[Aaryq]

Howdy folks,

What's the purpose of a pistol-grip only shotgun? Is there anything about this that makes it better than a shotgun with a butt stock?

[mljdeckard]

To look cool, hammer your wrist and hand during firing, ruin your accuracy, and rob you of a striking weapon during CQB.

[ArmedBear]

AFAIK it's to make it easier to stash in a small space.

Mossberg sells one with a waterproof canister, for example. http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28&section=products

Some patrol cars may have a rack for one between the seats.

It's "better" if you need a shotgun, and due to its size, you can have that one stashed where you need it.:) Otherwise, see above.

[oneounceload]

The purpose of them is to get you to buy an aftermarket shoulder stock after you break your wrist......:D

[Aaryq]

So aside from compact storage there's no practical purpose for this? None whatsoever???

[oneounceload]

it's harder to control and properly point and hit your target - it places all the recoil into the web of your hand instead of your shoulder....so, IMO, no, there is no practicality....others may have a different view

[jakemccoy]

The recoil that goes into the hand is the biggest disadvantage. However, I have to say that answers to this type of thread depend on how you phrase the original post. I remember a thread started by a guy who was proud about his new purchase, a pistol grip shotgun. He posted pictures and relayed stories about his experience.

The responses were exactly the opposite of the posts here. People were patting him on the back and congratulating him and whatnot. The thread went on for several pages.

Eventually, I chimed in and said something to the effect of people laughing inside at him. Everybody came down on me like I as a bad guy. I was just telling the truth, like responders in this thread.

The thread was funny and ridiculous. Everybody was patting the guy on the back while admitting they owned no such gun. Hmmm…I wonder why.

Moral of the story is to take what you hear on the Internet with a grain of salt. I'd recommend you try out the gun for yourself if you can to see for yourself the crummy experience.

[Aaryq]

My only experience with the gun is second hand. The Chief of Police in his unbound wisdom issued my father a Mossberg Persuader (I think that's what it is..pistol grip only?). The department is a small town department. It oversees maybe 1000 people...my dad (at the time) used his gun 3 to 5 times a year...for skunks and feral cats...well with this persuader, he got a call to a skunk trap. Since the little town doesn't have animal control, that's his job too. Since most of them test positive for rabies, their killed when caught. My dad, who was in the marines for 20 years (so proper marksmanship is in his blood) came hom from work very upset, very stinky and with a black eye. He tried to shoot it right...he missed and the stinkin gun jumped up and bit him.

For those of you who have one of these, how do you shoot this thing properly?

[machinisttx]

For those of you who have one of these, how do you shoot this thing properly?

You can't. There just isn't a good way to hold the gun and actually aim it. Recovery time between shots is....slow. It's wasn't a good idea when someone thought it up..and it hasn't improved any with time.

[jakemccoy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoClSZyLWqc

Ooops... You should keep a pistol grip shotgun below your elbow. However, shooting from below the elbow ("shooting from the hip") would satisfy the definition of improper shooting as far as I'm concerned.

[akphule]

In my opinion, the appropriate use for a pistol grip only shotgun is breaching for a military or police tactical team. My government experience with this shows that a 12-14 inch barrel pistol grip shotgun, properly bungie slung on your kit, and ultilizing breaching loads is an excellent door opening tool for high speed contingencies. Outside that extemely specific and limited usage I see NO upside to a pistol grip only shotgun.

For those currently in Iraq, like myself, god speed and return safe home.

[SimpleIsGood229]

Originally posted by akphule:
For those currently in Iraq, like myself, God speed and return safe home.
Yes! Thank you so much for your service!

As for the shotguns, I agree. Totally agree. Oh, and welcome to THR!

[M2 Carbine]

What's the purpose of this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/IthacawithTLR2andBSA.jpg

I am a fan of the PGO shotgun.

I look at it like a 2 inch barrel 38.
You give up a little in accuracy and comfortable shooting for small size and portability.


I also have a Remington 870 but I find I mostly use the PGO Ithaca for such as a noise outside at night, driving over to check a neighbor's place, etc.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/870stockTLR2.jpg

Recently I surprised myself when I timed speed shooting three random targets at a time from 7-10 & 15 yards with my Ithaca. My times and accuracy were as good and sometimes better than shooting with a pistol.

Still when asked by a shooter if he should get a PGO shotgun I tell them No.
That's because IMO few people will take the time to learn to use the gun and practice with it.

[Coronach]

So aside from compact storage there's no practical purpose for this? None whatsoever???Compact storage and deployment from cramped quarters, or specialty uses like breaching (the latter two being more important than the former). Other than that, no, there is no practical purpose for it.

Is it possible to use one effectively? Of course. Humans are masters of adaptation. However, if you spent the amount of time and money one would spend developing proficiency with a PGO gun on use of a stocked shotgun, you would be much faster and more accurate with the stocked gun.

They're specialty weapons.

Mike

[ArmedBear]

Of course, there are many lightweight folding and telescoping stocks available for shotguns, too. It would seem that these offer the option of PGO use for close quarters, the advantage of compact storage, and still provide the ability to brace the gun against your shoulder.

I haven't cared for the cheek weld of folders I've seen, so they're not a substitute for a good buttstock. They're a decent compromise, though.

[La Pistoletta]

What about a pistol grip only shotgun + front vertical grip?

[Coronach]

Better, but the main problem is rapid and consistent alignment of the sights. That can only really be achieved with consistent placement of the sights in the same position relative to the eye, and THAT can only be achieved via something linking the weapon to the shoulder, like a stock. ;)

Subguns have a technique where you use a sling and push outwards against it, and it kindasorta does the same thing, but not as well. Better than nothing, though.

Mike

[M2 Carbine]

Better, but the main problem is rapid and consistent alignment of the sights. That can only really be achieved with consistent placement of the sights in the same position relative to the eye, and THAT can only be achieved via something linking the weapon to the shoulder, like a stock.
Or in low light or darkness a (good) laser can be used.:)

Using such as the Streamlight TLR-2 laser/light fast, accurate hits from the hip (with the PGO) are so easy it's almost cheating.

#4 and 00 Buckshot from 17 yards.
The two slug groups shot from 26 yards.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/IthacaTLR2BGtarget.jpg

[Coronach]

The main problem is rapid and consistent alignment of the sights. However, it is not the only problem. Using the laser makes sight alignment a non-issue, kindasorta, but you still need to be able to index the gun rapidly and consistently, and that means putting it to the same place at the same angle, each time, without thinking about it or reading and reacting to the sights (or a dot). Easy to do with a gun attached to your shoulder, harder to do with one that is 100% handheld.

While I'm sure that the laser does cut down times considerably, I bet that, given equal skill and training, a stocked SG would still be faster (though I bet a skilled user with a PGO and a laser would be pretty darned quick).

Mike

[M2 Carbine]

Yes Coronach I agree with what you say, but it goes back to what I said earlier.
I think of the PGO shotgun as the 2 inch 38 J Frame of shotguns.
Given the choice at the time I needed it, I'd rather have a 6 inch S&W K Frame in my hand than the 2 inch J Frame but chances are because (for my use) the the 2 inch gun will be what I will have in my pocket, that's what I'll have to use.

Same with the shotguns.
If actually needed, in most cases I'd probably rather have the full stock 870 in my hands than the PGO Ithaca. Most likely though I will be holding the Ithaca, so like the 2 inch pistol I try and stay fairly proficient with the Ithaca.



Speaking of the 2 inch J Frame. This week I put up a 2x2 foot 1/4 inch steel plate and spray painted a 16 inch wide silhouette on it.
Standing, two hands or one hand right and left, at 55 yards, my 2 inch Model 60 seldom misses the silhouette.
Now that's fun shooting.:D

[jakemccoy]

The laser seems like a cool option. However, there's something unsettling about relying on an electronic gadget. It may work well for others; it's just not for me. In contrast, point shooting a shouldered shotgun with a butt stock can be highly accurate and super fast, and no electronics are required for the accuracy (but can be used if desired).

[RP88]

it is mainly used for making the gun compact so that it can be stored.

it is a good idea if you have a vertical foregrip; it allows you to hang onto it better and relieve the pressure on your trigger hand some, and keep a good hold on it. I tried one once. Shot one 00BK shell, and quickly switched back the the shoulder stock. Even though I somewhat handled it fine, it is very unwieldy and awkward.

The way to shoot it is to pretty much not take it higher than the height that your elbow is at when bent at a 90-degree angle. Otherwise, it's going to jam back, fly out of your hand. Don't ever try to aim it on the shoulder. You'll lose some teeth.

[M2 Carbine]

jakemccoy
The laser seems like a cool option. However, there's something unsettling about relying on an electronic gadget. It may work well for others; it's just not for me. In contrast, point shooting a shouldered shotgun with a butt stock can be highly accurate and super fast, and no electronics are required for the accuracy (but can be used if desired

Yes, "there's something unsettling about relying on an electronic gadget".
The helicopter (Bell 407) I was flying before I retired had a computer and electronic sensors controlling my power. During the checkout I spent four days mostly learning how to REGAIN CONTROL when the electronic junk failed. On the early 407 you had just a few seconds to override the computer and get control so you could manually control the turbine engine, which in itself was a chore. :uhoh: :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/407_on_EB160.jpg

Anything mechanical or electronic can fail at any time.
I do a lot of laser practice, average 3 evenings a week (home range).
I've never had a (good) laser to fail in any way. I can't say the same for the guns or ammo.
IMO I think the (good) lasers are every bit as reliable as most guns that they are mounted on.

But, in any case, if the laser were to fail then you are no worse off than the shooter that isn't using a laser on his PGO or full stock shotgun.:)

[PTK]

I tend to bring mine out in the woods for getting a bear to stop eating my face or a friend's face if it came right down to it. :)

It just packs easier.

[mbt2001]

If there wasn't a stupid 18" NFA rule, pistol grips would be a lot more "usuable".

Witness below:

http://www.summitgunbroker.com/image/32762461.jpg

[jesse485]

On a 12 gauge, they may not make much sense, but on these you can get portability & ability to use the sights in a pinch:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/jesse485/AKfold.jpg
I wonder if a small gauge shotgun would be controllable with a PGO while looking through the sights? Maybe a 28 or .410 bore?

[Titan6]

I used one to shoot a few rounds of skeet once, merely to make a point. I averaged about 12 out of 25. Honestly I was very surprised it did so well.

Seems obvious but Laser + Stock = Faster than... Laser + PGO

[RioShooter]

I've always wanted to try a PGO and had a chance two days ago. A guy at the range had a Mossberg 20 ga. PGO. He was shooting it from the hip and eye level. He gave me a box of 000 buck, and said "try it".

At 15' from the hip I hit the COM on a paper target. I then tried it on a few bowling pins from about 30'. I concentrated on pushing on the grip and the forend. I hit all three pins, but I really didn't feel comfortable shooting from that stance. I can't imagine shooting a 12 ga. like that.

A friend of mine had a tooth knocked-out shooting a PGO at a rattlesnake.

So from my extensive research :neener:, I could see using the POG as a CQC weapon (from the hip), but nothing else for me.