9mm okay in .357/.38?


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Brass Rain
June 12, 2008, 02:15 AM
With moon clips, I mean. I think I've heard it somewhere that you can fire 9mm in a .357 or .38 revolver. The diameter is the same, isn't it?

EDIT: I don't really intend or desire to do this, I'm just curious.

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texas bulldog
June 12, 2008, 02:25 AM
not quite. .355 diameter versus .357. there are wheelguns made specifically for 9mm, and i understand there may be some guns that can fire either when using moonclips for the 9mm. however, there would also be a dropoff in accuracy with the 9mm due to the smaller diameter not quite matching the bore.

someone much more knowledgeable than me on this topic will be along shortly, i'm sure.

Brass Rain
June 12, 2008, 02:31 AM
Okay, thanks bulldog. I looked at a 9mm next to a .38 and they appear extremely similar.

.38 S&W is okay though, right?

machinisttx
June 12, 2008, 02:40 AM
.38 S&W uses a .360" diameter bullet rather than the .357-.358" of the .38 Special and .357 Magnum. Some guns will chamber it and others won't. I'm pretty sure the pressure is so low that it wouldn't hurt anything, but accuracy would probably be non existent. .38 S&W ammo is about $30 or so a box--or was the last time I looked.

CWL
June 12, 2008, 03:01 AM
ONLY use the type of ammunition that is on the side of the firearm. This is not a merely a suggestion.

NEVER go by "I think I've heard it somewhere" when choosing ammunition.

texas bulldog
June 12, 2008, 03:34 AM
to amend my earlier statement, a gun that could fire either 9mm or .38 special would actually probably use a replacement cylinder ala the .45LC/.45ACP revolvers such as the ruger blackhawk. but again, i'm no expert on this. i know both S&W and ruger have made dedicated 9mm revolvers, but that's not really what you're asking.

then, of course, there is the medusa (http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Revolvers/Medusa_Model_47.htm), which can fire .38sp, .357mag, .380acp, or 9mm without using moonclips or replacement cylinders. good luck finding one, and good luck affording it even if you do find one. sure would be nice from an ammo versatility standpoint though.

and CWL's advice above is good, i'm just speaking hypothetically.

bikerdoc
June 12, 2008, 07:23 AM
not a good idea

DaleCooper51
June 12, 2008, 07:30 AM
If you really want to shoot 9mm in your 357 revolver, Pinnacle gunsmithing does a multi-caliber cylinder conversion.

http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/revolver.asp

Janitor
June 12, 2008, 07:36 AM
to amend my earlier statement, a gun that could fire either 9mm or .38 special would actually probably use a replacement cylinder ala the .45LC/.45ACP revolvers such as the ruger blackhawk.
The Blackhawk convertible is (was?) available in 9mm/.357.

doc2rn
June 12, 2008, 07:37 AM
You can shoot 9mm out of a .357 with the use of moon clips to center the round in the chambers.
Be sure to scrub really good as the residue from smaller cartidges can can impede you from returning to full size cartridges.

ashtxsniper
June 12, 2008, 08:14 AM
There will not be a noticeable accuracy difference between the two bullet sizes. 9mm bullets are usually .355 but 357/38 bullets are usually .356 I have loaded 9mm with 357/38 bullets and 357 with 9mm bullets. There is no accuracy difference and you don't lose any velocity over the difference.

Gunsby_Blazen
June 12, 2008, 08:23 AM
Its a good rule to follow,
only use the intended ammo for a particular firearm.
If you want to shoot 9mm in a revolver, get a revolver dedicated to 9mm ammunition.

DWFan
June 12, 2008, 08:28 AM
There is more than just the bullet diameter that is different between the two. The 9mm is a tapered wall case with a diameter of approx .391" just above the rim; the .38/.357 is a straight-wall case with a diameter of .379". If a 9mm cartridge fits in your .38/.357, your chambers are seriously oversize. Full moon clips aren't meant to center a rimless cartridge in a chamber, they are used to provide something for the revolver extractor star to push against to remove the case from the cylinder.

JShirley
June 12, 2008, 08:29 AM
I have a Blackhawk 9mm/.357 convertible. Works well. I wouldn't suggest trying to shoot 9x19mm in a .357 without a dedicated cylinder.

J

leadcounsel
June 12, 2008, 08:32 AM
Do you want to risk losing your hand or damaging your firearm because you tried shooting the wrong ammo?

Just shoot what the weapons is designed for.

RyanM
June 12, 2008, 08:38 AM
9mm SAAMI specs are a maximum chamber pressure of 35,000 PSI.

.357 magnum is also 35,000 PSI.

.38 SPL is 18,000 PSI.

Although 9mm would most likely fire in a .38 or .357 revolver, the results probably wouldn't be pretty in a .38. In a .357, you could expect accuracy to be non-existant, with the distance the bullet has to travel to the choke at the front of the chamber.

Steve C
June 12, 2008, 12:20 PM
A 9mm will not chamber in a standard .38spl or a .357 mag. If you think it will you obviously have never tried it. The case of the 9mm is tapered from an outside base diameter of .391" to a neck diameter of .380". A .38 spl is a straight wall case with an outside diameter of .379" and the chambers for .38/357's are only slightly larger. A 9mm will only fit about 1/2 the case into a chamber leaving too much case outside to ever close the cylinder.

trekgod3
June 12, 2008, 12:56 PM
Just whipped out my old arminius .38/.357 and it will NOT chamber a 9mm. Goes only about 1/2 way in.

rcmodel
June 12, 2008, 01:07 PM
A 9mm will not chamber in a standard .38spl or a .357 mag. If you think it will you obviously have never tried it.+1

I wondered when all the folks offering bad advice were going to get around to trying to put one in a .38/.357 chamber!

rcmodel

Brass Rain
June 12, 2008, 08:44 PM
I'm not saying I intended to use 9mm in a .357 or .38, I just htought it was possible and wanted to know for sure or not. Apparently not. What about .45 ACP in a gun chambered for .45 LC?

Jim Watson
June 12, 2008, 09:01 PM
Read the Pinnacle Arms material.

You can have your .357 ALTERED to shoot 9mm, you can have your .45 Colt (.454 Casull, .460 S&W) ALTERED to shoot .45 ACP. They will still shoot the original cartridge, although not well in the case of the .357 reamed for 9mm.

You can't just stick the wrong round in the cylinder and blast away.

RyanM
June 12, 2008, 09:12 PM
I know I saw someone at the range attempting to shoot short little auto rounds out of a .38 once, and they would just fly to the front of the cylinder instead of going off when the firing pin hit them.

I thought they were 9mm, but maybe they were .380 ACP or something?

GP100man
June 12, 2008, 11:28 PM
too much cheap brass about to fool with gettin hurt!!!
even if you do get one in a loose chamber , or one of different caliber why risk limb & life ???????
35,000 psi will find the tinyest crack & fast!!!!!
not to mention possible damage to your firearm!!!

GP100man

zxcvbob
June 12, 2008, 11:58 PM
Hypothetically (of course) you could resize your 9mm ammo with a .38 Special sizing die (or Lee factory crimp die) and it would fit in the chambers of a .357 or a strong .38 Special. But then there's nothing to headspace the cartridges. They might bind at the back enough to hold them in place enough to fire, I dunno. But it would not be very precise or reliable. I'm not sure what would then happen when the bullet hit the leading edge of the chamber throats, but you could theoretically get those reamed out to a long taper to prevent problems. Your .357 and .38's would probably like that modification anyway.

If you reamed out the cylinder to accept an unmodified 9mm cartridge, you still have the problem with headspacing. And it would probably ruin your .38 Special and .357 Mag brass when it fire-formed to the opened up chamber.

Old Griz
June 13, 2008, 02:11 AM
If you want to shoot both, I suggest you get a Ruger .357/9mm Convertible. I have two, one in each barrel length, and they are really a lot of fun. Most accurate in .357/.38, but you can pop in the 9mm cylinder and shoot the cheap Wolf stuff. It's not as accurate, but pretty darn close. The jacketed 9mm bullets shoot the best. No moon clips needed.

Like everyone else has said, shoot what you gun was intended to shoot.

JShirley
June 13, 2008, 12:49 PM
Yup.

'Course, I've also fired .32 ACP cartridges in .32 Magnum Single-Six. A little pop, and just enough recoil to let you know you were firing. :D

John

bflobill_69
June 13, 2008, 12:56 PM
Not that I want to, but it was my understanding that I COULD fire 9mm out of my S&W 19-3 if I were to get some moon clips for it.

I was also told there would be "less accuracy" firing 9mm out of a .357, so I have never bothered to pick up moon clips for said gun.

Is there a safety issue?

Just curious,

Bflobill_69

Tribal
June 13, 2008, 01:34 PM
9mm SAAMI specs are a maximum chamber pressure of 35,000 PSI.

.357 magnum is also 35,000 PSI.

Please forgive what may be an off-topic and dumb question, but if the two rounds have virtually the same size bullet and the same pressure, why is 9mm considered not to be a major caliber while .357 is thought of as a serious manstopper?

Jim Watson
June 13, 2008, 01:39 PM
Well, unless you can stick the gun barrel up his nose where he can get the full benefit of the pressure, a .357 Magnum will drive a heavier bullet at any given velocity (or a lighter bullet faster) for greater bullet momentum and energy. It is not just the chamber pressure, but the volume of gas at that pressure that counts. Among many other things.

Old Griz
June 13, 2008, 02:24 PM
bflobill_69;

Problem #1: A 9mm cartridge will not fit in a .357 cylinder (your Model 19 for example). The bullets may be almost the same size, but the cartridge isn't. The 9mm is tapered, so it will start to enter the cylinder but it will not go in all the way. It will stop with about 1/4" of it sticking out. Therefore, you cannot close the cylinder.

Problem #2: I could be wrong on this one, some shooters more experienced with moon clips might help, but unless your cylinder has been designed to use moon clips, the clip and the rear of the cartridge would again take up too much room, and you would not be able to close your cylinder. BUT, since the 9mm cartridge will not fit anyway (Problem #1), it's a moot point.

Janitor
June 13, 2008, 02:59 PM
Problem #2: I could be wrong on this one, some shooters more experienced with moon clips might help, but unless your cylinder has been designed to use moon clips, the clip and the rear of the cartridge would again take up too much room, and you would not be able to close your cylinder. BUT, since the 9mm cartridge will not fit anyway (Problem #1), it's a moot point.

- Well ... while I suppose you could be wrong, you're not. There isn't enough room at the head end of the cylinder to fit a moon clip in, unless it's designed/modified for it. Not nearly enough head space in a stock setup. Here, you can see how far the boolits stick out with the clip in there.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i61/rsamos/armory/notso_auto.jpg

Old Griz
June 13, 2008, 03:16 PM
Wow, Great illustration. Thanks.

buttrap
June 13, 2008, 05:00 PM
9mm is a perfect fit in a .38 Smith and Wesson AKA .380MkII round chambered gun. I have done that with light .38 loads in the 9mm case and with .360 lead slugs and it works just fine out of the extraction issue. But factory 9mm loads in a .38, no way in heck would I try that as its a good way to wreck a gun and your hand both.

rgs1975
June 13, 2008, 05:35 PM
Most versatile revolver is one chambered for the new .327 Magnum. You can safely and accurately fire .327 Magnum, .32 H&R Magnum, .32 S&W Long and .32 S&W (short) out of the one gun.

zxcvbob
June 14, 2008, 04:03 PM
I tried resizing a 9mm case using a .38 Special die. The case dropped right in a .357 magnum chamber, but it stopped with about 1/8" too much of the case head sticking out to close the cylinder.

bflobill_69
June 20, 2008, 07:56 PM
I love this forum - TY all for the enlightening information!

Bflobill_69

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