[markos]

The ultimate newbie here. Until today, I had never shot a gun. However, since I expect civilization to collapse in the next couple of years, I figure I better get cracking on learning. I knew I would only like the classics, so I bought a revolver (SP101 2 1/4") and a lever gun (336). I took the 101 to the range today. Now, I have read up so much on safety, shooting, ammo, stances, etc., that I felt like I was already an expert and this would be a piece of cake. Turns out it not quite as easy to put the bullet through the bullseye as I thought.:eek:

I printed a target on regular paper and was shooting from 10 yards. I shot about 80 rounds of mixed 38/357, and when I was done, there were only 39 holes in the paper. So either I had magic, healing paper, or I need to practice some more.

The good news is that it was lots of fun, and the gun performed beautifully. I am sure that when I take the lever gun out next week, I will hit nothing but bulleyes from 100 yards. That is right, isn't it????:p

[3pairs12]

Welcome to thr. The important thing is that you had fun, you may have had a couple go through the same holes but very few. I wouldn't expect to shoot all bullseyes at 100 yards with the 336. Lever guns can be picky on ammo that works best for them. However you got yourself 2 great guns keep up the practice have fun and be safe.

[mljdeckard]

Don't freak out.

This is something that not only takes time to learn, it requires continued training to stay on top of.

What I would recommend, if look toward getting a .22 revolver in a similar configuration to your Ruger. This will allow you to practice until your hand gets tired, rather than your wallet.

And if you're REALLY facing the end of the world RIGHT NOW, you'll want bigger guns than the ones you just bought.

[pinkymingeo]

That's not bad at all for first time out. Takes a lot of practice. If I were you I'd forget the 357 for a while. Stick with 38's. If you can get your hands on a rest, try it. You'll get a much better feel for the correct sight alignment.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Snubnose revolvers, no matter what the make (even a "shooter's gun" like the Ruger) are one of the hardest types of handguns to shoot well. I would personally not start out a beginner on one.

[bluto]

Welcome to the forums!

Actually, for the first time shooting a handgun, with no instruction, 50% at 10 yards isn't that bad. I always remember the phrase about handgun mastery:
"It's simple, but it ain't easy."

Improving your skills is a big part of the fun. It is a skill that you never stop working on. You'll get a lot of sound advice here, but practice and one-on-one instruction are the two things that'll help the most.

I'll offer a non-technical tip that doesn't require any practice: move your target in to 7 yards or closer until you're hitting the paper every time.

Shoot safely and have fun.

[another okie]

Check with local ranges and the NRA to see if there is a basic marksmanship and gun safety course near you.

[Brasso]

Next time, move the target up to 7 yards. Then, after firing a cylinder full, keep a few empties in there along with some live rounds. Turn the cylinder and close it without looking. Don't do it every other round or you'll know which one's up next. Use 2 live rounds mixed with 4 empties. This will tell you what you're doing wrong pretty darn quick. It may actually be embarrassing to yourself at first to see how bad you're flinching, but it will also improve your shooting drastically in fairly short order. It's probably the best revolver training there is.

And stick to .38 Specials. There's no need for mags in a snubby.

[goon]

Shooting a handgun is a notoriously difficult thing to learn.
I taught my girlfriend how to do it - it was doubly hard with her because she's right handed and left eye dominant. I eventually gave up on trying to correct her form and told her to just do whatever felt comfortable. It took about a year's worth of every other weekend range trips for her to get comfortable with a handgun.
Long story short, she made me proud yesterday and managed a hand sized group at 25 yards from a gun she'd never shot before - she complained about the recoil too but she still shot well. Then she took my buddy's Ruger 22/45 and shot a few good groups with it at that range.
I agree with the others who suggest sticking with the .38 loads. It isn't really necessary to start with a .22 but that would provide you with cheap practice. If you can afford one, go for it.
You'll also probably find that shooting the rifle will be a lot easier to make decent hits at.
The 30-30 isn't a terrible round to shoot but it will have some recoil. Make sure you keep the butt tight against your shoulder when you shoot it. You may want to start at 50 yards and move back to 100 yards after you've got an idea of what you need to do to make hits. I'd also suggest a .22 rifle if you can afford it. You can get a new one for about $130 at walmart. Even if you couldn't, I'd never be without one.

[Nate C.]

Don't worry. It'll come with practice.

If you can invest the time/money, sign up for a defensive handgun class, before you deeply ingrain any bad habits.

If that is not an option, find yourself a trusted range buddy who has some knowledge/experience.

[Skofnung]

It is not easy like in the movies is it?

Handguns are tough to shoot well without significant practice.

Keep at it, and you will do well. I second the notion that a .22 would be money well spent.

[danweasel]

My advice? Well I am glad you asked. Honestly, just buy as 1911. It's a classic and it is quite a bit easier to hit stuff with. Or be realistic, if the world is ending why not buy an AK-47 (or any other modern [is an AK modern?] rifle?) Maybe a hi-cap pistol too. Those guns you have are "classics" for a reason.

Function over fashion.

[Elvishead]

Bring it into 5 yards, and progress from there. You started out to far, and wasted ammo doing so.

Get some full silhouettes, and pull the target in every time you spent your rounds to check your groups. Then take a marker and mark the rounds that you shot, and don't be afraid to by 10-15 targets and change them more often, because target are almost free compared to the price of ammo.

Also start out dry firing on the target, and don't anticipate the recoil.

Take your time and have fun.

[Pat Cannon]

I own a 2 1/4" SP101 and I'm really happy with it. But a short revolver's not the easiest gun to shoot accurately and quickly. So don't feel bad; when you master this gun you'll find most any other gun easy. Especially a rifle!

I was disappointed with my accuracy with the SP101 at first, compared with how I'd done with a 1911, but I've come a long way in the last couple years with my SP and its big brother, a 3" GP100. Now I beat some (well, a few) of the guys with their 1911s and Glocks at IDPA and steel matches. Especially when they 'fine tune' their guns and start getting a lot of jams.

Oh, and I've been hearing folks talk seriously about the imminent collapse of civilization for at least forty years, so you probably will have time to get your practice in. :)

[machinisttx]

I own a SP101 and I would NEVER start anyone out shooting it. I'd start them on one of the following three, most likely #1.

#1 Ruger 22/45(.22 long rifle)
#2 CZ75 (9mm)
#3 S&W M19 with 6" barrel

.22 long rifle is cheap to practice with, has very little recoil, and just plain easy to shoot.

[c.r.a.]

I understand exactly what you're going through.

some of the best aids that I have found (most already mentioned above):

randomly mix a couple of snap caps or empty rounds in the cylinder, when you hit the "dead" rounds, you will immediately see any flinch or flaw in your trigger control.

Sitting at home, using snapcaps and dryfiring exercises, working on trigger control, grip, and focusing on the front sight. (I double check and triple check that I am using dummy rounds, that one reason i use snap caps instead of dead/empty brass) My snapcaps are red, so it's easy to tell at a glance.

Moving the target in closer (7 yrd is nice. but heck, if you need/want to move it in closer, go ahead and do so.) I think it helps build confidence and it's easier to see where each bullet is hitting. This is suppose to be fun. i know i find it frustrating when I fire 6 shots at a target and can only account for one or two.

I aslo like shooting a limited number of bullets at each target. that way i can easily account for all my shots. I rarely shoot more than 17 shots at a single target, usually just six. (i shoot at "bullsey" style targes)

by no means am I an expert shooter. however, after using the above techniqes i have seen considerable improvement with my accuracy. I shot my handguns this weekend and this was the first time that at 15 yards i was able to account for all shots at a half dozen 8 inch targets, using three different calibers. by no means is this the most impressive shooting, but it is definately an improvement for me. I think i can now begin spending more time shooting at 15 yrds, moving up from 7. (this was with 4 inch to 6.5 inch barreld handguns. I don't know that i'm ready to try it with my snubnose yet).

Cangratulations on the new purchases,
c.r.a

[foghornl]

I had magic, healing paper

Yeah, when I first started shooting again, I must have bought a bunch of targets printed on that paper... :evil: :D

All you need is some more 'trigger time', and even some 'dry-fire' practice. Your groups WILL tighten up as you go.

Snubby-length guns are harder to shoot accurately, too. Not that the snubby is inherently less accurate; the short sighting radius greatly amplifies aiming errors over the longer (4"+) barrels.

F'rinstance, I have a "Sheriff's Model" .357 Vaquero..about a 3-5/8" barrel, and a 50th Year .357 Blackhawk with the 4-5/8" barrel. I find that at the longer ranges (for me!) of 15 Yds+, I hit better with the Blackhawk.

As my college Public Speaking instructor was fond of saying...

"Practice....Practice....Practice"

[spwenger]

randomly mix a couple of snap caps or empty rounds in the cylinder, when you hit the "dead" rounds, you will immediately see any flinch or flaw in your trigger control.
This is known as a ball-and dummy drill. Your SP101 is a rugged gun and you can simply leave an occasional chamber (or two or three) unloaded, then, with eyes diverted, spin the cylinder before pressing the action closed. The purpose of this drill is to allow you to see if you are anticipating the shot (pressing the muzzle forward) or jerking the trigger when the hammer comes down on an empty chamber, as opposed to a live round. Training this way should help you develop a smooth and consistent trigger stroke.

Two more comments:

1. My experience as an instructor is that many female shooters like the factory grip on the SP101 but it doesn't fit my hand well enough to stabilize the gun for a consistent recoil arc (the gun is actually in recoil by the time the bullet leaves the barrel). I keep a boot grip from Badger Custom Grips (http://www.badgercustomgrips.com/ruger_pistol_grips.php?page=1) available for when I want to shoot my SP101, purchased as a teaching gun, myself.

2. On the other hand, the 14-pound factory main spring is way too heavy for those same shooters. When I purchased an SP101, I found that I had to go to a nine-pound main spring from Wolff Gunsprings (http://gunsprings.com/Revolver/Ruger_Rv.html#RDA), round the edges of the face of the trigger and polish off the burrs on the stamped main-spring strut and trigger link before I had a gun that I considered useable by a new, female shooter. Those same minor modifications would be equally useful to a male shooter. Unless you are skilled in this stuff, it would probably be wisest to use a professional gunsmith for this work.

[markos]

lots of great advice guys, thanks. I had already decided to stick to 38's for the time being. I mostly just wanted to see how much more of a kick the 357's had (and they do have considerably more kick).

I plan on taking the lever gun and revolver back to the range next weekend and I will try out some of the recommendations. If I get a noticeable improvement, I might post a picture of my target. Or maybe I will just take a stick and poke holes around the bullseye and post it.:D

Anybody have advice on lever gun shooting?

As far as getting more modern guns, I don't think so. The old school guns just feel right to me, so I will stick with them.

[GRIZ22]

Stick with 38's.

That's the beauty of a 357. Start with 148 wadcutters or a standard pressure 158 gr load. Work up from there (+P, 357).

I printed a target on regular paper and was shooting from 10 yards. I shot about 80 rounds of mixed 38/357, and when I was done, there were only 39 holes in the paper.

That's really not bad on an 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper for a first time. Spring for some larger targets and you'll be able to see where the rest of the rounds go. A 2 1/4 " barrel is difficult to shoot and even more difficult to start with but it's doable. Try to get some instruction to find out what you're doing wrong. Dry firing (after double checking the gun is empty) is also easy with a revolver and is cheap worthwhile practice.

I am sure that when I take the lever gun out next week, I will hit nothing but bulleyes from 100 yards. That is right, isn't it????

That's a 30-30 right? Look for some cowboy loads. They're loaded with lead bullets to around 1000 fps and will help you get used to the gun without any recoil issues. Start at 25yds and work out from there.

[Brian Dale]

Anybody have advice on lever gun shooting?Sure: try to keep the butt of the rifle in place (in the "pocket" formed between your shoulder and chest muscles when you raise your elbow) while you operate the lever. The rifle doesn't have to come off your shoulder between shots. As with any rifle, pull the butt stock firmly into place while you squeeze the trigger. Don't worry if the trigger of your 336 flops around a bit without pressure on it; I think that almost all 336 triggers do that.

Hold the lever all the way closed with your firing hand while you squeeze the trigger. On my 336, there's a small button that must be pressed in by the lever for the rifle to fire. This prevents the rifle from firing if the rifle is "out of battery"--a fancy phrase meaning that the bolt is not fully closed, which would let the cartridge case burst sideways and cause many, very bad things to happen, very fast. Don't worry about it; it's not going to happen. I just thought that I should describe why that little button is part of the design.

Also, try not to catch any fingers or the web of your hand between lever and stock when you close the lever. You can probably guess how I know this. ;)

As far as getting more modern guns, I don't think so. The old school guns just feel right to me, so I will stick with them.That's exactly the right approach: shoot those guns until each of them is an extension of your body. Oh, and get a .22 as soon as you're conveniently able to do so. You'll be happy about it later.

[Logan5]

Eventually you'll probably want to consider one of the reciever mounted peep sights for the 336. The stock semi-buckhorn rear is rugged, traditional, steeped in history, and suchlike, but it does shorten your sight radius unnecessarily, and it can be hard to maintain the degree of consistency in sight picture that you'd find with an aperture.

[ArchAngelCD]

Welcome to the forum...

Hitting that size paper with half the rounds the first time out isn't bad for a first time snub nose revolver shooter. The first time I shot a snub nose I was either 10 or 15 yards out and shot 5 rounds at the paper. I walked up to the paper to see how close the holes were and got a big shock, not one hole in the paper. After many many range trips and rounds sent downrange I do much better now and so will you. Stick to it and you will be fine...

Here is a photo of a target I shot a while back.
It's 5 rounds from a S&W M638 two handed unsupported from 10 yards out.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/ArchAngelCD/Jframetarget10.jpg

[Jamie C.]

I am sure that when I take the lever gun out next week, I will hit nothing but bulleyes from 100 yards. That is right, isn't it????

How 'bout you just make sure everybody is behind you before you start shooting? ;):D:evil:

But seriously, welcome to the forum, and good luck with your shooting. You'll be bagging 10-rings on a regular basis before you know it.


J.C.

[jackdanson]

welcome, better than my first time out with a pistol. I was shooting a snubby .38 at 25 yards....... the results were obvious, about 5 hits out of 35 on an 8 inch target. Have fun, follow the advice given here, practice with .38's. Also don't overdo it. I've found that shooting too many pistol rounds in a row can cause fatigue, which can cause flinching. I always shoot a mag or 2 through my pistol then switch to my rifle for a few minutes. Going back and forth helps me with my pistol work, try it. If it isn't going well take a break for a few minutes and continue, shooting frustrated never works.

And dang archangel that is sweet, I couldn't do that on my best day... quit showing off!

[Brian Dale]

Jack, The reason that Al Gore invented the Internet for us was specifically so that we could show off. ;)

[Frank Ettin]

IME, the first principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth, press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving until the shot breaks. Maintain your focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."

BY keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seem steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger. Of course the gun will wobble some on the target. Try not to worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target.

Also, work on follow through. Be aware of where on the target the front sight is as the shot breaks and watch the front sight lift off that point as the gun recoils – all the time maintaining focus on the front sight.

Also, while practice in very important, remember that practice doesn’t make perfect. It’s “PERFECT practice makes perfect.” More frequent practice shooting fewer rounds, but concentrating hard on what you’re doing, will be more productive than less frequent, higher round count practice.

Practice deliberately, making every shot count, to program good habits and muscle memory. Dry practice is very helpful. You just want to triple check that the gun is not loaded, and there should be no ammunition anywhere around. When engaging in dry practice, religiously follow Rule 2 - Never Let Your Muzzle Cover Anything You Are Not Willing To Destroy." As you dry fire, you want to reach the point where you can't see any movement of the sight as the sear releases and the hammer falls.

Finally, some instruction is always a good idea. I try to take classes from time to time; and I always learn something new.

Think: front sight, press, surprise.

[ArchAngelCD]

And dang archangel that is sweet, I couldn't do that on my best day... quit showing off!
Oh come on... what good is shooting well unless you can show off?? LOL

Actually, I know you are joking but I hope no one really took it that way. I was just trying to illustrate how someone (me) can go from missing the entire paper with all 5 shots to a fairly decent 5 shot group.

I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned this yet but I forgot to add you should use snap-caps for practice at home. When you use snap-caps you can easily see what you are doing wrong because there is no recoil to mask the movement of the revolver. You can pull the trigger 100 or more times in a night during commercials while watching TV. After 600-1000 or more trigger pulls you will develop good trigger skills. The added benefit is you will smooth out your trigger because of all the pulls!!! That's a win-win situation in my book. I wore out a set of snap-caps practicing.

[Elvishead]

Or maybe I will just take a stick and poke holes around the bullseye and post it.

That's what most people do. It's the Internet!:scrutiny:

[Quoheleth]

Well, if you have the SP101 that will shoot DA or SA, practice a little shooting SA (single action - cocking it for each shot). That will let you become more familiar with the recoil pattern without having to worry about the DA (double action)'s lengthy and harder pull. The SA work will allow you to gain confidence, plus it will help conserve ammo a bit - it's slower shooting than double action.

After a couple cylinders full of SA shooting, try DA. That is where dry-firing will really pay off.

I might recommend trying to "stack" your trigger pull. At home, CYLINDERS CONFIRMED TO BE EMPTY or WITH SNAP CAPS, practice this. Pull the trigger back slowly, and you'll feel the trigger move, the cylinder turn, and hear a slight "click" as the cylinder is locked into place with the cam. Stop pulling the trigger at that point. Now, just a light pull will fire the gun. Continue your trigger squeeze when your sight picture is what you want. BANG.

I shoot my Rugers this way. It takes a little practice, and honestly I use my off-hand thumb as a bumper for my trigger finger. When my trigger finger bumps the thumb, I know I'm close...easy...gentle...BANG. It works for me.

Last thing: sight picture. Focus HARD on that front sight. Make sure the top is flush with the top of the rear sight, centered in the rear sight. With the short sight radius, that crystal-clear sight picture is necessary.

Well...one more last thing. Take your time. There are no races at this point in how fast you gotta empty your gun. Shoot slowly and deliberately. Focus on each part: front sight, rear sight, target, trigger pull.

AND HAVE FUN!!!

Q

[22-rimfire]

It is definitiely not as easy as it looks or as presented in movies or TV. I always think about Mel Gibson shooting his 9mm or the boys from Dirty HarryII or III (the one with the motorcycle cops) with their 357's and of course Harry with his 44's..

A snubbie is not a good choice to learn to shoot with. But a steel framed one is much better than one of the lightweights. A 22LR would be much better.

I took my CCW class and shot a new revolver to qualify, a 3" GP100 with full 357 mag loads. I hadn't even shot the revolver prior to shooting my targets. I passed easily, but my shooting was not as good as I expected based on shooting longer barreled 357's. You wouldn't have passed.

Keep shooting. I'd use regular 38spl rounds until you get used to the gun. Shoot single action most of the time to learn to basics. Double action shooting is much harder to master even at close ranges.

[lions]

I am sure that when I take the lever gun out next week, I will hit nothing but bulleyes from 100 yards.

That’s a good goal, way to aim high! I love enthusiasm, optimism, and sarcasm! Welcome to THR and to shooting!

[markos]

As promised, a report on my second range trip, now new and improved with photos.

Well I said, all bullseyes with my 336.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2597952881_f5407ba798_b.jpg

Ok, it was only at 25 yards, but I was still pretty happy. I wasn't as happy at 50 yards.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/2597953181_4d6166831f_b.jpg

I figured I would just embarass myself at 100 yards, so I didn't even try. And finally, my revolver at 10 yards. I followed your advice and it went much better. 28 out of 30 on the paper and my accuracy improved significantly.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/2598785632_8c9dc225f8_b.jpg

Now for the bad part of the trip. I am going to a state range, so there is no rangemaster. The shooters have to police themselves. Until the end of this last trip, it seemed to work very well. We called a break and went down the line with everyone yelling clear. People (including me) headed towards their targets. I was about half-way there when some ***hole at a 100 yard station took a shot. Scared the crap out of lot of people and really caused an uproar.

[Brian Dale]

Well done, and thanks for posting pics.

It's a shame that a moron went to the range when you were there. I imagine that the other shooters let him know how unappreciated his behavior was.

[Sunray]

A 2.25" revolver isn't the best thing for an FNG, but that's what you have. How's it feel in your hand? The fit to your hand is critical. If you can't easily reach the trigger with no stress to your hand, you won't be able to shoot it well. That applies to everybody.
Too small can be fixed with a change of grips. Too large can be, sometimes, but not always.
Have a trigger job done(all new firearms need one due to frivolous law suits), quit mixing the ammo(you'll have to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your revolver shoots best) and go take some lessons. Get some upper body toning exercise too. Holding 25 ounces(1.5 lbs) out on the end of your hand isn't something anybody does regularly and it takes upper body tone.
Oh and civilization won't be coming to an end any time soon. Despite that gas prices are hurting the economy severely.