[jims98z28]

I have a $1,000 to spend and I'm looking to either get a H&K UPSc .45 or a 1911. Keep in mind that I live in California, so some guns may not be on the approved list and the ones that are will be more expensive here.
I want a stainless gun, I just like they way they look better. The gun must be 100% reliable and pretty damn accurate (the H&K would be so they 1911 should be too). I don't want a gun that needs anything, it must be ready to go out of the box, no smithing. I rather have a new gun than used, but I would consider used. I wont be ready for this purchase for another month or so, I'm just researching my options. The gun will be a range/home defence gun. What do you suggest?

[Lofland]

Lots of good choices for you. 1911s are fine out of the box if they are models with decent sights, a beavertail safety, and GOOD MAGAZINES. They will be as comfortable to shoot as any USP. But you can customize later on with a different trigger, grip panel, or mainspring housing if you want to have a perfect fit to your hand. These parts can be switched out in a day or less at the gun shop. You simply can't customize this much with other guns that have hinged triggers, etc.

Too bad you don't like blue guns, the STI Trojan is my favorite 1911. You can get the Dawson/Jarrett Par at www.dawsonprecision.com for $1,099 if you want a double-stack gun. I shot quite a few rounds through a stainless Colt XSE Government model last month and was very impressed. The XSE is a Series 80 with a different trigger, hammer, sights (I think) and a slight beavertail grip safety so you don't have hammer bite ($700-800 on gunsamerica). People complain about the firing-pin block in the Series 80, but the trigger is still great compared to almost any non-1911. The Kimber Stainless Target II I've shot is also ready to go right out of the box, although it doesn't have three-dot sights. Both the Kimber and the Colt XSE have been totally reliable for my friend who owns them, but he only shoots FMJ. Those are the only two I have experience with.

The pistolsmiths at www.pistolsmith.com like the new-production Colt Series 70, but it doesn't have a beavertail safey. They like the Springfield Mil-Spec (no beavertail) but they have bad things to say about the quality of the Springfield Loaded models coming off the production line these days. There are some good 1911 reviews in the Gun Tests section of that site. Hope this helps.

[10-Ring]

I'd recommend the USP 1st. If you have to get a 1911, I'd get a basic Kimber.

[George Hill]

Wilson KZ-45

[XavierBreath]

Kimber
Springfield
Colt
For $1000 you can have a lot of choices. Probably the best deal out there is a Springfield Loaded. Get at least a 4 inch slide. You'll have better reliability.

[Sisco]

Lots of good ones in that price range. I partial to Kimber myself.
Search the threads at www.1911forum.com and you'll find plenty of info.

[Lofland]

If you haven't shot either a USP or a 1911 before, go to a range and rent one or both of them. That could make the decision easy. If you aren't going to conceal the gun, why get a Compact? A full-size gun will have less recoil and allow faster follow-up shots.

[jims98z28]

Thanks for the replies.

I do like blue guns, But I like stainless much better. I usually wouldn't let something like that determine a purchase, but since I have some many options I'll let it just this once. I like the looks of the Colt XSE and I like the price even better, I'll definatly have to look into that gun further. As far as renting one, thats very good advice and I plan to before I make my final decision.
Why do I want the compact? There are 2 reasons I like the H&K USPc, 1 they look awsome. I do not like the look of the full. 2 I absolutely LOVE the way that gun fits in my hand. No other gun has ever felt that good in my hand.
I wont buy a 1911 if it wont feed anything I give it. It must be able to shoot hollow points with no problems or any other ammo I choose to use. I can buy a Ruger P91 or the HK and not worry about what I feed it and I want the 1911 to be the same way, out of the box.

So why am I even thinking about a 1911 if I like the HK that much? I want to get the best gun I can get for the money and alot of people feel the 1911 is the best gun. Why else would they be so popular?

Thanks for the links and info

[10-Ring]

If you don't have 100% confidence in a gun, DON'T BUY IT! Why put so much money & trust in something that you find fault in...esp. if you have other options?

[jims98z28]

I agree, I will not buy a gun I can not depend on when in need.
I know I will be able to depend on the HK.

I don't know very much about 1911s, other than they take very well to smithing and SOME have problems with feeding.
Personally a 1911 just has a special appeal to me. Maybe its the history behind it or how American it is (can't get much more American than a Colt .45). So if I can get a 1911 will be just as dependable as the HK (without smithing) and falls into my price range, then I take it over the HK.

[George Hill]

Wilson KZ-45

[jims98z28]

George, it looks like Kali wont let me have one

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=11323437

[300lbGorilla]

CA doesn't allow the stainless version, but it does allow the Armor-Tuffed, night-sighted version.

[jims98z28]

Interesting. Whats the difference between the Cali aproved gun and the Stainless one?

They look like excellent guns and the short search I did came up with some excellent reviews. But its a little on the pricey side, not too bad but I'd like to find something I can get for under a $1000.

I'm more confused now then ever. I guess I'll make a trip to some local gun shops and check out what they have available and what they want for them. Things seem to be more expensive around here, not to mention sales tax and DROS fee.

[300lbGorilla]

Here's the list of guns "approved" in CA.

http://justice.hdcdojnet.state.ca.us/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf

The SW 1911 might also be a good choice, though, by the sound of it, you're probably going to need to do/have done a trigger job. Should have plenty of dough leftover for accessories, though. :)

BTW, this is not me endorsing the SW... I have zero experience with it. Just offering another option. ;)

I do, however, have experience with STIs... if you can find one, the STI Ca Trojan is, by far, the best choice if a classic 1911 is what you're looking for.

It would be first on my list of $1000-ish 1911s with the Wilson KZ coming in second.

[CWL]

Wilson KZ-45.

My primary defensive handgun in CA. Still legal for CA in non-stainless models (incl compact).

Combines alot of new technology with tested M1911 charachteristics. 10+1 rounds, great night sites, Wilson precision and care in manufacturing. Guaranteed 1.5" accuracy @ 25 yards (if you use Wilson's loading specs.)-and while most mortals will never shoot this well, you WILL notice marked improvement in accuracy over standard models.

Only downer is that the grip is kinda chunky, but since you own a Ruger P-series, you should be able to handle it.

To answer your question on any differences besides metal composition, there is none. lame-@ss CA laws demand that manufacturer provides 2 samples of EACH model gun they want to sell for testing purposes. Many manufacturers don't want to deal with the expenses of giving away so many versions of the same gun so they limit the models they submit for testing.

[CWatson]

New Roll Mark 1911 Colt.It is the next on my to buy list also.I will replace the strait Mainspring housing with a arched one though.CW

[Dobe]

My preference would be the Kimbers. Those that I have owned have been very reliable and accurate. Colt's quality is coming back, and SA makes a good 1911 also.

[Siggyboy]

You should try both the USP and a 1911 before shelling out the cash. Don't go by what alot of people seem to think is "the best gun" because that standard might not mean anything for YOU. The USP is a nice gun and is similar to the 1911 in many ways. However, the 1911 is still relatively unique and you should be satisfied that you are comfortable with a single-action semi-auto and cocked & locked before buying.

Some good 1911's in that price range are:
Colt 1991A1
Kimber Custom Classic
Kimber TLE
Springfield Loaded (I prefer the Kimbers though)
Almost forgot Dan Wesson Patriot, another nice 1911 in that range.

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Another vote for STI. For a gun in this price range, I've never heard anything bad about it.

Can't say that for Colt, Kimber or Springfield.

[Erich]

I have to say that I've been quite impressed with the Springfield loaded 1911s that I've handled and fired (and the one I own), and I think they are quite the value for the price range you are seeking. They have a lifetime warranty if you have any problems, too. I don't think you will, though.

I would advise spending an afternoon reading up on the various brands over at http://www.1911forum.com/forums/ Occasionally someone will post a brand-satisfaction poll, and that's often more revealing than individual complaints one hears about branded guns - I'd squeal like a stuck pig if I got a lemon, but I'm often content to be quietly satisfied when my gun works fine.

[valnar]

Of production guns (Kimber, etc.), I'd say a stainless Dan Wesson Patriot is the best out there for under $1000.

-Robert

[HarryRod]

I would have to either say go with the SW1911 or either a Dan Wesson. Both are fine pistols that are not overpriced like some other, cough,cough,kimber,cough

[Rob96]

Use $600 to buy yourself a NRM Colt 1991A1. Then use the remaining $400 for some leather and ammo.

[Gary H]

I have a $1,000 to spend and I'm looking to either get a H&K UPSc .45 or a 1911.

These are very different guns. It makes me wonder if you have shot both style guns? In my mind, I know which one I prefer and it seems to me that anyone shooting these guns would have a preference. It isn't that one is better, but rather that they function and feel different. So, I would suggest that you shoot the guns and then ask the question should you prefer the 1911. Just buy the H&K should shooting these guns point you in that direction. My 2 cents.

[Fed168]

A Springfield Loaded, SW 1911, or a Kimber. Spend the extra on mags and ammo, holsters, what have you.

[varoadking]

In that case - avoid Springfield. They are the 1911's from hell - IMHO...

[WJR]

Ditto what Rob96 said. The New Rollmark Colts are some of the best 1911s that Colt has ever made. I like Kimbers as well, but only the Series 1.

WJR

[C. H. Luke]

Have both a KZ and a 5" Trojan .40.
For CCW personal choice is the Wilson though
the STI certainly fits the bill too.......

[jims98z28]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to go with the Colt, probably the series 80. I will shoot both the HK and the Colt before I make my final decision, but for the money, its hard to beat the Colt.

Thanks again

[VG]

Arbitrary choices, or? The SIG P220, stainless or not, is accurate, reliable, needs nothing, and leaves you with $$ for ammo. A superb pistol.

If you looked into Colt's financial status and their manufacturing technology, you would pass on them. But buying an M1911 is a lifestyle choice - like buying a Harley - and thus there's a significant emotional content.

[duckfoot]

CZ97:D

[WJR]

VG Said: If you looked into Colt's financial status and their manufacturing technology, you would pass on them. But buying an M1911 is a lifestyle choice - like buying a Harley - and thus there's a significant emotional content.

This statement was more the case a few years ago. Currently, Colt is making a big comeback both financially and in their manufacturing ability. They are making very nice 1911's these days. I, for one, will not buy a different brand than Colt. I would buy more Kimbers if they had not put the Series II system into all new models.

A bigger question in my mind is why do the 1911 makers shoot themselves in the foot? As soon as they have a nice product that sells, they seem to do something to mess it all up. At least Colt is now on the right track and is making inroads to become once again the premier maker of production 1911's.

WJR