Anyone have experience with the Scout Rifle concept?


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jame
August 23, 2003, 02:16 AM
I'm in the process of building a Scout Rifle out of a Yugo M48 Mauser, and I would love to hear about successes and failures.

I'm taking my time and doing it right. I'm not going to "bubba up" a rifle.
Here's what I have so far: An excellent but unmatched M48 that appears to be arsenal refinished and import marked, a Boyd's Ria Sportsman stock (on backorder), a Leupold M8 2X pistol scope that I scored on ebay for $135.
Future additions are: Timney trigger, Harris bipod, barrell cut and crown to 19 or 20", and a leaf type replacement for the ladder sight as a mount for the scope.
Any opinions out there???

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goon
August 23, 2003, 02:21 AM
They do work.
I have a Savage Scout that has earned a place as my official deer rifle. I can't say that it is any better or worse than a regular style rifle, but it is as good for what I need it for.
BTW- Are you going to make scout weight with a nearly full sized Mauser action?

jame
August 23, 2003, 03:03 AM
I have my doubts about making weight, but I guess I'll have to see what I have to work with after I have the main components together. Th M48 is a "medium" action, so that may help a little. Composite stocks aren't available for this model yet, so I might trim the stock down as well.

This is my first big project, so I guess my hopes are high.

Preacherman
August 23, 2003, 04:54 AM
Do a search on "scout rifle" here and on TFL and you'll find lots of references.

I have a Steyr Scout and a Savage Scout, both in .308 and glassed with the Leupold 2.5x Scout Scope. I'm very happy with them - so much so that I've sold all of my general-purpose bolt guns and standardized on these two. They do everything I could ask of them, and do it pretty well. I'd only get another bolt gun for long-range work (over 300 yards), varmint work (small caliber) or large and/or dangerous game (e.g. brown bear, perhaps moose).

swampsniper
August 23, 2003, 06:56 AM
My M-38 Swede is set up with a 2.5 LERscope on see thru mounts and a Williams peep on the action. Otherwise stock condition. I love it. I have a mount on order for my 94 Winchester. On the Mauser, DO NOT waste time with a BSquare mount.:D

Okiecruffler
August 23, 2003, 02:48 PM
A b-square mount by the way. I still prefer the scout mount to the conventinal mount. Put mine back to original because it looks better that way, but if I were to take up hunting again it would be my choice for deer. I had a TC 4X scope on mine that self destructed one day, then put a 4X NcStar on it that worked just fine until I put everything back to normal. I never had any problem with the B-Square mount, or with the one on my M44, but maybe I just got lucky.

Jaeger
August 23, 2003, 06:24 PM
I built mine off of an Enfield and I love it. I have hunted with it for several years and it has accounted for several deer. It is an excellant rifle for mixed terrain and cover.

http://hunt101.com/img/055063.JPG

JShirley
August 23, 2003, 07:18 PM
My failure: I had a gunsmith build me a pseudo scout (I called it my "Cub Scout") in 6mm. After extremely long delays, rifle was received...with wrong LOP, wrong safety, and with the superwonderscout mount buggered up.

It does appear to be very accurate with the iron sights, but I'll probably have to dump another $400 or so into her before I can really wring her out.

John

Skunkabilly
August 24, 2003, 06:39 PM
What weight did Cooper specify for the Scouts?

Chris Rhines
August 24, 2003, 06:46 PM
Per my reading: 3kg, scoped and slung but unloaded.

I'm not sure, but Col. Cooper may have later stated that 3kg was the target weight, with 3.5kg (?) being the max allowable.

- Chris

Skunkabilly
August 24, 2003, 06:55 PM
Is that 6.6 lbs? :confused: In other words are ANY semi-auto rifles not in a pistol caliber true 'scouts'?

jame
August 24, 2003, 09:56 PM
"True" scouts weigh 6.6 to a maximum of 7.7 pounds stocked, sighted, and slung. Given the weight restriction, semi-autos, most mausers, as well as wood stocked rifled are not "true" scouts, but are psuedo scouts. (if I remember correctly)

I rarely find myself in total agreement with the fine Mr. Cooper on a variety of subjects, and this one is no different . While he has developed some wonderful concepts for the shooting genre', his personal choices do not necessarily reflect those of the masses. For example, his obvious preference for the highly overpriced Steyer Scout, and obvious disdain for those that make such an observation leave kind of a bad taste in my mouth.

(Shorter wording: What he thinks should be good for everyone ain't necessarily good for everyone.)

C.R.Sam
August 24, 2003, 11:18 PM
Premier barrel maker, rifle maker and shooter...The late Gale McMillan expressed negative opinions of the Styer Scout. And posted same on TFL.

Sam

Art Eatman
August 25, 2003, 09:49 AM
jame, remember that Cooper's own prototype Scout was based on the old Remington 600 series. He didn't have much choice about the Steyr; that's all there was in a factory production Scout when it first came out. Cooper sez, "Here's my idea," and the only factory to give a hoot was Steyr.

(IMO the Steyr is not only overpriced, it's ugly. :) Regardless of how well it performs, I wouldn't want to be seen with one--which reminds me of some women I've known.)

My biggest problem with a Scout is sorta, "Hey, where'd the scope go?", since I've been shooting with the conventional mounting for so darned long.

:), Art

Gordon
August 25, 2003, 11:56 AM
The problem with scouts I've run into hunting with one since early 80's WAS with sun to rear the scope will glare out if your head doesn't block the sun. It happened to me twice on shots at bucks. I don't hunt with one anymore.:(

John Ross
August 25, 2003, 12:16 PM
I have shot a number of scout rifles, and the owners always explained that the raison d'etre for these guns was fast target acquisition.

One of my favorite shooting pastimes is shooting clays with a rifle. I use a 12 volt thrower (either rabbit set to vertical or a conventional bird thrower with a weak spring) and a suitable location (someplace, like my rock quarry or Knob Creek, with a high backstop.) Getting on target QUICKLY is of paramount importance in this game.

I have never fired any scout rifle I could get on target with or hit with nearly as well as I can with a conventional setup using a 1-4 Leupold scope set on 1X (actually about 1.3X). That forward-mounted scout scope at 2X has a MUCH smaller field of view than a 2X scope in the conventional position, and compared to the conventional position scope set at 1.3X, the difference is huge. Next time you get the chance to compare scopes side-by-side, hold a 2x scout scope at arm's length and a 1-4 Leupold in the conventional position and see for yourself.

Virtually every one of my scoped rifles that isn't a target/varmint rifle wears one of these scopes. The only thing I've used that's as good is one of the big-diameter red dot sights mounted in the conventional position. These have an even bigger FOV, but suffer from the inability to dial up to 4x for longer stationary shots, not worth the tradeoff IMO.

I have a 1-4 Leupold on my K&P-built, carbon fiber stocked, fluted, titanium-braked .50 rifle, weight 16.2 pounds with scope. At Knob Creek a few years ago I hit 5 straight claybirds out of an electric thrower at dusk with this gun in front of 5,000 witnesses, using API ammo. API detonates on clays, and the explosion simultaneously turns the clay to dust, and ignites the dust. The midair fireball is orange instead of white (from the burning pitch) and the bird DISAPPEARS in mid-flight in a fireball, like a David Copperfield magic trick. REALLY cool.

This, I think, is testimony to the effectiveness of 1x scopes in the conventional position.

The scout rifle's only advantage that I can see is being easier to carry in one hand, with no scope at the balance point. I do not consider the ability to use stripper clips a significant benefit.

This may not be what you wanted to hear...

JR, the .500 Specialist

Jaeger
August 25, 2003, 03:29 PM
That certainly sounds like it is worth trying. My 30-06 needs a new scope. Maybe I'll try a 1-4 and see how they compare.

Thanks for the input John.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
August 26, 2003, 05:13 AM
Ok, so what scope mount are y'all having the best luck with? I'm thinking of putting a scout scope on my little Swedish Mauser (M94) that has already had a lot of work done on it. I've been leaning toward either a Ching Ring or a AO (Ashley Outdoors) mount but y'know, B-Square is in Fort Worth, too.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Intune
August 26, 2003, 08:27 AM
I mounted a B&L 2x EER scope on my M38 Swede last night using the B_Square mount that replaces the rear sight. It seems rock solid. Is this the mount you don't care for SwampSniper or is it another model?

Safety_Check
August 27, 2003, 01:49 AM
Carried a Steyr Scout hunting for a couple years. Great rifle. Better shooter than me. Worth the price if you can get it at dealer. Volume dealer would be better. Big bore 376 version is mean to shoot. Maybe Ok for Africa.

444
August 27, 2003, 02:32 AM
I have a scout scope set-up on my Marlin 444. I used the AO lever scout mount. It seems like a nice concept. I haven't really shot it enough to make any real judgements about it. I have never had the opportunity to fire on game with it. The little bit of shooting I did with it was just at 100 yards from a rest. It worked great for that and seems to be more in keeping with the range and application of the lever action rifle.
I had a scout scope mounted on a Finn M39 using a mount made by Darryl on millsurpshooter.com (I think that was the site). I only used the rifle on the range, but it was a nice set up. I liked the mount because it didn't require any permenant modification to the rifle. I have since taken it off. I really only wanted to see what the potential accuracy of the rifle was. I fired some groups one day, then removed it and restored the rifle to issue condition.
The last I heard, Darryl was working on a mount for the K31 Schmit-Ruben which I would really like to try. I believe the rifle itself is capable of really fine accuracy, but I can't shoot iron sights well enough to tell past maybe 50 yards. I have two of those rifles and would probably leave the scope on one. I have several good Leupold pistol scopes lying around unemployed.

Jeff Cooper himself expressed some complaints about the Styer Scout rifle and the Leupold scout scope. It wasn't exactly what he had in mind, but it was as close as he was going to get. He struggled long and hard to get a gun manufacturer to embrace his idea, and in the end, settled for what he got.

Jaeger
August 27, 2003, 06:02 AM
I have an AO mount on both my Enfield and my 1895G. I am very happy with them.

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