HK 91 / PTR 91 / G3 thread


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taprackbang
June 15, 2008, 10:49 AM
Hello,

Just wanted to chat with others who own a PTR 91, HK 91, or CETME.
I bought a PTR 91 and love it. It is my first MBR and I am already looking to
make additions to it.

Just seeing if anyone else is out there.

If you enjoyed reading about "HK 91 / PTR 91 / G3 thread" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
leadcounsel
June 15, 2008, 11:30 AM
I have the PTR91 and really like it.

There are some things that are almost necessary fixes though. First, the stock front handguards are worthlessly thin. Spend $100 or so on an aluminum tri-picatinny rail system. Easy fix. Then put handguards or other necessities on it. Second, the hollow plastic stock is worthless. I swapped mine out for a $60 tapco collapsable stock. Much better.

I then bought 100 magazines for $1 each! A good investment for sure! I don't have pictures now but it's a beautiful setup.

Eric F
June 15, 2008, 11:35 AM
I had a g3 clone I think it was a century arms rifle, any way it was built on an aluminum receiver. Bottom line the receiver occasionaly spit out a chunk of metal. I could not tell where it was coming from but I sold it before it broke for good.

my rifle was about minute of basketball accurate mag changes are fast. but if you have to operate the bolt its slower than other 308 battle rifles. The bonus is mags are plentiful and cheap. Easy to take down. I built a "breif case" to put it in. Was really cool and fun too for the problems I had with it. I have handeled the ptr91 and it is built way better and it was far more accurate.

taprackbang
June 15, 2008, 11:38 AM
Man you got a better deal than I did on G3 mags. ($3.00 for me) BUT I did find 120 rounds of .308 for .33 cents a round! (Czech surp.) I bought my PTR 91 brand new from CDNN Sports for $899.99!

Which rear sight setting do you use? I switched from the '100 yard' V-Notch sight to the 300 Yard Peep sight. Seems to work better.
Hey what ammo does your PTR like best?

I agree about the buttstock. I cannot get a good 'cheek weld' on that chessy plastic one. Bostons Gun Bible says to drop in a CETME buttstock, that its better.

taprackbang
June 15, 2008, 11:45 AM
CDNN Sports are selling BRAND NEW PTR 91s for $899.99! Best deal anywhere for new MBR.

Bostons Gun Bible says, "Many of the modern parts kits (Hesse and CETMEs) won't even hit paper at 100m due to chronic sight misalignment. Unadjusted, it is about 24 MOA off to the left. With the rear sight fully drifted over, POI is still 12" off!"

He thinks that the barrel is 5-6 degrees off due to insufficient barrel tightening.

Eric F
June 15, 2008, 11:51 AM
taprackbang that is likely, centery arms has never produced a MBR in the autoloading fassion that I have found to be accurate by most standard. I have had 3 2fal's and the g3 none were very accurate. then the g3 and the chunks of aluminum comming out of the receiver were kinda scary for me. I got them all in the mid 90's or so for around $499 IIRC I dont have any MBR's any more they are just not my flavor in my older age. And ammo prices the way they are I cant afford to shoot an auto loader right now. lol(like a bolt gun is cheaper to shoot!)

taprackbang
June 15, 2008, 01:02 PM
What is up with Century Arms? Why cant they put out a workable gun?
The FAL is another rifle where you have to be selective; or so, I hear. Excellent in the FN, DSA series, but I hear that you have to be careful when selecting a kit built gun.

I love my PTR, but you are right about the expensive ammo. I have been shooting my Mosin instead.

SaxonPig
June 15, 2008, 01:03 PM
Around 1980 or so I bought a genuine H&K Model 91. I think I paid $380 for it brand new. I bought all the accessories to go with it. I had that God-awful expensive detachable scope mount, about 10 magazines, the bipod, I even bought the bayonet (don't ask me why).

Then in June of 1986 my home was burglarized and all of my guns were stolen including this rifle. After a year and it wasn't recovered (only 3 of 23 had been found by that time) I sold all the accessories (separate from the gun and not stolen) to my favorite gun store.

A friend had just returned from duty with the Army in Germany and he brought back a Belgian made FN FAL he had purchased while stationed there. He offered it to me for $700 as he decided he preferred 5.56 rifles. I still have that rifle.

In 2003 I got a postcard from the Los Angeles PD saying they had recovered one of my stolen guns from a drug dealer and did I want it back? Hell, yes, I wanted it back. It was the 91. I had to travel to LA to collect it but when I got it back it didn't have a mark on it. Took 17 years but it finally came home. I still have hope for the others.

I like both guns but maybe prefer the FAL just a tad. The H&K is loud beyond belief. And empties get thrown about 50 yards with the case mouths usually crushed. I shoot military ammo that won't be reloaded in it and forget the cases. I don't know how close the CETMEs and various clones are to the H&K product. I like mine. I never replaced the scope mount etc., but I stocked up when I saw West German surplus mags on sale at $4 each. Bought about 30, I think.

Here's the 91 on the right with the FN on the left and little brother AR in the middle.


http://www.fototime.com/F0098D57D2E2C55/standard.jpg

MJ
June 15, 2008, 01:32 PM
You ar lucky they returned it. I went to pick up my stolen MINT all matching dot 45 and the property room guy had it on the counter grinding off the receiver ring and the eagles on the matching stock destroying my valuable vet gun. Why? He looked me in the eye and said, 'Cuz he can.' What a dick.


...MJ...

Z-Michigan
June 15, 2008, 02:36 PM
I have a PTR-91 that I got via CDNN last year. I am reasonably happy with it, but not thrilled. It throws brass so far and hard that you have trouble finding it. So far my accuracy hasn't been very good. I realize that is likely 99% operator issues, but I am accurate with AR's and many other types of rifles. It may be that the PTR doesn't fit me as well. I'm not flinching, and in fact I find the recoil pretty mild for a .308 rifle. I was also surprised at the lack of a last-shot bolt hold-open, though I realize that is how it's been since it was designed as the G3.

Bottom line - I'll be keeping it, but I don't shoot it much. My next .308 will likely be either a FN-FAL or a bolt action.

SaxonPig
June 15, 2008, 02:52 PM
No, he can't damage your property.

Time to lawyer up. They count on it being too expensive to sue them but I don't give a damn what it costs.

Some cops don't need to be cops.

Like those asshats.

Father Knows Best
June 15, 2008, 03:08 PM
I have had a PTR-91 for about four years now. What can I say about it? Well...

It's HEAVY. And terribly balanced (weight is very forward). The OEM stocks were cheaply made. The ergonomics suck. The trigger was the heaviest, creepiest thing ever. The BATFE-mandated push button mag release is the worst bit of jerry-rigged engineering ever. It's loud. It recoils harder than any .308 semiauto should. It throws brass forward and right so far you won't ever find it, which doesn't matter that much because the brass isn't reloadable anyway (case mouths crushed and the fluted chamber leaves striations).

I love it, anyway. Mine has been modified quite a bit. Bill Springfield did the trigger, and it breaks cleanly now at about 5 pounds. I have a Magpul PRS buttstock, and a G3 wide forearm on it. I put a Tac-Latch paddle mag release on it. I also mounted an original HK claw mount and Hensoldt scope on it. Like others, I bought about 50 mags when they were $1 each.

So why do I love it? Because it does the important things very, very well. It is extremely accurate for an MBR -- easily shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards with match ammo. It is supremely reliable - always feeding, firing and ejecting without fail. Reliability and accuracy -- those are the most important things in my book.

I paid $700 for my PTR-91, which is one of the very early ones with a polygonal hammer-forged barrel and plain muzzle (no flash hider). I was the second owner, but the first owner hardly ever touched it. My $700 bought me the PTR-91, a dozen mags and 800 rounds of Argentine milsurp, so the gun itself was pretty cheap. I probably have another $1000 in parts and work into it, but it is money well spent, 'cause I get a grin every time I shoot it.

MJ
June 15, 2008, 05:53 PM
$465 new
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/DSCF0033.jpg

...MJ...

Dave R
June 15, 2008, 06:19 PM
Eventually happy CETME owner here. Search my old posts for more details on my experience with this gun. Here's the short version.

Bought the CETME at a gun store. It had the common problem of "not enough windage" (because Century did not take enough care assembling it.)

Took it back to the dealer. Dealer offered to make a new front sight with enough windage, and I agreed. First shootings indicated the gun was accurate, though off target.

The fix worked, and actually improved accuracy, because I wound up with a finer front sight post.

The rifle shoots an honest 2MOA, and that includes regular 4" groups at 200 yards. It has not misfed once in the years I have owned it. It is easy to clean. Yes, the trigger is tough, but I'll get Bill Springfield to fix that. Thanks for the reminder, Father Knows Best.

Mine is very soft recoiling, unlike Father's. Lighter than a 20 ga. Yes, its LOUD. That's the muzzle brake turning recoil into noise. The report doesn't bother the shooter much, but it does bother those to the side. I go off by myself at the range, or I soon wind up by myself, as people move.

Now, I love the rifle.

I like the ergonomics. Maybe that's just me, but I like it better then a FAL. As for muzzle-heavy, that has some advantages. I find it easy to hold on target, particularly from a seated position. And the muzzle returns to point of aim after firing. Muzzle-lite guns, like my AK, have a lot more "wander" when I'm not at a bench rest. All the better for a battle rifle.

RLsnow
June 15, 2008, 06:22 PM
Don`t own any weapons (this is Norway after all, and i am only 16 anyway.) but i got to play around with an AG3 about 2 weeks back. (Don`t worry, by play i don`t mean fooling around, rather assemble/dissasemble and getting to know it)

also got to shoot it some :D that was great fun.

(BTW, the AG3 is a G3 made in norway for the Norwegian military, the one i get to play with is modified for semi automatic only.)


I like it alot, got to lug it around with me in the woods, didn`t feel heavy to me. Though i did not have all that much equipment on me.

Did a lot of Assembly/Disassembly and it was hard on my fingers, got a few cuts and scrapes. At first i was a bit afraid of breaking the thing, but i was told i would break long before i managed to even hurt the rifle.


Shooting it was a bit overwhelming at first, keeping in mind i had only ever shot 22LR before in my life (several years back) this did not surprise me much. It was not that the recoil bothered me, was more the boom and all that.

also, using the military sights on those round targets was a bit difficult :P



All in all, im really looking forward to next time :) hopefully we will get to shoot some more, though that`s not certain.

Dave R
June 15, 2008, 08:00 PM
also, using the military sights on those round targets was a bit difficult :P Yes, it takes some practice.

Congratulations on shooting such a fine rifle! I'm sure you enjoyed that.

RLsnow
June 15, 2008, 08:03 PM
hehe, it is a fine rifle, though i was told i had to handle it like a MAN! xD

It didnt make it easier that we didn`t have the tools to adjust the sights to the side xD


oh well, it was fun, very fun.

gcrookston
June 15, 2008, 08:39 PM
I've owned several 91's over the years.

I wanted to make a marksman rifle out of one, but could never achieve the accuracy I wanted (1 MOA), so moved onto other projects, namely finishing up my 93 and M1

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/207717fh2.jpg

sernv99
June 15, 2008, 09:22 PM
bought a PTR from CDNN a month ago. The only problem I had was a bad round getting crushed. Cartridge malfunction. The bullet was crushed into the casing. How? I have no idea. This locked up the bolt. I couldn't use the charging handle to rack the bolt back and forth. I had to take the gun and slam the buttstock on a hard surface. That finally loosened up the bolt and I was able to rack the bolt back and expell the deformed cartridge. I then put another 100 rounds through it with out problem.

The thing I don't like about this gun is the assembly. To get the bolt back together is a pain in the ass. I had trouble putting it together. But it shoots great, a real powerhouse. I shot this pretty good, no complaints on accuracy.

Fixxxer
June 15, 2008, 09:25 PM
I have a Greek SAR8.

Closest you can get to a 91, half the price tag.

Z-Michigan
June 16, 2008, 12:17 AM
sernv99, I agree - the bolt reassembly is really difficult. First time it took me over an hour, and my fingers were sore for a day or two. Supposedly it gets easier with practice.

Fixxxer - not sure what you mean, but a PTR-91 is a clone of the HK91 made in the US on original HK tooling bought from Portugal. Most people who've looked at both consider the PTR91 to be better made than an authentic HK91. AFAIK, all parts are interchangeable.

If an "SAR8" is somehow more HK91 than this, or costs less, I'd be curious to hear more.

taprackbang
June 16, 2008, 12:19 AM
SaxonPig, cool story about getting your HK back and your original FN. Genuine FNs are going for around $4,000 now.

I called PTR about what is the best surp ammo. They said best Surp ammo is:

1. Lake City
2. Argentine
3. British
4. Spanish
5. Australian

I fired Australian surp and found it to be accurate. Couple of 1/2 groups at one inch black squares at 25 meters. I just bought some Czech ammo for .33 cents a round, but no report on it yet. The reason for the 5 preferred types is because they don't use any tar sealer in production.

Stay away from Israeli, Indian, and Pakistani. Just what I heard, but you guys may already know about this.

taprackbang
June 16, 2008, 12:21 AM
Oh, I forgot about Portuguese. This is good ammo for the PTR.
I figured out the bolt re-assembly, but it took me about 30 min.
of finding out the trick of getting the bolt head back on.

And yes I heard that the PTR 91 is indeed an improved HK91.

taprackbang
June 16, 2008, 12:27 AM
Has anyone here swapped out the original PTR buttstock for a CETME buttstock? If so, can you tell much of a difference?

W.E.G.
June 16, 2008, 12:37 AM
Skateboard-tape CETME.

Aint she purrrrr-ty?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/CETME/CETME-2.jpg

taprackbang
June 16, 2008, 01:20 AM
Nice rifle.. I love two-tone colors.

Dbl0Kevin
June 16, 2008, 01:57 AM
Guess I'll add mine to the bunch here....

FA-91 "Skateboard tape" version
Brunton NRA Sport Optics 3-9x Scope
Added a wide foregrip with the help of hours of dremeling
Can of Krylon for the furniture
Trigger group is at Williiams Trigger Specialties for a trigger job as we speak.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c159/Dbl0Kevin/FA91-right.jpg

RLsnow
June 16, 2008, 06:43 AM
To the guy who mentioned the bolt assembly being the hardest part, yes it was!

I not only got most of my scrapes and cuts from there (and general soreness in the hands) but it was the part of the assembly that held me the most back, time wise.

A friend of mine however managed it very well, so it is all technique. We will train more the next time we get to play around with the rifles I hope.

As for ammo, we were shooting the kind of ammo that the Home guard keep at home with their rifles, “readiness ammunition” or some sort.

Seeing as I have never held a rifle before (except 22LR) I did not notice the balance issues…until afterwards when I got to hold one of the instructor’s rifles. (A Sauer, competition rifle I assume)

stubbicatt
June 16, 2008, 08:40 AM
I've had my PTR91 for a couple of years now. I too made some relatively extensive modifications to it, including the Magpul PRS stock, heavy buffer, muzzle brake, Bill Springfield trigger job, Ambi safety from Williams Trigger Specialties, and the excellent Hensholdt scope. When I bought the rifle, it seemed to recoil excessively to me, so the muzzle brake was added. This is a great addition to the rifle as it keeps the muzzle on target, it doesn't drift at all. Unfortunately when I shoot from prone, it does kick up quite a bit of dust!

In its present configuration it is my favorite rifle, and gets the most range time, even if I don't shoot that many rounds through it. Even reloads aren't cheap anymore at nearly 30 cents apiece.

It is accurate, reliable, and just plain fun to shoot.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/PTR%2091/IMG_0367.jpg

One more thing. I have a subcaliber device for shooting 22 long rifles through it which make this rifle the hit of the range for new shooters and young people. I like it too in this configuration!

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/PTR%2091/IMG_0439.jpg

It is versatile, reliable, accurate and a whole lot of fun for what I use it for, plinking at distance. It has also accounted for a few prairie dogs over the years, including one on the run at 425 meters shooting the 308, not the 22 long rifle (I have witnesses! LOL).

taprackbang
June 16, 2008, 02:23 PM
The Prairie Dog sniper. Cool!

taprackbang
June 16, 2008, 02:34 PM
Here is my baby.

She is sweet...

taprackbang
June 16, 2008, 02:35 PM
Can you guys tell me about which scopes you have mounted on your G3? Was it difficult or easy?

Fixxxer
June 16, 2008, 06:51 PM
Z-Michigan

It is a Springfield Armory SAR8-Greek version

It was made by Hellenic Arms in Greece on HK Tooling.

All parts interchangeable.

THe PTR was above the SAR 8 in the store.

I chose the SAR 8.

But to each his own.

Z-Michigan
June 16, 2008, 09:45 PM
So, with all the owners on here, can anyone tell me where I can buy an "ejection port buffer"? I understand this is a small piece of plastic or rubber that keeps the case mouths from being dented and creased on the ejection path. I'm hoping I might be able to reload cases at least once or twice and not feel so wasteful shooting brass cased ammo.

Father Knows Best
June 16, 2008, 09:52 PM
Sorry, Z-Mich. I don't have a port buffer and don't know where to get one. My solution is simple -- just shoot milsurp ammo! It's not reloadable, anyway, due to the berdan primed cases.

stubbicatt
June 16, 2008, 10:19 PM
These days the port buffers are made of unobtanium. If you find one on gunbroker or hkpro dot com, it will run $125 - $150 or so. I find it to be worth the money spent, but then I reload. If I can find my empty cases, I can reload them, as the buffer prevents those gawdawful dents and creases. The buffer does nothing for that herculean Vorgrimmler fling of empty brass, other than direct it more downwards and towards the front. Still the empties land 10 yards or more away from your firing position.

The Hensholdt 4x scope which was designed for the rifle and which snaps easily into place using the HK claw type mounting system, is really quite a value these days. CDNN, Cheaper than Dirt, Copes Distributing, and others are online sources. The Cheaper than Dirt (maybe it is CDNN) have the older style scopes too, prior to the Fero-Z model which I have and just think the world of. Has a built in BDC, easy to use range finder, hold offs, and other neat features, including a sun filter and a provision for an illuminator for using the scope in low light conditions. It is usually sold in like new condition for less than $400.

Otherwise, get the sniper claw mount with the 30 mm rings, and 1 inch inserts. It can be used with some scopes, but eye relief becomes an issue using the 30mm claw mount, unless you can find the original Schmidt and Bender 6x or the Zeiss Diavari 6x scopes made for the setup. These too are excellent scopes. Presently I am using a 6x IOR scope in this ring set on a HK 93 clone. Even with the stock fully extended on the Magpul PRS scope, I still have eye relief issues in the prone position with that scope.

Father Knows Best
June 16, 2008, 10:41 PM
stubbicat, any leads on where I can find an original illuminator for my Hensoldt Fero-Z24? It's the one piece I'm missing. CTD and other places have some knock-offs available, but the price is way too high ($25) for the terrible quality. I'd gladly pay $25+ for an original, if I could find it.

Z-Michigan
June 16, 2008, 10:47 PM
Can you post a photo of the port buffer? A friend has access to a great machine shop and lots of materials - maybe he can custom make one for me.

W.E.G.
June 16, 2008, 10:50 PM
Can you post a photo of the port buffer?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/CETME/PortBuffer-1.jpg

W.E.G.
June 16, 2008, 10:52 PM
Valmet/AK port buffer from robertRTG.com

http://www.robertrtg.com/valmetbuffer1.jpg

marktx
June 17, 2008, 12:58 AM
I've had my PTR91 for a couple of years now.....it seemed to recoil excessively to me, so the muzzle brake was added. This is a great addition to the rifle as it keeps the muzzle on target, it doesn't drift at all. Unfortunately when I shoot from prone, it does kick up quite a bit of dust!......

What type of muzzle brake is that? Where can I find more about getting one? I assume it screws right on in place of the flash hider?

poet
June 17, 2008, 01:03 AM
SAR-8, lots of fun but forget about reloading the brass.

RLsnow
June 17, 2008, 01:17 AM
Well, this is what an AG3 looks like.

Don357
June 18, 2008, 12:27 AM
I have a CETME and have never had a problem with it. Can't even remember the first hiccup. I'm completely satisfied with it. Accuracy is good and I don't mind the weight, I was an M-60 gunner in the Army. I use it deer hunting. By the way, I only paid $300 for it and 300 rds of ammo!:neener:

MD_Willington
June 18, 2008, 12:40 AM
A buddies CETME was fun until it started ripping case heads off the cases... the rifle was filthy however...

stubbicatt
June 18, 2008, 08:56 AM
The muzzle brake is a Cooley Compensator sold by JPrifles dot com. I like it quite a lot, and had initially intended to run with the rifle in Tactical Class in 3 gun. I lost interest in that game, but I still have the rifle, and the brake makes it much less "bouncy" and stable on target. It is louder, however, which makes me less popular at the range.

Had I to do it over again, I think I would have purchased the tank brake from JPrifles.

HTH.

Mt.Traverse
March 20, 2009, 01:39 PM
Hello All, I hope you can help with some insignt in to a Failure to Eject issue with my new PTR 91-F. I'm a new member to the forum, been reading for a few months info gathering for my purchase. Bought a PTR 91-F. I had read the posts on this thread and also purchased 600 rds. of British surplus from JD Sales, Head stamped with Nato stamp, 94 and RG. Ammo got good reviews from others. Rifle will not eject. Rounds fire well and accurate at 100yrds but will not cycle the bolt. A few rounds have jammed with the following round, but most are stuck straight in the bolt head, easy to eject this round with the charging handle. I broke the rifle down and removed the carrier and bolt without ejecting the spent case and the case was just stuck there in the head, straight in firing position.

Does any one have any advice or action I can take to inproe my chance of these rounds cycling. PTR was not much help. They attached a nasty letter indicating they only recommend commercial and no surplus ammo. Which is in direct disagreement with the posts on this thread.

Any help for a new-be???? Thanks you.

SlamFire1
March 20, 2009, 01:54 PM
I don't have any British surplus, fired Austrailian without any problems.

If the British ammo uses a tar sealant around the bullet, than that could be your problem.

The chamber flutes of the HK91 action have to be clean. This action opens up so early and so violently (it is a delayed blowback) that without gas lubrication, rims would be ripped off cases . The gas lubrication is created by the flutes directing burnt propellant down the upper 2/3rds of the case, breaking the friction between the case and the chamber, leaving only the bottom one third of the case as a gas seal.

In this rifle, as in all semi automatic mechanisms, breech friction is bad.

So, you have to keep the flutes clean. I always use a chamber brush, which for the PTR-91 is a 45 caliber rifle brush. I clean the chamber each time I am done shooting any gas gun.

If the British ammo uses a tar sealant, the tar evaporates but condenses once everything cools down. That will clog the flutes.

Anyway, that is a guess as to what your problem might be.

Mt.Traverse
March 20, 2009, 02:38 PM
Thanks for your thoughts SlamFire1. The .45 rifle brush sounds invaluable. I read somewhere Britsh and the rest of the recommended list was made without tar, but who knows. I understand your thoughts. Keep'er clean. I have Breakfree Clean/Lub/Preserve. Any solvent you like better than the others? You mention the flutes, I understand the flutes importance. What about what I am callling the interior of the receiver? The travel or slide path of the bolt and carrier. I'm not sure I understand the difference between the breech, chamber and receiver? Anyway, the carrier bolt assembly seems smooth enough, easy to lightly oil, but the interior receiver seems rough.
Lastly, thanks again for your thoughts, please feel free to correct any of my thoughts and pass along any information an experienced person might think obvious....and...any ideas on tracking down some surplus with a proven track record in these rifles?

SlamFire1
March 20, 2009, 06:53 PM
I have Breakfree Clean/Lub/Preserve. Any solvent you like better than the others?

I use what is cheapest. As long as it dissolves powder residue, a powder solvent is a solvent. Break free is expensive. Lots of people have used it, so it must be good.

I use other stuff as a copper cleaner.

What about what I am callling the interior of the receiver? The travel or slide path of the bolt and carrier.

I wipe off all surfaces to remove as much powder residue. Then I go over it all with the powder solvent. That includes the locking recesses and the interior of the receiver. I like to get the surfaces clean. After wiping off the powder solvent, I apply lubricant to every moving part, locking part, and surface.

but the interior receiver seems rough.

Mine is quite smooth. I don't know why it would make a difference. Being a delayed blowback, the HK91 design should puke out everything.

nwilliams
March 21, 2009, 03:11 AM
I just picked up this Cetme today! Haven't shot it yet but I hope to next week. I just ordered an HK91 style wide handguard for it as well as an HK style collapsible stock. Once I get it outfitted with its new furniture I'll post a thread showing the before and after.

Right now though this is how it looks......
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/cetme1.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/cetme2.jpg

Rubber_Duck
March 21, 2009, 11:32 AM
nwilliams, nice find! :) I almost bought one of those at a gun show.

P.S.- Just curious, do the CETMEs take G3 mags? I've noticed CETME mags are curved whereas G3/HK91 mags are straight.

nwilliams
March 21, 2009, 03:05 PM
P.S.- Just curious, do the CETMEs take G3 mags? I've noticed CETME mags are curved whereas G3/HK91 mags are straight.

They do work in the Cetme but they're a bit tighter and harder to remove. I'll probably just stick with buying Cetme mags.

Mt.Traverse
March 21, 2009, 05:40 PM
Slamfire,
Thank you for your thoughts, very helpful.

I agree Breakfree is expensive. As well I not sure about the combo cleaner/ lub vs. two seperate products. I had some store credit and thought I try it. Sounds like any decent solvent works. And a good oil?

After speaking with PTR, they returned my call the same afternoon, they feel it is ammo. American Eagle and Reminton Core Loc cycle well in the same mag as the surplus, that rules out tar. Officially PTR recommends only commercial ammo and he guessed that this ammo was too low power. I was using British surplus RG 144gr. FMJ. If I remember correctly 7.63X51 has a lower chamber presure than .308???

Nwilliams,
Congrats on your purchase. Nice looking rifle! Let us know what ammo it likes, and doesn't.

blue1324
March 22, 2009, 06:41 PM
I've been having the same problem with FTE on a new PTR 91 F (just got it a few weeks ago). The first trip to the range I put about 40 or so rounds of PMC 308 through it without a single issue. The second trip (yesterday) I used some South African 308 that I purchased at a local gun show. The first few rounds went through fine then I started having FTEs. I would have to manually cycle the gun to get the rounds pulled out. After messing around with it for a while I went back to the PMC and she started running fine. I guess the South African ammo must be an issue, though I've seen post on other forums where other folks have not have any issues... Any thoughts? I hope it is not the rifle that is the problem (I was worried that my new toy was going to be a problem for a while on the range yesterday!)

Martyk
April 30, 2009, 12:02 AM
I believe the South African ammo uses an tar like sealer to keep it dry inside. This tar will gum up the chamber flutes and impede extraction. You should clean the chamber and fluting really good. It will be a PITA if it's gummed up but it'll keep things running smooth.

I spoke to the folks at PTR about this so they have seen it happen.

Here's my PTR. I recently had a set trigger put in by Williams. One sweet trigger. It breaks like glass at 2.5 pounds when set.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90550&d=1231287514

stubbicatt
April 30, 2009, 08:58 AM
MartyK: I'm pretty sure your port buffer isn't properly "hooked" on the rear of the ejection port.

Does your scope get in the way of the charging handle in the notch?

Martyk
April 30, 2009, 09:10 AM
I have very little clearance but yes it will clear when the charging handle is in the notch.

This model is a MSG91. It actually has a Picatinny rail welded onto the top of the receiver. If you look at the port buffer, I actually had to mill a slot into it in order to get it around the rail.

It seems to work pretty good but the rubber bumper gets knocked rearwards sometimes. But as long as I make sure it's in place after each shot, and I use military brass... it comes out virtually undamaged.

Wesson Smith
April 30, 2009, 12:53 PM
+1 on the bolt carrier reassembly being a pain in the ass, but so far so good with my PTR. Mine's as accurate as your gonna get with an MBR. As others have pointed out, this gun is not a target rifle, and was never intended for that purpose. I've had no malfunctions and am at approx. 600 rounds through it. Since I don't reload .308, the brass is not an issue - yet. Overall, I'm really happy with it.

Medusa
April 30, 2009, 03:26 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=94618&d=1237390678

Somewhat messier to clean, comparing to gas-piston rifles like M14 or G36 or Galil. But accurate enough, with milsurp it keeps it between 1-2 moa's @100m. And totally hates blanks. And needs a collapsible stock, in current setup it can be used to row a boat.

salvo
April 30, 2009, 08:21 PM
I have a H&K 91, 1981 Vintage. Been a great rifle and I have a bunch of H&K accessories for it, I think that is the strong point of this type of rifle it can go from a collapsible stocked short/medium range weapon to a scoped medium/long range weapon in about a minute. I had Williams Trigger Specialties do a set trigger job on it, that was the best mod a person can do to one of these rifles! My H&K is very brass friendly (Without a port buffer) I can reload the brass many times, you can see the flute marks but it has not caused any problems. I have been working up loads for about 6 months know and it can shoot consistent 1" to 3/4" groups at 100 yds with its favorite load so far. I just don't think I can coax any more out of it at this point, but who knows. I'm happy with 1" groups and I got it there at least.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/HK91%20308/IMG_3683.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/HK91%20308/IMG_3690.jpg

delta58
April 30, 2009, 08:50 PM
I'd like to find a bipod for my PTR-91, any suggestions?

Gelgoog
April 30, 2009, 09:13 PM
Anybody else hate the extra weight of the bipod? shooting it off hand its pretty difficult when the gun was already front heavy to begin with.

cameron.personal
May 4, 2009, 04:40 AM
http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo277/camz_pics/G%20and%20G/17%20inch/PTR91L.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo277/camz_pics/G%20and%20G/17%20inch/PTR91R.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo277/camz_pics/G%20and%20G/17%20inch/G3.jpg

SoCalShooter
May 17, 2009, 06:31 PM
If you put the Magpul PRS2 stock on it its kinda balances the rifle out. :)

**problem**
My rifle fails eject (have to manually clear the rifle)

I read the problem about the flutes and keeping them very clean, I have used winchester FMJ 147gr and surplus German ammo through the rifle, I have used a 20 round and 10 round magazine. I still get it to only shoot once, I am getting the SCORING on the brass casings like I should be and the indentation from the flutes is present, but I still have problems.

I am wondering if it is possibly that the flutes are not cut deeply enough to allow enough gas to escape for proper operation of the weapon.

I plan to remove the extractor and fire the weapon without the extractor present to see if enough gas is getting out to push the bolt back.

Please help me out, I have not fired the gun much probably about 100 rounds through it, I was also wondering if its possibly not worn in well enough yet.

salvo
May 17, 2009, 07:22 PM
SoCalShooter, what make is your 91?
I remember when the PTR first came out many had extraction problems, due to shallow flutes, they did correct the problem pretty quick though. Have you inspected the extractor?

SoCalShooter
May 17, 2009, 07:32 PM
PTR 91 I just got it in October of Last year, I have torn the weapon down inspected the bolt assembly, breach face and made sure the barrel is properly lined up and flush so that it does not create a bolt gap. I have removed the extractor and it appears to be fine as far as I can tell, the pin holding it is not damaged or warped in any way, What else should I be looking for?

salvo
May 17, 2009, 08:29 PM
Not sure, is the rim of the fired case damaged at all? If the case is sticking and the extractor is working I would think the rim would get thrashed pretty bad. If the bolt is not moving when fired all I could think of would be some type of obstruction in the gas system?

SoCalShooter
May 17, 2009, 10:34 PM
No damage to the rim of the casing, the extractor is grabbing the round but when I extract it manually it does not let the round fly out the chamber, the extractor holds the round, if I put in a spent round (drop a casing in the chamber and send the bolt home) it gets the entire assembly suck and I have to hold the bolt lever and smack it with a rubber mallet to free up the mechanism. If I put in a metal dummy round it pulls the round out but the extractor is still holding the round.

salvo
May 18, 2009, 01:27 AM
If I'm following you, the extractor is working but the ejector is not? I'm not sure what is causing the jamb?
You might give PTR a call, they will probably sort it out pretty quick.

stubbicatt
May 18, 2009, 07:02 PM
SoCalShooter, have you verified that the bolt is not opening upon firing by observing it to see? Without troubleshooting it, I wonder whether the ejector is riding too low to consistently engage the case head and push it out from under the extractor.

If you have shot tar sealed ammo, clean the chamber flutes really well, and try again with clean ammo, which does not have the sealant.

Have you verified bolt gap? If gap is too great, the rifle may not be generating enough force to open the action with sufficient oomph to extract and eject your casings.

Couple of thoughts.

SoCalShooter
May 18, 2009, 11:47 PM
I did verify it, I had a friends shoot the weapon and I stood next to him. And the bolt opened but locked up. Thanks for the help by the way.

I plan to take it to the range on Memorial day and run it without the extractor to test to see if the flutes are functioning the way they should. I also give PTR a call and have a chat with them and see what they come up with.

SoCalShooter
May 23, 2009, 10:45 PM
Problem still exists, not much gas getting over the casing and its not extracting, did the same thing with the extractor removed and it does not jam up like it should without an extractor.

Mt.Traverse
May 25, 2009, 01:28 AM
Around 2000 rounds thru now. British Radway Green and the South African will not cycle at all. Everything else I try is great.

Norinco China Sport 100%
S&B surplus 1983, perfect
S&B commercial, old and current production, perfect
Lake City in long range and reg. perfect
Federal, American Eagle, Winchester,Remington UMC, zero issues.
SoCo Ammo, they rock!

Radway and the South African will not cycle even after a deep clean. China Sport has not FTE once, and I have not cleaned it for the last 1000 rounds. I plan to not clean till FTE on a commercial round, just for fun. I want to see how reliable roller delayed blow back is. With the correct round it seems unstoppable. PTR guys feel it is just a low power round issue. Some of you have reported great succsess with Radway Green. I have the Portugees on order from Samco Arms. waiting 6 weeks so far, worsy shipping time of any vendor I know. I'll report how it cycles.


Interesting to note, my rifle, bought in January, 2009, has a HK surplus bolt carrier, 1983. Now PTR is shipping their new manufactured bolt carrier. I looked at a new one at a Denver Gun shop. No difference between new PTR stock and recoil spring vs. HK surplus stock/spring from Cheaper than Dirt.

Accuacy you ask... range is only 100 yards, but 2-4 inch groups laying barrel forearm on my pack and using shoulder.

Recoil is way less than a bolt .308 Has a nice solid feel and sound as it cycles correctly.

Fit and feel is personal. It fits me OK and feels better as I get to know the rifle.

Scope, in the future as I learn to use the iron sites. Any rcommendations for mil. scope, 400 to 600 yards???


See gun-deals.com for the best ammo deal updates. Cool site.

J99
June 1, 2009, 03:50 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=94618&d=1237390678

looks like a bipod I had on an airsoft gun a while back :D

anyway this is my PTR91

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm129/jung159/20090601_2.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm129/jung159/20090601_3.jpg

RX-178
June 1, 2009, 10:01 PM
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1870/image0001vcu.jpg

jackdanson
June 2, 2009, 01:09 AM
I'm considering getting a ptr91.. how bad does it beat up the brass? Is it reloadable?

J99
June 2, 2009, 08:19 AM
mine kills the brass half of them have dented necks you can get a port buffer for it though

flyboy1788
June 2, 2009, 12:53 PM
You ar lucky they returned it. I went to pick up my stolen MINT all matching dot 45 and the property room guy had it on the counter grinding off the receiver ring and the eagles on the matching stock destroying my valuable vet gun. Why? He looked me in the eye and said, 'Cuz he can.' What a dick.

You have to be kidding me. What did you do? anything? What a f*cking ****head. People like that give the police a bad name and it makes me sick. Talk about a power trip. F*cking loser

nwilliams
June 2, 2009, 03:16 PM
The Cetme I posted earlier turned out to be a complete piece of crap. It wouldn't cycle at all, after every round it would fte. I returned it to the store and they gave me a refund on it. So the Cetme is gone and done with, I will never buy another.

I did however buy one of the C93 Sporters and so far after about 800 rounds it has performed extremely well. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=447749&highlight=c93

Here it is newly fitted with a Hensoldt Fero Z24 Sniper Scope
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/c93Scoped-1.jpg

J99
June 6, 2009, 01:09 PM
has anyone tried the 20" fluted barrel on thier PTR?

I'm contemplating getting one in the near future

http://www.ptr91.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=91

bk1
June 6, 2009, 05:02 PM
I am also curious about that 20" barrel. Would you need a gunsmith to install it properly?

J99
June 6, 2009, 05:57 PM
^I can't find anything on how to remove the barrels :p will talk to a guy who works on HKs and find out what can be done hopefully within the week

it looks like you need a press to remove it though :p so not so easy lol

triage1998
June 24, 2009, 04:29 PM
lets bump this up with more pics



http://i42.tinypic.com/21kmtg6.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2307jq.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/jgp27m.jpg

TexasRifleman
June 24, 2009, 04:30 PM
LOVE the wood furniture. Really nice.

J99
June 24, 2009, 04:57 PM
pretty I think I want some wood stocks now :D

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