

This isn't necessarily unique to firearms either... Say, for instance, that the vehicle involved had some high-dollar electronics inside. Since the driver is incapacitated and leaving the scene by ambulance, we tow the vehicle to our yard for safe keeping until the driver is released from the hospital. We don't leave any high dollar items in these vehicles, and as a matter of policy would place such items into the property bureau as "personal property" (things like: Laptop computers, expensive tools, etc).

blkbrd666
June 9, 2008, 10:44 PM
I totalled a 2 seat sports car(not much passenger compartment) and told the LEO's there was a nickel Colt .45 in the car. They searched repeatedly and never found it. My dad found it a week later at the junk yard underneath the passenger floormat. It had started out in its permanent holstered position between the passenger seat and center console right next to the gear shifter and emergency brake. I always keep one holstered there...never know when you'll get a chance to make a car jacker's day................shorter.

docwatson
June 10, 2008, 08:05 AM
We used to give it to the police and got a hand receipt for it that went with the patient's belongings.

mp510
June 10, 2008, 11:30 AM
I went and dug up my old textbook from EMT school The Basic EMT And it makes no mention of pnt. property disposition.
I checked my brother's EMT training book, and it advises them to not touch the person until LE secures the weapon. It does not differentiate between civilian CCW'er, cop, or bad guy- and devotes about a sentence to the issue.

Jim DiGriz
June 10, 2008, 12:59 PM
I've worked in a number of ER's, no problems with your weapon. Most of them have gun-free zone signs on the doors, but I have never seen a patient legally carrying have a problem. We understand you didn't plan to see us today:)

Two of the ER's I worked at in the past actually had gun lockers where we secure the weapon and issue the patient the key. (these were outside the padded rooms and enable PD to securely disarm before wrestling with a violent mental patient but did double-duty serving legal permit-holders) With my current employer the weapon is unloaded and placed in a self-sealing plastic envelope (same place wallets, jewelry,etc goes) and we put it in the safe, giving the patient a receipt (or put the receipt on the chart if patient can't communicate)

We usually don't get long guns as the medics of course leave those at the scene for PD to secure.

paramedic70002
June 10, 2008, 01:08 PM
Nothing standard about dealing with weapons.

I recently submitted an article to a national EMS magazine on this particular issue, still waiting to see if it gets published.

Nebraska put a provision in their CCW laws last year that permittees are required to surrender their weapon to EMS when submitting themselves for care. I know their state office of EMS was working up a training program but not sure how it all turned out.,

RichardInFlorida
June 10, 2008, 01:45 PM
The way we handle it in my area is the officer on scene will secure the weapon(s) if there are not any competent relatives/friends the owner wishes to hand the items off to. The idea is someone being transported for injuries is likely to not make rational decisions due to pain and/or pain medications.

After clearing up the accident, we'll head down to the hospital and hopefully a friend/family member is there to take custody of the gun(s). If not, most of the hospitals I deal with have lockboxes that security can use to store their weapons until they are ready to be released.

Other areas of the country may not be so easy to work with for gun owners, but that's why I don't live there.

Byron Quick
June 10, 2008, 01:47 PM
EMS needs to be trained in clearing and unloading weapons if they're going to be taking possession.

During traffic stops, I've had the police 'clear' weapons or at least attempt to do so. They often didn't know how to clear an unfamiliar weapon. They also swept me with the muzzle every single time but the last time,Sept. 4, 2007.

jpsimms
June 10, 2008, 02:04 PM
When I got in a head on 3 weeks ago my fiancee and I had 4 guns with us. She was in pretty bad shape, and so was my brother, but I was up and moving ( didn't know I was hurt).
I called 911 and told the dispatcher there were guns in the car, along with all the other info. when cops and emts got there I had already called my dad, who was on his way, and told the first cop I saw that I didn't want to lose my guns to an evidence locker, he said "don't blame you"
So my dad took them home while we all went to the hospital.
Later I found out that m buddy, who is the captain of fire/rescue was on scene and would have handled it also.

MillCreek
June 10, 2008, 02:55 PM
I do know that a lot of EMS agencies, for liability reasons, will not allow their staff to handle any firearms. LE is to be called as necessary.

FLoppyTOE
June 10, 2008, 04:00 PM
At least in Florida, LE responds to every accident. They would be there to recover the firearm. Even if LE is slow to respond FF's often remain on scene even after the patient is gone, and they can transfer the firearm. I have had this happen only once, and it was off-duty LE, and he took it with him. However, I have handed over alot of other property to LE when a patient is rapidly transported.

divemedic
June 10, 2008, 06:19 PM
I am working today. We left an accident scene this afternoon, after one victim was transferred. FHP was enroute, with no ETA. We don't wait. sometimes it takes hours.

We don't have a WRITTEN policy, but our chiefs are political appointees from up north. They are pretty anti, and would want us to have the deputies take possession. Since our sheriff is pretty anti as well, you will probably never see them again. For that reason, most cops and firefighters on the street adopt a "ask me no questions and I will tell you no lies" policy, unless you are being a jerk, in which case I am not risking my job for you.

SMLE
June 10, 2008, 07:04 PM
Around here, if it's an MVA, LE is on scene. So far I have had only one patient who was armed. Fellow who tried to drive his Harley and sidecar the long way through a Chevy pick up. He had an Az. CHL. The Valencia County Deputy on scene took charge of the gun and made sure the Pt knew where it was. I later took the same fellow on an inter-facility transport from re-hab to an Ortho follow up and he told me he had no problem getting his gun back.

While going through EMT Basic and Intermediate class, I have had the opportunity to do some education on the facts about CCW and who really owns and carries guns and that finding one on a patient is not something to get freaked about. All the EMTs and Medics I work with seem to be pro-gun, several are VERY into guns and shooting sports. So we tend to be "Oooh, nice grips!" rather than "OMG! HE"S GOT A FREAKING GUN!" I once got into a great gun BS session with a Patient in his home after we'd checked the guy out and decided he didn't need a ride toe the hospital. He had a #4 Lee Enfield on the wall above the chair he was sitting in. You should be able to guess by my user name how THAT conversation started. :cool:

FLoppyTOE
June 11, 2008, 12:09 AM
I am working today. We left an accident scene this afternoon, after one victim was transferred. FHP was enroute, with no ETA. We don't wait. sometimes it takes hours.

Thats FHP for you, but couldn't you call for SO or PD?

siglite
June 11, 2008, 12:42 AM
He had a #4 Lee Enfield on the wall above the chair he was sitting in. You should be able to guess by my user name how THAT conversation started.

I'm guessing three words. "Nice number four!"

divemedic
June 11, 2008, 09:46 AM
Thats FHP for you, but couldn't you call for SO or PD?

SO won't work any MVC that has injuries

tulsamal
August 1, 2008, 11:30 AM
Reading a thread like this every now and then is good for me.

It reminds me why I never took up riding motorcycles!!!

Gregg

plainsbilly
August 1, 2008, 01:05 PM
I just wrecked the wifes truck after a day of shooting (8 days ago):uhoh: no major injuries but the arriving officers had to help me find the pistol bag which ended up 2 carlengths away and on the other side of the road. I asked the deputy what would have happened had we been uncouncious he said pistols probly wouldnt have been found:eek: and all other weapons would have been recieved into the evidence locker at the station for safe keeping

Rich K
August 1, 2008, 02:23 PM
Where I work, PD is always on scene, along with fire. A gun goes with the officer, and the patient gets it back from the police dept.

ilbob
August 1, 2008, 02:33 PM
I checked my brother's EMT training book, and it advises them to not touch the person until LE secures the weapon. They really expect an EMT to let a guy bleed to death because a cop has not yet shown up?

blackcash88
August 1, 2008, 02:38 PM
I find that hard to believe. All they need to do is not mess with the firearm, or, better yet, they need training to learn to deal with a firearm themselves, though. There are cases where the patient it critiical and they would need to cut their clothes off, place them on a back board, etc. LE may be too late if they do nothing when they encounter a firearm.

RobG5538
August 1, 2008, 02:55 PM
Never in 16 years have I had to deal with the issue. Ya think its because I am in California:D

divemedic
August 1, 2008, 03:33 PM
They really expect an EMT to let a guy bleed to death because a cop has not yet shown up?

In short, yes. Anytime we get a call that sounds like it may be violent, we park (stage) several blocks away and wait for LEOs. Shootings, suicide attempts, batteries, stabbings, and anything else that sounds suspicious. It is not wise to use ambulances and fire trucks to transport more victims to the scene, as you are not helping anyone if you are shot as well.

If we arrive at an otherwise routine call and there is no one being violent, the mere presence of a firearm is not cause for concern. If after we arrive on scene, the scene gets violent, we will either subdue the person ourselves, or evacuate and wait for the cops. Which option we take depends on the situation.

I know this sounds cold, but whatever happened to cause people to get injured isn't my fault, and I am not going to needlessly get injured. The whole of our job is about managing risk to do a job, not taking reckless chances.

ilbob
August 2, 2008, 12:48 PM
They really expect an EMT to let a guy bleed to death because a cop has not yet shown up?

In short, yes. Anytime we get a call that sounds like it may be violent, we park (stage) several blocks away and wait for LEOs. Shootings, suicide attempts, batteries, stabbings, and anything else that sounds suspicious. It is not wise to use ambulances and fire trucks to transport more victims to the scene, as you are not helping anyone if you are shot as well. It is never a good idea to make a bad situation worse, but the book quote did not say anything about a violent situation, just the mere presence of a gun.

I would not expect firemen to take risks they are not trained to deal with, but the mere presence of an inanimate object does not seem like much of a risk, and I am surprised a text book would be so afraid of it. What does the book say about pocket knives and baseball bats?

divemedic
August 2, 2008, 08:12 PM
I do not say this to brag, but to establish bonafides:

This year is my 20th on the job, I am a fire and EMS instructor. I have been doing this awhile. When we have students, we teach them the same thing:

Scene safety. In fact, when we do training scenarios, if the first words out of their mouths when the scenario begins are not "Scene safety" they receive an automatic fail for the exercise.

Fire and EMS are not trained to deal with weapons, criminals, or any of the other things LEOs deal with. So we train them not to even try. That doesn't mean that those of us who ARE familiar with weapons never bend the rules to help a gunny out, but the standard line is that we do not mess with weapons. Imagine a person who has never handled a weapon trying to unload one. That is how accidents happen.

We are talking about dealing with the most dangerous creature on the planet (people) at a time when they are injured, intoxicated, keyed up, angry that they just got in a car accident, and/or afraid of going to jail. Humans are unpredictable in the best of times, much less when injured and under stress. Nothing personal, because even cops are disarmed when seriously injured. I have seen cops with head injuries trying to draw a weapon to defend themselves. It is called "fight or flight"

Like we also tell students: "That is the book answer, now this is what really happens on the street."

SMLE
August 3, 2008, 03:29 PM
I have never had an issue on a scene. When I was in EMT-I class, we had a LEO give a scene safety lecture. I made a point of speaking up and pointing out that NM has approx. 7K CHLs issued and that there are a lot of people that legally carry. The nice old shop keeper you're assessing for chest pain may be LEGALLY packing a piece and that you ALWAYS need to use YOUR BRAIN in any situation.

Now here is an example of an EMS call that turned sour: http://www.koat.com/news/17045584/detail.html
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- A man is listed in critical condition and three officers are on leave after a police-involved shooting in northeast Albuquerque Wednesday.

The shooting happened on Mesa Arriba at about 7 p.m.

Investigators said it started with a call from the man's home to the fire department complaining of chest pains.
Click here to find out more!

Once there, officials said the man told emergency crews he had a gun. The crews left the scene and notified police...

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