[bratch]

I'd like to get an AR for varmints ('yotes and maybe p-dogs).

Most dedicated varmint rigs I've seen have been 24" barrels. I have an 18" SPR with a WOA barrel. This rifle will eventually wear a Leupold Mark 4 2.5x8.

What would I be giving up using the 18" upper versus a 24"?

[Jimmie]

A little velocity. Plenty of guys use 16" barrels on pdogs. I really like my 18" barrel.

[dakotasin]

my 16" ar's are for p-dogs, and i have had plenty of success beyond 600 yards.

[Art Eatman]

I don't see a whole heckuva lot of "loss" for prairie dogs to 300 yards, anyway. I'm thinking of first-shot hits, here, after you have the wind doped out. Unless you're using a rangefinder, first-shot hits beyond 300 are gonna be as much luck as anything else.

No matter what barrel length, at around 400 yards you're having to deal with around two feet of drop, give or take a little.

[Jimmie]

Also.... a 24" barrel adds LOTS of weight. So one big thing you lose with a 18" barrel is a few pounds, especially if you're comparing yours to a 24" HBAR or Bull.

[Larry Ashcraft]

Bratch, take a look at this site: http://www.insightshootingsystemsinc.com

Lee Mosher builds some of the most accurate ARs out there, and you can specify barrel length and caliber.

[RubenZ]

This is mine and like Jimmie said, its one heavy SOB!!! I'm looking to get it fluted some day to reduce weight. It's a RRA Varmint 24".

http://www.rubenzamora.com/Files/arvarmint.JPG

[Ghost Tracker]

I have a 18" (1-in-8 twist) Wilson Stainless Match Bull Barrel on my RRA Varmint upper. It has enough diameter (mass) for stability...but isn't quite as heavy as the 24". I like the compromise & don't see my shooting buddies with any appreciable "advantage" in effective range or accuracy.

[bratch]

New concern...

The SPR is a 1/7. I'm going to be limited to 55 gr+.

What weight is everyone shooting for P-dogs and yotes?

[koja48]

55-grainers out of a 1"/9" . . .

[dakotasin]

55's out of one, 60's out of the other.

[blitzen]

prairie dogs at beyond 600 yards with a 16 inch ar. I'm calling BS on that one if no one else will. I was born on Tuesday, but not last Tuesday.

[dakotasin]

why? once you get the drop worked up it really isn't difficult. i know plenty of folks that have done it at further distances than i...

shooting 400-600 yards isn't that big of an accomplishment.

this one will blow you away: i regularly and routinely shoot over 1000 yards w/ the ho-hum 308 win, and have little difficulty hitting targets out there.

[Art Eatman]

blitzen, folks who hit stuff at 600 and 1,000 yards have more going for them than just an accurate rifle. Spotting scopes, portable bench rests, laser range finders, anemometers--I've been sorta awestruck by what I've seen for gear.

Now, a guy who says he just walks outside, sees a prairie dog at "about 600 yards" and kills it on the first shot from some casual field-position hold? I'm dubious.

But barrel length doesn't have all that much to do with the hitting, compared to all the other factors involved.

:), Art

[koja48]

Amen . . . and generally a lot of time behind the trigger on his or her tool of choice.

[tuck2]

Go to www.benchcentral.com to see what it takes to win a 1000 yard shoot. The prairie dogs make about a 3 by 10 inch target -- good luck

[redneck2]

I've got three friends that have killed PD's at 1,000 yards +. Now, they didn't do it on the first shot. Never the less, it was done. The 1k shots were not taken with a typical AR. Two used custom bolt action 6.5-06's and one used a Styer .308.

Remember, you're not limited to five shots. If you miss, you either shoot again or pick another critter. Typically there are dozens or hundreds of PD's to choose from.

I'm going later summer and taking 3k to 5k rounds for three guys. I'm taking a 7mm Mag for the 1k, along with a varminter AR, a 22-250, and a 25-06.

If you go to the Varmint Hunter's Assn. website, you can get info on the 1,000 Yard Club. I'd suggest you not call the members there liars.

[RubenZ]

I'd suggest you not call the members there liars.

Why? they'll beat you up on the internet :) lol

[redneck2]

There may be one that lives within 1,000 yards of you...

FWIW...saw an article a few years ago when fast twist AR's were just coming out. He was putting three consecutive shots into an area covered with a dollar bill. IIRC the range was 600 yards.

[richardsoll]

i have heard that the 20-20-20 has been done with an ar. 20 rounds, 20 seconds, in a 20 inch circle, at 1000 yds. now thats impresive!

[blitzen]

Guess I was thinking of a cold bore shot at a pd at 600 yards proned out over a day pack. It's a ways but if you have the gear and the time on the trigger, I could see it.

[Art Eatman]

richardsoll, I've read of that as a challenge, but it looks to me as though the main problem would be the time for target reacquisition and setting the crosshairs in place. No such thing as zero recoil; just the bolt travel will cause some disturbance of the sight picture.

A good challenge, of course; I'm just dubious that it has been met.

[dakotasin]

Guess I was thinking of a cold bore shot at a pd at 600 yards proned out over a day pack.


a cold bore on a prairie dog town is a rare sight to see...

you are unlikely to be happy proned out on a dog town - very well may get ate up w/ chiggers. besides, most dog shoots are all day affairs, and laying on your belly and crawling around all day would suck. as for the trigger time... 300 shots per day is easily achievable. it only takes 2 or 3 dog shoots to take an average shooter and turn him into a great shot. and if you really want to understand ballistics, a dog town is the place to do it. you will learn more about your accuracy, your rifle's capabilities, and ballistics in a single dog shoot than you will learn in a year of 1-2 times/week range visits.

[richardsoll]

I read about it in, i belive, outdoor life. I went searching for the mag but could not find it. But it went something like this: It was a artical called AR-americas rifle, and it talked about why ar's are becomeing so popular. in part of the artical it was talking about how versitile they are and gave the name of a man, not sure who it was, that has acoplished the 20-20-20 with an ar. wish i could find the artical to give names and facts.

[richardsoll]

Ok, I found the article, outdoor life, "The worlds most versitile rifle" by michael bane. and it reads

"Just last year precision-rifle instructor and ace gun smith Dave Lauck achieved Col. Cooper's equivalent of running a 3-minute mile-the 20-20-20 callenge. Thats putting 20 shots into a 20-inch circle in 20 seconds or less...at 1,000 yards. Lauck achieved this amazing milestone with his own custome-built AR."

[blitzen]

Dakotasin, Didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just looking at a bottle of Famous Grouse thinking , wow, thats about the size of a big prairie dog. At 600 I thought it would be safe. I was also thinking of shooting a 20 inch m16A2 at 500 meters with iron sights at a real big silhouette with iron sights. I guess things have evolved a little.
What's the best time of year to be there for shooting prarrie dogs? Do you need a guide??

[redneck2]

I talked to my friend yesterday that has the 1018 yard hit on a PD. He used a .308 Styer with a fixed 15x target scope with fine cross hairs. Not the ideal set up, but it worked. Took him 14 shots to connect.

As for range of the AR, the other two guys had custom guns with 1-7 twist shooting 77 grains. If the wind was still down, anything under 400 yards was pretty much toast with one shot, with hits to 700 yards possible but decreasingly probable as the distance and wind increased.

[BackCountry]

The last two Friday afternoons alone I have made over 200 confirmed prairie dog kills with a 16" barrel on my ZM LR-300. Most were between 100 and 300 yards using 40 gr. Hornady V-Max hand loaded rounds. My longest shot has probably been just short of the 400 yard range. The wind would have to be very calm for me to hit anything further than that. I prefer my 16" barrel and the folding stock as it is light weight and easy to move from dog town to dog town. I have it equipped with a Millette Mil-Dot 4-16 power scope. For purposes of speed and fuel savings I now do my hunting from the back of my KTM (dirt bike). This allows me to get to more remote dog towns quickly and economically, so everything needs to be light and fold up into a pack for ease of transport. Nothing better than watching those dogs explode when hit by a fast moving V-Max bullet!

You will lose a little velocity with the shorter barrel, but prairie dogs and coyotes are small enough that you will not notice the loss. To me, the benefits of keeping my equipment light well out weigh the loss of a little velocity. My hand loaded 40 gr V-max rounds are moving at an average of just over 3300 FPS out of my 16" barrel with a 1 in 9 twist. I find with the V-Max bullet, you also get a good report back from the exploding prairie dog - if you happen to miss the carnage through the scope, you still know you got it.

Enjoy the hunting!

[sscoyote]

My Insight Shooting Systems AR Larry posted a link to earlier shoots the 65 JLK Low Drag @ 3050 mv. The BC of that bullet is around .4 and will get to 500 yds. as efficiently as about any other 223 AR load out there. Coupled with the Pride Fowler 3-9X 22 Long Rifle Rapid Reticle adapted to the trajectory of my load it's a terrific 1 shot setup to about 500 yds.

"I talked to my friend yesterday that has the 1018 yard hit on a PD. He used a .308 Styer with a fixed 15x target scope with fine cross hairs. Not the ideal set up, but it worked. Took him 14 shots to connect."

Redneck i was up in WY, couple weeks ago, and i spotted for Ray Prager out of Denver and watched him kill 2 PDs at 1045 yds. in 13 shots with his 5.6X50R CUSTOM TC Contender handgun, and the next day he got 2 with 1 shot @ 1140 with about 10 shots. I was using my 32X Kowa Highlanders, and it was as neat as it gets watching history being made as the vapor trails went right into those dogs.

Here's a link to his setup/shots-- http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f29/long-range-contender-29580/

The 2 PDs in the 1st pic on the 3rd page r the 1140's--a youngster and it's momma--probably the 2 unluckiest PDs ever.