Decisions: suppressed .223 or .308?


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Vegaslaith
June 15, 2008, 03:26 AM
I have neither rifle and want a suppressed one. So if you could afford only one --suppressed .223( AR) or .308 (HK91) which would it be and why?

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MTMilitiaman
June 15, 2008, 03:40 AM
7.62x51 NATO

Though I would opt for a gas operated rifle like the FAL, with an adjustable gas system.

brentn
June 15, 2008, 03:44 AM
I wish I had either option, but personally I would probably go with a .223

Im not going to lie, but I have very little knowledge on suppressors and their effects on different calibers, so I have to ask the question. Is .223 quieter than .308 when used with a suppressor?

Kind of Blued
June 15, 2008, 03:44 AM
Sorry to drift, but do you have a suppressed .22LR rifle?

Vegaslaith
June 15, 2008, 05:37 AM
No, I don't have anything chambered in .22LR. Brentn, I wanna say .223 is all around quieter suppressed, but I'm not sure.

TAB
June 15, 2008, 06:23 AM
Unless your using sub sonic loads your still going to hear the crack of the bullet.

Shung
June 15, 2008, 08:30 AM
and it's hard to get a .223 subsonic stabilized in a 1/9 barrel, like in most AR...

I tried it in my M4 with supressor, using 80grains molycoated bullets and shooting rounds 1 by 1, since it would not cycle the bolt... but frankly the sounds suppression is not worth it (mostly because .223 supressor are made to suppress supersonic gaz expansion, and you will still hear the supersonic crack, but you shot will be very hard to localize) compared to a standard 22lr ammo supressed in a bolt rifle or semi auto, which make NO more noise when shooting than a airgun (pellet gun).

you could stabilize a subsonic 55 grain bullet in an 1/9 barelled AR, but than, the ballistic efficency of this bullet would be exactly the same as a 22lr, and it would still make more noise..

If you want something really stealthy, go for a good 22lr supressed.

Now, I heard about 300 whisper etc, but never tried it. maybe it's the best way, if you can afford it. Here, there's no such way.

Shung
June 15, 2008, 08:34 AM
btw, obviously the .223 would make less noise than the 308 with a same technology suppressor... and this is due to the volume of expanded gaz (more in a 308, so harder to supress)

La Pistoletta
June 15, 2008, 08:37 AM
I believe the argument goes that for optimal suppression, since you need to slow down bullets to below the speed of sound anyway, bullets that rely more on mass than speed (as in 7.62 compared to 5.56) will lose comparatively less energy.

Shung
June 15, 2008, 08:55 AM
a subsonic 7.62, in my mind would have a terrible dropdown, and therefore a very poor ballistic.

suppressors on assault rifle, are not meant to make the gun silenced, but to make it very hard to localize you when you are shooting with.

Just Jim
June 15, 2008, 11:37 AM
Gemtech makes a suppresor for the 223 that is an "entry supprosor" It just quiets the gun enough that it doesn't ruin your hearing as you shoot indoors. You can thread this on a 22lr but it still doesn't hide the sound barrier pop.

jj

bogie
June 15, 2008, 12:56 PM
Just a suggestion here...

Why .223 or .308? If you want a suppressor, go WAY silent... Get a .45ACP bolt rifle with an integral can, like the new copies they're doing of the delisle...

No, it is not a thousand yard rifle. But if you have your bullet drop stuff together, and know how it is going to shoot, it's a 200 yard rifle.

Arkady
June 15, 2008, 01:06 PM
Take your question over to www.SilencerTalk.com

Good guys, lots of knowledge--that is how I made the decision on mine.

Bartholomew Roberts
June 15, 2008, 01:16 PM
What is the overall goal you are trying to meet here?

I've fired my 16" AR with an OPS Inc. 16th model next to a .308 AI with a Jet can and the AI was noticeably quieter. So caliber isn't the only issue.

I think you'll have a hard time getting the HK91 quieter than an AR though and man, it is going to be filthy.

taliv
June 15, 2008, 01:39 PM
suppressed or unsuppressed, i'd take an AR over an HK91 any day, for nearly any purpose.

my goals in suppressing a rifle, in order of importance:
1. ear pro
2. they're kind of cool / conversation piece
3. possession annoys liberals / gov doesn't want me to have

note that none of those involve hollywood fantasies

Harley Quinn
June 15, 2008, 01:42 PM
What is the overall goal you are trying to meet here?

Maybe with two of us asking, there will be an answer to this question. I really don't understand the desire regarding these two rounds.

The best thing to do is find a round that can go subsonic and still be effective, then go from there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound

:what:

Funderb
June 15, 2008, 01:52 PM
.223 is harder to do subsonic, build an ar in that 338 whisper or whatever.

Vegaslaith
June 15, 2008, 01:59 PM
The overall goal is to have a suppressed rifle that is quiet and doesn't drop as much over a long distance. I don't know too much about ballistics though, just that gravity eventually overcomes a bullet's trajectory.

Funderb
June 15, 2008, 02:03 PM
then the whisper is for you, look it up, it's a really interesting round

Harley Quinn
June 15, 2008, 02:07 PM
More on the 338 Whisper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Whisper

300 grain or up if you can find the bullet or make it (cast) seems to be a good one, but if you want less drop and less FPE then lighter is better.

:)

Bartholomew Roberts
June 15, 2008, 02:19 PM
First thing to understand is that any supersonic round is going to be at least as loud as an unsuppressed .22LR.

In order to get quieter than that, you need to go subsonic. If you also need range and less drop, then you are looking at something like the Whisper rounds - long, heavy rounds with a high ballistic coefficient. If you don't need greater than 100yds, then you can use pistol calibers subsonic.

The Whispers are much neater; but the pistol calibers are a little more accessible and cheaper to shoot.

boilingleadbath
June 15, 2008, 02:33 PM
A subsonic bullet will drop roughly many times as far at a given range, compared to a normal-speed bullet.

For instance, the drop at range for 1050 fps 165grain .308 (BC of .475):
4" @ 50yards
16" @ 100 yards
67" @ 200 yards

For now, you can just approximate that the drop will be the square of the distance; drop(in) = constant*range(yards)^2

The .300 whisper can propel a 125 grain bullet at 2100 fps:
19" drop at 200 yards

The .308 can propel a 165 grain bullet at 2700 fps:
10" drop at 200 yards

Funderb
June 15, 2008, 02:54 PM
maybe it's the 300 wisper that i'm thinking of.
point is, it's not really going to be well suppressed if its supers.

Seafarer12
June 15, 2008, 05:22 PM
I would go with a 300 whisper with a 240 grain matchking.

Harley Quinn
June 15, 2008, 08:20 PM
maybe it's the 300 wisper that i'm thinking of.
point is, it's not really going to be well suppressed if its supers.

The point of the Whisper is...;)
Subsonic not very noisy at all, bolt action etc..
:D

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