[Harry in SC]

Hello all,

It has been a while since I last posted on this website. I am looking for some really good input on a shotgun to buy. Here are my needs:

1.) It will probably be used mostly for shooting clay targets,
2.) I would like to be able to go hunting with it as well (maybe deer but definitely waterfowl...)
3.) I would like it to be automatic (although a smooth action pump would be nice.)
4.) I love Browning products and Remington products. Benelli would be nice but probably a little above my price range (suggestions are certainly welcome.)

I guess what I am looking for is a solid, all-around shotgun. I would really appreciate any feedback any of you are willing to give. Also, tell me what not to buy and stay the h*$& away from. Thanks!

Harry :banghead:

[Browning]

Sounds to me like you're in the market for a Rem 1100 or a Browning Auto 5.

Either one would suit your needs really well.

You don't need to spend $1000+ on a user field or trap and skeet shotgun like you would on a Beretta Xtrema or a Benelli. If you have the money to do so that's one thing, but you don't NEED to spend that much. Since you said that a Benelli's a little too much, I'm gonna guess that you're like the rest of us and that you have champagne taste on a beer budget.

You could find either a used Rem ($350 to $450) or a used Browning (for between $250 to $700/price on them really depends alot on condition and the specific model) pretty easy without too much trouble.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_1100/model_1100_sporting_12.asp

http://www.gundogmag.com/tools_trade/GDshot_1005C.jpg
Remington 1100

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/w5lx/BrowningA-5Light12Closeup.jpg
Browning Auto 5

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/ot53-pix/zs-b4952.jpg
Browning Auto 5

New Browning semi-auto shotguns would cost as much as a Beretta or a Benelli.
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=020B&cat_id=011&type_id=350

Those kind of sound like what you're leaning towards anyway. Both are very reliable, they're both really common, parts are readily available for them both and they're both semi-auto's that are suited towards trap shooting and bird hunting.

Sound like a match made in heaven.

[krimmie]

Depends what you want to spend. As far as autoloaders, I've had Browning, Remington,Beretta and Mossberg shotguns. I have steered away from Remington auto's because of some problems I've had in the past couple years.

For your stated purposes, a 3" gun is all you need, so I'll post some links of the guns "I" like, and have used.

Benelli-too expensive for me, but great gun.

Browning Gold about $1000
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_130_134/products_id/21069

Browning Silver
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_130_134/products_id/17690

Beretta 390(I have this gun now, and love it)
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_65/products_id/25000

Mossberg makes a nice 2 barrel combo
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_336/products_id/43853

I think these are all solid shotguns...I left out the Winchester SX, but it is very similar to the Browning Gold. I threw in the Mossberg because of the great price...I had a 935 3.5" that was stolen, but it was a great gun while I had it. I think it comes down to what feels best to you.

[Snarlingiron]

The current generation of Brownings is very good. Wnchester is essentially the same gun, so it is apparently quite good too.
Nothing wrong with the Remington's either, but I have heard some really bad things about the CT105.
Main thing about Remington is that they really haven't updated anything since 1987 on their automatics.
With all that said, I have always been somewhat resistant to the Berettas. Kind of like "just because everybody and their dog has one doesn't make it all that." However, I picked up a nice used A390 a few weeks ago, on the cheap ($450.00), and I can't make this thing FT anything. Any ammo, any conditions, it just works everytime. I have indeed become a fan. I also like the stock adjustment feature. I was able to make it fit me very well with out spending any addittional money or time at the gunsmith.

[TAB]

Rem 1100.

shoot one, then shoot another auto loader. It will be clear why.

[Snarlingiron]

shoot one, then shoot another auto loader. It will be clear why.

Don't get me wrong, I have a Remington 11-87.
I think the 1100's / 11-87's are great guns. I think they may be a little softer shooting than the Berettas, but only marginally so.
My buddy has 2 1100's. I have a Beretta A390, as I said above, and he has a Beretta AL391 Urika. We shoot all of them at almost every range session. So side by side comparisons won't necessarily yield a preference for the Remington.

My buddy and I both have pretty much switched over to the Berettas and the Remingtons are relegated to "back up" status. Fit is one reason, and the Beretta's complete indifference to ammo is the other.

Great point though. If you could shoot all of the contenders, that would be the best way to make your selection. However, in the real world, that is rarely a doable thing.

Next best thing is what you are doing. Talk to folks. Try what you can. Decide what is most important to you. If you are going to shoot only 2 3/4" loads for clays, then the 1100 will probably be a good choice. If you want to shoot anything from light 2 3/4" to heavy 3" stuff then the Browning, Winchester or Beretta would probably be better.

Just bear in mind that folks get attached to a particular shotgun. They know how to operate it effectively. They can load and unload it quickly. They have learned to hit with it well. So... for them it is the only choice. For them it feels better and works better than anything else they pick up and try for a few rounds.

I don't think you would be disappointed in any of the choices you mentioned. Good luck.

[jmr40]

You don't mention your budget but if you can live with a synthetic stock my standard answer to these questions is to buy the Walmart special Beretta for about $550. It is essentially the older Beretta 390 without the magazine cutoff and a black plastic stock. The most gun you can get in an auto in my opinion.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Remington 11-87 or 1100. The 870 pump is a classic as well. If we had an idea of how much you would like to spend it would help with advice. There are a lot of bargains in used guns and you may be able to afford more gun than you think if you are willing to buy used.

[Virginian]

I like 1100s. I have since 1963. Right now Berettas are the fashionable gun. In the 70s you just "had to have" an Ithaca 51. But all the while that Remington has just been ticking along. Yes I do have to clean the gas system. 2 minutes to squirt it with WD-40 or RemOil and wipe it off. I know you don't have to do that with a Benelli, but I like the fillings in my teeth the way they are. I don't think you need anything more than 3" shells with the advancements in shells the last few years. And yes, I do need more than one barrel to shoot everything from real light girly men loads up to the 3"ers, but I have more than one barrel, so that is okay. The 11-87 addressed that, and added choke tubes, but I opt for the better handling lighter barrel.
I tried the Browning A-5, but I can't get used to the long recoil Browning shuffle. I can't get used to any gun with a big hole in the left side of the receiver, either.
Try as many as you can and make up your own mind which one feels best to you. Before getting too influenced by "fashion" remember, the weather and the fashions will surely change.

[Harry in SC]

So far I hear a lot of you saying the Remington 1100 or Browning Auto 5 or Gold Superlite Hunter. Can anyone tell me what the difference in the Browning Silver and Gold line is? I can't figure it out...they seem to be pretty comparable to one another.

The thing that concerns me about going to get a used shotgun, is that I worry about how well it has been taken care of. I am meticulous about anything I own, especially my firearms. I want to know it has been well maintained. Is there anything I need to look for when purchasing a used shotgun? Should I even look at a used shotgun or just go ahead and spend the money for a brand new one? I know these are a lot of questions...sorry!

Does anyone know the maintenance record of one of the Beretta 390's? Are they pretty reliable?

Harry :scrutiny:

[Snarlingiron]

The Beretta 390's are super reliable and require little in the way of maintenance. Many folks prefer them to the newer 391's, because they are easier to disassemble and clean than the newer guns. On the other hand, the gas system on the 391's is improved over the 390's, but with that improvement came additional complexity.

Frankly, I was on the verge of buying a Browning Gold Superlight Hunter, when I found the used A390. The silver has the semi humpback design receiver. I believe this is a feeble attempt by Browning to cater to the A5 owners. Kind of silly, because while these are fine guns, they are not A5's. Additionally, the Silver does not have the magazine cut off that the Golds do. Again I don't find this to be a real useful feature, so It really does not matter to me. The Gold models have the auto load feature and the Silvers do not. That feature is where you have the bolt locked open, and an empty magazine. When you put the first round into the magazine, the gun automatically loads it into the chamber. Again, not a big deal for me.

Browning's web site says that from now until November, you get a $100.00 rebate on any Browning Gold you purchase. That is a big deal for me.

Also, keep in mind that the Winchesters are the same gun, made in the same factory as the Brownings. FN Herstal owns both companies. The differences are primarily cosmetic. Shape of the safety button, stock finish, etc. Prices are about the same.

A lot of folks believe that the newest Brownchesters have the best gas system of them all. Could be. I am just really liking the A390 right now. If it were to go away tomorrow, I would most likely be buying the Browning Gold Superlight Hunter. I would pick it over the Winchester because I can get it for $100.00 less.

The current incarnation of the A390 is the 3901. It is made in the US in the same plant that the Beretta 92 pistols are made. It is comparable in price to the Brownings and Winchesters. There are some that say it is not as good as the 390, but if you research it, you will be hard pressed to find someone that has one that doesn't like it. It pretty much is the 390 without the magazine cutoff.

As far as buying new or used, there are a lot of factors. I am a very mechanical guy. I have found a lot of bargains because there was some slight problem with a gun, that I recognized and knew I could easily fix. On the other hand, if you are not of this bent, and do not have a good dealer to back up a used gun, then new is probably the way to go. If you know of a good place that takes consignment guns, then you may find some great bargains there too. My buddy that bought the AL391 Urika got it for $485.00. It is like new. It was on consignment. I am convinced that some one just needed to move it really quick for a mortgage or rent payment. The dealer he bought it from gave him a 30 day guarantee with it. Great deal, not a lot of risk.

[machinisttx]

used 870 wingmasters run around $170-$230 here. I own four, use them a lot, and think quite highly of them.

870 Express models usually sell in the $180 range used here, will have interchangeable choke tubes, and a 3" chamber. Not as nice as the wingmasters, but entirely serviceable.

[jmr40]

As I said earlier the Remingtons are a good choice and they have the reputation to back it up. Have used them successfuly in the past but prefere the Beretta or Benelli now. Both the Beretta and Benelli are lighter to carry because of the aluminum receivers and I like the location of the bolt release better.

Reimgtons used to dominate in the competition shooting circles but the Beretta has replaced it at this time. The Beretta is slightly heavier than the Benelli and is gas operated to reduce recoil. The Benelli is the lightest weight and since it is recoil operated will kick harder. I prefer the Benelli for hunting because of the light weight and their reputation for working better when dirty.

If I had to have only 1 gun to do everything with for the rest of my life I would pick one of my Remington 870 Wingmasters. I shoot them well and they will keep shooting when everything else has stopped.

[RNB65]

Beretta 391 Urika. Nothing else comes close as a clay shooter or general purpose gun (except maybe the Beretta 390).

[Harry in SC]

Keep the comments comin' if you don't mind. I am getting some really good feedback on here. Thanks again!

Harry ;)

[Harry in SC]

So, I think I have narrowed my search down to these two shotguns. I am having a difficult time telling the difference in these two guns (except the price tag). Does anyone know the major differences and/or if they matter enough to justify spending more money on the Gold? I want the most gun for my money...but not to break the bank. (Certainly we all can relate to this with our current economy...)

Also, is there really a big difference in the 28" barrel and the 26" barrel? If so, what is the difference?

Thanks!

Harry

[jakemccoy]

Wingmaster

[Snarlingiron]

The Silver and the Gold are essentially the same gun.

Differences that I have observed;

1. The Silver has a semi humpback receiver, the Gold is rounded
2. The Gold has the magazine cut off feature, the Silver does not. (I personally do not think this is a big deal)
3. The Gold has the auto load feature, the Silver does not. (I feel that this is somewhat "gimmicky", and not of any real great value).

There may be others, but these are what I have observed when I was looking at these guns.

I have a Remington 11-87 with a 26" barrel, and a 28" barel.
I have a Stoeger M2000 with a 28" barrel.
I have a Beretta a390 with a 30" barrel.
I have a Yildiz O/U with 26" barrels.

I seem to hit better with the longer barrel guns. I don't know why. Some folks think the extra weight smooths out the swing. I ain't smart enough to know. It just seems to me that I hit better with the longer ones. Also, the longer barrels seem to be more prevalent on the skeet and sporting clays ranges.

[another okie]

I have an Ithaca, two Remington 1100s, and a Benelli. The older Remington was made about 1966, is 20 gauge, and runs perfectly. The other is a 12 gauge, made about 2005, and I have to fix something almost every time I shoot it. It gets dirty fast and then jams. That's why I bought the Benelli M2. It cycles everything and stays clean. There is a little more recoil.

[Harry in SC]

"The Silver and the Gold are essentially the same gun.

Differences that I have observed;

1. The Silver has a semi humpback receiver, the Gold is rounded
2. The Gold has the magazine cut off feature, the Silver does not. (I personally do not think this is a big deal)
3. The Gold has the auto load feature, the Silver does not. (I feel that this is somewhat "gimmicky", and not of any real great value)."



Snarlingiron (or anyone else who may know),

What is the magazine cut off feature? Also, the auto load feature you referred to...is that something only Browning has, or do other companies have the same thing? I want to make sure I get this all figured out before I drop the cash. Thanks buddy!

Harry

[jmr40]

Magazine cutoff- Allows you to eject the round from the chamber and the rounds will remain in the magazine. Let's say you are duck hunting and have #4 shot in your gun. A goose is flying over in range. Using the magazine cutoff will allow you to eject the round from the chamber and drop a round of BB shot directly into the chamber. Could also change from buckshot to slugs if deer hunting.

Never had a gun with the auto load feature but this is how I THINK it works. With your bolt locked back when you drop a round into the chamber it automatically chambers the round. With most autos you have to press a button somewhere on the gun to unlock the bolt and chamber the round.

[Snarlingiron]

jmr40 is right, I think. However, I am basing my thinking about the value of the magazine cut off on the Beretta A390, and the Stoeger M2000 that I own. On these guns, If you have not pulled the trigger, cycling the bolt will cause the chambered shell to eject without feeding another round from the magazine. Is this not essentially an "automatic" magazine cutoff?

The Brownchester, I am assuming is the same...maybe not?

Also, like jmr40, I dont have a gun with the autoload feature, nor have I ever used one. With that said, I have read that with the chamber empty, and the bolt locked open, when you feed a round into the magazine, it automatically feeds from the magazine, and the bolt releases and chambers the first round.

I can't imagine that it is quicker or easier than tossing a round into the ejection port, pushing the button, and sliding another round or two into the magazine.

Hey, some Browning Gold owner help us out here.

[krimmie]

I had a Gold, and the magazine cutoff works as you describe. Flip the switch, and you can unload the chamber without a new round being released from the magazine. I never used this feature.

I loved the auto load feature though...at least while hunting ducks. When the last round is fired, the bolt locks open, you simply load a round in the magazine and it feeds itself into the chamber. When it comes to fast paced shooting, it allows you to keep your eyes on the incoming ducks and eliminates any buttons to push to chamber a round. After initial loading, it's just shells to magazine until you're done.

[240SX]

A lot depends on what you are going to use the shotgun for, hunting, skeet, or home protection. Keeping these factors in mind should help lead you to the shotgun that is right for you and your needs.

BTW: I recommend Remington 870...awesome shotguns, take a lick'n & keep on tick'n. I have 2 that I use for bird and duck hunt, respectively. Each is set (choke & barrel length) for what I am hunting for (along with different Mossy Oak camo...hee hee).

Hope that rambling on helped you in some way. - 240SX

[RP88]

since you're thinking of getting a multi-sporting purpose gun, I would say to go with Remington as well because of their aftermarket that allows you to turn just about any remington into a gun that will fit any purpose you want it to.

[RonE]

..."Also, is there really a big difference in the 28" barrel and the 26" barrel? If so, what is the difference?"...

The answer is 2" (ha ha). The real difference is how the gun feels to you. I doubt that 1 out of 10 people can tell the difference, and the shot preformance out of 26 vs 28" barrels is almost too slight to measure. Trying to find one gun that does all things is difficult. If you are set on that, I would look for a semi auto 12 ga with vent rib, a somewhat high stock comb and screw in chokes. I would go for the shorter end of the barrel length spectrum for easier handling in the field and duck blind.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

"The Silver and the Gold are essentially the same gun.

Differences that I have observed;

1. The Silver has a semi humpback receiver, the Gold is rounded
2. The Gold has the magazine cut off feature, the Silver does not. (I personally do not think this is a big deal)
3. The Gold has the auto load feature, the Silver does not. (I feel that this is somewhat "gimmicky", and not of any real great value)."

I thought that the Golds were backbored, and the Silvers weren't?

[Harry in SC]

What does "backbored" mean? Just curious!

Thanks for all of the replies!

Harry

[Two Cold Soakers]

Beretta 391 Urika.

Cycled and cycled and cycled every crap handload I shoved down it's throat - I intentionally played a little loose with quality control.

I finally cleaned the guts after about 1800 rounds.

I like the sporting model - (nicer wood)

Of course Italian over-unders are nice, too..

[PlayMaker]

What you are looking for is a Stoeger M2000 my friend. The newer ones with a higher rib and red viz sights. It's got that neat little inertia system like those Franchis and Benellis. Just smack on a Limbsaver to tame the recoil. It'll set you back around 4 Benjamins, maybe less. It's my little secret but I'm helpng you out because someone did the same for me once.:evil:

[ArmedBear]

What does "backbored" mean? Just curious!

On a new gun, by definition it means NOTHING.

A good gunsmith can enlarge the bore of an existing gun, between the forcing cone and choke, to change the inner contours of the barrel, which may improve patterns and does lighten the barrel to change balance and swing characteristics. That's called "backboring" and some shooters report great results with guns that handled or shot poorly, after sending their barrels to a really good 'smith to be backbored.

Gunmakers don't make a barrel and then go back in and change the bore. So if they use "backbore" as a verb, it's just plain false. "Overbored" is more accurate, in that the bore is made at the factory slightly larger than the nominal bore size for the gauge.

Ditto for "lengthened forcing cones." "Long forcing cones designed for modern plastic wads" would be accurate, but actually lengthening the cones is what you do to an older gun with a reamer. Standard forcing cones still work with vegetable fiber wads as well as plastic; longer cones work only with plastic wads, but they have smoothed-out recoil and maybe less shot deformation.

[Mr Bernoulli]

ok to be honest I didnt look at what anyone else said. I would reccomend an 11-87 for your needs. My brother has one and loves the thing. He got the waterfowl one that has that R3 recoil pad and loves it says there is no kick. This would be great for water fowl or clays for you. If you really want a pump deep down which it sounds like you might get the 870 lol. I know its tempting to get the auto loaders for those lightning fast follow ups with ease but you cant beat the rugged dependability of a pump lol

[ScottsGT]

Harry,
PM me. I'm right down the road in NE Columbia, and I have a few shotguns I'm selling for a friend that is retired. Have a few autos, quite a few pumps, and all priced to move. Have a Browning, but it has been refinished, and not very good! Matt black finish and all the engraving just about polished out. Also have a really nice Ithical 37 pump, Mossberg 500, Rem 1100, and a few others.
Your welcome to browse thru them, you just have to excuse the mess in my shop right now!!

[Harry in SC]

ScottsGT...I sent you the PM buddy! Thanks!

Harry

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

ArmedBear, thank you. Yes, I meant that I heard the Gold was overbored and the Silver wasn't.

[snakejake]

I bought a Benelli SBE2 in Nov 2006 and have been in love with it ever since. Easier to clean than the 870's I own, and will do anything I want it to, from early season dove to late season high flying snow geese. I am also on a limited budget, but I saved my pennies and am very happy I did. I did my homework and it came down to the SBE2 and the Beretta Xtrema2. I just liked the Benelli better.

[gtmerkley]

97 Winchester

[mtngunr]

I don't shoot clays, just critters, and my GP shotgun is the 870P....cylinder bore is great out to 30yds, and for home defense it's without peer....shoots slugs very accurately at 50yds, also, and can be bought sub-$400 from Hoplite, Inc.....I recommend a used one for even better value......

[Harry in SC]

the Smith and Wesson 1000 series shotguns? I just picked up a Smith and Wesson catalog with these shotguns in it. Seems to be pretty comparable to everything we have discussed on this topic. Anyone have any experience with Smith and Wesson shotguns? Just curious...

Harry :banghead:

[Harry in SC]

Anyone had any experience at all with the Smith and Wesson shotguns? If so...good, bad, indifferent?

Thanks!

Harry

[Fred Fuller]

Harry,

S&W tried the shotgun market a couple of times in a previous life. First they tried reaching out to the police pumpgun market in the early 1970s with an effort known as the S&W Model 916. Let us draw the veil of charity over that one, please.

At about the same time (early 1970s) they offered a gas operated semiauto known as the Model 1000. As I never knew anyone who had one, I don't know how well these guns worked or held up, but S&W dropped their shotgun line completely in the early 1980s. Mossberg picked up the Model 1000 design and ran with it a little while but also dropped it about 1987. Somewhere in there S&W made another try for the police pumpgun market share practically owned by Remington with their S&W Model 3000- a design that was much like the Remington 870, for some reason. Again, after a short while they abandoned the field and orphaned their shotgun owners.

Personally I'd look for a manufacturer with a bit better track record and more longevity for their shotgun line, YMMV of course.

hth,

lpl/nc

[Harry in SC]

I just appreciate someone responding. Thanks for the info!

Harry

[ScottsGT]

Harry,
I have one of those S&W Model 1000 too, if interested.

[Dirtypacman]

I know it comes with a price tag but my Beretta Xtrema2 is one hell of a shotgun. Covers all purposes you discussed and is top notch.

[T-Ray]

for auto's, remington and browning have good guns. You could spend a little more and get a beretta. for pumps, 870 wingmaster, browning has a good gun, can't think of the model, or you could go with a benelli nova, or supernova for pump. Benelli also has autoloaders.

[Harry in SC]

I think I am narrowing my selections down. I am going to go with a Browning, Remington, or Beretta. One thing I have learned on this thread is everyone has different opinions about which shotgun is the best. I never imagined there would be so many different opinions. Another important thing I learned from this thread is never make a negative (or ill-informed) :o comment about Beretta...people on here take that stuff personally and seriously. Gee whiz! Maybe I should take a poll on here. If you could have your choice of the Browning Gold Superlite Hunter, the Remington 11-87, or the Beretta AL391 (all 12 gauge models)...which would YOU choose? Let's just say (hypothetically) money were not a concern. This should be interesting.

Harry

[Fred Fuller]

Me? NOTA. (none of the above)

If I HAD to have a semiauto (I prefer pumps), then...

I'd get a Remington 1100 (probably used) chambered for 2 3/4" shells, with a 26-28" VR barrel with RemChokes, and buy a 21" factory smoothbore barrel with rifle sights. I'd replace the O ring, if I did buy used, and give it a good cleaning and lubing, not overlooking the return spring tube in the buttstock. I'd make sure it fit me properly, making any adjustments necessary to the stock, maybe even put on a premium recoil pad, and then not worry about anything else, except maybe adding sling swivel studs. And maybe a cut-down E Z Loader or the like, maybe.

And then I'd shoot it till either it died or I died.

lpl/nc (and if it died first, I'd get another 1100)

[Snarlingiron]

In my never to be humble opionion my choices in autoloaders would be:

1. Beretta
2. Browning
3. Remington

[45auto]

For clay targets of all varieties, you would hard-pressed not to see at least 90% of all autos being Beretta or Remington...IMO.

Few pump guns except in single trap.

All varieties of hunting guns, which are "shot little...carried a lot", can work.
Not very demanding "work" for most shotguns.

A Remington or Beretta auto would be the "safest" and "best" bet for both types of shooting IMHO.

[porscheboy]

Benelli Supernova hands down